The WORST Falcon model, and why. - Page 3

Sprintey · 05-07-2020, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The "click" position was the correct position, not where the words were.

The A/C had 2 positions, one was RECIRC & one was FRESH.

There were 4 positions in all (not 3 !!). From memory 9 o'clock was FRESH with no A/C, 11 o'clock was FRESH A/C, 1 o'clock was RECIRC A/C & 3 o'clock was RECIRC no A/C.

I remember every 2nd car coming in for service during summer with the knob at 12 o'clock (half way between the two A/C settings). So many owners were just as confused as you were.

I agree though it wasn't a very obvious switch operation.

My vote for worse Falcon series in modern times was the EA series 1, with the EF a close 2nd. How could Ford get the EF so wrong, the EBII & ED were very good cars. The XK was awful for different reasons as already mentioned.

Dr Terry

Glad you mentioned EF, it gets a mention for the front and rear suspension schizophrenia.

I bargained for an EF for our first (second hand) family car, couldn't agree, then succeeded on a slightly cheaper ED Classic instead - fantastic car, so glad I got the ED instead.

Also: Uncle had early VN brand new that was a good car, 34mpg and very sprightly off the line, although it was a bit noisy. Good car overall and the 'big' Holden was a talking point for many people.

Sprintey · 05-07-2020, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Honorable mention for junk Falcon has to go for any Windsor engine equipped with the mighty E7 heads as well.

What a piece of crap they are, moves about as much air as a 50 year smoker with emphysema for slovenly performance.

Put out a total of 165KW/175KW when the Tickford 6 was doing 164KW with 1000cc less displacement and 2 less cylinders.

Actually I quite liked the EB2 165Kw Windsor I drove in a Fairmont wagon, it was torquey down low and built speed nicely as the car floated along. If your lounge ever became mobile... Bonus was the digital speedo, oh yeah....

Sprintey · 05-07-2020, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

With the cam lobes rounding - Holden 5L does the same thing and its common to find pre VT examples with hydraulic flat tappet cams with damaged camshafts these days, people reckon its to do with oils not containing high levels of zinc anymore?

What was lead used for in fuel? It seemed to have very high octane levels, it was some form of lubrication as well?

Yep the lead was lubication - I think most of the world's supply was mined from Mt Isa and got identified as such in one lawsuit in the States? Correct me if wrong, saw that on TV once.

marty351 · 05-07-2020, 09:15 PM

Tetraethyllead

marty351 · 05-07-2020, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

So it moved well then?

Only while playing Barry White over the premium sound system.

MercuryT · 05-07-2020, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty351

Only while playing Barry White over the premium sound system.

That works

marty351 · 06-07-2020, 02:18 AM

XE falcon dodgy door hinges. Hated having to lump the extra weight just to close the door.
And then comes the door handles....

Dipstick key entry, immobiliser was/is a necessity.

But the seperate boot key and no internal boot release...

zipping · 06-07-2020, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I don't know that the VN was that much worse. The VN engine was harsh sure, but it went like the clappers with good economy (better than all 3 Ford sixes) & being all cast iron didn't kill head gaskets every season. Holden had a very good EFI V8 too.

The VN had a much better 4-sp auto (T700) & the same manual as the Ford (T5). The VN's suspension had been around for over 10 years & while rudimentary, was very reliable & held its wheel alignment settings for ages. Brakes on both Ford & Holdens in those days were ordinary at best. These were the early days of non-asbestos brake pads.

The VN's electrics were better than the EA. It didn't boil its battery & kill central locking actuators. The Ford power steering rack was basically the same as the VN but Ford mounted it on rubber bushes which quickly turned to jelly because of the Ford's multiple engine oil leaks. Power steering pump leaked straight onto the alternator as well. Every EA ever built has a leaking power steering pressure switch. Holden had none of theses dramas.

The EEC IV EFI was rubbish & not a patch on Holden's Delco set-up. Many hot-rodders use the VN-VP Delco EFI system in project cars even toady.

Panel fit & finish & interior materials on both cars were average but fairly equal.

Having serviced many 100s of both cars at retail & fleet level I believe that the VN was a better car to own long term than an EA. The XF was also a much better car than the EA.

Dr Terry

Yeh but crank angle sensor on hot days.

roKWiz · 06-07-2020, 07:03 AM

Anything after X series, why , no panel vans.

Rob 351 · 06-07-2020, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Yes because I was.

BA GT is rubbish. I should know, I drove one and slow, looks way overdone.

Sorry if it hurts Adam. The Turbo models far better in BA spec.

