English at Schools - Page 3

XRchic · 12-02-2007, 10:07 PM

I think some people are under the impression that people are "having a go" at teachers in this thread. I would like to point out, that I for one, was most definitely NOT! I think I stated that at least once myself, and I have not seen anyone else in here doing that either - analysing the capabilities of teachers today is a fair thing to do, and in our society, required. As a parent I will always analyse the capabilities of the people who teach my children, and importantly, analyse them in the context of the current education system, policies and politics generally. There is no blame to be attached to any individual I dont think, teacher or otherwise. It is a range of things combined. And analyse them I will, as the education of my children is important.

If calling it as I see it makes me on a "high horse" then so be it. I would rather be aware and be able to make a judgement regarding what is best for my kids than remain happy in my ignorance.

I also note that a few have commented that parents have escaped responsibility in this thread. I disagree with that also. I did point out that indeed parents have a massive responsibility towards the education of their children. That is connected to the point above, in that parents SHOULD analyse, question and examine the education system their children are involved in and make decisions on that basis. It is a poor parent who does not make judgements about those issues.

I also think parents are responsible for their kids' futures in many ways. I think parents need to make sure their kids attend school, make sure they do their homework, and help them with it. Parents need to make sure their kids read at home - my kids read to each other, read to us and they also now read to their baby brother who is 10 months old today, and who loves being read to. Parents need to encourage their children to love books - not just reading, but reading real books. Get to know what interests them, what they love to learn about and what they want to read about. My son loves reading about science, astronomy and generally non fiction books. My daughter loves fantasy, dragons and books on animals.

Only last weekend we went on a family trip to the local book shop and put a $500 labyby on - there were a few books on the solar system, a big atlas of the universe, one on the big bang theory, a book about weather, a book about exotic cats, a fantasy novel, a set of books on wizards, demons, dragons, pirates and something else I cant remember, a book about the theories and science behind the show CSI, the Guiness World Records 2007 and Ripleys Believe it or Not. I think there were others. Quite a bizarre range, but they love them. Most of the books are home now, and they have taken them all out to show their friends in the street and some of their mates think they are strange, and some find the books equally fascinating.

We just have one big family book case where we have a huge variety of books for everyone and they are well worn. My kids love reading them, and my baby son will too. I think this is something important that a parent can do... teach them to love reading. I cant stress enough how important that is for kids these days, not only for literacy but for general knowledge education and its just food for their brains.

So yes, I absolutely agree that parents are responsible for their kids learning, in so many ways, but I think a good parent should always question the education system too, as long as it is fair.

This post may, as I said, make me seem like I am on a high horse and if people choose to think that, so be it. Im sorry if I dont want my children to end up spelling and writing like some Ive seen on here, that may seem elitist and judgemental. But at the end of the day, my kids are my priority and I want them to experience life, learn about lots of things, experience the wonder of learning new and amazing facts and just want to keep on learning....

Sorry this is a bit long too, but it is something I believe in. I wont necessarily succeed in my hopes for my kids, but I can try and that's all a parent can do really.

Work Horse · 13-02-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

I think some people are under the impression that people are "having a go" at teachers in this thread. I would like to point out, that I for one, was most definitely NOT! I think I stated that at least once myself, and I have not seen anyone else in here doing that either - analysing the capabilities of teachers today is a fair thing to do, and in our society, required. As a parent I will always analyse the capabilities of the people who teach my children, and importantly, analyse them in the context of the current education system, policies and politics generally. There is no blame to be attached to any individual I dont think, teacher or otherwise. It is a range of things combined. And analyse them I will, as the education of my children is important.

If calling it as I see it makes me on a "high horse" then so be it. I would rather be aware and be able to make a judgement regarding what is best for my kids than remain happy in my ignorance.

I also note that a few have commented that parents have escaped responsibility in this thread. I disagree with that also. I did point out that indeed parents have a massive responsibility towards the education of their children. That is connected to the point above, in that parents SHOULD analyse, question and examine the education system their children are involved in and make decisions on that basis. It is a poor parent who does not make judgements about those issues.

I also think parents are responsible for their kids' futures in many ways. I think parents need to make sure their kids attend school, make sure they do their homework, and help them with it. Parents need to make sure their kids read at home - my kids read to each other, read to us and they also now read to their baby brother who is 10 months old today, and who loves being read to. Parents need to encourage their children to love books - not just reading, but reading real books. Get to know what interests them, what they love to learn about and what they want to read about. My son loves reading about science, astronomy and generally non fiction books. My daughter loves fantasy, dragons and books on animals.

Only last weekend we went on a family trip to the local book shop and put a $500 labyby on - there were a few books on the solar system, a big atlas of the universe, one on the big bang theory, a book about weather, a book about exotic cats, a fantasy novel, a set of books on wizards, demons, dragons, pirates and something else I cant remember, a book about the theories and science behind the show CSI, the Guiness World Records 2007 and Ripleys Believe it or Not. I think there were others. Quite a bizarre range, but they love them. Most of the books are home now, and they have taken them all out to show their friends in the street and some of their mates think they are strange, and some find the books equally fascinating.

We just have one big family book case where we have a huge variety of books for everyone and they are well worn. My kids love reading them, and my baby son will too. I think this is something important that a parent can do... teach them to love reading. I cant stress enough how important that is for kids these days, not only for literacy but for general knowledge education and its just food for their brains.

So yes, I absolutely agree that parents are responsible for their kids learning, in so many ways, but I think a good parent should always question the education system too, as long as it is fair.

