2012 Wheels Car of the Year - Page 3

flappist · 19-12-2012, 01:01 AM

This is starting to get argumentative. Keep it on topic and not personal.

Fiesta_Man69 · 19-12-2012, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maka

http://www.toyota.com.au/86/prices
http://www.caradvice.com.au/175446/t...ions-revealed/

cheers, Maka

Take a look at Carsales. They're the real world prices on these things: you can't buy a new one for near the advertised price. Heck, since the BRZ was sold out (the whole 100 of them) a couple went at auction for over $60K. Don't believe me? Ring a Toyota dealer and see what ballpark figure you're looking at for the base model 86 (driveaway): and check the waiting time while you're there.

superyob · 19-12-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Who needs 400hp nowadays when you can't drive ten feet without being snapped by a camera? I'd rather something fun to drive within the speed limits and which doesn't need it's neck rung at high speeds to give you a bit of fun.

It's been happening with motorbikes for some years now. There have been rumblings amongst the bike press that sports bikes are getting more and more unrealistic and far too narrowly focussed for the world we live in today...bikes that even when taken out on racetracks can't show their full potential, much less how they behave on the streets. One example was a hard core sports bike that couldn't even begin to come on song before the end of one long straight was reached...it was tuned for way too high a speed. What's the point of that on the road? Some have tachos that don't register until 3000rpm is reached, and make their peak power at over 10,000rpm, meaning you have to be riding it like a race bike on the street to get anything out of it.
However, they gave their bike of the year this year to the admittedly superb 200+hp Kawasaki 1400 Ninja...so they really can't help themselves when it comes to on the one hand admitting these bikes have grown beyond what is a usable street bike and yet still give it the top gong over "normal" bikes that way more people will actually buy and ride.

I was honestly surprised that the 86 won...I thought it would be some exotica that no ordinary person could possibly afford.

In 1988, I bought a new midnight blue (almost black) FJ 1200 Yamaha. With 130 horsepower, I always thought that I had a tiger by the tail whenever I rode it. I last rode it in 1993 and sold it after the birth of my first rug rat. Have not ridden a bike in almost 20 years so I can only imagine how awesomely scary a bike such as that named above would be.

Maka · 19-12-2012, 09:21 AM

Hi all,

Debating price was not the real focus of this thread, so can we now please channel that passion into providing reasons why or why not Ford should build a worthy adversary to the 86/brz. Ford is a proven market leader in this sector & can build a FWD,4WD or RWD configuration that would be considered top or close to top of its class & we know NO ONE can build a total package like Ford can!

The 86/brz's multifaceted ability to drift, rally or feel at home at any circuit then drive back home is commendable & its this versatility that makes it very attractive to potential buyers in this market sector. Go back in time & see now Fords offerings in this market sector and see why they were so popular with club racers & poseurs alike! Versatility is one ability that cant be patented!

Does the global auto market need a baby mustang to keep the Japanese offering honest?
Going by the waiting list for the Subetoya's "Capri tribute" here in Aussie at least, i'de say yes! Baby Evos -

cheers,Maka

flappist · 19-12-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Take a look at Carsales. They're the real world prices on these things: you can't buy a new one for near the advertised price. Heck, since the BRZ was sold out (the whole 100 of them) a couple went at auction for over $60K. Don't believe me? Ring a Toyota dealer and see what ballpark figure you're looking at for the base model 86 (driveaway): and check the waiting time while you're there.

Really?

One of my people just ordered a red Toyota 86 GT manual from Wide Bay Motor Group in Hervey Bay for delivery in early March at under $33k drive away.

That is 10 weeks delivery. I am sure I have read some threads on here where peoplae are waiting that long for lots of other makes and models of vehicles.

This is not just a reply to random call by a wood duck, this is a contract signed, deposit paid deal. Don't you just hate it when the truth gets in the way of a good story.......

mik · 19-12-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maka

Hi all,

Debating price was not the real focus of this thread, so can we now please channel that passion into providing reasons why or why not Ford should build a worthy adversary to the 86/brz. Ford is a proven market leader in this sector & can build a FWD,4WD or RWD configuration that would be considered top or close to top of its class & we know NO ONE can build a total package like Ford can!

The 86/brz's multifaceted ability to drift, rally or feel at home at any circuit then drive back home is commendable & its this versatility that makes it very attractive to potential buyers in this market sector. Go back in time & see now Fords offerings in this market sector and see why they were so popular with club racers & poseurs alike! Versatility is one ability that cant be patented!

Does the global auto market need a baby mustang to keep the Japanese offering honest?
Going by the waiting list for the Subetoya's "Capri tribute" here in Aussie at least, i'de say yes! Baby Evos -

cheers,Maka

Don`t know Maka, perhaps, but i reckon the horse may have bolted, between toyo and suby , they already have a pretty ideal driveline with the flat boxer engine, and mazda still has the respected mx5/miata, i`m thinking to build a challenger to those two it might be a case of diminishing returns.

