Major Ford announcement

[Adamz Ghia]

Lets assume Ford built Focus, Falcon, Falcon Ute and Territory here, and they sold 40,000, 15,000, 6000 and 12,000 respectively. You'd assume on Falcons numbers that they would have retired it in 2016 anyways, therefore scrapping the home grown Territory as well. Would the manufacturing plant have survived? I ask as many have blamed the decision to scrap Focus production on the plant closing, in today's climate and with Thailand up the water above us, would it have made a difference...?

[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by ESP

Steve Jobs said something very interesting when designing the iMac / iPhone....something poignant and relevant here.

"people don't know what they want until you show it to them.”

Basically - other manufacturers have been "showing" and "marketing" their products and making the public believe that they "WANT" a sardine tin with front wheel drive.........

Ford locally could have countered by showing them why they don't.......

Yes but that thing they don't know they want has to have some wow factor, something they have never seen before and looks magic in the way it does something normally done other ways.

Sadly the Falcon had none of those qualities. It is a great car, but it is essentially the same now as it was 20 years ago, just incremental improvements.

Look at Fords own European imports and you can see what I mean, the Mondeo is streets ahead of the Falcon. So is the Ranger and their compact SUVs.

The Territitory closely fits the requirement for wow factor, it truely was something people didn't know they wanted till Ford showed them, yet they let it go stale too.

Should have killed Falcon off after BA and just made a line up of Territory with gas, Diesel, V8 and Turbo six. Even an all new platform. Great concept down the drain.

[Orangejuicepony]

Originally Posted by BossBrand

I work at a company in the city and it never ceases to amaze me when i drive into the car park how Aussie cars are hardly owned by affluent city types these days. I'd say over 50% are Euro and the rest Jap, Korean etc.. I am certainly the only one driving a Falcon out of at least 300 cars.. Sad sad

There might be a good reason for that, our company had some BA Falcons, and to be honest they performed great, but they were always being fixed somehow.

Since then we are now running Jap 4WDs (much dearer) but when you factor in the resale they are cheaper, and from memory none of them has had more than an oil change or a new clutch in 250,000kms.

So the perception around here is that the Aus built cars are rubbish compared to Jap, not because of any facts, but becuase of the poor showing they had when we had them, and the good showing our current choices have made on us. Also the customer service of Ford was, um, embarissing. And our current choice actualy make you want to spend money there, whether or not you get any better technical service or not.

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

[FTE]

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

Yes but that thing they don't know they want has to have some wow factor, something they have never seen before and looks magic in the way it does something normally done other ways.

Sadly the Falcon had none of those qualities. It is a great car, but it is essentially the same now as it was 20 years ago, just incremental improvements.

Look at Fords own European imports and you can see what I mean, the Mondeo is streets ahead of the Falcon. So is the Ranger and their compact SUVs.

The Territitory closely fits the requirement for wow factor, it truely was something people didn't know they wanted till Ford showed them, yet they let it go stale too.

Should have killed Falcon off after BA and just made a line up of Territory with gas, Diesel, V8 and Turbo six. Even an all new platform. Great concept down the drain.

That's an interesting idea...the Territory is big, but it's not too big. If it had been marketed cleverly as something like "the new Australian standard", with advertising like they used to have for Falcon and Fairlane showing how it could conquer all sorts of roads an distances that people associate with Australia, maybe it would have taken off.
Concentrate on a powerful 4 cylinder Ecoboost and diesel engines and you would think they'd have been on a winner. Pricing would have to be really sharp to compete with the medium sized SUV's, and maybe that would be the problem. People think about fuel economy and running costs pretty much at the top of the list these days, and some of the new medium SUV's get stupid fuel economy.

Yes you can show people your product, but unless it's markedly better than anything else on the market and is cheaper to buy and own, then you're banging your head against a wall. I think the Falcon was trying too hard to just keep on plugging along on tradition, using "marketing" from thirty years or more ago where people just "naturally" went and bought something big and Australian with a six or V8.
Buyers don't do that anymore, and haven't for some time.

