Why we're ALL about to go out and buy PHEVs

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

sorry to debunk your debunk, but cars need to be charged at night, I don't know about you but I've noticed that it gets dark during the night and generally the wind drops too.

and Coal equates to 75% of Australia Electricity not sure where you got your information.

Here is a news flash for you.

Tasmania is 100% renewable power generation...zero coal.
That same power is sent to Victoria 24/7

Electric cars get charged during the day because rooftop solar is producing more than the grid can absorb....in fact new inverters get powered off by utility grids to stop the grid from being swamped by solar panel generation.

Go to work..plug in the EV...come back ...EV charged.
All during the day....from solar power.

Now what else you got?

[jpd80]

Speaking of renewables and charging EVs at night, here’s something interesting,

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/12/...-in-australia/

Greenspot plans 500 MW/1,000 MWh battery at former coal-fired power plant in Australia

New South Wales-based development company Greenspot has lodged a planning application for a massive 500 MW/1,000 MWh battery energy storage system to be built at the site of the shuttered coal-fired Wallerawang Power Station near Lithgow in the Central Tablelands.

DECEMBER 17, 2021 DAVID CARROLL





From pv magazine Australia

The defunct Wallerawang Power Station has moved a step closer to becoming a sustainable energy hub with owner Greenspot lodging a development application and environmental impact statement with the New South Wales (NSW) Department of Planning, Industry and Environment to build an estimated $400 million battery energy storage system (BESS) at the site.

The privately-owned developer is also seeking to build a new transmission line that would connect the big battery to TransGrid’s existing 330 kV Wallerawang substation.

Greenspot, which acquired the former power station site from EnergyAustralia in September 2020, said construction of the energy storage system is expected to begin in early 2022. It is anticipated the big battery, dubbed the Wallerawang 9 Battery, will be fully operational by summer 2023/24, making it one of the earliest examples of how new and sustainable economies can be born from the retirement of coal-fired power stations.

We’re focused on delivering a shovel-ready site and we are aiming to work with leading energy market players to deliver a successful example of what’s possible as Australia transitions to renewable energy,” Greenspot chief executive officer Brett Hawkins said.

Greenspot, which was established with the objective of repurposing stranded fossil fuel assets, said the big battery is aligned with the state government’s electricity strategy and will provide enabling infrastructure for expanding the renewable energy industry in NSW, particularly in and around the Central-West Orana Renewable Energy Zone (REZ).

“We’re excited about the project’s potential to deliver storage, firming and other energy services to facilitate the introduction of more renewables into the NSW market,” Hawkins said.

Greenspot said the battery will also be a significant enabler for the transformation of the site into a multi-use hub for industry, providing a stable, reliable and cost-effective energy source for the future redevelopment.

Symmetric redox flow battery based on Blatter radicals

A Dutch-Danish research group has provided a proof of concept for the use of Blatter radicals in electrochemical energy-storage applications. It tested these compounds in a small electrochemical cell that was found to remain stable over 275 charge/discharge cycles.



Blatter radicals are organic compounds that have remarkable electronic and magnetic properties, strong chemical and thermal stability and reversible redox properties. All these characteristics make them potentially suitable for several applications, including their use in redox flow batteries.

A Dutch-Danish research team has used these compounds, which are also known as 1,2,4-benzotriazin-4-yl radicals, to build a prototype of a symmetric redox flow battery for applications in stationary storage. “Blatter radicals combine tunable redox potentials and high stability in all relevant redox states necessary for application as redox-active components in redox flow batteries,” the academics stated.

The scientists selected a single molecule that is intrinsically stable and that can accept or donate electrons, which means it can be used on both sides of the battery and, at the same time, show how minimal capacity fade during battery cycling.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by ivorya

A Hint Spud..... It's called research ;)

You'll find new bio plastics being made from seaweed, starch etc that break down in 60days.
Recycling plants of solar is occuring.
Australian companies have designed a processing plant for the recycling of Li ion batterys and have plants running in Germany atm.

Things are happening. Just not pushed by the FOX media. I wonder why?

Problem is they are building all these processing plants etc for this stuff miles away from towns where the waste comes from (read NIMBY) which in itself creates more trucks to cart the stuff, using more water, plastics, concrete and steel to build the stuff, more labour workforce commuting by car to get there.
Then turn around and claim themselves as carbon neutral !

I always get a laugh out of the green waste advert cycle they are currently promoting.....
I bin it, I pick it up (in a diesel truck), I process it (after I manage to get there in a car, using heavy machinery), I deliver it (again in a diesel truck) I grow it (with a diesel tractor) I deliver it (truck) I buy it (either driven there to buy or home delivered in a truck) I eat it.

