Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms - Page 3

stazza · 10-12-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

If they're so bad, why are the kept on?

You completely missed the point. They are TA's, not much skill involved, but they are enjoying the benefits earned by us unionists, but they refuse to pay it forward and will resort to bagging the unions.

Quote:

You really have no idea how thankful they are to be able to work here do you? .

I think you're the person that has no idea. One minute they are disgusted by out wages, the next we have no idea hoe thankful they are?

You are just making this up as you go. Typical.

**MercurySilver** · 10-12-2013, 12:44 PM

im with you stazza
we just did a massive EBA and the mind blowing scabbness of some people is mind blowing

we as a union stood together and actually were going to get right royally screwed by our company (of course all the while salary lost no perks what so ever, even kept stuff that was getting ripped away from us as wage earners)
we stood fat and come to a great agreement with the union and members

non union members were even disgusted with what the company offered originally

when we negotiated a great deal for ALL i asked a non unino member i worked with now do you see why we join a union?
will you sacrifice the $10 a week now?

the answer was
'nope, why the **** should i, i get what you get without having to pay $10 a week"

i means thats really pulling together and standing as a team and a collective working environment so its better for everyone and making sure the gap between upstairs and the floor is maintained at least at a decent gap

totally unreal
and they say union members are greedy?
that peanut is the biggest greedy pig of all imo
/rant

can see this becoming a bad thread

BA GT-HO · 10-12-2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

This MAD bloke is just talking out of his *** and clearly has no personal experience on the issue, he is just drawing from assumptions. You can't just assume how it is when there are people posting in this thread that know exactly how it is.

If the 457s are offended by our wages then maybe they should go back home and let a struggling middle aged family man have a chance at making a living.

When you keep pulling this bullshit out of your *** it just proves you have absolutely no personal experience in these matters. You will believe anything the media says about the big bad unions because you don't know **** and it simply doesn't concern you. Maybe you should keep your UNEDUCATED opinions to yourself and let us people that are actually in this industry decide what is best for us due to our own experiences.

Wow..

'Struggling' with your:

2011 SILHOUETTE FPV GS 315 #0275
500+ rwhp thanks to BPT Motorsport

A lot of these guys that come here and send money back are doing it because they are trying to make a better existence for their families. How is that a crime?

I always notice union believers always use the word 'shaft, shafting or shafted' a lot.

stazza · 10-12-2013, 12:51 PM

The greedy ones are the scabs. Can't take the new pay fast enough but won't give 10 or 15 bucks a week back. But if you take their pay and rights away they will complain and ask the union to help. I've seen it first hand.

BA GT-HO · 10-12-2013, 12:54 PM

I think Mr stazza needs a trip to a manufacturing site in Asia.

The sight of people living on cardboard boxes outside a factory waiting in line for a job will make you think we really are lucky here and it will make you understand why they come here and think $15 an hour is good money.

**MercurySilver** · 10-12-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I always notice union believers always use the word 'shaft, shafting or shafted' a lot.

well what would you call it when they want to gut your eba (wage earners) but salary get to keep exactly the same stuff that is being taken from you as a wage earner?

shafted springs to mind

**SSD-85** · 10-12-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I think Mr stazza needs a trip to a manufacturing site in Asia.

The sight of people living on cardboard boxes outside a factory waiting in line for a job will make you think we really are lucky here and it will make you understand why they come here and think $15 an hour is good money.

And what do they do about that? Come here & leech off the already-established prosperity of this country.

What is to stop them from standing up for what they want in their own country, and fighting for it like what our forefathers did to make this country what it is today?

If you do nothing about it, of course its not going to change.

stazza · 10-12-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Wow..

'Struggling' with your:

2011 SILHOUETTE FPV GS 315 #0275
500+ rwhp thanks to BPT Motorsport

A lot of these guys that come here and send money back are doing it because they are trying to make a better existence for their families. How is that a crime?

I always notice union believers always use the word 'shaft, shafting or shafted' a lot.

