VFACTS Dec 2023 and full year

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

To be fair to Ford Australia, in the case of the Escape, they received a bit over 100% of nothing when it was released here.

I know, I had a Vignale on order, signed Dec 2020, due Feb-March 2021, finally left Europe late 2021 and I cancelled the order in November 2021 when dealer wanted me to sign a waiver for removing any liability or compensation for 2 spec changes deleting several features that were on the Dec'20 demo build at the time of my date of signing to car on a ship near WA and heading to Vic. I was told you can sign or cancel...so I cancelled and had my deposit within 15 minutes.

For those interested it lost rear heated seats, heated steering wheel, switch to synthetic leather, I think loss of touch sensor locking on two rear doors...at one stage lost front parking camera, which I think returned... and not one mention of financial compensation.

Feels like there was a lot of shrugging shoulders and putting hands up in the air rather than Ford Ute management doing something about it though.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Feels like there was a lot of shrugging shoulders and putting hands up in the air rather than Ford Ute management doing something about it though.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

To be fair to Ford Australia, in the case of the Escape, they received a bit over 100% of nothing when it was released here.

I know, I had a Vignale on order, signed Dec 2020, due Feb-March 2021, finally left Europe late 2021 and I cancelled the order in November 2021 when dealer wanted me to sign a waiver for removing any liability or compensation for 2 spec changes deleting several features that were on the Dec'20 demo build at the time of my date of signing to car on a ship near WA and heading to Vic. I was told you can sign or cancel...so I cancelled and had my deposit within 15 minutes.

For those interested it lost rear heated seats, heated steering wheel, switch to synthetic leather, I think loss of touch sensor locking on two rear doors...at one stage lost front parking camera, which I think returned... and not one mention of financial compensation.

A little like their support of manual gearbox buyers
No options whatsoever unless you want a zillion dollar Mustang or a van


Ford Ute purveyor of Thailand Specials

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Feels like there was a lot of shrugging shoulders and putting hands up in the air rather than Ford Ute management doing something about it though.

Sellers did what sellers do when it's a seller's market. Treat their customers with disdain.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by b0son

Sellers did what sellers do when it's a seller's market. Treat their customers with disdain.

Spot on!

[BENT_8]

With unwaivering support, we should buy their product in record numbers, that'll teach 'em...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

With unwaivering support, we should buy their product in record numbers, that'll teach 'em...

That sums up the entire economy. Prices go up, everyone complains but keeps buying. Remember the $12/kg lettuces....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by b0son

That sums up the entire economy. Prices go up, everyone complains but keeps buying. Remember the $12/kg lettuces....

My mum's neighbour complained at the time her daughters' rabbits got out and ate $100 worth of lettuce in the veggie garden...

[b0son]

Lettuce dealers peddling ice(berg)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Feels like there was a lot of shrugging shoulders and putting hands up in the air rather than Ford Ute management doing something about it though.

Obviously, the people that want manual transmissions don’t matter anymore.
It’s automatic, like it or lump it, sign or don’t sign,…..

And the reason they can do that is because there’s a line a mile behind you
ready to take your place……welcome to the new customer experience.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Obviously, the people that want manual transmissions don’t matter anymore.
It’s automatic, like it or lump it, sign or don’t sign,…..

And the reason they can do that is because there’s a line a mile behind you
ready to take your place……welcome to the new customer experience.

How long is the line for the EV Mustang?

[CyberWasp]

Maverick would cannibalise Hilux 4x2 Sales if it was sold in Australia for the right price, way more than it would effect Ranger Sales.
Imagine the markets for these vehicles across Asian markets. All Ford has done in not releasing world wide, is give the other car companies time to develop a competitor. Absolute Sheer Lunacy.

Bronco Sport would be a good replacement for Escape. Plenty of market share to go for.

Bronco would sell here also. They should not compare its business case to the sales rate of the stupid over priced Wrangler. Who sees a non modified off road vehicle driving around. This vehicle is built for it.

