Could Kevin Rudd/Kim Carr pursuade Ford to reverse shut down decision?

[danzvtil]

Didnt the Green Vehicle Fund pay for the ecoboost to be engineered into the falcon? At the end of the day someone has to buy the bloody thing but theyre not.
Ecoboost falcon is a lovely car to drive, but does nothing different to the squillions of other 4 cyl cars on the market today, and my neighbours wont be impressed to see a falc in my driveway either, they have become a pragmatic purchase instead of an aspirational one.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

I didnt know they built fire engines in Victoria but here in Brisbane they build Mack and Volvo trucks

SEM have struggled for the last few years and were taken over by Varley, a NSW company in 2011. It goes without saying that Varley also make Fire Engines, Ambulances, Police and Defence vehicles, etc. in NSW. http://www.varleygroup.com/templates/varley_specialised_vehicles.aspx?edit=false&pageID =3535

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Cam

Not much different to the car industry in the UK, whom not that long ago used to have a massive car manufacturing industry. These days. It's all but non existent.

All we can do is sit back and watch the inevitable unfold..

Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Opel, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mini, Land Rover, MG, Lotus and more all have factories in the UK.

Hardly "non-existent"!

[DMENTDGT]

A bit off topic but did Ford AU ever think of exporting the FPV's to the states, they love performance cars there big time. You get family/performance car in one...

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by dallasv8

considering Rudd has already canned the proposal to tighten laws for 457 visa workers...i highly doubt australian manufacturing will be on his help list.

This improves australian manufacturing by lowering hiring costs by increasing the competition pool in selected high demand fields.

Originally Posted by WPR1

I doubt it Rudd, Gillard and the whole Labor lot are a laughing stock I would be surprised if any Company would take them seriously. With their track record who knows how long Rudd will be around for.

Substantiate your claim with facts, please?

Originally Posted by Brazen

Actually it is the opposite, in the 90s the UK was building around 900,000 a year, but thanks to Goverment policy and government co investment they built 1.9 million last year. The UK auto industry is now booming thanks to smart Government policy. It's an example for Australia.

The UK are also a major player in the motorsports scene. McLaren, ProDrive, RBR, and a number of other big players are stationed out there. Aston Martin racing, Jaguar, so on.

Originally Posted by Buntz

Hopefully Kev means business. But perhaps instead of raising tariffs, local cars could get tax breaks, reducing their cost.

Lowering the Aussie dollar is probably on the list, as well as pushing local business and markets. I doubt ford will reverse their decision, but Labor will certainly push the necessity for local manufacturing if recent announcements are to be believed. There'll be a new policy platform coming out in the next few days, so, wait for those I would assume.

The Liberals have been known to support big businesses - at the top end. Cheaper labour costs, tax breaks, so on. But none of these policies work as well as a subsidy and government handout to keep local industry in practice. Case in point, Telsa motors in the US, as well as the great auto bailouts of 2008. UK auto market going through a current resurgence seeing very strong products from Aston, Jag and also the resurrection of TVR, in addition to Caterham products continuing to do well, and Lotus slowly clawing back market with the new Exige S.

Anyhow, political debate aside - it's possible, because the loss of jobs and a key local manufacturer will cause huge ripples around that sector. Parts, support, so on will mean more than just Ford jobs lost - I can see some form of bailout happening, but it will be a matter of waiting on the policies to be announced to draw a more educated conclusion.

.02c

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

I didnt know they built fire engines in Victoria
but here in Brisbane they build Mack and Volvo trucks
surely between the Brisbane plant and the one in Victoria
we could have all Australian fire trucks
not all fire trucks are the Eagle brand from the US
we also have Scania fire engines here
but I dont know who makes the bodies for them
also commonwealth,state governments and local councils
should be forced to buy local that would give the economy
a big boost we see XR6 and Commodore cop cars thats fine
but there seems to be a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio of Aus cars to imports
and that is not fair whats wrong with Falcon or Commy utes with paddy wagon bodies and not Hiluxes and why Landcruisers
and not Territorys for around town
out in the desert regions OK
yes I realise the Terry has its limits
but around town which is where 90% of the population live
just some thoughts
thanks John

SEM Fire and Rescue in Ballarat fit out Victorian fire trucks.