Why should I care about their family. Do they care about mine?

As for "struggling" with my car, not really any of your business how I came to afford it. But it wasn't bought with cash from my exorbitant greedy over-generous wages.

I never said I was struggling by the way, I have in the past, but thankfully my hard work has paid off and I don't have to struggle at this current point in time because our union negotiated EBA has ensured we earn what we are entitled to. But hey, tomorrow I might not have a job, thank god for the union negotiating our redundancy packages.

Please enlighten us evil union folk what you do for a living that gives you such insights into this industry BA GTHO and MAD.

Mighty Reds · 10-12-2013, 01:05 PM

Good lord, everything is give and take.
I hate this take my bat and ball and go home type attitude that some people have.

BA GT-HO · 10-12-2013, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Why should I care about their family. Do they care about mine?

Go **** yourself.

That one statement goes against the very ethos of a union.

MAD · 10-12-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

You completely missed the point. They are TA's, not much skill involved

Nice way to talk about your colleagues. Didn't you just mention something about working from the bottom up?
So are they scabs, or crap workers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

I think you're the person that has no idea. One minute they are disgusted by out wages, the next we have no idea hoe thankful they are?

You are just making this up as you go. Typical.

That's a funny thing about sacrifice. You sometimes do things you don't want to, or feel comfortable with.

If you knew the situation they are trying to get their family out of back home, you might reconsider your hatred.

We had a guy, on a 457, leave suddenly and go back home because he felt his position was too cushy, and thought the other guys might be judging him. His internal conflict had him feeling like an outcast.
He was convinced to come back but in to a modified role that reduced the perceived cushyness.

MAD · 10-12-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Why should I care about their family. Do they care about mine?

If you got to know any of the guys even slightly, you would know they would fight like hell to protect your family.

superyob · 10-12-2013, 01:11 PM

To many spiteful words given life here... It is just a discussion/argument. If you have to respond with insults maybe don't upset yourself by partaking of this forum's topic?

As for unions, most are either for or against but the best pay I ever got in my former occupation as a diesel mechanic was in non union work shops...

stazza · 10-12-2013, 01:17 PM

So any of you members posting on here that are for the 457's would give away your job to a foreigner because they are in a less fortunate position than yourself?

That's essentially what you are saying. I'd like to see you out your money where your mouth is.

xbgt75 · 10-12-2013, 01:17 PM

The problem is with everyone who lives in this country, not the unions, not non-union workers, not management, not overseas workers.. Everyone. Everyone wants a big house and 4 lcd tvs. Everyone wants 3 cars and a full fridge. Once upon a time only a lucky few had such things. There were class divisions (I use that phrase VERY loosely so dont flame) and there were distinct differences between blue collar and professionals.

Now everyone thinks they have the right to have all these things. So what happens? Wages go up and prices of items go down. Example is a $1000 TV 30 years ago and a $15k salary. Now the median salary in Aus is about $58k and you can get an LCD TV for $400.

When prices go down the cost of manufacturing must go down too. When wages go up the cost of manufacturing must go down.

Australia is simply not a viable country for manufacturing. Why? Because everyone want to earn big money and pay pittance for manufactured goods.

What to do about it?
1) Pay decent money for goods. Dont always shop online and buy the cheapest chinese crap you can find. Save your money (remember doing that?) for the item you really want and support local.
2) Acknowledge your place in the workforce. If you want to earn more money then do something that pays more. No one is making you be a production line worker or a labourer. I mean no offense by this but seriously... Instead of bitching and moaning and forcing the employer to pay you more, go back to school and learn something that pays more. Remember when employers were thanked for employing people, now some seem to think it is their right to be employed and to earn heaps and have heaps of holidays and sick leave.

Hopefully now everyone will see what raising costs does to big manufacturing companies. They move to countries where costs are lower and now none of the employees get anything. Should have thought of that before huh....

