VFACTS OCT 2022- Ford second overall

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I used to like their cars but around the last 6 years or so they stopped making cars that were nice to drive, have taken away all the steering feel and have boat anchor engines that haven't kept up with the competition.

We had a 2016 Mazda 6 wagon as a company car until it got written off, absolute 180 for Mazda, soulless turd of a car, they should give you a PS4 controller to drive that thing instead of a steering wheel, would have more feeling.

MD Mondeo was the superior car by far.

All this with huge price rises too.

Had a quick glance at their range, Mazda 6 for $50K you gotta be having a laugh - that's WRX money.

It's been a gradual softening of their driving dynamics over a few years now. The whole Zoom-Zoom thing brought the brand to the top of the market. Mazda's were often the lightest cars in their class, the side effect being noisy cabins. They also had sharp steering and firmer ride quality. All good for Zoom-Zoom driving.

Except, while customers were brought to the brand by the Zoom-Zoom image, they didn't like the noisy cabin and the hard ride. Customers complained, Mazda reacted, and the result is numb steering and a heavier, less nimble car due to increases in noise reduction materials and construction.

I would probably still consider certain models in their range as class leaders, just that they don't hold a dynamic advantage they once had.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Mazda have hit a wall I reckon. They seem to have plenty of cars in stock?

I tend to agree with this. My small country town Mazda dealer is probably one of the fullest with stock out of all the local dealerships.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

They're copying Toyotas play book. People don't care for "drivers" cars anymore. They moved away from their "Zoom Zoom" focus. Seems there can only be 1 Toyota.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

The irony is that Toyota is moving away from their stale boring image and trying to attract a younger buyer, I guess they realise that 70 year olds are going to be dead sooner rather than later

Honda tried to emulate Toyota, worked out real well for them, now Mazda is having a crack too.

Given I've had all my options taken away from me as no one wants to make small cars anymore, it pretty much pushes me to Hyundai/Kia.

Mazda 2/3 - naturally aspirated engines, absolute joke in this day and age, also add in their lifeless cars, meh off list.

i20N/i30 NLine/i30N are the stand outs in the whole class, who'd have thought South Koreans would be leading the pack anywhere 10 years ago?

[ozrunner]

“Actually got a holiday on the Tesla forum for all my Pro Ford comments.”

As I asked. Link ?

“Perspective, more Tesla's delivered than Everest.”

O'Boy, you're doing it again comparing an apple against an orange. It's Ford sold 7823 and Tesla sold 1109 and YTD Ford sold 53298 and Tesla sold 15132 and trust me you don't want to see the overall YTD Ice versus EV figure. EV's will never exceed ICE in our lifetimes.

“I drove to Brissy and back over the weekend in my Tesla. 9 hours door to door including charging. One stop on the way there. Way home was 8:45 minutes door to door.....”

Absolutely no idea what this has to do with a sales figures discussion but I'll play and you lose as well.

Leaving tomorrow for a more than 7500klm return trip to a Melb regional town so also signing off as I need to pack. The ute can do 1500klms per tank with no stop required but also only take no more than 5 minutes to refill.

Before you get excited with costs comparisons I decided to take self funded early retirement and have been enjoying a work free life for the past 12 years and I also do not give a rats bum what fuel costs now or ever will and just fill the ute or my V8 4wd when required.

Chow

[XR Martin]

The eternal smugness of electric car owners will only last so long.
There are no free rides, so enjoy it while it lasts.
Not only will electric car owners have to pay their own way soon enough, everyone is going to be paying for upgrading the nation's electrical grid.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Chow

I too are rather enthusiastic about food, unless you meant 'ciao'

I think we're overdue for national infrastructure upgrade of the electricity network, let's do it right the second time and keep it taxpayer owned

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The eternal smugness of electric car owners will only last so long.
There are no free rides, so enjoy it while it lasts.
Not only will electric car owners have to pay their own way soon enough, everyone is going to be paying for upgrading the nation's electrical grid.

