Has Ford Simply got it Wrong?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Last month, Ford had XR6T sedan and Ute on sale for incredibly low prices,
I'll be interested to see if that did anything art all for Falcon sales...

I chatted with my local dealer last month too. If I wasn't doing my building work at present I would've bought one. The price was sharp. But, without knowing exactly how much money I will or won't have until I finish building, i'm finding it hard to commit. But, damn I want my first new car to be a Falcon! Love them. Australian made and a terrific product.

http://www.ford.com.au/latest-offers/nsw-act-regional

Ford website driveaway price as follows:

* $35,490 XR6T Ute
* $30,490 XR6 Ute
* $39,490 XR6T Sedan
* $33,990 XR6 Sedan

Those prices applied to 2013 model manuals and were priced for Melbourne and also Newcastle.

So, yeah i'm also hoping that there was a rise in Falcon sales last month with many of them XR6Turbo models. BossXR8 was saying he has been building heaps of turbo engines for a little while now.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yeah, and how do you suppose they do that? No company can or will tell their customers what they need to buy. Are you serious???

Absolute rubbish. Clever marketing and committed focused sales can do that. It has in the past and it will in the future.

Whist its probably to late for my beloved Falcon. (i do hope im wrong) Success for any product comes from its points of difference, not what it does the same.

A Falcon is big and fast and runs like the wind. But Ford refuse to publish 0~100 times, pictures of tall people in the back of the car. World class NVH and HVAC systems. It's light and easy to drive. It's has good fuel efficiency and unlike its competitors it achieves it published fuel economy figures.

All of which are a well kept secret. Wrapped in a blanket of below par audio, or switches that don't light up. Supported by myths perpetuated by a biased press, or at least some members of it.

Back on topic. I think it's obvious that Ford is in good shape and has a lot of things right. At this juncture falcon and territory aren't part of it.

[Franco Cozzo]

At the end of the day, maybe we might lose Falcon and Territory, but gain Taurus and Explorer, look how many new cars Ford has going at the moment:

- New Ranger
- New Focus
- New Kuga
- ST Fiesta around the corner
- New RS Focus in development

New Mondeo is also due next year, if we lost Territory and Falcon, would it be such a huge loss?

Territory diesel is much more important to Ford than Falcon I reckon, but one cant exist without the other unfortunately.

If Ford wants to save money, the first thing they should do is cut all funding for V8 super cars and use it elsewhere, somewhere more important.

[Polyal]

Damo your missing the main point. Jobs. Keeping aussie mnufacturing jobs, I find it hard to believe this would be possible with any other combo than the falcon and tez. Set up costs for new lines would be huge, and then what would we make that others dont?

Its what we do, Ford need to commit because when things get tough you have two options. Cut your costs which you can only do so far or increase your sales. The latter is extremely hard when you have cash flow issues.

I also think bar pulling out all together they have reigned in racing expenditure.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Damo your missing the main point. Jobs. Keeping aussie mnufacturing jobs, I find it hard to blieve this would be possible with ny other combo than the falcon and tez. Its what we do, Ford need to commit because when things get tough you have two options. Cut your costs which you can only do far or increase your sales. The latter is extremely hard when you have cash flow issues.

I also think bar pulling out all together they have reigned in racing expenditure.

Maybe Ford is finished in Australia for manufacturing? How else can they keep jobs here, as the way everyone is speculating and looking at figures it doesn't look too fantastic for the boys at Broadmeadows and Geelong.

They might be joining Mitsubishi and Nissan.

Ford themselves also share part of the blame by not following the tastes of consumers when it comes to local manufacturing.

A manager at work mentioned to us he's been trained in the "LEAN" manufacturing system ("Toyota Production System") and how its so great etc that all the big manufacturers use it.

One of the guys raised the question, if its so fantastic then why are they all so far up the ****? You can blame unions, etc but management are the captains of the ship.

I don't know, I'm just spurting out the crap that is floating in my head.

None of us know Ford's plan, only Ford does.

I work in the manufacturing industry in Victoria, we've got serious cash flow issues, theres 20+ ambulances sitting here waiting to be built and all our accounts are on stop. We're so far behind, we've lost people and we make a **** product. The boys on the floor are speculating if we'll make it to the end of 2014.

The last ambulance fire in the news was caused by us, we copped it big time from Ambulance Victoria, because they got bent over by the media and the government started asking questions.

