4 young teens lost their lives last night because the driver was showing off

[Casper]

Well, as hard as it is to accept, all of us “horrible and biased” full license holders have already gone through the whole P Plate deal and actually do know what’s going on. Admittedly we (us of the 70’s and 80’s) didn’t get the same persecution as current P Platers from police and the media. We got a different persecution entirely. Why would a policeman bother to write out an unroadworthy ticket when it was so much more fun to give the driver a nice beating, take his keys and through them into the grass and make them walk home. Don’t think that stuff happened? Trust me…it did… LOTS.

In the end we of the full license have done our time, survived (for good or bad) and eventually, with a bit of luck, those of you who are on P Plates will make it too. Restrictions to P Platers are pretty unrealistic in most practical applications but, at the risk of sounding harsh, I’ve been there, done that, and have to say that any restriction put in place will probably not make a difference……….. and has no effect on me.

It’s a sad fact of life that stupid is as stupid does and horror stories like this will continue on indefinitely.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by Casper

It’s a sad fact of life that stupid is as stupid does and horror stories like this will continue on indefinitely.

Unfortunately, that is what it comes down too.

I have to agree with bindi's post on the condition of the roads. City highways and such are great, but once you start to head out a little it degrades VERY quickly.

I'd really like to see enforced driver training, starting off with a compulsory training sesssion for ALL currently licenced drivers : I have only attended motorcycle training courses, but all the same they are a big eye opener and very informative and beneficial!

[BA GT-HO]

Condition of the road is no excuse.

Drive to the conditions not the posted limit or above it.

Sadly I know a few people that may wind up like these 4 one day due to inexperience and pure arrogence. They will never change. One of them hit a tree head on when I was in the car and that still hasn't calmed him down. Needless to say I don't ride in his car anymore..

[bindi]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Condition of the road is no excuse.

Drive to the conditions not the posted limit or above it.

Ahhh bullshyte We drove on up to Forster a while back, and good grief it was horrendous. It didn't help that it was late at night. No signage to tell us a corner was coming up, the road was like the top of lego blocks all pushed together, no marked lines, barely any streetlights... and it was signposted at 100kph!

It's all good and well if you're a local because you get to know the road. But even then it'd be dangerous. There were bits where there was an unmarked corner on the edge of a cliff - miss it, and you'd drop from a fair height and into a lake ffs. No railing, nothing.

Don't think for a second that ppl can't have accidents cos of a pothole they didn't see.

[RED_EL_XR8]

No fertiliser about it lady, you should drive to the conditions at hand! (and be polite to other posters.)
If the road is a goat track you treat it accordingly. The roads are no excuse, and the are no excuse for the government neglect that's let them get that way.

Much of the Pacific Highway is unsafe at 80kph let alone the 100 posted. Yet a duel lane divided carriageway on the Hume get the same 100 posted, go figure.

It's a very rare occasion that a missed pothole etc was the cause, and it is never entirely the cause.

As for the "its alright in the city" there are enough pics of bent rims in here to say that's not the case either.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

No fertiliser about it lady, you should drive to the conditions at hand! (and be polite to other posters.)
If the road is a goat track you treat it accordingly. The roads are no excuse, and the are no excuse for the government neglect that's let them get that way.

Much of the Pacific Highway is unsafe at 80kph let alone the 100 posted. Yet a duel lane divided carriageway on the Hume get the same 100 posted, go figure.

It's a very rare occasion that a missed pothole etc was the cause, and it is never entirely the cause.

As for the "its alright in the city" there are enough pics of bent rims in here to say that's not the case either.

I think it is still an issue that concerns many motorists, and is taken far too lightly, atleast by the Bracks government! And bindi is raising plenty of valid points.... you can't mark a road 100kph and not warn people or appropriately mark a 40kph corner coming up.

I don't know if your "it's alright in the city" statement was in response to my comment, but you are right. And I clearly stated only highways and other such major roads are consistently in good order and nice and smooth. There are plenty of roads below acceptable condition around Melbourne that i've driven on.

[98AUXR6]

Originally Posted by Casper

Well, as hard as it is to accept, all of us “horrible and biased” full license holders have already gone through the whole P Plate deal and actually do know what’s going on. Admittedly we (us of the 70’s and 80’s) didn’t get the same persecution as current P Platers from police and the media. We got a different persecution entirely. Why would a policeman bother to write out an unroadworthy ticket when it was so much more fun to give the driver a nice beating, take his keys and through them into the grass and make them walk home. Don’t think that stuff happened? Trust me…it did… LOTS.