There's also the fact that the Falcon has sort of changed into less of a "car for everyone" to a "car for some people". A lot of the popular models have, for example, wheels, tyres, and ground clearance that limit the range of places they are a practical car, unlike Falcons of the past. Lots of people out here got lease cars that here XR6's and 8's shod with 18's and 19's, and we got the G6E with 19" factory wheels. After a year or two, they usually get rid of them for more practical vehicles...usually pushed to it by damaged wheels, scraped bodywork, and sick of a jiggling ride over even major highways in the state.
The only time our G6E felt "smooth, quiet, and refined" was when we went down to Brisbane and the Gold Coast on the beautiful billiard-table-smooth motorways...on "normal" Queensland highways like the Bruce and Capricorn highways, it was fairly ordinary.
So we faced reality and bought the Triton dual cab ute...it's smoother and more comfortable on the highway, and costs less to register. Many people here are moving on to something other than a Falcon or Commodore, unless they're one of the small number who buy an FPV of some sort, but that's a tiny niche market and no way to keep a company going profitably.

I just saw a short TV advert on the Territory..."seven seats for the price of five"...and while short it was a clever little advert showing why your growing family should buy one. Too little too late though...

[westy73]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

Sadly the Falcon had none of those qualities. It is a great car, but it is essentially the same now as it was 20 years ago, just incremental improvements.

Are you seriously comparing the 1993 Falcon to a 2013 Falcon saying only incremental improvements have been made ??
Now that shows a lack of knowledge about the car and the radical engineering changes since 1993.

Perhaps you mean since 2003 which is 10 years ago as that is when Control Blade was introduced. Even so the car has progressed remarkably since 1993 not incrementally. Chalk and Cheese.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Right, u rationalise your situation with your unloved AU. The FG is the best Falcon ever and the best car Ive ever owned.

Garbage post of the day.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by Orangejuicepony

There might be a good reason for that, our company had some BA Falcons, and to be honest they performed great, but they were always being fixed somehow.

Since then we are now running Jap 4WDs (much dearer) but when you factor in the resale they are cheaper, and from memory none of them has had more than an oil change or a new clutch in 250,000kms.

So the perception around here is that the Aus built cars are rubbish compared to Jap, not because of any facts, but becuase of the poor showing they had when we had them, and the good showing our current choices have made on us. Also the customer service of Ford was, um, embarissing. And our current choice actualy make you want to spend money there, whether or not you get any better technical service or not.

Subseqently our next purchase of cars being discussed right now is already locked to a large jap brand and will be of 4WD variety. Not even the Ranger can convince us of a change, that is why local manufacturing is gone. People were burned and ****ed off, and the huge selection of new cars that emerged stole there buying power, and the superior customer service of some of those brands keeps them there next time around.

A crappy dealership can ruin an entire brands status.

Heard a rather telling story from a friend who worked as a mechanic at a major Ford dealership in Melbourne. They had a new guy start, who had come across from a Mazda dealer after several years.

This new guy could not believe the number of issues that were fixed under warranty on Falcon/Territory, and told my friend "we just never saw these kinds of issues at Mazda".

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Whats wrong with these Rangers?

[GT-spec15]

Keen to hear also.

I know several people with Rangers and they rave about them. When Dad's Navara is due for replacement it'll most likely be a Ranger.

[Anchor]

One guess? They have manuals and are all used to driving sloppy boxes and sliding them into any gear. Most people don't like change.. Especially a direct and short shifting manual gearbox in a 4x4 ute.

[2011G6E]

The only reason we have a Triton instead of a Ranger in the driveway is one thing and one thing only: price. Sixty grand for a Ranger XLT with no other options except for a towbar? Come on...and they knock Toyotas for staggering pricing on their four wheel drives...

[stevz]

Originally Posted by westy73

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

Well said. This country is losing its identity and we are too busy pandering to everyone else to do anything about it. ***** me to tears.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by flappist

Not all, there is a grey market in higher end euros such as Astons, Jags, Maseratis etc.