The only thing keeping us in business is the competition isn't much better, at the end of the day in our case, they've shipped production of the furniture inside the ambulance to China, how long before the van swings by China to be fitted out, then sent to Melbourne and checked over by a small QA team and out it goes?

The manufacturing ship is sinking and we're going down with it, everyone is to blame from the consumer, to unions, to the worker, to management and finally to government.

[mik]

I would certainly have a new henry/falcon sitting in the driveway if cash permitted, personally i think the falcon is right, to be honest i could happily drive a fg xt(even though I`m a wannabe GT man, always have been), probably as a base model it has more gear in it than my $45,000 optioned up au2 xr6,
and the XT goes like a rocket with any engine it comes with, be it ECO LPI, ECO BOOST, UNLEADED 6.
to those talking style.....style is a subjective thing......funky is not for every one , however, for those on a budget.......cheap is.

[Polyal]

Everyone is to blame? This rubbish about being patriotic is exactly that. Good products can almost sell themselves if priced, specced and communicted correctly, heck even crap products get away with selling based on good communiction alone.

I think we will find that Ford itself is still at a loss as to what path to take. Which to be honest isnt really good enough, it shouldnt matter what gov is in control your product should have a plan that is robust.

People here sprout that Ford should have no pressure to release info on future plans, well thats also BS. Ask Geelong what they think about that. No one wants intricate detail, but its actually their silence that is making matters worse and actually creating further bad press. As much as I dislike how the issue has been treated by local media what else do you want them to report on? Give them something, even if it doesnt come to fruition, atleast it takes the spot light off the current trend and the press perhaps wouldnt be so critical.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Everyone is to blame? This rubbish about being patriotic is exactly that. Good products can almost sell themselves if priced, specced and communicted correctly, heck even crap products get away with selling based on good communiction alone.

I think we will find that Ford itself is still at a loss as to what path to take. Which to be honest isnt really good enough, it shouldnt matter what gov is in control your product should have a plan that is robust.

People here sprout that Ford should have no pressure to release info on future plans, well thats also BS. Ask Geelong what they think about that. No one wants intricate detail, but its actually their silence that is making matters worse and actually creating further bad press. As much as I dislike how the issue has been treated by local media what else do you want them to report on? Give them something, even if it doesnt come to fruition, atleast it takes the spot light off the current trend and the press perhaps wouldnt be so critical.

You could probably advertise the Falcon for $5 and it would still struggle to sell over 1000, it has a bad reputation based on brand and name alone, and its in a segment popular in the past. Ford has also burnt many customers in the past and done produced some dodgy crap.

I have a workmate who used to work at Broadmeadows in product engineering and development from the mid 1980s until 2008, he can tell you some good stories about cost cutting gone wrong and removing features.

Strip down a new Territory, as in remove everything and have a look at sharp edges and some sealant crap around the joins splattered all throughout the car on the inside.

The FG itself isn't a bad car, just some poor design and cheap materials but not as bad as BA/F.

The VE Commodore is bad too, ever tried removing trims on a new one without breaking them? The clip is actually stronger than the trims, even when using trim removal tools you can break them without much force.

The end of the day, Ford Australia isn't making what the Australian customer wants.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Strip down a new Territory, as in remove everything and have a look at sharp edges and some sealant crap around the joins splattered all throughout the car on the inside.

Seems to be a common thing in all Aussie built fords and holdens. Sharp edges, unpainted metal, scrapes, scribbles, overspray, missing screws, all under the surface of brand new cars. Might show a lack of pride in workmanship, but this also gives the car character and uniqueness, which could be a good thing, considering something handmade is usually worth more than a perfectly built item that came out of a machine (like Japanese cars).

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Seems to be a common thing in all Aussie built fords and holdens. Sharp edges, unpainted metal, scrapes, scribbles, overspray, missing screws, all under the surface of brand new cars. Might show a lack of pride in workmanship, but this also gives the car character and uniqueness, which could be a good thing, considering something handmade is usually worth more than a perfectly built item that came out of a machine (like Japanese cars).

Its a pain in the *** when you're running wires through it and for some reason you're blowing fuses or trying to get your hand behind where the seat belt pre-tensioner is to pull wires through and you cut your fingers/hand open.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a pain in the *** when you're running wires through it and for some reason you're blowing fuses or trying to get your hand behind where the seat belt pre-tensioner is to pull wires through and you cut your fingers/hand open.

I see those cuts and bruises as love bites from the car that stick with you for life long after the car is gone.