Ford Management USA need a kick up the pants. If they are not willing to make these in North America then expand their factory in Thailand.

To get this straight, Ford Australian Engineers deigned a Ranger for Australia, Asia, Europe, China, Africa, Ect with each area requiring different sets ups, engines, gearboxes, suspension. Then they had to liaise with all of the different manufacturing plants in the different countries to help get them down the line. Then they had to work with VW and their requirements and once again help with the factories to get them down the line ect ect.

Ford USA Engineers design a Maverick for North America only and that is it.

Something does not add up.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Maverick would cannibalise Hilux 4x2 Sales if it was sold in Australia for the right price, way more than it would effect Ranger Sales.
Imagine the markets for these vehicles across Asian markets. All Ford has done in not releasing world wide, is give the other car companies time to develop a competitor. Absolute Sheer Lunacy.

Bronco Sport would be a good replacement for Escape. Plenty of market share to go for.

Bronco would sell here also. They should not compare its business case to the sales rate of the stupid over priced Wrangler. Who sees a non modified off road vehicle driving around. This vehicle is built for it.

Ford Management USA need a kick up the pants. If they are not willing to make these in North America then expand their factory in Thailand.

To get this straight, Ford Australian Engineers deigned a Ranger for Australia, Asia, Europe, China, Africa, Ect with each area requiring different sets ups, engines, gearboxes, suspension. Then they had to liaise with all of the different manufacturing plants in the different countries to help get them down the line. Then they had to work with VW and their requirements and once again help with the factories to get them down the line ect ect.

Ford USA Engineers design a Maverick for North America only and that is it.

Something does not add up.

Brilliant post!

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by b0son

That sums up the entire economy. Prices go up, everyone complains but keeps buying. Remember the $12/kg lettuces....

We had our hydroponic lettuce tower cranking at this time, I could sit outside and just count the green....

those were the days, just after the Toilet Paper Wars of 2020

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Maverick would cannibalise Hilux 4x2 Sales if it was sold in Australia for the right price, way more than it would effect Ranger Sales.
Imagine the markets for these vehicles across Asian markets. All Ford has done in not releasing world wide, is give the other car companies time to develop a competitor. Absolute Sheer Lunacy.

Bronco Sport would be a good replacement for Escape. Plenty of market share to go for.

Bronco would sell here also. They should not compare its business case to the sales rate of the stupid over priced Wrangler. Who sees a non modified off road vehicle driving around. This vehicle is built for it.

Ford Management USA need a kick up the pants. If they are not willing to make these in North America then expand their factory in Thailand.

To get this straight, Ford Australian Engineers deigned a Ranger for Australia, Asia, Europe, China, Africa, Ect with each area requiring different sets ups, engines, gearboxes, suspension. Then they had to liaise with all of the different manufacturing plants in the different countries to help get them down the line. Then they had to work with VW and their requirements and once again help with the factories to get them down the line ect ect.

Ford USA Engineers design a Maverick for North America only and that is it.

Something does not add up.

Yep top post. The thing that doesn't add up is that Ford Australia were not sovereign owned by an Australian company acting in it's own interest.

[Franco Cozzo]

Oh look, more focus on the tax exemptions on Thailand Specials:

Business won’t switch to EVs while tax lurks for guzzlers are so generous

The only catch to receiving the FBT exemption when buying an eligible dual-cab or 4WD is that, according to the legislation, private use needs to be limited. When businesses buy an FBT-exempt EV, there are no limits on private use.

At first glance, this seems to give small business owners a reason to switch to EVs, since they can use company money to buy a personal-use vehicle without FBT consequences. But in reality, the Australian Tax Office seems happy to ignore the multitudes of dual-cab utes and 4WDs used regularly for weekend fishing trips and family getaways. They say they’re cracking down on this, but I’m yet to see it happen.