As far as the "out of warranty so nobody wants them" babble, a simple carsales search will show that this is not the case. Some cars hold value better than others.

e.g. A 3 year old BMW 335i (2010) is about $60k and was $95k new.

On the other hand a 3 year old FPV GTE 5.4 which was also almost $90k new is high $30s, low $40s.

My relatives bought a new Citroen back in 06. Went OK during warranty. Warranty ran out and entire air suspension collapsed on all 4 corners. $13000 to fix. They sold it as is for $6000.

I love BMW. The closest European stuff to Aussie Fords. Friend of mine has a 2006 X5. Nice car. New was over $100,000. They bought it 5 years old for $30,000. That's a $70,000 loss for the original owner. Luckily they had a dealer warranty as in a few weeks a module went in the gearbox that would have cost $3000. Luckily he's a Swedish robotics engineer and knows his way around things and does his own repairs. He had the harmonic balancer go on it. BMW wanted $1200 in Australia. He imported it from Norway for just $300 landed and fixed it himself. The average person wouldn't do that.

Same with Land Rover. The same friend has one that has 8 computers in it that must communicate together properly or the whole thing falls to crap. He just had a weird thing go wrong with the indicators and security system due to a communication error between the modules. He took the thing to Land Rover and they didn't know what they were doing. He ended up figuring it out himself.

That's the thing with second hand Euro's. They're great in warranty, but out of warranty you better figure out how to fix it yourself or you'll be sorry.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Heard a rather telling story from a friend who worked as a mechanic at a major Ford dealership in Melbourne. They had a new guy start, who had come across from a Mazda dealer after several years.

This new guy could not believe the number of issues that were fixed under warranty on Falcon/Territory, and told my friend "we just never saw these kinds of issues at Mazda".

I heard the same from someone who went from Mitsubishi to Ford.

Did motoring journalists fail Ford?
Motoring journalists failed in their analysis of Ford's FG Falcon. More critical reviews could have alerted the company sooner to the reasons why its flagship car was failing the marketplace, writes Julian Edgar.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4720488.html

[mik]

Originally Posted by TMC

My relatives bought a new Citroen back in 06. Went OK during warranty. Warranty ran out and entire air suspension collapsed on all 4 corners. $13000 to fix. They sold it as is for $6000.

I love BMW. The closest European stuff to Aussie Fords. Friend of mine has a 2006 X5. Nice car. New was over $100,000. They bought it 5 years old for $30,000. That's a $70,000 loss for the original owner. Luckily they had a dealer warranty as in a few weeks a module went in the gearbox that would have cost $3000. Luckily he's a Swedish robotics engineer and knows his way around things and does his own repairs. He had the harmonic balancer go on it. BMW wanted $1200 in Australia. He imported it from Norway for just $300 landed and fixed it himself. The average person wouldn't do that.

Same with Land Rover. The same friend has one that has 8 computers in it that must communicate together properly or the whole thing falls to crap. He just had a weird thing go wrong with the indicators and security system due to a communication error between the modules. He took the thing to Land Rover and they didn't know what they were doing. He ended up figuring it out himself.

That's the thing with second hand Euro's. They're great in warranty, but out of warranty you better figure out how to fix it yourself or you'll be sorry.

I agree mate , even jap parts can be very expensive compared to our locals and, we always used to say, land rovers /range rovers you need to be a mechanic because if not they can be hugely expensive to maintain.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by westy73

I think the main problem is we seem to be embarrassed to be called Australian at all. It's almost like we are trying to be some other country and by allowing every other country to DUMP their imports without restriction here we strangle our own manufacturers. To make it easier let's just call ourselves KorChiEurJapTaiMalUSAlian and forget Australia even exists. Then none of us will have to be embarrassed any more.

I for one love Ford Australia products, for the development budgets they have had and the engineering that resulted from that investment and I am proud to BE Australian and to BUY Australian.

The problem with your statement is that such a narrow range of vehicles are manufactured here, and a Commo or Falcon is not for everyone.