[Resurrection]

No hope in hell of Australian politicians getting Dearborn to reverse the decision.

[IDT]

I am one of those who think tax payers dollars can be much better spent elsewhere. Its all good and well to want to prop up a foreign owned industry that couldn't be located further away from foreign markets (except NZ) and enforces internal trade restrictions. Australia needs massive investment into a national rail network. We only have one real road that connects the Eastern and Western states. All of our airports are bulging at the seams. I say screw investing in Ford, GM and Toyota. Use the same money to build a massive industrial R&D training and manufacturing hubs in each State and start training those who will build the inevitable infrastructure our country needs.

[Happyone]

Originally Posted by IDT

I am one of those who think tax payers dollars can be much better spent elsewhere. Its all good and well to want to prop up a foreign owned industry that couldn't be located further away from foreign markets (except NZ) and enforces internal trade restrictions. Australia needs massive investment into a national rail network. We only have one real road that connects the Eastern and Western states. All of our airports are bulging at the seams. I say screw investing in Ford, GM and Toyota. Use the same money to build a massive industrial R&D training and manufacturing hubs in each State and start training those who will build the inevitable infrastructure our country needs.

That's not a bad idea !!

[KIWI-1]

To extend IDT's thoughts just a little bit...
What is it that justifies that Governments should plough $Billions into the Falcon, but nothing into:
SPC
SEM
CMI
etc.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Vormund

I doubt much of anything will happen to change Ford's mind.

However it was reassuring for Kev to once again say that he wants this country to be able to build things.

My plan would be to raise tariffs again, but have lower tariffs on imported cars for manufacturers that do build here. So for example, Holden and Toyota get reduced tariffs on car imported here because they also build here.

Full importer brands get slapped with maximum tariffs. Perhaps a middle ground on reduced tariffs for cars that are build here from CKD.

We can fudge figures ,play with numbers all we like,fact is wether its imported or made local, people are more savvy with what little money they have
Cars are so darn cheap now compared to recent years, dealers are nearly cutting limbs of to get them outta the lot, and they still have yards full of stock
Increase one player , decrease another wont make instant decisions
Those who cant afford a newie will keep buying those few grand clunkers , running in the ground , then buying another
Stopping aussie industries from failing , its a big avalanche that even if little kevvie stood in front of , itll run straight over him

Itll take some serious broom sweeping to stop the influx of imports and with all the little kick backs goin on ,itll take a decent leader with a decent party that can stand up for the country to even consider a change
Wont say it cant happen, but for it to happen the general public will be in uproar , if they only have 1 or 2 choices in every purchase

[KIWI-1]

...another one for Kev to fix!!!

Packaging firm Detmold to shed 43 jobs
Packaging company Detmold has confirmed 43 jobs will be cut from its Adelaide operations.
There will be a loss of 26 jobs from paper conversion and 17 other roles at its Brompton manufacturing plant.
The Manufacturing Workers Union is taking the matter to the Fair Work Commission.
Union official John Camillo said he was keen to learn more about a plan to move work offshore.
"We want to get to the bottom in regards to how many jobs are going to be lost, what part of the operation is going to be sent to Indonesia, so therefore (on Friday morning) we'll be sitting down hopefully with the Fair Work Commissioner, helping us out in regards to getting all this information," he said.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by chevypower

More tax-payer handouts? All that does is keep the life support machine on a little longer. Revamp the whole tax system to incentivize investment? Then take notice.

i disagree, it helps to counter the government subsidies the "imports" get in their own countries.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

...another one for Kev to fix!!!

While we're at it what is the government doing about the 1500 jobs IBM is cutting?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ibm-t...619-2oj98.html

[Itsme]

Rudd & Carr won't be in power long enough to do any good!!!

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by trublu

Rudd & Carr won't be in power long enough to do any good!!!

The term "benchwarmers" comes to mind....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

SEM Fire and Rescue have been making Fire Trucks in Victoria since 1955. They are about to start on another round of redundancies - 10 will go this time.