In the end we of the full license have done our time, survived (for good or bad) and eventually, with a bit of luck, those of you who are on P Plates will make it too. Restrictions to P Platers are pretty unrealistic in most practical applications but, at the risk of sounding harsh, I’ve been there, done that, and have to say that any restriction put in place will probably not make a difference……….. and has no effect on me.

It’s a sad fact of life that stupid is as stupid does and horror stories like this will continue on indefinitely.

All true. But if we just accept things, the toll will continue. Mind you, something is working. There are less road deaths now than 20 years ago. Amazing considering the exponential number of cars on the road. Of course roads ARE better now and cars are much better. From what I understand, the lowering death rate is across the board.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Very unfortunate event and it sucks to be their family right now.

Good news is that's one less of 'those types' off our roads. Those types who will never learn, those types who see every stint behind the wheel as a chance to show off/compete, those types who probably DO consider the family of their passengers and still say "who cares?". Such a shame innocents had to be a part of this lesson in natural selection. There are no excuses - enough people die on the roads as a result of innocent/unfortunate mistakes... how someone could turn the odds against themself to such a high degree is beyond me.

And i mean no disrespect to families of those no longer here - but its also a stark lesson in being a wise passenger. If a driver has such a reputation - i'd rather walk home. We all have the ability to make choices in this life. If you're lucky - you get away with the bad calls.

Horrible things (cars) when you think about it...

[gmkila]

the only decent road in the city is albert park and onlt the bits that they use for the f1, funny how the roads they make a load of money on are the ones that are in good condition, this goverment is only interested in making money and could care less about the state of our roads here in melbourne, i personaly am sick of the state of our roads and if fixed will result in less accidents, either way there are some diks out there that dont know or cant judge when to stop and take it easy. no one should die on the road especially innocent passengers.

[slim]

Originally Posted by back2thefutura\

Dont go painting everybody with the idiot brush. This tool was showing off, he deserved it, those in the car didnt. I wonder if they asked him to slow down though? Not suggesting anything, just wondering.

That's a bit harsh,he's a tool for sure but no one DESERVES to die because they were young and done something stupid

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by slim

That's a bit harsh,he's a tool for sure but no one DESERVES to die because they were young and done something stupid

tell that to the victims parents and friends and see the responce you get

[bindi]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

No fertiliser about it lady, you should drive to the conditions at hand! (and be polite to other posters.)

Oh Red darlin, I was being polite... hence the smiley face If I had wanted to be rude, he would've known about it lol.

And yes, the governments should be fixing our roads to make them at least driveable... I'm not saying that it's the only factor in car accidents at all, I am saying that it is one that is rarely mentioned, because who would be blamed?

Have you ever been around a corner that, instead of leaning at the right angle and almost "hugging" the car, it actually leans the opposite way and you feel the car is about to go off the edge? They can build racetrack corners with the right lean, to propel the car through sheer gravity and physics in the right direction, but they can't build a road corner to help save our lives.

Even though they can lose a taxpayer through a car accident, that doesn't seem to make them spend more money to fix the messes that are our roads.

Nor do they ever stop blaming speed either... which is yet again one of many factors in an accident - but it may not be the only one.

Have you ever almost shed a tear for your suspension and rims as you hit yet another huge pothole that almost knocks the steering wheel out of your hands with force, because of the depth and severity of the hole? Friggin OUCH.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by bindi

Oh Red darlin, I was being polite... hence the smiley face If I had wanted to be rude, he would've known about it lol.

And yes, the governments should be fixing our roads to make them at least driveable... I'm not saying that it's the only factor in car accidents at all, I am saying that it is one that is rarely mentioned, because who would be blamed?

Have you ever been around a corner that, instead of leaning at the right angle and almost "hugging" the car, it actually leans the opposite way and you feel the car is about to go off the edge? They can build racetrack corners with the right lean, to propel the car through sheer gravity and physics in the right direction, but they can't build a road corner to help save our lives.

Even though they can lose a taxpayer through a car accident, that doesn't seem to make them spend more money to fix the messes that are our roads.

Nor do they ever stop blaming speed either... which is yet again one of many factors in an accident - but it may not be the only one.

Have you ever almost shed a tear for your suspension and rims as you hit yet another huge pothole that almost knocks the steering wheel out of your hands with force, because of the depth and severity of the hole? Friggin OUCH.

i hear ya bindi, don't know why you can't sue for damages done to your car due to hitting a pothole.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by bindi

Have you ever been around a corner that, instead of leaning at the right angle and almost "hugging" the car, it actually leans the opposite way and you feel the car is about to go off the edge? .