Another disadvantage is the “car cost limit” under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997. It provides the maximum value of a vehicle that can be used for claiming depreciation and GST credits, which for the 2024 financial year is $68,108. It applies to EVs, but that doesn’t apply to eligible dual-cabs and 4WDs, since the latter aren’t considered “cars” for tax purposes – even though their use is often exactly the same. Their buyers can claim the full GST and depreciation credits, regardless of the vehicle’s purchase price.

Some small business owners may also be disadvantaged by reportable fringe benefit (RFB) disclosures in their personal tax returns, which are required for FBT-exempt EVs but not for FBT-exempt dual cabs and 4WDs. RFBs are not taxed, but are taken into account when calculating family tax benefit, childcare subsidy, higher education loan program repayments and other obligations.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...4-p5ev6v.html?

Suddenly the media is focusing on FBT exemptions on Thailand Specials, the government is talking about mandating fuel efficiency standards and looking into emissions.

Are we about to see a shift in the market? There's a lot of people who have no interest in cars suddenly interested and talking about all these tax and financial benefits that the top three selling vehicles seem to attract, and the blindness of the ATO towards the abuse of them.

I wonder if government intervention in the new car market is on Ford Australia's risk register, at the moment it works in their favor, its not a problem for Toyota because of their market coverage.

If the federal government and the prime minister for inner western Sydney suddenly intervenes forcing a market shift, its a serious problem for Ford Ute

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Bronco would sell here also.

The Bronco is about to be sold in the Philippines. Left hand drive markets are easy to sell into.
https://www.carguide.ph/2024/01/ford...bronco-is.html

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Oh look, more focus on the tax exemptions on Thailand Specials:



https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...4-p5ev6v.html?

Suddenly the media is focusing on FBT exemptions on Thailand Specials, the government is talking about mandating fuel efficiency standards and looking into emissions.

Are we about to see a shift in the market? There's a lot of people who have no interest in cars suddenly interested and talking about all these tax and financial benefits that the top three selling vehicles seem to attract, and the blindness of the ATO towards the abuse of them.

I wonder if government intervention in the new car market is on Ford Australia's risk register, at the moment it works in their favor, its not a problem for Toyota because of their market coverage.

If the federal government and the prime minister for inner western Sydney suddenly intervenes forcing a market shift, its a serious problem for Ford Ute

It’s just “noise” that rises up every few years but the truth is that there’s a conspiracy of silence.
It all goes back to when the ATO basically gave up on log book records because of the surveillance costs,
it’s much cheaper for the ATO to accept a statutory declaration for vehicle operators than to
comb through literally millions of manual log books every tax season.

Until there’s some form of enforced electronic gps vehicle monitoring, the system is not going to change.
The UK stopped all of this by making dual cab commercials subject to FBT, only single cab and super cab qualify.

How long is the line for the EV Mustang?

Sorry I missed this the other day. The manual trans battle was lost decades ago and I’m surprised no one noticed..

My comments were both sarcastic and specifically aimed at the complaint of no manual trans Rangers.
Ford don’t care about the manual sales they are missing out on, just the 9,800 odd automatics they sold last month.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s just “noise” that rises up every few years but the truth is that there’s a conspiracy of silence.
It all goes back to when the ATO basically gave up on log book records because of the surveillance costs,
it’s much cheaper for the ATO to accept a statutory declaration for vehicle operators than to
comb through literally millions of manual log books every tax season.

Until there’s some form of enforced electronic gps vehicle monitoring, the system is not going to change.
The UK stopped all of this by making dual cab commercials subject to FBT, only single cab and super cab qualify.


Sorry I missed this the other day. The manual trans battle was lost decades ago and I’m surprised no one noticed..

My comments were both sarcastic and specifically aimed at the complaint of no manual trans Rangers.
Ford don’t care about the manual sales they are missing out on, just the 9,800 odd automatics they sold last month.

Watch what will happen, media scrutiny, the federal government will intervene when there's political pressure around it.