Fiesta_Man69 · 19-12-2012, 10:30 AM

Great. You'll be able to put it on Carsales for $40K and make seven grand in a day.... Lol.

Nikked · 19-12-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

Don`t know Maka, perhaps, but i reckon the horse may have bolted, between toyo and suby , they already have a pretty ideal driveline with the flat boxer engine, and mazda still has the respected mx5/miata, i`m thinking to build a challenger to those two it might be a case of diminishing returns.

Mazda have a New RX-7 in 2017...based on the next MX-5 platform...

Ford and Nissan's turn!

Nissan develops sturdy RWD platform akin to the S-chassis, and sells a Silvia off it, ford plonks its own body on it and calls it Escort/Capri, complete with EB4...

win win.

irish2 · 19-12-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Great. You'll be able to put it on Carsales for $40K and make seven grand in a day.... Lol.

Or he could take it to a track and get owned by an Ecoboost falcon.

Nikked · 19-12-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

Or he could take it to a track and get owned by an Ecoboost falcon.

Yes, because a Ecoboost falcon is commonly seen at track days...except perhaps as a tow car

Bossxr8 · 19-12-2012, 09:33 PM

If Nissan make a Silvia it will absolutely wallop the 86, cause they will actually put an engine in it thats better than the barely more torque than a rubber band 86.

Wheels COTY hasn't been relevant for years now, no one cares anymore. Remember how much hype used to surround the award, it was always in the papers and on the news, now you don't hear anything about it anymore. Same would apply if a Ford or Holden had won it, no one's really interested.

irish2 · 19-12-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yes, because a Ecoboost falcon is commonly seen at track days...except perhaps as a tow car

Except for the fact an Ecoboost G6 beat the BRZ and GT86 at a recent motor test.

Nikked · 19-12-2012, 09:39 PM

......

Nikked · 19-12-2012, 09:40 PM

Hasn't been relevent since 2005 eh...

People obviously care, as there is discussion about...how its the wrong car...how its irrelevent because blah blah...

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

Except for the fact an Ecoboost G6 beat the BRZ and GT86 at a recent motor test.

Oh so thats relevent, but COTY isn't?

Hmmm...

irish2 · 19-12-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Hasn't been relevent since 2005 eh...

People obviously care, as there is discussion about...how its the wrong car...how its irrelevent because blah blah...

Oh so thats relevent, but COTY isn't?

Hmmm...

How is it not relevant? The car is designed to be light with low center of gravity, a great track weapon. Only to be beaten by a dowdy standard 4 cylinder falcon, and not just in a straight line, through twisties as well.

Fiesta_Man69 · 19-12-2012, 10:49 PM

Exactly.

Nikked · 19-12-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

How is it not relevant? The car is designed to be light with low center of gravity, a great track weapon. Only to be beaten by a dowdy standard 4 cylinder falcon, and not just in a straight line, through twisties as well.

So...the falcon wins a race and its relevent...and thr 86 wins an award thats deemed mot to be relevant...by sister publications...

Yes, the ecoboost falcon is quick, yes the 86 is slow...to a point...but a veyron is even faster...perhaps it should win?

Funny how people whine about 200nm...

Same old trolls....

UberKnee · 20-12-2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

How about a BRZ does everything a v12 vantage does, but at a fraction of a price?

2 sides to every coin.

Mind you, Aston's are right up there on my "win lotto, fill garage" list.

It does the same generally things, just in alot less style, space, sophistication, power, prestige.

The BRZ does it cheaper, much cheaper but that's just factoring in price, which is always annoyingly the most important factor in these.

Maka · 20-12-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

How is it not relevant? The car is designed to be light with low center of gravity, a great track weapon. Only to be beaten by a dowdy standard 4 cylinder falcon, and not just in a straight line, through twisties as well.

The state of tune of the SubeToya is a direct consequence of its rrp & you know it. Now please tell us why or why not Ford should build a 86/ brz competitor?

cheers, Maka

mike_nofx · 20-12-2012, 12:59 PM

How can an Ecoboost Falcon even be compared to an 86/BRZ?
They are totally different cars!

The Ecoboost is quicker around the track, therefore it's better than the 86/BRZ. Think about how silly that sounds.

By that logic, any car quicker around a track than an Ecoboost Falcon is therefore a better car. Or since its marketed as an "Eco friendly economical car" any car more Eco friendly or more economical is therefore a better car?

Who determines how good a car is? How about the people who actually lay down the cash and buy a new car... They've looked around and decided that the car they bought was the best for that amount of money (or even more money) so bought it.

Not wheels magazine, and not anonymous people on an Internet forum.

