Covid 19 -

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

....gotta wonder what made him pack up the family and head West....

People tend to make drastic life changes for career or to get away from people around them (aka lifestyle changes). Haven't cared too much for politics until the pandemic hit, so had actually never heard of him. But I like what I see. Seems like a straight shooter, doesn't use weasel words, what he says has substance, is a doer, looks after his people and the people trust him. Sounds like a leader, whats not to like?

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Overseas Australians could face jail for trying to come home

Wow. Locking borders and issuing heavy fines is one thing, but jailing our own citizens for entering the country?...hmmmmm. People please don't read this as being negative or a criticism of the feds. I'm just trying to imagine someone having to declare in their next job interview "Yes I have a criminal conviction, spent a few years in jail, for trying to enter my own country".


US has now closed their borders to India. Has NZ done the same? What about UK? Just curious about these countries as that's probably where most of our arrivals are coming from now?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Yes the lastest CommSec data released a few days ago says WA has moved 3 spots up in the last quarter, and Tasmania is still on top. 5 quarters in a row.

I saw that. Very surprising Vic is above both NSW and QLD in the overall score. Very surprising QLD is down the bottom. I believe quite a few NSW and VIC residents have moved up north, and QLD has seen the biggest population growth. Next two quarters will be interesting as the end of Job Keeper should have kicked in.

The rhetoric that Vic would fall off a cliff hasn't occurred......yet.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

People tend to make drastic life changes for career or to get away from people around them (aka lifestyle changes). Haven't cared too much for politics until the pandemic hit, so had actually never heard of him. But I like what I see. Seems like a straight shooter, doesn't use weasel words, what he says has substance, is a doer, looks after his people and the people trust him. Sounds like a leader, whats not to like?

It was just an observation and a purely rhetorical question, I neither stated I didn't like or dislike him nor needed an explanation as to why people move around, I'm from WA originally and have lived in the NT, Tas, Vic & Qld, I think I have a handle on that

[FairmontGS]

Mistakes in Victoria's initial hotel quarantine program put people at risk of contracting HIV

Blood test mistakes put Victorian hotel quarantine guests at risk of contracting HIV, review finds

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...risk/100109402

[FairmontGS]

Perth hotel quarantine guard tests positive for COVID-19, along with two others
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...d-19/100109788

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Wow. Locking borders and issuing heavy fines is one thing, but jailing our own citizens for entering the country?...hmmmmm. People please don't read this as being negative or a criticism of the feds. I'm just trying to imagine someone having to declare in their next job interview "Yes I have a criminal conviction, spent a few years in jail, for trying to enter my own country".


US has now closed their borders to India. Has NZ done the same? What about UK? Just curious about these countries as that's probably where most of our arrivals are coming from now?

Do you think the Feds might have got the idea from Dan Andrews when he locked Victorians out of their own state.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Do you think the Feds might have got the idea from Dan Andrews when he locked Victorians out of their own state.

Actually that did cross my mind. Despite all the cheap shots and unhelpful commentary during that period, they have now followed the same tact. Hypocrisy metre is through the roof. (Yes that is a criticism). But, credit where its due, they saw that it worked and have now followed (that is a compliment). Victoria had fines and checkpoints, but I can't remember if there was threat of jail time. If there was, then I would have to disagree with the jail time component. Convictions with possibility of jail time has huge ramifications for individual's future e.g. employment, travel etc. I think the threat of a $66,000 fine should be sufficient. If someone is willing to risk $66k to come back, then we should probably really help them. But that is just my opinion.

Health experts are now calling for a reset on the quarantine system, as the ban shows the confidence in the hotel quarantine system isn't as strong as some make it out to be.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/i...01-p57o0f.html

EDIT:
I thought this quote was interesting.

A federal government spokesperson said people could still return to Australia from India,” they just can’t come back directly without having been outside India for the previous 14 days.”

US and UK have closed their borders with India, however there are exemptions for citizens and residents. If they have dual citizenship with UK, I'm assuming they can't have a 3rd with Australia? and therefore can't come back anyway?

