All things Solar (merged threads)

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

it really doesn't matter all that much about the angle.....as i stated above the time of year will determine output

Understood, looking at photos they have sent me I tend to agree. The installer has probably just had a guess at the roof angle at scribbled something down

[poppa smurf]

most do then of course comes the obligatory "oh look your roof angle and direction is perfect"

I built a rough angle finder by printing out an angle finder from the net and glueing that to a flat lump of plywood with a swinging wood needle

actually works very well

I wouldn't worry too much about the angle of your roof as long as it is close to a reasonable angle......anywhere from probably 20 degs to 40 would work fine and probably be okay out of those perimeters as well

[homegrown]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

just one other thing to remember if anyone is considering placing the panels on a frame on the roof other than standard

the council will require you to lodge building forms first with the appropriate fees and charges and all drawings submitted

council wanted $60 per square meter here if I placed the array on a frame

Thought there would be a charge. Why wouldnt they
Sometimes though just holding the panels on the roof you can feel the wind want to pick you and take you for a little air glide. They would want to make sure its a solid structure.

[homegrown]

Another thing you guys should ask for if your getting solar installed is to ask the lazy tradie not have any conduit showing. Its spoils the look of the roof. Its not hard to come up through 2 spots of the roof. Just lazy and looks horrible I reckon. Not many go to the effort but deffinately mention it.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by homegrown

Thought there would be a charge. Why wouldnt they
Sometimes though just holding the panels on the roof you can feel the wind want to pick you and take you for a little air glide. They would want to make sure its a solid structure.

the inspector was more interested in the presentation of the array from the street

the only mention he made about strength of the structure or the ability to catch wind was that no part of the array was to protrude above the ridge

I have replaced a few roofs in my time and built a lot of carports/verandas, the wind can very quickly turn dangerous and rip the iron out of the hands...a solar panel would catch about the same

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by homegrown

Another thing you guys should ask for if your getting solar installed is to ask the lazy tradie not have any conduit showing. Its spoils the look of the roof. Its not hard to come up through 2 spots of the roof. Just lazy and looks horrible I reckon. Not many go to the effort but deffinately mention it.

image

Where my panels are located their above an internal vaulted/cathedral ceiling and I had one installer say the only way to cable down to the inverter was across the roof with consult. He didn't get the gig.

[2011G6E]

The fecal matter is descending towards the ceiling mounted bladed rotary air cooling device...
Unbelievable suggestion from a government think tank (or is that drunk tank)...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226476663040

QUEENSLANDERS with solar panels on their roofs could soon be charged for the energy they produce.
The Queensland Competition Authority (QCA) is proposing to introduce a gross feed-in tariff scheme for rooftop solar power.
The move would see households with solar panels sell all of their energy to the grid and then buy back what they need at a more expensive retail rate.
The current feed-in tariff allows households to use what they generate for free and sell any excess energy back to the grid.
Clean Energy Council Policy Director Russell Marsh says the move would "rob" Queenslanders of the chance to save money by generating their own electricity.
"What the Queensland Competition Authority has proposed is the equivalent of telling people they can't just use the lemons growing on the lemon tree in their backyard," Mr Marsh said in a statement.
"They have to sell the produce to a wholesaler for next to nothing, and then buy the lemons back at a premium from the supermarket.
"Installing rooftop solar panels is one of the best ways households can save money on their electricity bills because it can significantly reduce the amount of electricity they need to buy from the grid."
Mr Marsh said the scheme would see households sell their electricity to the grid for eight cents per kilowatt hour and buy it back for anywhere between 17 and 35 cents per kilowatt hour.

...cont'd...

...great way to kill the industry and discourage people from fitting solar systems to their roofs.

I know I for one will be seriously rethinking our plan to fit a system to the house we're going to buy down at Rocky soon...is it still worth it? It won't be if this idiotic idea is brought in...

[SPArKy_Dave]

If a Gross tariff like that comes in anywhere, I guess it will make having battery storage much more appealling.

You'd essentially have a stand alone system, with the Power Grid for backup and supplementry power in times of high load.

Like these jiggers - http://powerrouter.com/


Why should anyone with Solar, be forced to sell low, and buy high?