Recyling starts at home, green waste, compost it yourself, grow it yourself, share it with the neighbours.

As for the car, an old maintained Ford or Holden used with descretion (meaning not down the shop every 5 mins) along with public transport would ultimately have to use less resources over raw material sourcing, building, buying, importing a new electric (or otherwise) car for quite a few years.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Recyling starts at home, green waste, compost it yourself, grow it yourself, share it with the neighbours.

Way to hard mate, easier to buy a new electric car that was manufactured in another country and shipped over, charge it with electricity from a coal plant, drive it to the supermarket and buy some prepackaged veggies that were brought in by truck, tweet about the rising cost of living on your new iphone and let everyone know you vomited when you smelt an ice vehicle drive by that day.

Saving the planet one new toy at a time

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Way to hard mate, easier to buy a new electric car that was manufactured in another country and shipped over, charge it with electricity from a coal plant, drive it to the supermarket and buy some prepackaged veggies that were brought in by truck, tweet about the rising cost of living on your new iphone and let everyone know you vomited when you smelt an ice vehicle drive by that day.



Saving the planet one new toy at a time

Yes, because fuel just magically appears at servos just like every other car sold in Australia...

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[jgmdat]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Way to hard mate, easier to buy a new electric car that was manufactured in another country and shipped over, charge it with electricity from a coal plant, drive it to the supermarket and buy some prepackaged veggies that were brought in by truck, tweet about the rising cost of living on your new iphone and let everyone know you vomited when you smelt an ice vehicle drive by that day.

Saving the planet one new toy at a time

Ha ha Gold.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yes, because fuel just magically appears at servos just like every other car sold in Australia...

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

I'm quite aware of where fuel comes from. Don't get me wrong i'm all about the electric future. I built myself an electric assist bicycle a few months ago to get to and from work and its charged from a 12v solar setup in my shed. But I am not deluding myself into thinking i'm saving the planet. How much do I have to ride it to pay back the pollution in the manufacture of the lithium battery? Plus the pollution from the ship it came on to get here? What about the electric motor? or the speed control? or the solar panel? I'll probably never ride it enough to pay that back before the battery or other components wear out and I have to do it again.

I don't shove it down other peoples throats and expect the gov to subsidize my choices in the name of saving the planet. The real problem is there are to many humans on this planet consuming to much crap they don't need.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So apparently if Each-Way Albo (aka "Greens' Sock-Puppet") moves into the big house,

Be afraid as that scenario is looking likely. The only thing that may stop him is the death of Kimberley Kitching gains any traction.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

As for the car, an old maintained Ford or Holden used with descretion (meaning not down the shop every 5 mins) along with public transport would ultimately have to use less resources over raw material sourcing, building, buying, importing a new electric (or otherwise) car for quite a few years.

Town planning plays a big part in this, the little country town of about 5000 people where I live has been designed in a way where it encourages you to drive to the shops rather than leave the car at home.

Most of the estates have either none or only partial footpaths, there's no bike lanes for cyclists to safely share the road and the estates don't connect to the town via footpaths,

If they do have footpaths they just randomly end and you need to walk on the road or nature strips, people's front yards etc.

We've also got limited public transport connections to Melbourne, a bus twice a day.

It's all a bit of a **** show, it's designed to get you in your car for short trips.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I'm quite aware of where fuel comes from. Don't get me wrong i'm all about the electric future. I built myself an electric assist bicycle a few months ago to get to and from work and its charged from a 12v solar setup in my shed. But I am not deluding myself into thinking i'm saving the planet. How much do I have to ride it to pay back the pollution in the manufacture of the lithium battery? Plus the pollution from the ship it came on to get here? What about the electric motor? or the speed control? or the solar panel? I'll probably never ride it enough to pay that back before the battery or other components wear out and I have to do it again.



I don't shove it down other peoples throats and expect the gov to subsidize my choices in the name of saving the planet. The real problem is there are to many humans on this planet consuming to much crap they don't need.

Fair enough. And I've always maintained we aren't going to consume ourselves into a positive outcome. We are kicking the can down the road so to speak. An EV produces less emissions, anyone suggesting otherwise is kidding themselves. Buying an EV is better than constantly running a car on imported fuel. Your pay back is not long and I've done the maths in other threads to show how quickly you can make it back even on 100% coal. The batteries last very long as well. First hand experience talking here.

With respect to subsidies, The govt literally has shoved utes down our throat with LCT exemptions and other tax breaks. You and others are welcome to continue buying cars that don't attract any discounts or rebates as I have too. But I don't remember everyone up in arms over tax breaks for utes?! Why over another segment?!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

want to hear the really sick part???