I drive a WRX - show me an Australian manufactured alternative and I will be happy to buy it.

Dad drives a Navara Turbodiesel dual cab and a LandCruiser - what do we make that compares?

Sister drives a Pulsar - Cruze might be an alternative there, but was not around back in 2005.

Mum drives a 200SX - what do we make here in terms of lightweight RWD turbo sports cars?

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by stevz

Well said. This country is losing its identity and we are too busy pandering to everyone else to do anything about it. ***** me to tears.

I agree with those sentiments as well and many similar I this thread. I just can't let this one go, it has cut too deep. It's more than just losing a 'car'. It's about losing something we'll never get back, and it will affect future generations...our kids and their kids. That makes it personal.

Casting the red/blue thing to the side, losing Ford means we'll lose Holden. The fact this country has the skills to not only design world class vehicles, but can execute the build and assembly is something of real tangible value. In my opinion it's in the national interest to preserve those skills and the means, and not let them walk out the door without so much as a dull whimper.

Time is short to do something about this, that is quite clear, but as others have said on this forum it just can't be over yet. The announcement was to close Oct 2016, they aren't closed yet though. In a perfect world it is still 3years and 5 months away. Perhaps in reality the glass is only 1/4 full....but it's not empty yet!

The events of the 23rd May serve as a significant marker in Australia's history. We are effectively witnessing the beginning of the end of the Australian manufacturing industry on the premise of globalisation. It's been happening across all industries for far too long, and on our watch. In my opinion the gravity of Ford's announcement presents a fork in the road for our nation and us individually.

As always, the choices are simple.

1. Do nothing, stop whingeing and accept the fact we will lose the automotive industry and ultimately our skills and manufacturing base in this country. Continue purchasing imported goods, and who knows, hopefully one day the government might also drop the 'tariffs' and initiate a FTA on the labour market. Then not only is there a choice to buy those cheap imported goods, there is a way to start buying cheap imported labour as well. Imagine how the government's bottom line would improve if they could simply plug imported labour into the public service. That way you could ensure people from the country of origin could drive the government fleet vehicles. Winning!

2. Take action and attempt to protect the future for next generation Australians.

I'm going to defer to Choice #2. I might be pushing the proverbial sack of excrement uphill but I just can't roll with #1. If the industry is to die, I want to at least be able to say to my children I tried to do something.

My first action is to start a email/letter campaign to the relevant stakeholders, including Ford, governments, business leaders and (if I can find any) influential patriots. From there it will be a personal campaign to try and get people/businesses to buy these great cars. My targets are those people in imported vehicles. For myself, I'll be committing to another ute & sedan purchase in the next 3 years.

Is there scope to start a separate thread on this, for only those people interested in choice #2? Maybe letters to Ford could be posted there so they at least might get back to the intended audience (is anyone from Ford active here anymore?) instead of put into the 'to be shredded pile' as the upper management departs for bigger and better positions back in Detroit.

[GT-spec15]

I tip my hat to your passion for the cause, but how do you think a petition is going to reverse the decision and boost Falcon sales back up to a sustainable level?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by FTE

Ranger is a POS. well the ones we have at work anyway. We bought 20 of them and took delivery in December and had nothing but issues with most of them from day 1. The quality is less than desirable and just pus to drive. If this is quality then the FG falcon must have been woeful.
Based on FG not being up to standard compared to ranger then I think I will keep my AU

Pretty much all of the commercial utes these days have problems. Tritons have a lot. BT50 which is similar to the Ranger has them. I've heard the Navara is having its fair share. I dont hold much hope for the new Colorado after previous ones. Hilux is the only one I cant comment on but from what I'm aware its not exactly new.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

I tip my hat to your passion for the cause, but how do you think a petition is going to reverse the decision and boost Falcon sales back up to a sustainable level?

I think you have just shown the exact problem he is talking about.
Total resignation that is inherent with our Australian culture these days.
Are you a sheep who just follows along without standing up to be counted ?