I imagine that if SEM received $1 for every $3 they invest SEM would be a very profitable business!

Only if SEM in Ballarat fully assembles the truck from the ground up.....

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

SEM Fire and Rescue have been making Fire Trucks in Victoria since 1955. They are about to start on another round of redundancies - 10 will go this time.

I imagine that if SEM received $1 for every $3 they invest SEM would be a very profitable business!

Originally Posted by jpd80

Only if SEM in Ballarat fully assembles the truck from the ground up.....

With no components imported from Asian sweat shops?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Wretched

While we're at it what is the government doing about the 1500 jobs IBM is cutting?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ibm-t...619-2oj98.html

Yep... it's a growing trend. It's just soo much better employing people in cheap labour markets to do the job.

[zilo]

If the dollar keeps diving over the next 3 years ( and you can bet on it).

It would not surprise me if some Asian manufacturer didn't snap up a turn key auto manufacturing plant like Mitsubishi did with chrysler in adelaide.


Just a thought.....locally made Kia anyone?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by zilo

If the dollar keeps diving over the next 3 years ( and you can bet on it).

It would not surprise me if some Asian manufacturer didn't snap up a turn key auto manufacturing plant like Mitsubishi did with chrysler in adelaide.


Just a thought.....locally made Kia anyone?

I think Hyundai would do well building a dual cab 4wd ute in Australia.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think Hyundai would do well building a dual cab 4wd ute in Australia.

Be funny to see how many would support the "Aussie made " then .....

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by IDT

I am one of those who think tax payers dollars can be much better spent elsewhere. Its all good and well to want to prop up a foreign owned industry that couldn't be located further away from foreign markets (except NZ) and enforces internal trade restrictions. Australia needs massive investment into a national rail network. We only have one real road that connects the Eastern and Western states. All of our airports are bulging at the seams.

Our airports are a different issue, and no, they are not bulging at the seams as you would like to suggest.

Additionally, a 'National rail network' has unique challenges in this country considering the natural disasters, great distances, and population density. The US hasn't even tried with this and they seem to be doing acceptably.

One road that connects the eastern and western states, the question you should be asking is how many use that road? Ideally we need to work on roads on the east coast for now, and work on rail for the greater distances. High speed rail perhaps as well for the eastern states.

On taxpayer dollars being spent elsewhere: Find me a Automaker that hasn't requested grants from any country they operate in. Toyota etc received grants in 2008 to keep their American plants open, subsidies for the mexican plants, so on. Similarly with other automakers around the globe.

Holden and Ford receiving grants from our government is not unique, and we should stop acting like companies never ask for subsidies or grants to operate in various countries - it's commonplace.

I say screw investing in Ford, GM and Toyota. Use the same money to build a massive industrial R&D training and manufacturing hubs in each State and start training those who will build the inevitable infrastructure our country needs.

And when that infrastructure is completed, what of the unskilled workforce that would mostly be comprised of labourers? You suddenly have thousands of unskilled workers who are out of work, with perhaps 10% of them staying on for ongoing maintenance.

This was the same issue the world faced after WW1 when masses of soldiers came back to find no jobs they could be suitable for. It was also a similar issue in WW2, the immediate decade afterwards. Reconstruction and a massive boom kept that at bay somewhat, however.

Manufacturing keeps skilled work in the country, it's not about keeping the jobs here, but the level of skill required for those jobs at a higher standard than mere labouring.

Originally Posted by Wretched

While we're at it what is the government doing about the 1500 jobs IBM is cutting?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ibm-t...619-2oj98.html

Every company does this - The government shouldn't keep the jobs here, but take the more difficult approach of keeping our country competitive; in other words upskilling the population and becoming more specialist in what we can offer to global markets.

You wonder why so many specialist carmarkers are either in the UK or Italy?

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

With no components imported from Asian sweat shops?

You'd be hard pressed to find any product in Australia that hasn't had components imported from somewhere. Thinly veiled phobias have no place in any discussion.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Be funny to see how many would support the "Aussie made " then .....

Zip...