[Crazy Dazz]

Why do the same people always insist in derailing every thread into the same old arguments?

So let me give you some tips on what this thread is NOT about:
• Your Hyundai is top quality but “your mate’s Falcon build quality is rubbish.”
• The Americans/ Japanese/ Germans/ etc just hate Australia.
• “The Government” should have done More (or Less) to help the Australian Auto industry.
• You and all your mates would all buy two Mustangs each if Ford sold them here.
• You think that Ford Australia should not be concerned about sales of the number one selling Australian car of all time, but should instead concentrate on Rangers (or Mustangs.)
• Whether or Not Ford Australia Could, Would, or Should be building Focus, Mondeo, Ranger, Mustang, or anything else.
• ANYTHING in any way related to towing your bleedin Caravan.
• You hate Falcons, and Fords, and your life, and just joined this forum so you could whinge and moan.
• Whether you think a V8 or turbo 6 is “better.”
• You think that if everybody in this forum just went out and bought a Falcon and a Territory, the problem would be solved.
• That people “just aren’t buying ‘large cars’ anymore.”

All of the above can be debated ad nausea in the appropriate threads.
My question simply is whether Ford Australia has taken the wrong direction in terms of developing/ styling/ configuring/ targeting/ marketing the Falcon, and inter alia the Territory.
And as a corollary, whether any conceivably possible export market could be enhanced or hindered by such direction?
Disagree, that's fine, but try to stick to the point.
If you believe Falcon is dead and buried, that's fine, but the question is whether it could have died slower?
If you want to talk about the future direction of these cars, have at it.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s basic marketing 101. To carve out a market share you either need to offer an (attractive) point of difference, or you need to be able to improve upon what the market is currently consuming. The Falcon will never compete with Camrys & Hyundais etc when it comes to price, economy, and “reliability.” Hence the need to have points(s) of difference.

It's true, but it's lacking one important component. It can't just be a point of difference, it has to be a point of difference that's high on people's values or priorities. If the point of difference is that the car has a carburetor and a 3 speed transmission, it will have major differences but it won't sell. Marketing isn't about trying to convince people why your differences are better (it was 100 years ago), it's now about finding out what people truly want and making your product to suit the needs of the consumer. There's a reason Ford now offers more color choices than black.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Why do the same people always insist in derailing every thread into the same old arguments?
So let me give you some tips on what this thread is NOT about:.....

Dazz, I think all these other issues get discussed in the thread here because
they do play a part in the story of the Falcon and Territory to date. There
is a lot more in the game here, apart from styling and marketing.

However, I'll offer some comment directly to the points you have raised, with
a bit of back-tracking.

The styling blunder of the AU was a disaster. Ford got that one wrong and
sales reflected that situation.

Post AU, the BA was brought forward in the development cycle, toned down
in design and then promptly became a big seller, #2 in 2003 with about
75,000 sales. Ford got it right.

Come time for the FG design, Ford were likely continuing the with the
somewhat conservative card as it worked for them before. However, a
change in market trends, among other factors, saw a huge decline in large
sedan sales. Try as they did, sales numbers says they got it wrong. But
then, no manufacturer is experiencing high sales of large sedans here in Aus.
The customers are looking elsewhere and the market is more fragmented now.

I do not think that a different design or marketing technique would have
allayed this trend. Personally, I quite like the funky sort of styling of the
current small cars but think it looks wierd when translated the large
sedans (eg. Hyundai i40)... But that is just me and others would like it.
In terms of marketing, flashy ads may have had little impact because
customers have already decided on a different class of vehicle altogether.
Export? .... Ford would like a big profit. Consider what Aussies are paid
compared to Thai or Chinese workers. The numbers don't stack up.

Now, I digress a little from your topic Dazz but I see it as relevant to
the discussion....

Globally, I think Ford has got it right. They have 3 models in the top 10
sales figures in the world. I believe they made it through the GFC without
the major gov. investment that GM had. As a business, it looks like they
know what they are doing.

Despite our attachment to the Falcon, Ford will get rid of dead weight and
non-profit. It is my guess that the decision to cut the Falcon and Territory
was made about 2 years ago (maybe even longer ago) by Ford US and they
are already well along in their next set of plans, whatever they may be.
My guess is Ford have got it right.

I believe the Australian Gov. (and the depth of their pockets) is the
deciding factor for the future of local manufacturing, not Ford AU, not
Ford US. What will the gov do? What is right or wrong in this instance?
........ Now that is cause for speculation!