I for one second and third the enthusiasm. Basically if you show Ford USA we don't want their imports but would rather retain and buy their Australian made product then surely they will listen. They have tried imports from the USA and have failed miserably in the past. Do you honestly think that won't happen again ? Then Ford won't get money from imports nor from a local product. Is that what you want ??

Standup all of you Ford Australia lovers and be counted. Like he said it's 3 years and 5 months till d-day. Don't give up just yet. Use your damn voices and make some noise.

[DJM83]

What Ford may have listened to is sales. All well and good to 'stand up and be counted' but IMO buying a new falcon would have been the way to have been 'noticed'

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by westy73

I think you have just shown the exact problem he is talking about.
Total resignation that is inherent with our Australian culture these days.
Are you a sheep who just follows along without standing up to be counted ?

Mate the numbers no longer work. Whether or not I am passionate about the industry and want to be 'counted' is irrelevant. I will not be purchasing a Falcon any time soon, if ever. It's not an appropriate car for me.

Standup all of you Ford Australia lovers and be counted.

You have been counted, and the numbers did not add up.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by DJM83

What Ford may have listened to is sales. All well and good to 'stand up and be counted' but IMO buying a new falcon would have been the way to have been 'noticed'

Exactly.

A passionately written letter is not enough to save Falcon, even if 100,000 sign the petition. It doesn't 'mean' anything.

80,000 units per annum would do it, but unless you find a way to convince this many buyers I am afraid to tell you it's too little too late.

[ryeman]

Dearborn doesn't give a stuff what we think. We are a tiny, fragmented market.

[jpblue1000]

I hereby demand that you Mr Ford USA do as I want for I represent an unknown 1 or 20 or maybe 1000 people who are saddened by your decision to stop losing money. Even if I represent 10,000 people I declare you cannot stop production of this orphan car for without it my manly hood will be in question as I may have to purchase a commodore.
Even if only a percentage of those 10,000 are in any position to purchase said Falcon from you at any one time you must continue building them as my daddy had one and his daddy had one and some members of my family were conceived in them as we come from the land of nothing changes, so how will I procreate.
If you dont keep making the Falcon I will never buy another ford again, will die alone and my children will not have the pleasure of a family picnic, cause we in Australia cannot do anything unless we are in a falcon.
So please Mr Ford USA save my Falcon, I dont care about your needs just mine.

Signed
Ill never give up Jonny!

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Keen to hear also.

I know several people with Rangers and they rave about them. When Dad's Navara is due for replacement it'll most likely be a Ranger.

Same my old man has already gone from Navara to Ranger and he raves about the ranger from power to fuel economy over the Navara

Admittingly he did have an issue with the trans but the guys at westpoint ford had it fixed in the window that he had back here in vic (1 day from memory )

[westy73]

Originally Posted by DJM83

What Ford may have listened to is sales. All well and good to 'stand up and be counted' but IMO buying a new falcon would have been the way to have been 'noticed'

I am a Third generation Falcon own and also have a Territory. So I for one have stood up and been counted. I would have loved my young boys to have been 4th Generation Falcon owners but that right has been ripped out of my finger tips because of Governments. Not because of me ! I will buy another Falcon, most likely a GT before they close but by God I will have me another one so I can show my boys the heritage they could have had.

USA government would not have put up with this as an excuse and in fact didn't they bail out their car companies correct me if I am wrong.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by westy73

Basically if you show Ford USA we don't want their imports but would rather retain and buy their Australian made product then surely they will listen.

It's not 1982 anymore... We aren't buying their Australian built cars.

Of the 97,400 cars sold in Australia last month (March 2013), just 3.5 percent, or 3418 sedans, wagons and utes, were the ‘traditional Aussie family car’ carrying a Ford or Holden badge on the nose.
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/562...australia-lost

6 out of the top 10 selling cars are officially classed as SMALL. http://news.drive.com.au/drive/new-car-comparison/small-cars-big-fight-20130524-2k4nf.html?utm_source=drive&utm_medium=newsletter& utm_content=newsletter&utm_campaign=new_newsletter _v1