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Only if SEM in Ballarat fully assembles the truck from the ground up.....

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

With no components imported from Asian sweat shops?

Originally Posted by Lardman

You'd be hard pressed to find any product in Australia that hasn't had components imported from somewhere. Thinly veiled phobias have no place in any discussion about manufacturing.

My point has consistently been:

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

What is it that justifies that Governments should plough $Billions into the Falcon, but nothing into:
SPC
SEM
CMI
etc.

Where should the line be drawn?

[Lardman]

From what I could find, SPC received state government grants.

SEM are reliant on the Vic government and CFA ordering new vehicles, you can place the blame on the newly entered liberal state government cutting funds on that for the job losses there.

CMI is a flow-on issue from ailing local car sales, and the government not forcing decent management of their funds.

As to where the line should be drawn?

Why should a line be drawn? Australia is doing extremely well financially, and realistically the mines won't last forever. I feel a line shouldn't be drawn as long as our financial position is still the way it is with a positive outlook, and we keep propping up these industries. In a few decades, we won't have the mines to lean on, and without a skilled workforce we'll be no better than a lot of third world countries in terms of workforce capability.

Keeping manufacturing and skilled work, promoting innovation and up-skilling our workforce gives us a long term solution that isn't "****, save money from the mining taxes".

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Lardman

From what I could find, SPC received state government grants.

SEM are reliant on the Vic government and CFA ordering new vehicles, you can place the blame on the newly entered liberal state government cutting funds on that for the job losses there.

CMI is a flow-on issue from ailing local car sales, and the government not forcing decent management of their funds.

The growers are asking for $28million in loans to replant - nothing offered yet.

SEM build engines for all Services in many States so are not reliant on Vic Government or CFA.
The 2012-2013 budget is the 2nd largest in CFA history. "CFA Chief Executive Officer Mick Bourke has welcomed almost $57 million in infrastructure and equipment spending on emergency services, announced in the state budget." $12.3 million went to additional vehicles.
The largest is 2011-2012 which included addition spending resulting from the VBRC.
As at September 2012, the CFA had "$300 million in the bank that has been provided in past years for projects and programs that are to be delivered over the next few years."

Totally agree with your comments on up skilling.

[mik]

Originally Posted by IDT

I am one of those who think tax payers dollars can be much better spent elsewhere. Its all good and well to want to prop up a foreign owned industry that couldn't be located further away from foreign markets (except NZ) and enforces internal trade restrictions. Australia needs massive investment into a national rail network. We only have one real road that connects the Eastern and Western states. All of our airports are bulging at the seams. I say screw investing in Ford, GM and Toyota. Use the same money to build a massive industrial R&D training and manufacturing hubs in each State and start training those who will build the inevitable infrastructure our country needs.

The sentiment is good but i think you would come up short on funds by a long, long , long shot.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

The growers are asking for $28million in loans to replant - nothing offered yet.

SEM build engines for all Services in many States so are not reliant on Vic Government or CFA.
The 2012-2013 budget is the 2nd largest in CFA history. "CFA Chief Executive Officer Mick Bourke has welcomed almost $57 million in infrastructure and equipment spending on emergency services, announced in the state budget." $12.3 million went to additional vehicles.
The largest is 2011-2012 which included addition spending resulting from the VBRC.
As at September 2012, the CFA had "$300 million in the bank that has been provided in past years for projects and programs that are to be delivered over the next few years."

In which case if the grants aren't effective, I would personally look long and hard at how the business is operating, as it sounds like mismanagement may also be at play.

Your thoughts on my previous 2nd point however?

[westy73]

Ok so has anyone read the latest Motor magazine.
In there the article about the GT and being the Final Phase is interesting. They even state that there is a market for larger sedans from Ford. The numbers they spoke of were 10000 Falcons, 5000 Utes and 15000 Territories. So that comes to 30000 cars per annum.

Now looking at an average sale price (I will go low side here of $30000 per vehicle) this comes to $900,000,000 per year. Is that not good enough dosh to keep making them here ? What would the costs be for this sort of turnover ?? I am no accountant but that sounds pretty good to me even on a low side average sale projection.