Couldn’t disagree more Mercury T!
Yes the F6/Typhoon was quicker but the BA GT was far from being rubbish and imo still look great today!
Slow.... That depends what your comparing it to! Was as quick as the Clubsport in 2003 and really made HSV lift it’s game as it had no real competition for many years before the BA GT came along.
The auto wasn’t the best in the BA GT and really held back the 290 but the manual was/is a very enjoyable drive, especially with a decent exhaust note to back it up..
I have a low k one in my collection and quite enjoy driving it when time permits. Still turns heads, never gives me an ounce of problems, and has one of the best exhaust notes in the business..
Just a great old Grand Tourer...

Dr Terry · 06-07-2020, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Anything after X series, why , no panel vans.

I think that sector was taken over by Hiaces etc. years ago.

Even when the Holden Ute re-appeared in 1990 there was no panel van there either.

Dr Terry

Dr Terry · 06-07-2020, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipping

Yeh but crank angle sensor on hot days.

The crank sensor in the dissy of the Ford EA 6 was just as bad, maybe worse.

Dr Terry

Franco Cozzo · 06-07-2020, 10:56 AM

I think that 4V 5.4L V8 really needs a manual transmission to shine, I've only driven the BTR and ZF variations and it was sort of nothing under 4000 RPM then it takes off like an ICBM

Something like that I feel that you'd want complete control over the box for maximum driver engagement rather than slushbox, regardless of how good the ZF is.

ford71V8 · 06-07-2020, 12:28 PM

XF was when the V8 was dropped

And this is the dash I was referring to.

(Pic was obviously taken on the rare day that everything was working and visible

)

zipping · 06-07-2020, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The crank sensor in the dissy of the Ford EA 6 was just as bad, maybe worse.

Dr Terry

Maybe matter of opinion.....but if you have a fleet of VN's and a significant number say 3-6 cars out of mid 30s cars have the same problem on the same day.....that's a significant issue.

and it re-occurred every hot day, mind you they were taxis

In my mind there is no doubt the EA coped better with 300k on the clock than the VN and the EA parts wise was cheaper to run.

The odd early VN had oil pump issues too so that would destroy the engine, broke engine mounts every other day, coil packs were expensive and for some reason went through alternators.

They also did not like like LPG where the EA had no issue.

Crazy Dazz · 06-07-2020, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I don't know that the VN was that much worse.

The VN was a bastardised Opel body, dropped onto VL running gear, with a POS 30yr old Buick pushrod engine. The interiors were terrible, and the car, on the whole, resembled a giant cow-pat.

But you're right, the XF was better than both.

Rob 351 · 06-07-2020, 04:47 PM

Yeah couldn’t agree more. Had a VN SS back in the day. Worst car I have ever owned!

BA-XT · 06-07-2020, 04:56 PM

Oil leaks.

I cut my teeth in my shirt lived mechanic apprenticeship in early 200's with EF-AU Taxies. The one thing that stood out was the amount of soaking wet oil that was on so many of them. Private cars included. Was it because of the paper type gaskets? B cause my BA has one weap from the rear but otherwise dry.

The amount of leaks on some of those cars was horrifying.

Also the head studs on the EF models. They'd leak from head gaskets and we replaced the head studs with bolts that had a longer thread, The AUs never gave much issues.

Sprintey · 06-07-2020, 04:56 PM

Can confirm crank angle sensor still a problem at VR - Dad's wagon had it fail while moving, lost everything including power brakes and steer, he did some acrobatics and went over a roundabout - luckily he was OK just a little shaken

Car sent into dealer multiple times, where the fault didn't show and it came back as 'intermittent'

Dr Terry · 06-07-2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The VN was a bastardised Opel body, dropped onto VL running gear, with a POS 30yr old Buick pushrod engine. The interiors were terrible, and the car, on the whole, resembled a giant cow-pat.

No VL running gear in a VN unless you're referring to the suspension. The Buick engine had a total remake in the mid-80, so it wasn't really 30 years old. You could say that the XF 6-cyl was a POS 25-30 year old design too, but 'old' didn't make it 'bad'. The 5.0 litre in the AU was a 35 year old design, but it wasn't an "old POS".

Was the EA interior any better than a VN ?, don't think so. The body on the EA was no better (or worse) than the VN. The cow-pat description could equally apply to the EA, it wasn't Ford's best effort.

The VN sold gangbusters compared to any early Commodore, buyers must have liked some part of it.

Dr Terry

Dr Terry · 06-07-2020, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Can confirm crank angle sensor still a problem at VR - Dad's wagon had it fail while moving, lost everything including power brakes and steer, he did some acrobatics and went over a roundabout - luckily he was OK just a little shaken

Car sent into dealer multiple times, where the fault didn't show and it came back as 'intermittent'

The crank sensor issue was seen in more than just Commodores & Falcons. I've probably replaced more Ford 6 distributors than I have GM crank sensors, but I replaced plenty of Honda & Mitsubishi crank sensors too & when you compare the numbers of cars on the road, these were probably worse per capita. Hasn't just about every Honda in Australia had 2 or more distributors fitted by now ?