In Perth, if you buy an EV, Synergy will give you a special Electricity tariff, to make it cheaper to charge your EV, over night

That's right, night-time, when all the peak turbines are offline, and there is only the baseline.

And guess where that's coming from...

Still cleaner than diesel or petrol per kms. Roughly half the emissions.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

(Of course, on principle, I'll disable the plug and run it only on petrol.)

PHEVs typically run like a dog without the EV motor in play. They typically have undersized ICE that would be misery to drive. You'd cut your nose to spite your face?!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

When I go on a cruise and the ship is run on electricity, or when I fly overseas and the plane runs on electricity, then I'll consider buying an EV.

What the?! Cars ran on petroleum based fuels long before ships. Why can't Cars take the lead again?! And there weren't even planes when the first cars came out.

And many ships are Electric driven and the diesel engines work as generators (similar to the Chevy Volt and BMW i3 and many of our trains).

Both those use cases should leverage hydrogen. Still an electric motor though.

But before you jump on hydrogen, I'd rather not be at the mercy of a fuel station much like what is happening now with the world.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by kypez

But I don't remember everyone up in arms over tax breaks for utes?! Why over another segment?!
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

There is plenty of people upset about that even some on this very forum whinge about it. I'm sick of paying for other peoples driveway jewelry be it dual cab or phev/ev in the future. Put that into our health care industry or public transport, something that is helpful.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Gee it's hard to interact with some of you guys some times. It's as though you take anything presented with a different view as a personal affront.

and then you write a novel in response?

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

You're a smart guy. Vesper, I'm sure you could work out that my post related directly to Dazz's quote saying that EVs [in Australia] will be powered by brown coal. I wasn't referring to the quantity of coal (both black and brown) generation. If I was, I'd agree with the figure you've presented. But, fact is that brown coal generation made up somewhere between 13 and 17% of the NEM's generation sources over the last 12 months calculated on a daily basis. To state that EVs in Australia will be powered by brown coal is not right.

didn't actually read Dazz'z post signally out one type of coal doesn't really matter does it?

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

As far as the wind goes at night, I'm not sure where you're getting your data from (anecdotal? personal experience?) but have a look at that data source link I provided, for the entire NEM for the last 30 days and you'll see that, on average, there's not really that much variation between day and night with respect to wind generation. Sure, there's times when it is lower at night, but there's also times when it's higher, too.

personal experience from owning a boat you look at wind forecasts but regardless of averages if there is no wind at night your car is charged by Coal

you either missed the major point of my post or continue to ignore if to suit your statement.

renewables don't deliver the power needed at night - wait till every 2nd car is an EV, electricity providers will probably need to change when peak rates are.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by zilo

Here is a news flash for you.

Tasmania is 100% renewable power generation...zero coal.
That same power is sent to Victoria 24/7

Electric cars get charged during the day because rooftop solar is producing more than the grid can absorb....in fact new inverters get powered off by utility grids to stop the grid from being swamped by solar panel generation.

Go to work..plug in the EV...come back ...EV charged.
All during the day....from solar power.

Now what else you got?

This is no newsflash for me I'm well aware Tasmania's power comes from Hydro just like NZ where I'm from.
but does that change what I stated? no.

and so the workplace is expected to pay for the electricity to power their workers cars?? I don't think I've ever head such a ridiculous lefty statement


"Now what else you got?" why so aggressive everything in my post was correct.

[JasonACT]

I only do 100Ks max for the whole week, throughout the weekdays, I'll charge my EV on the weekend via solar while I'm enjoying the turbo.

I'm still not sure how "not collecting tax" is annoying people.

If anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax they want their head read. As a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be paying extra.

(Said by.. you know who.)

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

There is plenty of people upset about that even some on this very forum whinge about it. I'm sick of paying for other peoples driveway jewelry be it dual cab or phev/ev in the future. Put that into our health care industry or public transport, something that is helpful.

Yes, I agree. But those incentives still exist so I'm ok with EVs getting a subsidy. Get rid of all of them and make them a level playing field.

Interesting that you mention health care systems. Many health issues have been attributed to vehicle exhausts and the move away from ICE especially in the cities will see health improvements for people. Does an EV subsidy count as an investment into health care?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

and so the workplace is expected to pay for the electricity to power their workers cars?? I don't think I've ever head such a ridiculous lefty statement

Some workplaces pay above award wages to attract workers
Some workplaces give extra benefits to attract workers
Some might even install charging stations as a benefit to attract workers.