Obviously not many people consider an EB Falcon good enough (or best for the money) to actually buy one. How many have you seen on the road?

FFS Toyota just bring out the inevitable turbo model already to silence the "86 is slow" crowd!

irish2 · 20-12-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

How can an Ecoboost Falcon even be compared to an 86/BRZ?
They are totally different cars!

The Ecoboost is quicker around the track, therefore it's better than the 86/BRZ. Think about how silly that sounds.

By that logic, any car quicker around a track than an Ecoboost Falcon is therefore a better car. Or since its marketed as an "Eco friendly economical car" any car more Eco friendly or more economical is therefore a better car?

Who determines how good a car is? How about the people who actually lay down the cash and buy a new car... They've looked around and decided that the car they bought was the best for that amount of money (or even more money) so bought it.

Not wheels magazine, and not anonymous people on an Internet forum.

Obviously not many people consider an EB Falcon good enough (or best for the money) to actually buy one. How many have you seen on the road?

FFS Toyota just bring out the inevitable turbo model already to silence the "86 is slow" crowd!

I never said the 86 wasn't deserving of the win. If you have a look at the first 86 thread on the forum I praised the idea. That was until a G6 Ecoboost held higher mid corner speeds than it on what is a fairly tight track. So in essence a car that is set up for handling prowess, (forget about outright power) is beaten by a softly set up family sedan.

irish2 · 20-12-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maka

The state of tune of the SubeToya is a direct consequence of its rrp & you know it. Now please tell us why or why not Ford should build a 86/ brz competitor?

cheers, Maka

I think Ford already has hot hatches that whilst more expensive, are also quicker. Is there really that much demand world wide for such a vehicle? The waiting list in Australia might be lengthy but that is due to restricted supply rather than a massive demand. If there was going to be continued demand Toyota/Subaru would ramp up production. Ford only planned to sell 30,000 Mustangs in its first year but still managed to pump out just shy of 600,000 by the time the '66 was released.

mcnews · 20-12-2012, 05:02 PM

The Fords are not RWD...

irish2 · 20-12-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The Fords are not RWD...

No they are not. Does the drive line configuration matter if it is quicker?

Fiesta_Man69 · 20-12-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

I think Ford already has hot hatches that whilst more expensive, are also quicker. Is there really that much demand world wide for such a vehicle? The waiting list in Australia might be lengthy but that is due to restricted supply rather than a massive demand. If there was going to be continued demand Toyota/Subaru would ramp up production. Ford only planned to sell 30,000 Mustangs in its first year but still managed to pump out just shy of 600,000 by the time the '66 was released.

If Ford produced the Falcon or the Focus in the same limited numbers as the 86 there would be waiting lists for years too. It's all relative.

It should be noted that in England the 86 is being sold for £25K (which explains why you can't buy one for under $40K out here, despite "my mates bought one cheaper" claims of others...) where the Focus ST can be had for £21K, Megane £26K, WRX STI £27K, 370Z £29K and Golf GTI from £21K... puts the car in perspective...

mcnews · 20-12-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

No they are not. Does the drive line configuration matter if it is quicker?

Absolutely, if it lapped Saturn in record time and was FWD I would still not be interested.

Fiesta_Man69 · 20-12-2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Absolutely, if it lapped Saturn in record time and was FWD I would still not be interested.

So you would take a rwd Gemini over a fwd Focus RS? Fair enough.

mcnews · 20-12-2012, 05:30 PM

Now that's just being silly. Focus RS I am sure is awesome, although all the ones I have seen have terrible orange peel flaws in their paintwork. And the Focus ST is a great car, roomier in the front than a Falcon and a fair bit of shove from that five-cylinder donk back when I drove one. But they are not for me, as front wheel drive cars hold no interest 'for me'. No need to ruin this thread in to a FWD v RWD thread, we all have our preferences.

Nikked · 20-12-2012, 05:36 PM

oh dear...

MITCHAY · 20-12-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

If Ford produced the Falcon or the Focus in the same limited numbers as the 86 there would be waiting lists for years too. It's all relative.

It should be noted that in England the 86 is being sold for £25K (which explains why you can't buy one for under $40K out here, despite "my mates bought one cheaper" claims of others...) where the Focus ST can be had for £21K, Megane £26K, WRX STI £27K, 370Z £29K and Golf GTI from £21K... puts the car in perspective...

Lol no it doesn't. England is not Australia. You can go to Toyota and pay retail and wait or pay whatever price a private seller puts on it.

It's about $34k drive away base spec. A WRX is over $40k drive away, same with Focus ST, Megane is more, 370Z way more here, Golf GTi still more

So it is a minimum difference of $6-7k or so which is to a lot of money to people not mentioning running costs. I think that is a more realistic perspective.