[mash again]

Ford killed themselves off to a degree where i live when they refused to let the new owner of the them ford dealer building use it for ford because they were primarily a toyota dealer. would not let them have the ford franchise in the same building, then franchise closes in the next town. now a 2 hr drive to the nearest dealer, oh sorry we cant do that transfer case on your ranger, we arent gearbox specialists, you need to go to adelaide. So a 4 hr trip maybe towing your car on a trailer if it breaks down under warranty etc. or you could buy a new, holden, toyota, nissan, hyundia, a jeep for christs sake and get the work done local. We had ford here all my life, 2 dealers when i was a child and the population is the same. I now have a Prado for the wife and i still ahve my XR8 ute, but if i was buying new?? Wonder how common this is throughout the country.

[ryeman]

Losing dealerships is THE killer.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a pain in the *** when you're running wires through it and for some reason you're blowing fuses or trying to get your hand behind where the seat belt pre-tensioner is to pull wires through and you cut your fingers/hand open.

much better to run convoluted tubing if possible, saves a lot of headaches.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Has Ford simply got it wrong?

Is that a rhetorical question?

[duaned]

It's funny that (in my line of work) I get to talk to a lot of people and, when the topic comes up in relation to vehicles, as soon as I mention Ford the bulk of replies are that aussie falcons are un-reliable, built like crap and so on. Most of these people have owned Fords and now have Mazdas, Hyundai's etc. This in itself is nothing new and in no doubt has reflected in the loss of sales for Ford Australia for example. What surprised me in most part is these people like the look of the Falcon, have no problem with it's size, design etc. but are no longer interested in the Ford product based on a mechanical and build quality / trim quality factor. And I tend to agree. I love my FG, it has been great. I push Ford as a company to many as possible, but when the force is pulling me away to better built options away from Ford then I guess I am simply following the others in the herd of sheep. And that IS Ford's fault!

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Elks

Absolute rubbish. Clever marketing and committed focused sales can do that. It has in the past and it will in the future.

Well go on then Elks, Tell us what would be your business model in restoring Falcon sales.

Im waiting...............

[Hawkeye84]

Guys, there are alot of internal and external factors that have contributed to the demise of the falcon. Product/Technology/quality, price, marketing, local,/global investment or funding, poor services, dealerships, one ford, trade barriers, market demand, high dollar, carbon tax, competition, government support, etc, etc,.You can argue to till the cows come home and you really cant pin it to one factor (alot of people seem to blame the marketing department for not advertising enough/properly, some even blame and snap at Sinead Philips for issues, even though shes purely in PR).

Now im not sure what Fords position is, but feel there seems to be too much focus on the Falcon (as on this forum). If it were me, years ago, i would have poured my focus, development and invested in the Territory (as it was a booming segment) and then develop the falcon on the side - not the other way around. And you know what, the thing that i just said has probably been discussed by the guys at Ford (as other ideas that Ford Forumers bring on the table), Ford AUS are not stupid, im pretty sure they know and are aware of everything, theyre just trying to work as efficently as they can with one hand tied around their back. But, im merely speculating......I dont know.......... None of us know.

But here is what i do know.

In terms of marketing/advertising and the Falcon.
Fords' marketing team.............are in the right!

If i (and this would apply to ANY global or local company im working for)actively knew that

a) a particular product or segment in the market is shrinking.
b) Sales forecast declining
c) Demand is falling
d) All signs, data, trends and reports were telling me that i would be flogging a dead horse

and decided to spend a significant amount of my marketing dollars on advertising and/or other marketing activities on this product - neglecting and failing in efficiently utilising my budget on booming products or growth markets (which would be a no brainer on generating return on investment)............I WOULD BE FIRED

And in an interview, if i were to tell a potential employer what i had done in my previous role........I WOULD NOT BE HIRED

[FNQracing]

Ford's problem with the Falcon started a long time ago. Lets recap:

1. In the 80's, Falcon's were crap in terms of reliability and build quality. The imports were way ahead.
2. We started to grow up in the 90's, and for the first half at least, Falcons were way behind the 8-ball. They looked ok, but reliability and quality still lagged.
3. Mid 90's Ford thought its finally time to get their act together, released the EF which looked freaking fantastic, but was let down with a poor engine and the NVH of a truck.
4. Late 90's early 00's saw the AU - butt ugly and old tech when everything else was light years ahead.
5. Mid 00's we get the BA. Finally, Falcon is in the game with decent tech, but let down by boring looks. Questionable quality still remained.
6. Late 00's, Ford release the FG, a first class car in nearly every respect (finally!), except maybe a little bland in the styling.
7. We are now well into the the 10's. Holy crap, it too late!