This post may, as I said, make me seem like I am on a high horse and if people choose to think that, so be it. Im sorry if I dont want my children to end up spelling and writing like some Ive seen on here, that may seem elitist and judgemental. But at the end of the day, my kids are my priority and I want them to experience life, learn about lots of things, experience the wonder of learning new and amazing facts and just want to keep on learning....

Sorry this is a bit long too, but it is something I believe in. I wont necessarily succeed in my hopes for my kids, but I can try and that's all a parent can do really.

Two words, point form or didn't they teach you that at sckol :evil3:

Work Horse · 13-02-2007, 12:36 AM

On topic, my wife is a primary school teacher so are many of our good friends. If you are having trouble with reading and writing at secondary school it is already too late.

As I believe has already been indicate; reading, a lot, early and often is the key for most kids.

Standards are changing, what has to be taught increases every year. New governments chuck out what is being done and replace it with a "better" system like they promised. The curriculum is full, if you wish to include more reading and spelling or whatever at school what do you take out?

Don't get me wrong the system and teachers are not perfect, and we should always strive to improve things. Good teachers, good parents, well funded schools would be a start.

Yellow_Festiva · 13-02-2007, 08:14 AM

Ok I'll say a few words if I may

I'm a chalky of primary school and have been for 5 years now.

I think the problem is not just as simple as ramming English skills down kids throats, and to realy compare English ability now to even 20 years ago is just plain foolish given how things have changed.

We now live in a society where technology helps us out all the time now. We can type a letter with little or no knowledge of the correct format, and not have a clue on how to spell as the computer will do that for us now. No point complaining about it, that's just the way it is.

So whats changed? Schools are getting softer on students, that is for certain however teachers now need to teach a load more subjects as well as sports and other more social skills that one would assume were taught / learnt at home in an ideal world.

Then there is the idea that everybody MUST be able to write and read like a professional. There are students who basically "just don't get it" and never will. It pains me at times to watch a class of bright sparks nodding their heads in understanding with what i'm teaching and then see the 2 or 3 students who don't have the brain power to do anything over year 4 English.

English is the same as maths, some are equipped mentally to do 3 and 4 unit Maths or Physics, while others are happy, or know they havn't got the ability to do anything more than a basic unit. So why be harsh on them?

Hmmmm I'm not happy that a person mentioned previously that a teacher couldn't spell a word. Shock Horror!! There is not a week that goes past where im teaching and I don't refer to a dictionary to correctly spell an unexpected word thats thrown at me in a class discussion. I would rather do than than spell the word wrong and get pointed out by a student.

Last time I went to my doctor his office must have had 200 plus reference books, my solicitor would have even more. Do we assume that these lernered people know 100% of everything that there is to know about their profession? Of course not!

Cheers!

Jason

lukey · 13-02-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

I'm not trying to be a smartass because you can look back at my previous posts. I am one to use poor spelling and rarely use capitals so I think I can safely point out to you that if you are going to preach like that you should really check your spelling. There are so many words in your post that have been shortend with slang.

I think you missed my point. I don't expect everyone to spell correctly 100% and I'm sure I don't do this myself. But going to the effort of doing it correctly is what I'm talking about...

xbgs351 · 17-02-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

xbgs351.. YOU started this thread, and I SO agree that it's a dilema! What's YOUR solution?
I see the dilema being an indication of technology's evolution having accelerated way faster than the average "Joe Blow's" ability to handle it all.
Similar to the "rich get richer" and "poor get poorer".
Only, with the technology scenario, we are looking at 2 distinct classes of people.. Those with superior intelligence & ability Vs. those with average interlect and capabilities.
The gap has ever widened between the rich Vs poor... Hasn't it?
I see the same happening with education.
Where as once it was a reasonably even "playing field" for all at school, now it's those that show ability that are nutured.. The others.. "Who cares"! Scrapheap!

It's impossible to find a solution if the cause is not known. That was one of the reasons that I created this thread.

I tend to disagree with your technology vs "rich get richer" and "poor get poorer" analogy. Those that should be best equiped to use computers are the ones that grew up with computers. Most recent school leavers should fall into this category, however it appears that these same school leavers are the ones having the greatest problems with English, not those of us who first started using computers in our adult lives.

Falchoon · 17-02-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

We now live in a society where technology helps us out all the time now. We can type a letter with little or no knowledge of the correct format, and not have a clue on how to spell as the computer will do that for us now. No point complaining about it, that's just the way it is.

So why do people still write/type with incorrect spelling and grammer? No excuse. You could accept, to an extent, if people were writing color instead of colour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Then there is the idea that everybody MUST be able to write and read like a professional.

Not expecting people to be professional, just to have a reasonable grasp of spelling and grammer. I'm certainly no professional. I think the highest grade I attained at school was a C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Last time I went to my doctor his office must have had 200 plus reference books, my solicitor would have even more. Do we assume that these lernered people know 100% of everything that there is to know about their profession? Of course not!

Being a Doctor or a Lawyer is a lot different to having basic English language skills. Though saying this I have dealt with some incompetent Doctors and Lawyers in my time. Depending on the subject and the level of teaching I wouldn't expect a teacher to need 200 reference books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Only the other day I confused the hell out of a young cashier, by handing over a $50 note plus $1.35c in coin for items totalling $21.35. I ended up just taking my coins back and accepting the change from $50 as it was all just WAY TOO hard for her to fathom!

Done that before too on several occasions. I don't bother trying to "help" the cashiers any more as it just confuses them more! :togo:

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

She should have given you $30 change, right?

That comment was tongue in cheek, right?

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