My 2c for what it is worth......

superyob · 10-12-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Why should I care about their family. Do they care about mine?

As for "struggling" with my car, not really any of your business how I came to afford it. But it wasn't bought with cash from my exorbitant greedy over-generous wages.

I never said I was struggling by the way, I have in the past, but thankfully my hard work has paid off and I don't have to struggle at this current point in time because our union negotiated EBA has ensured we earn what we are entitled to. But hey, tomorrow I might not have a job, thank god for the union negotiating our redundancy packages.

Please enlighten us evil union folk what you do for a living that gives you such insights into this industry BA GTHO and MAD.

Is this not a union concern? Unions certainly support international causes...

johnydep · 10-12-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

So any of you members posting on here that are for the 457's would give away your job to a foreigner because they are in a less fortunate position than yourself?

That's essentially what you are saying. I'd like to see you out your money where your mouth is.

Very sad to see a remark like this, reminds me of my primary school days when parental attitude ended up in the school yard. Bullying and fighting, name calling and racism - "wogs", "dagos", "ching", "get out of our country". PATHETIC.

I thought we had left this all behind us in the 90's. Now its back again because the previous government sided with the old union mentality - "scabs" "foreigners".

MAD · 10-12-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

So any of you members posting on here that are for the 457's would give away your job to a foreigner because they are in a less fortunate position than yourself?

That's essentially what you are saying. I'd like to see you out your money where your mouth is.

That's the thing, you don't need to give up your job for a position to be filled by a 457 worker.
And you reckon I'm forming an opinion based on misinformation and assumption?

PlukaDuck · 10-12-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

You really have no idea how thankful they are to be able to work here do you?

Yes there are very happy.

You really have NO IDEA DO YOU.
And unfortunately people like you will be the downfall of this country.

Foreign workers take approx. 3 billion dollars annually out of this country.
Multinational companies who earn billions a year who are now using 457 and 456 to undermine Australian workers conditions also are taking billions away in wages that get spent in this country.
SIMPLE EXPLANATION.
Australian gets $ 1000 a week and spends it here
457/456 Takes your job and gets paid $500 a week, but sends the money overseas.

And when you ( mad ) loose your job and resort to living in a card board box with your family don't come on here complaining because you where and are instrumental in letting it happen

**MercurySilver** · 10-12-2013, 01:31 PM

ummm
scabs arent foreigners
you do know what a 'scab' is dont you jd?

its someone who will take all the benefits that you get as a member of a collective group of people who stood for fair rights and a reasonable pay cheque, but wont chip in a few dollers a week to help support that collective group of people doing the job of getting said fair rights and reasonable pay cheques FOR EVERYONE

id like to see people who dont want to be in a union go in with management and negotiate their conditions one on one.

cant see how racism was brought into it
?????

stazza · 10-12-2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superyob

Is this not a union concern? Unions certainly support international causes...

I've not yet met a 457 that is in the union. Why would the union supoort someone who doesn't support them?

johnydep · 10-12-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

ummm
scabs arent foreigners
you do know what a 'scab' is dont you jd?
....
?????

Really...do I have to spell out everything?

I wrote examples of some of the words that have been posted on this forum - "scabs", "foreigners"; see the "" and the ,

Besides - who cares? Both terms are 19th century abuse by a class of people that have no thought for anyone but themselves and their little world.

MAD · 10-12-2013, 01:45 PM

In typical fashion, when the union belief system is questioned, it's only a matter of time before you see the true colours.
They try to say they're fighting for everyone, then they get ****ed that others are enjoying what 'they' fought for, and eventually you see they really only joined to secure themselves better conditions.
Then you get the wishes of misfortune if you still don't agree.

BA GT-HO · 10-12-2013, 01:49 PM

I am truly stunned that none of you union sheep can see that it is just all an elaborate extortion racket. Closed union shops that won't employ anyone unless they are in the union (union threatens company with mass walk out if new employee is not paid up) are thankfully becoming less and less prevalent, but still can you not see the past history? This was a form of legal organized crime. Standing over people to pay money for 'protection'.