I paid more in tax for my EV than my Falcon. Please tell me more about this free ride. I'd love to hear more about it.

And speaking of fair share, I'd love to see the tax benefits striped from Dual Cab utes and see what the sales figures are after they pay their fair share

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

“Actually got a holiday on the Tesla forum for all my Pro Ford comments.”



As I asked. Link ?



“Perspective, more Tesla's delivered than Everest.”



O'Boy, you're doing it again comparing an apple against an orange. It's Ford sold 7823 and Tesla sold 1109 and YTD Ford sold 53298 and Tesla sold 15132 and trust me you don't want to see the overall YTD Ice versus EV figure. EV's will never exceed ICE in our lifetimes.



“I drove to Brissy and back over the weekend in my Tesla. 9 hours door to door including charging. One stop on the way there. Way home was 8:45 minutes door to door.....”



Absolutely no idea what this has to do with a sales figures discussion but I'll play and you lose as well.



Leaving tomorrow for a more than 7500klm return trip to a Melb regional town so also signing off as I need to pack. The ute can do 1500klms per tank with no stop required but also only take no more than 5 minutes to refill.



Before you get excited with costs comparisons I decided to take self funded early retirement and have been enjoying a work free life for the past 12 years and I also do not give a rats bum what fuel costs now or ever will and just fill the ute or my V8 4wd when required.



Chow

Can't link. It's a locked page. I'll see if I can dig up some screen shots but the threads get deleted on that forum. Bit soft there. And you can't say anything against the product or their Lord and saviour, Uncle Elon.


Ok, Mr Chow, let me explain my point since you keep getting caught up.

The comparison against Everest was calling out that besides the tax incentive Ranger, Ford's next best selling is selling less than the Model Y which were both released at the same time. One sold 5000 units, one has sold less than 1500. They are similarly priced cars as well with the Y about the price of the platinum. I know supply isn't helping the Everest but I don't see it hitting 4000 cars in any month nor do I see it hitting YTD of over 15,000 units. I'd be really happy if it did and I was wrong. How is Ford's sedans and SUV sales going again?

And great, you're going 7500 kms. What's your point? People say I can't do Sydney to Brissy in a day or Melbourne. Heck, my Everest could go off road and there is no EV in Australia that can. A guy just did a lap of Australia in his model Y. Just under 14,000 kms in 13 days or so.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Before you get excited with costs comparisons I decided to take self funded early retirement and have been enjoying a work free life for the past 12 years and I also do not give a rats bum what fuel costs now or ever will and just fill the ute or my V8 4wd when required.



Chow

Similarly, I don't own 4 Teslas, a GTF and a Mach 1 because fuel costs are an issue in my life. I've spent just shy of $600,000k on those cars alone not including my Everest and other cars in the last few years. But, for many others, I totally understand how saving money on fuel is driving their choice to EVs. Infact, most conversations I have with people are around the fuel savings. Not everyone is driving 7500 kms nor need 1500 kms range. Which is why Tesla are doing so well.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Dr Smith]

I think we took the wrong exit ramp from this thread....so I'll throw in a question...
once F-150 is up and running does anyone think it could overtake Silverado numbers.

I don't think it has a chance of matching RAM numbers as they offer their top spec Laramie and a wider range including the older model while Ford initially tops at XLT which will likely hold it back?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think we took the wrong exit ramp from this thread....so I'll throw in a question...
once F-150 is up and running does anyone think it could overtake Silverado numbers.

I don't think it has a chance of matching RAM numbers as they offer their top spec Laramie and a wider range including the older model while Ford initially tops at XLT which will likely hold it back?

What engine options are we going to have with our F150? No doubt Ecoboost is on the cards but are we getting a diesel option and the 5L V8?

If we don't have the 5L V8 option I reckon we'll lose sales to the Silverado because you have a large cohort of people who want these things with 8 cylinders, no ifs, buts or maybes.