Incidently, this Victorian Feed-in Tariff reduction, has created yet another mad solar rush.
A week ago, I was given a list of 105 installations, and asked to get as many done as I can, before 30th of Sept.

It doesn't faze me, cause I've never been one to rush a solar job.
I did at the list though, when I saw it.

Maybe if the Battery storage systems become popular, I'll finally be able to put the 'Standalone' portion of my Solar Accreditation to good use.
Might at last, get some value out of the $800 accreditation fee.......

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by Noddy

I've dug out my house plans and the roof is 20 deg. The array is facing due north so is it possible that the tilt angle is 16deg on top of the 20 deg roof?
Making it 36deg?? Had a quick look at the link you supplied and the graph shows the sweet spot for direct north 34 degrees. I think I'll give them a call tomorrow and clear it with them.

Exact angle will change depending on your latitude. Melbourne's exact latitude is about 37.7 degrees, which basically means that at the Equinox your solar panels will be perpendicular to the sun. The rest of the year they won't be exactly pointing at the sun unless you have a solar tracker, which are the arrays which track the position of the sun in the sky (and have HUGE output compared to standard installs flat on a roof).

[2011G6E]

I do know you can add bateries (and a hell of a lot of extra space needed and extra expense) to a solar power system. How many people will want to go to all that extra complication?

Not many I would bet. Solar was always sold as a way to cut down your power bills...start talking abut "off the grid" living and having to find a shed to put your batteries, and people will start to say it's just too hard.

I think the problem is that the electricity companies have the competition authorities in their pocket. They don't like competition from people producing their own power and they want complete control over the production of energy. If those goddamn consumers feed power into the grid, they won't have to produce as much, so their profits will drop. It's already been noticed from some news reports over the last couple of years since solar became popular.

[Benny D]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The fecal matter is descending towards the ceiling mounted bladed rotary air cooling device...
Unbelievable suggestion from a government think tank (or is that drunk tank)...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226476663040



...great way to kill the industry and discourage people from fitting solar systems to their roofs.

I know I for one will be seriously rethinking our plan to fit a system to the house we're going to buy down at Rocky soon...is it still worth it? It won't be if this idiotic idea is brought in...

well if this clear genius idea come in then there will probly be people actually removing solar from thier house.

[deesun]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The fecal matter is descending towards the ceiling mounted bladed rotary air cooling device...
Unbelievable suggestion from a government think tank (or is that drunk tank)...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226476663040



...great way to kill the industry and discourage people from fitting solar systems to their roofs.

I know I for one will be seriously rethinking our plan to fit a system to the house we're going to buy down at Rocky soon...is it still worth it? It won't be if this idiotic idea is brought in...

Isn't NSW on a gross feed in tarrif?
I do wonder what happens to all the electricity we overgenerate when all the FIT's are discontinued. Will we all be calling our solar companies and getting them around to disconnect some of our panels in disgust so that we only have enough working to cover our own usage?

[poppa smurf]

if this comes about I will go stand alone.......the expense isn't that great in comparison to a lifetime of high power prices

[Stagg]

Thing about feed in tariffs is that its not a sustainable model, its really only meant for the short term i.e. 15 - 20 years.

Once everyone has solar and dirty power is all but eradicated, there is going to be a need for serious change of infrastructure...

[poppa smurf]

Hah! had to laugh at that......I will be very happy if I'm still around in 15 - 20 years neverlone the FIT or my solar

I doubt I will be here in 10

[xisled]

Originally Posted by deesun

Isn't NSW on a gross feed in tarrif?
I do wonder what happens to all the electricity we overgenerate when all the FIT's are discontinued. Will we all be calling our solar companies and getting them around to disconnect some of our panels in disgust so that we only have enough working to cover our own usage?

Currently if you are installing panels in NSW you can go NET, due to there being no buy back.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The fecal matter is descending towards the ceiling mounted bladed rotary air cooling device...
Unbelievable suggestion from a government think tank (or is that drunk tank)...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226476663040



...great way to kill the industry and discourage people from fitting solar systems to their roofs.

I know I for one will be seriously rethinking our plan to fit a system to the house we're going to buy down at Rocky soon...is it still worth it? It won't be if this idiotic idea is brought in...