A lot of brainwashing has occurred out there and now people believe they deserve $x amount every year 'coz everyfink is hell expenziv nowdayz'. This is one of the reasons the car industry is dying. One of many, but still a big part of it.

stazza · 10-12-2013, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

That's the thing, you don't need to give up your job for a position to be filled by a 457 worker.
And you reckon I'm forming an opinion based on misinformation and assumption?

You are forming an opinion based on no information at all. I am TELLING you I, and 15 workmates were replaced by 457's at a small company. This is a fact. I was there. I would know.

If you dont need to give up your position for it to be filled by a 457, then that means there is a vacant position and aussie worker could fill. Does this make sense to you?

superyob · 10-12-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

In typical fashion, when the union belief system is questioned, it's only a matter of time before you see the true colours.
They try to say they're fighting for everyone, then they get ****ed that others are enjoying what 'they' fought for, and eventually you see they really only joined to secure themselves better conditions.
Then you get the wishes of misfortune if you still don't agree.

There does seem to be a fair bit of "Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie" mentality here...

superyob · 10-12-2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I am truly stunned that none of you union sheep can see that it is just all an elaborate extortion racket. Closed union shops that won't employ anyone unless they are in the union (union threatens company with mass walk out if new employee is not paid up) are thankfully becoming less and less prevalent, but still can you not see the past history? This was a form of legal organized crime. Standing over people to pay money for 'protection'.

A lot of brainwashing has occurred out there and now people believe they deserve $x amount every year 'coz everyfink is hell expenziv nowdayz'. This is one of the reasons the car industry is dying. One of many, but still a big part of it.

Although I do agree with you mostly, unions once (a long time ago) had a prominent role in making employers pay a fair wage for a fair days work... I'm not sure that they are so relevant now with many of the outrageous demands put on employers, but maybe they still have a place...

stazza · 10-12-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

In typical fashion, when the union belief system is questioned, it's only a matter of time before you see the true colours.
They try to say they're fighting for everyone, then they get ****ed that others are enjoying what 'they' fought for, and eventually you see they really only joined to secure themselves better conditions.
Then you get the wishes of misfortune if you still don't agree.

If the EBA was fought for and negotiated by us union members (we are coming up on an EBA renewal in the near future that us paying unionists will be fighting for), then why should non paying members be eligible for any of the benefits? None of them would stand up and negotiate, they would just sit on their hands and hope for the best. And if they get a crappy agreement they would complain to no end and blame the union for signing off on a **** agreement. It's happened at my current workplace.

Have any of you non unionists seriously been in these situations? I'm finding it hard to believe that ANY of you are speaking from experience. Prove me wrong.

BA GT-HO · 10-12-2013, 02:08 PM

AMWU member for years. Been there done that. The problem with most union negotiated EBAs is that the best bloke in the plant still gets paid as much as the worst. Also it is just something bludgers can hide behind. Drinking on site? Go in with a union rep and the worst you will get is a rehab course! Bollocks.

superyob · 10-12-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

If the EBA was fought for and negotiated by us union members (we are coming up on an EBA renewal in the near future that us paying unionists will be fighting for), then why should non paying members be eligible for any of the benefits? None of them would stand up and negotiate, they would just sit on their hands and hope for the best. And if they get a crappy agreement they would complain to no end and blame the union for signing off on a **** agreement. It's happened at my current workplace.

Have any of you non unionists seriously been in these situations? I'm finding it hard to believe that ANY of you are speaking from experience. Prove me wrong.

I have to admit that I am in a union purely because of a certain legal benefit. I do get concerned about the claims the union makes because we are on a good thing mostly and I can see a time when union demands will outstrip reality and we will all be replaced by 457s with Kellog's Corn Flakes qualifications... Am I happy to take the pay rises and conditions? Hesitantly so. I am worried that the more we take, the sooner we will loose what we have...