[Citroënbender]

The adjunct to criminalisation of returning “home” is the risk of deportation for convicted then jailed over 12 months for this specific offence, people who have taken citizenship (as opposed to involuntary acquisition).

I think it’s immoral for a government to treat citizens in this way. Next they will be proposing reeducation camps for groups identified as they see fit.

[Gothefalcon]

The very idea of punishing Australian Citizens for trying to come back to Australia is absurd and obscene !

The Federal Govt. should have been building quarantine centres to house larger volumes of return Citizens etc, since at least mid last year.
The Medi-hotel arrangements should have only ever been a stop-gap measure until such quarantine centres were up and running.

The propensity for other serious virus outbreaks in the future has been widely noted by the scientific community, and even if they don't become global pandemics, these centres could still be used for dealing with Australian Citizens who need to leave those areas (for their own health safety) going forward.

Had the Federal Govt. established quarantine centres (similar to how Howard Springs in the NT is now used) already and as recommended by the very same scientists and medical experts we've been relying on from the start, then this issue of how to prevent Australian Citizens from coming home from global hot-spots wouldn't even have to be contemplated.

Not to be misunderstood... I believe that overall, the Federal & State Govt's have done a great job controlling the spread of the COVID 19 virus within our shores (with the support and efforts of the majority of Australians, of course). Though not perfect... compared to the outcomes of other countries, Australia's position is globally enviable !
However... The Federal Govt. has failed to deal with ensuring Australian Citizens have a clear and safe pathway to return home as quickly as possible.

Think about it... if your kids were overseas at massive risk, you'd expect that the Federal Govt. would be doing everything it can to bring them home to safety ! Building quarantine centres to handle the capacity would allow this to happen, without too great a risk to the rest of us already here.
Instead... the Federal Govt. shuts the gate and says... we'll get back to you when we think it looks ok for you to come home again... you're on your own, good luck ! Oh... and by the way... we know you're desperate, but if you try to get back some other way... we'll fine you and/or stick you in jail for 6yrs !

An absolute embarrassment !

D

[Tickford.]

Maybe he was called upon by God to do his work by closing the borders to India, and let Australians get sick and/or die over there??

Blaming others and making them suffer/pay for his own failures is now his go to tactic.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Actually that did cross my mind. Despite all the cheap shots and unhelpful commentary during that period, they have now followed the same tact. Hypocrisy metre is through the roof. (Yes that is a criticism). But, credit where its due, they saw that it worked and have now followed (that is a compliment). Victoria had fines and checkpoints, but I can't remember if there was threat of jail time. If there was, then I would have to disagree with the jail time component. Convictions with possibility of jail time has huge ramifications for individual's future e.g. employment, travel etc. I think the threat of a $66,000 fine should be sufficient. If someone is willing to risk $66k to come back, then we should probably really help them. But that is just my opinion.

Health experts are now calling for a reset on the quarantine system, as the ban shows the confidence in the hotel quarantine system isn't as strong as some make it out to be.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/i...01-p57o0f.html

EDIT:
I thought this quote was interesting.



US and UK have closed their borders with India, however there are exemptions for citizens and residents. If they have dual citizenship with UK, I'm assuming they can't have a 3rd with Australia? and therefore can't come back anyway?

No threats of gaol with Danny boy only fines and the police did turn around Victorian motorists at the check points trying to gain entry.
Airline passengers were most likely fined if I remembered correctly.
I don't think any magistrate in Australia will gaol any returning Australian, maybe a fine but no gaol time. The Feds are only acting tough for deterrence.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Maybe he was called upon by God to do his work by closing the borders to India, and let Australians get sick and/or die over there??

Blaming others and making them suffer/pay for his own failures is now his go to tactic.

Really! I think you have a twisted mind with your thinking.

[Jack91]

I fully support and appreciate the lock out. Good on em.
Id be even happier if China was added to the no entry list aswell. Not for covid reasons but if they have to say that to get it done then thats cool.

[nstg8a]

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.

You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.

The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.

The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.

Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Actually that did cross my mind. Despite all the cheap shots and unhelpful commentary during that period, they have now followed the same tact. Hypocrisy metre is through the roof. (Yes that is a criticism). But, credit where its due, they saw that it worked and have now followed (that is a compliment). Victoria had fines and checkpoints, but I can't remember if there was threat of jail time. If there was, then I would have to disagree with the jail time component. Convictions with possibility of jail time has huge ramifications for individual's future e.g. employment, travel etc. I think the threat of a $66,000 fine should be sufficient. If someone is willing to risk $66k to come back, then we should probably really help them. But that is just my opinion.

Health experts are now calling for a reset on the quarantine system, as the ban shows the confidence in the hotel quarantine system isn't as strong as some make it out to be.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/i...01-p57o0f.html

EDIT:
I thought this quote was interesting.



US and UK have closed their borders with India, however there are exemptions for citizens and residents. If they have dual citizenship with UK, I'm assuming they can't have a 3rd with Australia? and therefore can't come back anyway?

Have we forgotten that in VIC you could get raided and handcuffed in front of your children in your own house, and taken away for suggesting one facebook others may protest against lockdown?

And someone already got jail time for breaking quarantine in WA, so nothing new there.

If anyone truly believes that there is only 300000-400000 cases a day in India their smartometer is on zero. The same posters would be applauding a Labor government for doing exactly what Morrison has done. According to this site they aonly tested just over 2000000 samples for close to 400000 positives. 20 odd percent positives, versus Australia’s rate of .02%. One thousand times worse. There needs to be a break in people returning from there.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Have we forgotten that in VIC you could get raided and handcuffed in front of your children in your own house, and taken away for suggesting one facebook others may protest against lockdown?

And someone already got jail time for breaking quarantine in WA, so nothing new there.

Arrested and jailed for a couple of nights (not sure if they were?) for breaking quarantine or inciting organising a protest when the virus was running rampant vs being convicted as a criminal and going to prison for 5 years for coming back to your own country.....hmmmm not sure if they are fair comparisons. Well, not for me anyway. I'm ok with the border restrictions and fines.

Not sure why every comparison has to come back to Dan or Vic or whatever. Similar dramatic arrests were happening ALL around the country during their own lock downs, some more publicised than others.

[lumen8]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Do you think the Feds might have got the idea from Dan Andrews when he locked Victorians out of their own state.

SA did that also, so VIC wasn't alone on that one.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT May 1st, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

27 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.056%.

3 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.995% and active cases 23.

The UK had a lower 1,907 cases yesterday and 7 deaths.

Just under 60k new cases in the USA yesterday and 772 deaths sees CMR at 1.782%. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Global cases pass 152M, the last 1M in 2 days;
Global deaths pass 3.2M, the last 50k in 3 days;
Asia passes 40M cases;
South America passes 25M cases;

Only -

Sri Lanka (1,716)
... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Namibia moves above the 90th percentile for their 10 day average and no countries drop below.

India managed to not set a new daily record but the 392,562 cases was still the 2nd highest recorded and their 10-day average is now above 360k / cases per day.

We can see how weather impacts the case numbers which we knew from last year. Europe had a shocking November to January period with daily case numbers averaging almost 220k/day (currently 138k/day) and although that has largely improved there are still some countries above their 90th percentile like France (just), Croatia, Netherlands, Ukraine, Latvia, Germany and Greece.

It's now Asia that is starting to record scary case numbers and even though a lot of that is due to the crisis in India, more than half of the 33 countries I watch closely are above their 90th percentile with several more about to cross that line.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Arrested and jailed for a couple of nights (not sure if they were?) for breaking quarantine or inciting organising a protest when the virus was running rampant vs being convicted as a criminal and going to prison for 5 years for coming back

Yes, a couple of people did actual gaol time for constantly breaking out of their hotel room and falsifying entry papers.
One African/Australian young woman got 6 months, her 2nd time for coming to WA from SA and breaching.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.

You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.

The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.

The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.

Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

Yes it was a good idea back then, NSW had a great quarantine facility up on North Head until it was decided it would better serve as the Big Brother household.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, .........