[XR Martin]

No diesel F150.
Pretty sure we're only supposed to get the V8

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think we took the wrong exit ramp from this thread....so I'll throw in a question...
once F-150 is up and running does anyone think it could overtake Silverado numbers.

I don't think it has a chance of matching RAM numbers as they offer their top spec Laramie and a wider range including the older model while Ford initially tops at XLT which will likely hold it back?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What engine options are we going to have with our F150? No doubt Ecoboost is on the cards but are we getting a diesel option and the 5L V8?

If we don't have the 5L V8 option I reckon we'll lose sales to the Silverado because you have a large cohort of people who want these things with 8 cylinders, no ifs, buts or maybes.

It'd be interesting given they have only confirmed the V6 3.5 for Australia. No diesel option at the moment apparently. Only 1 engine choice.

Given that RAM nor Silverado offer a diesel (there are others selling diesel versions of the latter but not through GMSV from what I could see), if Priced right, I think they'd do well. Though, if the 3.5 V6 sounds anything like the Raptor 3.0 V6, I think people might still buy the V8 cars no matter the performance savings (fuel probably doesn't play a big role at that price point of the market).

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

No diesel F150.
Pretty sure we're only supposed to get the V8

Only the 3.5 Ecoboost apparently. No V8's for us.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

It'd be interesting given they have only confirmed the V6 3.5 for Australia. No diesel option at the moment apparently. Only 1 engine choice.

Given that RAM nor Silverado offer a diesel (there are others selling diesel versions of the latter but not through GMSV from what I could see), if Priced right, I think they'd do well. Though, if the 3.5 V6 sounds anything like the Raptor 3.0 V6, I think people might still buy the V8 cars no matter the performance savings (fuel probably doesn't play a big role at that price point of the market).

RAM 2500/3500 comes with 6.7L Cummins engine so they do have a diesel option, you just have to move up to the serious models it seems

The whole conversion thing is a bit of a crapshoot - there's multiple companies doing the conversions, and the same vehicles being sold into the market with various options through different companies, the only ones I'd be buying are from HSV/ASV.

Bit of a shame we only have one engine option rather than at least the 5L V8 being optional.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

RAM 2500/3500 comes with 6.7L Cummins engine so they do have a diesel option, you just have to move up to the serious models it seems

The whole conversion thing is a bit of a crapshoot - there's multiple companies doing the conversions, and the same vehicles being sold into the market with various options through different companies, the only ones I'd be buying are from HSV/ASV.

Bit of a shame we only have one engine option rather than at least the 5L V8 being optional.

Yes, true. I was limiting to the 1500 given we were asking about the F150. We might get a diesel if they bring the F250/350.

The 5L Coyote wouldn't be great in the NA form for the F150. Would have to be Supercharged like they are doing in the US for the Raptor (but thats the 5.2 engine they're using). NA would be tragic as the engine characteristics are all wrong for a Truck. Turbo or Supercharged to boost that bottom end torque. Or the 7.3 motor would be great.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I don't think I've ever actually filled out the service one but always get the courtesy call to see how the service was and to give them 9s or 10s. I'm sure the results would get skewed because of this call. They say anything below a 9 is considered a failure from Ford's point of view.

This is actually true - well it used to be anyway.

When I worked for a Ford dealership, it was something like;

• Very Bad
• Bad
• Good
• Very Good
• Excellent

Part of our sales commission was based on customer reviews (I can't remember what they called the program) and Ford only recognised 'Very Good' or "Excellent'.

Management of Ford used to say, "Good is not good enough."

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PG2

This is actually true - well it used to be anyway.



When I worked for a Ford dealership, it was something like;

• Very Bad
  
• Bad
  
• Good
  
• Very Good
  
• Excellent
  

Part of our sales commission was based on customer reviews (I can't remember what they called the program) and Ford only recognised 'Very Good' or "Excellent'.



Management of Ford used to say, "Good is not good enough."