QLD: I hope this is not going to be the case. I originally went solar to save money, not make it - although the FIT made it very attractive! I was more than happy to pay $3600 for my system with a very generous govco rebate of around $3000. Without the rebate I could not have afforded it.

The FIT buy back means to me that the system would pay for itself in roughly 3 years. Well worth it IMO - all free after that.

I found it hard to reason how when I was paying 23c kWh, that I would get paid back 52c kWh by feeding unused energy into the grid - I still find it hard to nut that one out! Seemed to good to be true, maybe it is!

Like I have stated in a previous post, I got a guarantee on my system - not on the rebates.

Too late if things change now for me, but like 2011G6E - I think this will kill the solar industry in QLD. Ludicrous!

Cheers!

[mickyyyy]

Originally Posted by xisled

Currently if you are installing panels in NSW you can go NET, due to there being no buy back.

Hasent it been NET for a long time now? or did it start out as GROSS then switch to NET or you have a choice?

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Hasent it been NET for a long time now? or did it start out as GROSS then switch to NET or you have a choice?

I believe that in NSW you can still do gross, but the electricity suppliers will not expect it as it does not make sense to sell all your generation at 0-8c, when you buy it at 30c.



BTW - if any NSW dudes have an analog meter, look into the possibility of keeping that meter rather than going digital NET feed in.

The digital nets the usage instantaneously, whereas the analog will spin backwards - you will get more than 0-8c on an analog - it will be at your consumption charge ... about 30c

[xisled]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Hasent it been NET for a long time now? or did it start out as GROSS then switch to NET or you have a choice?

It did start as GROSS but as the Gov change the FIT they had to change the option of NET and GROSS.

I would suggest not trying to keep your old meter that spins backwards, this can cause the meter to be damaged and when you are paying for the power the meter will spin quicker and you will be charged for more power than you are using.

These type of meters were never made to go backwards.

That is why it is important to get a new meter with the solar install.

In Victoria, your installer should not be turning the solar system on until the retailer has arranged the installation of the solar meter.
As above old meters may break down, but if you have a smart meter and the solar is turned on, without it first being reconfigured for solar.

The meter may charge you for your generated power. I have seen it so many times because installers, or customer turn's there solar system on before having the solar meter and they get a massive bill.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by xisled

It did start as GROSS but as the Gov change the FIT they had to change the option of NET and GROSS.

I would suggest not trying to keep your old meter that spins backwards, this can cause the meter to be damaged and when you are paying for the power the meter will spin quicker and you will be charged for more power than you are using.

These type of meters were never made to go backwards.

That is why it is important to get a new meter with the solar install.

In Victoria, your installer should not be turning the solar system on until the retailer has arranged the installation of the solar meter.
As above old meters may break down, but if you have a smart meter and the solar is turned on, without it first being reconfigured for solar.
The meter may charge you for your generated power. I have seen it so many times because installers, or customer turn's there solar system on before having the solar meter and they get a massive bill.

I agree 100% with this......I too have seen meters register the input as a charge

not a good idea!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by xisled

The meter may charge you for your generated power. I have seen it so many times because installers, or customer turn's there solar system on before having the solar meter and they get a massive bill.

can you elaborate more on this. are you saying that when i get my smart meter installed, the amount of power that my inverter is saying i have generated, automatically appears on the new meter??

i'm thinking i will turn my system off the day before my meter goes on, and then turn it back on once the import/export meter is installed. surely it wouldn't be able to know how much energy has been produced.

regardless, a phone call to your retailer normally gets the issue resolved.

my import/export meter is due on in a week.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Benny D

well if this clear genius idea come in then there will probly be people actually removing solar from thier house.

Might mean if you wait you can pick up a cheap solar setup, much larger than you would have been able to afford, and with the money saved put in a battery system...?

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by prydey

can you elaborate more on this. are you saying that when i get my smart meter installed, the amount of power that my inverter is saying i have generated, automatically appears on the new meter??

i'm thinking i will turn my system off the day before my meter goes on, and then turn it back on once the import/export meter is installed. surely it wouldn't be able to know how much energy has been produced.

regardless, a phone call to your retailer normally gets the issue resolved.

my import/export meter is due on in a week.