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...tton/100106962

[Citroënbender]

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.
You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.
The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.
The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.
Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

You are correct... Medi-hotels have done an amazing job, overall.
However... not many hotels are suitable to be utilised this way... in fact, not many in each State are ! The main problems with most of the hotels is the design of the A/C systems, which could actually spread the virus from room to room... the lack of openable windows/balconies/etc so the occupants can get outside air, whilst remaining quarantined... and the limited numbers they can turn over per week.

Howard Springs has individual A/C units per room... people can get outside the rooms, and it's capable of a much, much higher turn-over rate (even more when it's expanded soon)
As pointed out before... to date there have been no breaches from this facility.

The point here is, had the Federal Govt. started constructing quarantine stations in each State mid last year... then thousands more Australian Citizens would have been able to have been processed by now... and the Country would be better placed to deal with the more contagious strains of the virus, as well.

D

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

I just travelled from Sadelaide to Geelong for the Geelong All Ford Day... We had to complete an Vic on-line border pass request to get into Vic... and another SA on-line border pass request, to get back home.
I believe (but don't quote me) that all States except NSW have this arrangement !?? (Happy to be corrected)

Now... no one pulled me over to check I had it... but I believe there may be fines involved, should you be asked and you haven't got one !??

D

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?

And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?

It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.

Imo they are Better off putting those resources into getting the vaccination program back on track. Get the numbers of people vaccinated up and the quarantine centres become largely redundant.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

I believe (but don't quote me) that all States except NSW have this arrangement !?? (Happy to be corrected)

NSW, ACT and QLD have no border pass requirements in place currently for domestic travel. All other States/Territories have some form of registration/border pass systems in place. With WA being the strictest, in that if you are travelling from another State or Territory that has had less than 14 days of no community transmission, you will be required to self-quarantine for 14 days in a suitable premises.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?

And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?

It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.

This was what I referred to; don’t build a squillion dongas, but work out a modular design range that can be re-sold to the community as permanent homes, that meet local council standards for new houses.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

I just travelled from Sadelaide to Geelong for the Geelong All Ford Day... We had to complete an Vic on-line border pass request to get into Vic... and another SA on-line border pass request, to get back home.
I believe (but don't quote me) that all States except NSW have this arrangement !?? (Happy to be corrected)

Now... no one pulled me over to check I had it... but I believe there may be fines involved, should you be asked and you haven't got one !??

D

I travelled (flew) down to Launceston from Bundaberg via Brisbane on the 19th April and had to obtain an online Tas e-Travel QR Code prior to travelling, this was all checked at Launceston Airport on arrival including a temperature check.

On my return flight on the 23rd i was transiting through Melbourne Airport for 45 mins, then on to Brisbane and Bundy, i had to complete an online application for a Victorian Border Travel Permit even though i was not leaving the Airport departure lounge, we all had our permits and ID ready for checking when we landed, we exited the airbridge and nobody was there to check us so i went straight to the gate for my next flight. When completing the online application for the Vic Permit it did say fines could be issued if you tried to enter without a pass.

As far as traveling back into Qld there was no declared COVID-19 hotspots so domestic travellers were not required to complete a Queensland Border Declaration Pass prior to entering Queensland, so no permits or checks.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?
And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?
It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.
Imo they are Better off putting those resources into getting the vaccination program back on track. Get the numbers of people vaccinated up and the quarantine centres become largely redundant.

IMPO, the cost is relative chump-change, compared to the costs of border closures (both State and international) and what cost do you put on human life !??
It's less of a cost outlay... and more an investment into our futures.

As the scientific and medical experts are saying, no Country is safe until all Countries are safe. This will be with us for years, until things like global travel stop being a potential problem.
As the vaccine's effectiveness may only last 12 months (ish).. the global community is probably going to have to be vaccinated a few times before this virus is under effective global control !??
If a new strain manages to evade the effectiveness of the current vaccines, then we'll be playing catch up all over again.

Reportedly... around 36,000 Australian Citizens have been registered to come home for the last year (so far). Despite the 3,000-6000 people (per week) gong through medi-hotels already... this 36,000 registered number hasn't changed. ie: more Aussies are signing up to come home each week.

Agreed though... the vaccine roll out needs to be dealt with more efficiently... but not instead... as well.

D