But if you answer honestly, you get taken over the coals by the sales Rep! I had a terrible experience with my Mach 1 purchase and the initial rep left who was poor. New guy didn't do too much better. Overall, it was bad. Sad as much and got a heated call from the sales guy afterwards.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

I paid more in tax for my EV than my Falcon. Please tell me more about this free ride. I'd love to hear more about it.

And speaking of fair share, I'd love to see the tax benefits striped from Dual Cab utes and see what the sales figures are after they pay their fair share

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

That would be the Luxury car tax you had to pay?
if/when the Lighting comes here, it will likely cop both Luxury & the tax benefits

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

That would be the Luxury car tax you had to pay?
if/when the Lighting comes here, it will likely cop both Luxury & the tax benefits

LCT and then the beautiful GST on the LCT. Tax on a Tax. What a joke!

Lightning shouldn't get LCT. Utes/Trucks don't attract LCT (Payload greater than occupancy weight calculated at 68kg per passenger). Raptor doesn't get LCT for this reason.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

One issue that would make me really hesitant to buy an ordered vehicle right now is the thought of it being decontented while you wait....had that happen once with an Escape that underwent 2 model year updates before the final vehicle was built and on the water 11 months later...happened also to my sister and her RR Sport earlier this year.

First of all, great to see Ford selling more cars than they can deliver, great news for ford.

However...

We've been looking at replacing the dual cab (Colorado) recently and were hoping to buy an Everest Sport.

The dealer can't give us any sort of delivery date (maybe 12 months???) and will only say that, "Your deposit puts you in the queue."

I understand that it is hard to give delivery times and Ford is not the only brand in this situation.

But...

One of the problems, as you mentioned is what specifications will it come with. Leaving a deposit does not lock in the final price and we would be at the mercy of Ford as to what we would be paying at time of delivery. Another thing is trade-in price.

I asked what happens if I am not happy with the specification, pricing or trade-in value when the car finally arrives to which they replied, "We'll happily give you your deposit back."

I thought, "That's great, essentially you are waiting 12 months for the opportunity to buy a new car... and if it doesn't work out you have to start all over again."

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PG2

The dealer can't give us any sort of delivery date (maybe 12 months???) and will only say that, "Your deposit puts you in the queue."

I understand that it is hard to give delivery times and Ford is not the only brand in this situation.

But...

One of the problems, as you mentioned is what specifications will it come with. Leaving a deposit does not lock in the final price and we would be at the mercy of Ford as to what we would be paying at time of delivery. Another thing is trade-in price.

Another win for the online model. You can lock in the price of the car at the time of placing the order. If the price is cheaper when your car is delivered, you get the cheaper pricing. If the pricing goes up, they honour your reservation price.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kypez

But if you answer honestly, you get taken over the coals by the sales Rep! I had a terrible experience with my Mach 1 purchase and the initial rep left who was poor. New guy didn't do too much better. Overall, it was bad. Sad as much and got a heated call from the sales guy afterwards.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Generally I knew if I was going to get a good or bad review at time of delivery. I was far from perfect and sometimes things happened outside of your control.

I personally never contacted a customer directly over their customer survey - whether good or bad. I would only contact them if they mentioned something on their survey that I could personally fix.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PG2

Generally I knew if I was going to get a good or bad review at time of delivery. I was far from perfect and sometimes things happened outside of your control.

I personally never contacted a customer directly over their customer survey - whether good or bad. I would only contact them if they mentioned something on their survey that I could personally fix.

I've written some glowing responses for when people have been good to me and I'd suggest I'd give someone a favourable review if they were even Good. I'd lean towards a positive response over a negative one.

With the Mach 1, These guys took my money and I heard nothing back for months. I finally called only to be told the sales guy had left. Then the new guy I had to follow up every few weeks to get any update. Sure, if you don't have an update, thats fine but if you say, "I'll update you in two weeks", then update me in 2 weeks whether there is news or not. Even a quick SMS saying, "Sorry, no news yet" would've been acceptable.