Dr Terry

Syndrome · 06-07-2020, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Couldn’t disagree more Mercury T!
Yes the F6/Typhoon was quicker but the BA GT was far from being rubbish and imo still look great today!
Slow.... That depends what your comparing it to! Was as quick as the Clubsport in 2003 and really made HSV lift it’s game as it had no real competition for many years before the BA GT came along.

The FPV GT was so good it made HSV drop the GTS model for the VZ range. Why pay nearly $90K for a VY GTS with 300kW when you could get a BA GT for just over $60K with 290kW.

Mulva · 06-07-2020, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The VN sold gangbusters compared to any early Commodore, buyers must have liked some part of it.

For my dad it was the accidental single-pegger burnout when turning right out of the dealership on the test drive (V6 Calais). Gave the illusion of bulk power.

Was something I did myself many (many!) times in that car after he bought it, the only difference being his wasn't intentional and he backed off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Yeah couldn’t agree more. Had a VN SS back in the day. Worst car I have ever owned!

Seen the price of them now? If not, don't look.

Rob 351 · 06-07-2020, 08:00 PM

Had a quick look. Between 15-30 k is what they are asking.
Think I traded mine for 22 back in 1995.
Certainly no regrets.

XR Martin · 06-07-2020, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

No VL running gear in a VN unless you're referring to the suspension. The Buick engine had a total remake in the mid-80, so it wasn't really 30 years old. You could say that the XF 6-cyl was a POS 25-30 year old design too, but 'old' didn't make it 'bad'. The 5.0 litre in the AU was a 35 year old design, but it wasn't an "old POS".

Was the EA interior any better than a VN ?, don't think so. The body on the EA was no better (or worse) than the VN. The cow-pat description could equally apply to the EA, it wasn't Ford's best effort.

The VN sold gangbusters compared to any early Commodore, buyers must have liked some part of it.

Dr Terry

VN was a widened body on a VL structure.
Pop the bonnet and the engine bay is exactly the same, look underneath and it's VL.
Track is even the same between the two, which is why they look bloated.
Don't think the fixed it until VS.

MercuryT · 06-07-2020, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Couldn’t disagree more Mercury T!
Yes the F6/Typhoon was quicker but the BA GT was far from being rubbish and imo still look great today!
Slow.... That depends what your comparing it to! Was as quick as the Clubsport in 2003 and really made HSV lift it’s game as it had no real competition for many years before the BA GT came along.
The auto wasn’t the best in the BA GT and really held back the 290 but the manual was/is a very enjoyable drive, especially with a decent exhaust note to back it up..
I have a low k one in my collection and quite enjoy driving it when time permits. Still turns heads, never gives me an ounce of problems, and has one of the best exhaust notes in the business..
Just a great old Grand Tourer...

Fair enough and very good points made!

I think it's some of the colour combos just look odd (same for FG GT)

I was too harsh. Sorry

Franco Cozzo · 06-07-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Can confirm crank angle sensor still a problem at VR - Dad's wagon had it fail while moving, lost everything including power brakes and steer, he did some acrobatics and went over a roundabout - luckily he was OK just a little shaken

Car sent into dealer multiple times, where the fault didn't show and it came back as 'intermittent'

Its common on all Buick/Ecotec V6 Commodore, it's just behind the balancer.

Only use the genuine GM sensor because the aftermarket ones are crap.

There's like five things that crap out on Buick/Ecotec V6

DFI
Coil packs
CKP
BCM
Anti theft ring around ignition switch

Swordie · 06-07-2020, 08:50 PM

VN had the option of the fuel injected 5.0. This was really nice motor in it's time. One of the best sounding v8's around to this day.

Tassie f100 · 06-07-2020, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Martin

VN was a widened body on a VL structure.
Pop the bonnet and the engine bay is exactly the same, look underneath and it's VL.
Track is even the same between the two, which is why they look bloated.
Don't think the fixed it until VS.

On your basis the VN is just a V6 VB

MercuryT · 06-07-2020, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its common on all Buick/Ecotec V6 Commodore, it's just behind the balancer.

Only use the genuine GM sensor because the aftermarket ones are crap.

There's like five things that crap out on Buick/Ecotec V6

DFI
Coil packs
CKP
BCM
Anti theft ring around ignition switch

Bloody coil packs hey. That and the harmonic balancer (whatever that is)

My BA chewed them for fun.

Never had one oil leak in a decade so not all bad. Blew the turbo though, and two gearboxes, and other things