I think Ford were just too lazy and slow to adapt to a market that was demanding more style, quality and tech.

During this time, Falcon cemented its reputation as being a 2nd rate car, but rugged, with poor resale and so-so reliability. Damage done.

Lets face it, Falcon was a pretty mediocre product (when compared to imports) right up until the FG.

Understandably, the market has reacted. I don't blame Joe Public, I blame Ford Oz for handing the market a 2nd rate car, and relying too heavily on fleet sales and market protection rather than doing their best.

Edit: I might add, Commodore was not much better, but they were great with marketing and image (and design). They will suffer the same fate, might just take a few years longer to die.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

None of us know Ford's plan, only Ford does.

Quoted for truth.


Everyone forgets this.


Fact.

The falcon is an update confirmed in 2014...Ford have not, have not, called the end yet.


Later this year we'll see the Shock and Awe promised by ford.


Falcon, go further.

[tranquilized]

Ok well I'll attempt to bring the thread back on topic as I don't think the last two pages have had anything to do with the op...

Crazy Dazz I agree with you, and myself and a few others have said basically the same thing in other threads in the past when discussing things like the ecoboost Falcon.

Why try to appeal to the fleet market where the margins are the slimmest, and they've all moved onto smaller cars now anyway?

Why not try to appeal to the luxury performance end of the market, where margins are a lot bigger, and the next competitor is from Germany and costs 6 figures?

We know the first strategy has failed miserably. The second strategy wouldn't have saved the Falcon, but it might have helped provide a longer, more dignified path to death.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

It's hard for Ford to make ground with Falcon when less people are shopping for large sedans. That's why I don't think further differentiating the product from its competition is going to do much for sales momentum at this stage in the game. A few people will hold hope for the 2014 update to re-energise sales, just like FG was supposed to do, just like EcoLPI was supposed to do and just like EcoBoost was supposed to do. No matter how good Ford make the product, they're going to suffer with a shrinking market.

The 2014 Falcon ad campaign (if it gets one) will give them the opportunity to properly advertise the Eco models.

being the best Falcon made yet... that will be icing on the cake.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Last month, Ford had XR6T sedan and Ute on sale for incredibly low prices,
I'll be interested to see if that did anything art all for Falcon sales...

I don't think it would have done much to overall sales considering we have down days coming up, but i've been absolutely pumped in turbo builds the whole month of April. Its only just died off in the last few days and gone back to normal.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Ok well I'll attempt to bring the thread back on topic as I don't think the last two pages have had anything to do with the op...

Crazy Dazz I agree with you, and myself and a few others have said basically the same thing in other threads in the past when discussing things like the ecoboost Falcon.

Why try to appeal to the fleet market where the margins are the slimmest, and they've all moved onto smaller cars now anyway?

Why not try to appeal to the luxury performance end of the market, where margins are a lot bigger, and the next competitor is from Germany and costs 6 figures?

We know the first strategy has failed miserably. The second strategy wouldn't have saved the Falcon, but it might have helped provide a longer, more dignified path to death.

2 Pages irrelevant pointing out on the most part why they aren't selling and what they could do to possibly turn things around , and the solution is , wait for it , build a sports/luxury at a premium price just like a FPV ?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by GREGL

2 Pages irrelevant pointing out on the most part why they aren't selling and what they could do to possibly turn things around , and the solution is , wait for it , build a sports/luxury at a premium price just like a FPV ?

I didn't say the reasons given were wrong, there are lots of reasons the Falcon doesn't sell.

I didn't offer a solution - I made that perfectly clear in my post.

What I was suggesting was FPV taken up a few notches.

[dallasv8]

i see on the ford website the xr6 and xr6t sedans and utes on the latest offers page come with 5 year 200 000km warranty.
that is something that probably should be advertised a bit.

[FTE-063]

Whait until bathurst if mercedes wins the race. Watch n see ford do. Race on sunday sell on monday just look at the amg range best looking cars & they have the show & go to match. I'm thinking about buying a '04-'06 w211 amg.i won't be buying another ford if i can't help it