They won't start logbooks, they'll just remove the tax advantages on Thailand Specials.

All it takes is a stroke of a pen and the party ends and that pen is getting closer and closer to being picked up, just like bringing forward the review of the Australian Standards on fuel quality and investigating the introduction of mandatory fuel efficiency standards.

kevino wasn't talking about manual Rangers, he's been a constant customer of Ford for their manual small Euro hatchbacks over the years, then they stopped offering manual euro hatchbacks, so he went to Skoda, then he's come back under the Ford brand with a DSG Puma with gritted teeth

Same as my family, went to Hyundai as Ford no longer offers new cars that my family buys.

Losing a lot of little sales here and there, thats how you end up being a car company that sells two vehicles, of which the biggest seller the customers are being incentivised by tax advantages, which can disappear tomorrow and greatly shift the dynamics of the new car market.

If the government is going to intervene in the market with incentives to promote customers to buy a particular product over the others, then you can't have this discussion without involving parliament house, Ford Australia, its Ranger sales and Canberra are joined at the hip.

Yes, its going to effect Toyota and their Hilux sales, but look at Toyota's total sales - not a two horse race like Ford Australia is, they have significantly more sales because they offer 20+ options to our market.

Back in the says of the EF Falcon when Ford Australia were last in number 1, what was the model breakdown of their sales, how many different vehicles did they offer to the market?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s just “noise” that rises up every few years but the truth is that there’s a conspiracy of silence.
It all goes back to when the ATO basically gave up on log book records because of the surveillance costs,
it’s much cheaper for the ATO to accept a statutory declaration for vehicle operators than to
comb through literally millions of manual log books every tax season.

Until there’s some form of enforced electronic gps vehicle monitoring, the system is not going to change.
The UK stopped all of this by making dual cab commercials subject to FBT, only single cab and super cab qualify.


Sorry I missed this the other day. The manual trans battle was lost decades ago and I’m surprised no one noticed..

My comments were both sarcastic and specifically aimed at the complaint of no manual trans Rangers.
Ford don’t care about the manual sales they are missing out on, just the 9,800 odd automatics they sold last month.

Not far away here, in the US they recently introduced mandatory Elogs on all (real) trucks built after 2000. These new logs record everything a gov agency would want. The technology would be easy to introduce to fleet and ABN holders claiming these.

[XR Martin]

Considering how big the aftermarket is around the dual cab market, the Government would wise to consider the impact any tax change wound have.

It employs many thousands of people and contributes probably billions to the economy.
And you've also got the caravan market ontop of that.

You force everyone to drive RAV4 hybrids or Teslas you can kiss all that goodbye.

[XR Martin]

It wasn't long ago the Government tried to ban suspension mods on 4wds, they quickly changed their minds once they realised how many jobs it would effect.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It wasn't long ago the Government tried to ban suspension mods on 4wds, they quickly changed their minds once they realised how many jobs it would effect.

Most cars havent been modded legally. Huge diameter wheels, lift kits, hub spacers, all of which require an engineer's certificate. The police have periodic blitzes in places like Dargo and Walhalla.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

Crazy situation and strange that it couldn't be handled on the ship itself! Some cars made it off the boat and were delivered before the stop.

If they had delivered all the cars, model Y would've been the third highest selling car in Australia!

Turns out Kia has 1000 cars on the same ship.

Kia joins Tesla with cars on infested ship denied entry into Australia

https://www.drive.com.au/news/kia-te...try-australia/

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Turns out Kia has 1000 cars on the same ship.



https://www.drive.com.au/news/kia-te...try-australia/

Must've stopped on the way to Australia. Didn't think Kia built cars for Australia in China. I'm going to blame them lol

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Considering how big the aftermarket is around the dual cab market, the Government would wise to consider the impact any tax change wound have.

It employs many thousands of people and contributes probably billions to the economy.
And you've also got the caravan market ontop of that.

You force everyone to drive RAV4 hybrids or Teslas you can kiss all that goodbye.