Wow, that's a pretty quick installation for the import/export meter. My system was installed end of June and the meter was only installed on the 12th September!
As for the meter itself, everything is reset back to zero. There is a reading for power drawn from the grid, one for off peak if you have it, and one for the number of kWh you've put back in the grid.

The figure on the inverter is a separate figure to that on the meter. One is how much power you've generated (inverter), the other is how much you've exported to the grid (smart meter).

Have a read of this: http://www.sapowernetworks.com.au/pu...d.jsp?id=11342

[xisled]

Originally Posted by prydey

can you elaborate more on this. are you saying that when i get my smart meter installed, the amount of power that my inverter is saying i have generated, automatically appears on the new meter??

i'm thinking i will turn my system off the day before my meter goes on, and then turn it back on once the import/export meter is installed. surely it wouldn't be able to know how much energy has been produced.

regardless, a phone call to your retailer normally gets the issue resolved.

my import/export meter is due on in a week.

The solar you generate before the solar meter is installed is lost. You do not get anything for it. Also the reading on your inverter is not what the retailers use, they read it from your meter. The inverter shows you how much power you have generated in total, before going into your house. The meter measures the excess solar you have produced, not the total solar produce. You are then given a buy back from the excess solar generated.

As I said on vic, your system should not be on until your solar meter is installed. How I know this. I work for a vic retailer and I get the paperwork from the solar installers and raise the request for the meter to be changed over.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by xisled

The solar you generate before the solar meter is installed is lost. You do not get anything for it. Also the reading on your inverter is not what the retailers use, they read it from your meter. The inverter shows you how much power you have generated in total, before going into your house. The meter measures the excess solar you have produced, not the total solar produce. You are then given a buy back from the excess solar generated.

As I said on vic, your system should not be on until your solar meter is installed. How I know this. I work for a vic retailer and I get the paperwork from the solar installers and raise the request for the meter to be changed over.

thanks. i understand all that. i was just wondering how retailers end up charging customers huge bills if the meter is starting from scratch when it goes on? i understand they note the meter reading and then change it to a import/export meter.

i know the issue regarding the high bills is common. i was just wondering if you knew how the retailer made the error. my nieghbour reckoned they read the power generated as 'usage'.

in SA the systems used to get turned on as soon as the panels were up, but due to the 'high 1st bill' thing, installers are now instructed to turn it off after they have checked its all working. my installer told me that it wasn't 'illegal' for me to turn it back on after they leave but to be aware that i may end up with the bill issue. my retailer isn't due to read my meter (or guess my usage) until end of october as i got a bill just before my system went on.

[poppa smurf]

if you have the old meter with the spinny whatsit with all numbers intact

try the solar for a day or two......if the numbers have reduced (taking into account the possible draw from home electrical appliances) then I think it would be fine

however if the meter could possibly be damaged and go into a negative generation is it worth the risk

weighing up the pro's and con's I think I would wait until i got my smart meter on

[prydey]

i have had my system on since the installers left. thats 2 weeks. i've been keeping track of the usage and so far (thanks to quite a few cloudy/rainy days) the meter has only gone forward about 20kwh and my solar has produced over 260kwh. has seen a worst daily output of 3kwh (rained all day) and a best so far of 21kwh.

my installer checked my meter and said the type i had would be fine if i left the system on.

meter goes on in a week so i'll run the gauntlet for a bit longer

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by prydey

i have had my system on since the installers left. thats 2 weeks. i've been keeping track of the usage and so far (thanks to quite a few cloudy/rainy days) the meter has only gone forward about 20kwh and my solar has produced over 260kwh. has seen a worst daily output of 3kwh (rained all day) and a best so far of 21kwh.

my installer checked my meter and said the type i had would be fine if i left the system on.

meter goes on in a week so i'll run the gauntlet for a bit longer

good news........you should be right.....worried me a bit when the other feller said about damaging the meter.....hadn't heard of that before......I had heard of a couple of folks getting charged for infeed

but keeping a very close watch, as you have done, should see if it is running right

[prydey]

haha, its taken the best part of the 2 weeks for the novelty of checking the meter to wear off. i still check the inverter and daily totals but have cut back on checking the meter to only once a day or couple of days