Umm no, I have actual working brakes, shock absorbers and suspension! :hihi: All valuable safety features.

[gozza]

i'm been a f&ckin idiot on the roads....when i got my license everywhere i went was full throttle...30k's over the speed limit..etc etc...after losing 11 points..goin to court and having 2 accidents ive calmed my sh!t down...i still can't resist putting the foot down...but i don't drift or drive fast around corners...just straight line acceleration...

as for barring this and barring that...how bout the fukin goverment make sure the drivers that are gettting licensed are capable..ie defensive driving made compulsory...get a syke check to make sure the drivers mind is capable....i may have been a hoon and still "hoon" from time to time but jeesus .. the amount of retarded drivers on the road that "nearly cause accidents from been a bad driver is rediculous....
most "hoons" have well maintained cars that they know how to drive inside and out and appreciate em in every way...thus not wanting to hurt in under any circumstances

[gozza]

should have been **** IVE not IM

[Phillo62]

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Scuse me? Im a teenager (just) and I drive at night with the most important passenger of all (gf), and Im quite safe thanks. Statements like that are what I would expect from Mike Munro or Ray Martin.

Dont go painting everybody with the idiot brush. This tool was showing off, he deserved it, those in the car didnt. I wonder if they asked him to slow down though? Not suggesting anything, just wondering.

Ill go on and back u up there back2thefuture, i am also a p-plater, and i dont wish to be tarnished with the idiot brush either, Not all of us are dickheads. Most of my friends drive caustiously on the road because they owe a duty of care to all others on the road. I am also a cautious driver at all times. The only time i speed is on the track, I dont fry my tyres much, it wrecks my car, which i have paid good money for, and i dont want to just go and blow it all away because some of my drunk mates are urging me on. I tell them to get a cab if they dont shut up when im driving. : :jab:
Cheers

Philthy

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by gozza

get a syke check to make sure the drivers mind is capable....

yep. That would have been a very very very good idea.

[Paris Hilton]

ssj_jaypee, my condolences for your brother, your girlfriend, and anyone else involved.

[XD 351 Ute]

Sad to see another what appeared to be a neat Ford bite the dust.
Even sadder to see the loss of young lives that went with it.
Condolences to all involved.

The odd part is that these incidences will not stop, regardless of whatever issue/item is banned, controlled, or curfewed, etc.

It all comes back to the person behind the wheel.

Sure, peer group pressure & zillions of other factors can make it tough to do the right thing, but in the end the person in control has to take responsibility for their actions.

I've been there and had my big prang, done some stupid things & lived to tell the tale.
Even though I didn't physically hurt anyone apart from myself, I have to live with what I've done.

It changed my life for the worse, and I never stop thinking about it, as there is always a small reminder somewhere to bring it all back.

Ed

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by ssj_jaypee

Goes to show that teenagers shouldn't be allowed to drive at night or with passengers.

Sorry, just because one ******** goes and makes an idiot of himself doesn't mean I should come out of it with restrictions.

Sounds like a dead set ****er. Doesn't sound like the others are that cluely, I know if I was in a car with a driver just onto his P's and he was doing 150 kph I'd be telling him to pull the f*** over and let me out.

Until they figure out how to shock new drivers into realising they aren't invincible this will go one. The first big crash is usually enough of a shock if your IQ is higher than your shoe size, but a lot of people don't walk away from that first one.

[Matto_84]

They cant just come out and Ban P platers from driving at night, as for me I work and use a work car and sometimes have to go home or from jobs at night time or very early in the morning. Imagine what this would have dont to my job if I was on my P's and this happened I would probably have lost my job thanks to all the smart asses out there.

As for bad drivers, I have seen all sorts. Taxi drivers ( without passengers usually). Truckies that sit right up your **** in the left hand lane even when your already 5 kmh over the speed limit, old guys, old ladies, young, middle aged and all. Take my boss for instance he sits on the Western Ring road at 130 - 140 kmh in some sections and he is in his 60's. He may have some more experiance under his belt but this wont mean he wont ever have an accident and possibly kill somebody.

And for being smart when your young.. I think everyone has been. I admit I sometimes was myself and sometimes even though nothing bad happened I have some regrets of doing stupid things.

An simply banning the P platers at night wont mean nothing.. They will just be 10 times worse when they get off their P's and can show off with their mates in cars.