Finally getting the car with damage and then trying to say I had caused it when I called it out at Delivery was the icing on the cake.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

LCT and then the beautiful GST on the LCT. Tax on a Tax. What a joke!

Lightning shouldn't get LCT. Utes/Trucks don't attract LCT (Payload greater than occupancy weight calculated at 68kg per passenger). Raptor doesn't get LCT for this reason.

Agree its a Joke

where do you find this info?

According to the ATO, the luxury car tax doesn’t apply if:

the buyer has an ABN and will use the car for specific purposes.
the car was manufactured in Australia more than two years before the sale.
the car was imported to Australia more than two years before the sale.
the car is exported as a GST-free export.
the car is registered for use as an emergency vehicle (or is intended to be one, such as an ambulance, firefighting vehicle, police car, or search and rescue vehicle).
the car is a motor home or campervan.
the car is a commercial vehicle designed mainly for carrying goods and not passengers.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Agree its a Joke



where do you find this info?



According to the ATO, the luxury car tax doesn’t apply if:



the buyer has an ABN and will use the car for specific purposes.

the car was manufactured in Australia more than two years before the sale.

the car was imported to Australia more than two years before the sale.

the car is exported as a GST-free export.

the car is registered for use as an emergency vehicle (or is intended to be one, such as an ambulance, firefighting vehicle, police car, or search and rescue vehicle).

the car is a motor home or campervan.

the car is a commercial vehicle designed mainly for carrying goods and not passengers.

The last point on that list

the car is a commercial vehicle designed mainly for carrying goods and not passengers

And then you need to check the definition of a commercial vehicle which is defined as having a payload being higher than passenger load calculated at 68kgs per passenger.

So Payload for a 5 seat ute needs to be more than 340kgs (5x68) to qualify (which all are capable of).

There were other criteria as well in the commercial vehicle schedule that toll operators took advantage of and classified Falcon utes as commercial vehicles whether used for commercial or private use because the tub is separate to the cab. Holden Utes were treated as cars given the unibody construction. Not sure what happened with the appeals but given Dual Cab utes don't seem to all attract commercial rates anymore, I'd suggest there was a change in the schedule.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

I've written some glowing responses for when people have been good to me and I'd suggest I'd give someone a favourable review if they were even Good. I'd lean towards a positive response over a negative one.

With the Mach 1, These guys took my money and I heard nothing back for months. I finally called only to be told the sales guy had left. Then the new guy I had to follow up every few weeks to get any update. Sure, if you don't have an update, thats fine but if you say, "I'll update you in two weeks", then update me in 2 weeks whether there is news or not. Even a quick SMS saying, "Sorry, no news yet" would've been acceptable.

Finally getting the car with damage and then trying to say I had caused it when I called it out at Delivery was the icing on the cake.

Why is it so hard to buy a car? Its the last frontier of consumer goods that are holding out in providing a better customer experience.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The eternal smugness of electric car owners will only last so long.
There are no free rides, so enjoy it while it lasts.
Not only will electric car owners have to pay their own way soon enough, everyone is going to be paying for upgrading the nation's electrical grid.

When does Vic start charging the road tax on EV's and Hybrids? Is that 2023?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

When does Vic start charging the road tax on EV's and Hybrids? Is that 2023?

Already been happening for a couple of financial years now (July 1st 2021). 2 cents/km for hybrids and 2.5cents/km for EVs. You have to use less than 5.9 litres/100 to pay less in fuel excise.

It's in the courts at the moment because the state is collecting a tax on cars potentially driving in other states.

[Vekgib]

Hmm. As usual, not a lot of mentions of actual sales numbers, so I'll just say that I'm looking forward to getting my 76 series Cruiser.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

When does Vic start charging the road tax on EV's and Hybrids? Is that 2023?

VIC stared this year, apparently the owner needs to photograph the speedo and send it to vic roads