They're not going to force anyone to do anything, just like how they don't force you to buy Thailand Specials.

The incentives that make them very attractive to customers, will just disappear.

The other side of your argument, the government doesn't overly care about, we just banned native forest logging in Victoria and they let the manufacturing industry go in 2013 or there about when they signed its death warrant.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Watch what will happen, media scrutiny, the federal government will intervene when there's political pressure around it.

They won't start logbooks, they'll just remove the tax advantages on Thailand Specials.

All it takes is a stroke of a pen and the party ends and that pen is getting closer and closer to being picked up, just like bringing forward the review of the Australian Standards on fuel quality and investigating the introduction of mandatory fuel efficiency standards.

kevino wasn't talking about manual Rangers, he's been a constant customer of Ford for their manual small Euro hatchbacks over the years, then they stopped offering manual euro hatchbacks, so he went to Skoda, then he's come back under the Ford brand with a DSG Puma with gritted teeth

Same as my family, went to Hyundai as Ford no longer offers new cars that my family buys.

Losing a lot of little sales here and there, thats how you end up being a car company that sells two vehicles, of which the biggest seller the customers are being incentivised by tax advantages, which can disappear tomorrow and greatly shift the dynamics of the new car market.

If the government is going to intervene in the market with incentives to promote customers to buy a particular product over the others, then you can't have this discussion without involving parliament house, Ford Australia, its Ranger sales and Canberra are joined at the hip.

Yes, its going to effect Toyota and their Hilux sales, but look at Toyota's total sales - not a two horse race like Ford Australia is, they have significantly more sales because they offer 20+ options to our market.

Back in the says of the EF Falcon when Ford Australia were last in number 1, what was the model breakdown of their sales, how many different vehicles did they offer to the market?

You’re missing the point,
you can’t remove the tax provision for work related travel and transport of “tools”.<—-LOL, so true

If you make the dual cab Utes non-FBT vehicles, they still are fleet vehicles so it’s back to the 1990s
and 12 weeks of log books to establish business usage and the tax department wading though literally
hundreds and thousands of records trying to find anomalies that are never gonna show…
Everyone has done this dance before, it achieves nothing and just gums up the tax department
with more compliance checkers and costs that probably won’t be recouped…

As I said previously, electronic vehicle monitoring will stop much of this.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Not far away here, in the US they recently introduced mandatory Elogs on all (real) trucks built after 2000. These new logs record everything a gov agency would want. The technology would be easy to introduce to fleet and ABN holders claiming these.

Good, something like that for people claiming 100% business use is needed,
they could geofence the person’s home suburb to permit a small amount of
incidental travelling outside of normal work hours, anything else should need
to be justified as either out of hours work/travel or non-business use.

Technology is the answer, those cheating the system will give up when
electric travel records are required and they can’t cook the books.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Good, something like that for people claiming 100% business use is needed,
they could geofence the person’s home suburb to permit a small amount of
incidental travelling outside of normal work hours, anything else should need
to be justified as either out of hours work/travel or non-business use.

Technology is the answer, those cheating the system will give up when
electric travel records are required and they can’t cook the books.

Yeah all well and good.
Before that expands across the board to private vehicle and taxes you certain amounts for geofenced areas. Think ULEZ, limits on daily/weekly kms etc.
We are in a climate emergency don’t you know.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by b0son

Most cars havent been modded legally. Huge diameter wheels, lift kits, hub spacers, all of which require an engineer's certificate. The police have periodic blitzes in places like Dargo and Walhalla.

There's a lot more to the dualcab aftermarket than just suspension

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by smoo

Yeah all well and good.
Before that expands across the board to private vehicle and taxes you certain amounts for geofenced areas. Think ULEZ, limits on daily/weekly kms etc.
We are in a climate emergency don’t you know.

Absolutely, they could even do it with with an E tag set up and charge people
for zones travelled at whatever times of the day…..