I also have something to say about some coppers out there... If any on this forum tell your fellow coppers that you guys dont always show the best way to do things. I have been cut off by 2 cop cars and 2 totally different areas. Went down the freeway following a cop car at 130kmh!!!.. So I decided to stick behind him at the time and do the same thing. Some coppers are not very good role models.. Some of them also think they are invincable and think because they are cops they can do what the heck they like wherever and whenever they want.

[*rayman*]

Here's the link for the local paper online covering the article if anyone is interested:
http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.a...E14787,00.html

I've never met the guy who owns the car, but i can tell you i noticed the car driving around on thursday or friday down the road from my work, (recognise the car by the paint, and colour of the simmons on it) feeding it through a small roundabout, remember thinking thats a tidy falcon, pity about the way it's getting treated, and looks like he cant drive cause it has a stock unpainted bumper on it when the rest has a bodykit and colour coded.

The road where this accident happened is very ordinary, although i dont think it's grounds to blame the accident on. All north qld roads are e. You guys down south complaining about bad roads really dont know how lucky you are sometimes.

[ssj_jaypee]

Originally Posted by Selekta

ssj_jaypee, my condolences for your brother, your girlfriend, and anyone else involved.

Thank you. I was talking to my girl last night, she couldn't stop crying on the phone made me sick inside. :(

[Hank the Deuce]

Originally Posted by ssj_jaypee

I still do burnouts, speed, drag race, etc.
But I'm smart enough to not do these things while I have passengers or when its not safe to do so. Thats the difference.

Most of us here would've done similar at varying stages I would opine (and I will admit to my share of youthful stupidity, back in the days)... but define "safe to do so".

It doesn't take much of a change in driving environment to render a "safe" situation absolutely lethal. There have been plenty of people killed on racetracks, in "controlled" conditions, let alone in a situation where anything could casually stroll, fly or fall into your path (ever seen a car hit a cow?).

I grew up on a particularly vile stretch of National Highway 1, where we had at least one large (and generally fatal) road smash within 100 metres of our driveway each year during the 80's, invloving vehicles of all shapes and sizes, and none of these accidents ever occurred for reasons which anyone would ever consider fair and just reason to lose a loved one. There were always "if only"s and plenty of blame to be apportioned... none of which could ever put spilt milk back in a bottle.

When I was a teenager (last century), I read a book by Frank Gardner called "Drive to Survive"... if you (a general "you" to all, this one) do nothing more with regard to driving self-education, read this book - it's not going to turn a novice into a World Champion, but it doesn't pretend to either - and that's not what it's about anyway.

To you ssj_jaypee, and anyone else reading this, who have lost loved ones in this tragedy, my sincere condolences. As tragic as it is to have undeserving young and vibrant people's lives stolen from them in this fashion, the greater sadness is for those left behind, whose friends and family have been suddenly torn from the page of their lives.

[Velociraptor]

Originally Posted by slim

That's a bit harsh,he's a tool for sure but no one DESERVES to die because they were young and done something stupid

I like to call it natural selection.

[Shonky]

Sorry guys. Got a little fired up...

I just get annoyed when other peoples stupidity tarnishes the good name of those of us who do love our cars and would do anything to hurt them. I do speed, when it is safe to do so, but certainly not at any where near those speeds. I doubt any one here could claim that they ALWAYS follow even the stupidist of speed limits.

Regardless of my driving habits and my attitude, I overstepped the line and I shouldn't have. My apologies and condolences ssj.

I think I'll just watch this one. Everytime the P-plater argument comes up, I end up getting arc-ed up at someone.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Young 'un

Sorry guys. Got a little fired up...

.................

I think I'll just watch this one. Everytime the P-plater argument comes up, I end up getting arc-ed up at someone.

Just one pink avatar and your a model citizen, make your mother and your youth group proud. lol..

Your right, sometimes it's best to step away, something I and others need to remember too at times..

[SunDrifter]

Forget age, forget banning people from having passangers or driving at night. It may help, but it would be a cure worse then the disease.

I think the motorcycle rules should be applied to cars. When you get your learner and provisional licence, you have to have a restricted (type) bike (in qld 250cc or smaller), when you get your open licence, your welcome to have whatever you like.

Sure, you can still get fast fours, but its surely going to decrease the risk substantially.

I would support a ban on High output cars for L and P plate drivers. (You don't have the real world road experience guys and gals, despite whatever you think.)

<edit>Yes I owned a motorcycle, a 250cc and then a 600cc. If i had of had the 600 first, i probably wouldn't be here.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by SunDrifter

I would support a ban on High output cars for L and P plate drivers. (You don't have the real world road experience guys and gals, despite whatever you think.)

so please explain, at what age exactly do you suddenly accuire this world road experience??