I don't get this religious war stuff with EVs.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by kypez

Interesting that you mention health care systems. Many health issues have been attributed to vehicle exhausts and the move away from ICE especially in the cities will see health improvements for people. Does an EV subsidy count as an investment into health care?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Well I guess its more beneficial then putting more diesels on the road so can't argue there

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by cs123

Some workplaces pay above award wages to attract workers
Some workplaces give extra benefits to attract workers
Some might even install charging stations as a benefit to attract workers.

I don't get this religious war stuff with EVs.

some... that might be true, I know Nissan has them for their own reasons.

But you are making an assumption. paying a bonus is one thing. fitting charging stations to a carpark is another thing entirely

what's religion got to do with this?

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Be afraid as that scenario is looking likely. The only thing that may stop him is the death of Kimberley Kitching gains any traction.

The worlds going to end, the worlds going to end!!!

They can't budget anything, the worlds going to end!!

[ivorya]

https://reneweconomy.com.au/perverse...ute-this-year/

This is fair, don't you think??

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

sorry to debunk your debunk, but cars need to be charged at night, I don't know about you but I've noticed that it gets dark during the night and generally the wind drops too.

and Coal equates to 75% of Australia Electricity not sure where you got your information.

I'd charge during the day. I work in the coal industry, so I can charge my car during the day when I'm at home since I'm almost certainly going to be at home during the day at least 2 times a week.

[Sprintey]

Goodness me this thread got serious since I last looked.

What will happen to all the rooftop solar/grid/EV's when we next have a Carrington Event?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Problem is they are building all these processing plants etc for this stuff miles away from towns where the waste comes from (read NIMBY) which in itself creates more trucks to cart the stuff, using more water, plastics, concrete and steel to build the stuff, more labour workforce commuting by car to get there.
Then turn around and claim themselves as carbon neutral !

I always get a laugh out of the green waste advert cycle they are currently promoting.....
I bin it, I pick it up (in a diesel truck), I process it (after I manage to get there in a car, using heavy machinery), I deliver it (again in a diesel truck) I grow it (with a diesel tractor) I deliver it (truck) I buy it (either driven there to buy or home delivered in a truck) I eat it.

Recyling starts at home, green waste, compost it yourself, grow it yourself, share it with the neighbours.

As for the car, an old maintained Ford or Holden used with descretion (meaning not down the shop every 5 mins) along with public transport would ultimately have to use less resources over raw material sourcing, building, buying, importing a new electric (or otherwise) car for quite a few years.

Agree with that last bit. Keeping a car (and servicing it) with robust, long-life mechanicals is far better for the planet as you don't need to renew it constantly. Read once that the CO2 emitted in it's lifetime equalled the CO2 emitted to create it...

Have always thought that if we convert the diesel fleet to run on CNG (of which we have a metric ***-ton of supply), we can go electric, much cleaner, and be self sufficient. CNG in a diesel fewer carbons in chain, cleaner. Please correct me if this can't be done, fuel engineers on the forums. But I thought diesels could be modified for this fuel.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I'm sick of paying for other peoples driveway jewelry be it dual cab or phev/ev in the future. Put that into our health care industry or public transport, something that is helpful.

15 people die from air pollution in Australia every day, so less pollution around cities would put less strain on the health system. It's like improving health care funding without even giving them any extra money.


On the topic of nuclear from the last page. Nuclear is one of the safest and cleanest forms of energy. Sure the waste is not good and needs to be stored safely, but the amount of waste produced vs the energy produced is a good ratio. I wouldn't want it as our main energy source, but it still has a place.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Goodness me this thread got serious since I last looked.

What will happen to all the rooftop solar/grid/EV's when we next have a Carrington Event?

What will happen to coal power plants and petrol powered cars when we have it? None of them will work.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Goodness me this thread got serious since I last looked.

What will happen to all the rooftop solar/grid/EV's when we next have a Carrington Event?

Originally Posted by Ben73

What will happen to coal power plants and petrol powered cars when we have it? None of them will work.

Exactly. What a silly comment to make. Much bigger problems at that point.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Sprintey]

It's not that silly. I want to know what would happen to a household solar array in this situation, as I have one. I suspect giant frying pan effect. Further, I'd almost guarantee all electric cars, smartphones, much of our communication - gone.

Going further still, I'd almost guarantee an HJ60 would continue to work - fully mechanical diesel. (manual crank, too!). Studies I have reviewed suggested most pre-computer cars would continue to work. Tyres would form a bit of a faraday cage.

We are rushing to create a future that is extremely vulnerable to exactly the disturbances that a decreasing protective magnetic field of Earth (happening) could allow more of. Ie, it wouldn't have to be the size of the Carrington Event to do widespread damage: look at the damage done in recent years by much smaller solar storms (documented & out there).