E85 vs THE REST! - Page 4

prasac · 06-01-2012, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyros

Hey Paul, barrel buy vs pump fuel? E-flex and United

barrel stuff is better just depends on what you mix it with. prefer United over E-Flex. we filled up with Caltex E-flex from Pendle Hill just for cruising around Summernats, tested it and it was E73. at least with the barrel stuff u know the consistency is there. we have a good mix we make ourselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Prasac could elaborate further on this, but the only problem is that non flex-fuel vehicles (inc E85) don't have the sensors necessary to detect ethanol content. They also don't have the control software to manage the air fuel mixture properly. So your car might run on E85, it just won't run well. This is where the tune comes in.

yeah it'd be running pretty lean. i usually add about 5-7L of E99 to 50L of Caltex Vortex 98 for my Aurion runs fine.

blueoval · 06-01-2012, 12:52 AM

5-7ltrs u could get away with. 35l like graham used on an untuned and unprepared car is asking for trouble.

I find with eflex i run an extra 5ltrs in my mix to help compensate for lower potency batches of fuel. Never heard my car ping or cough doing it this way.

F6 JET · 06-01-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddy351

I looked it up , you need to change your main jets , power valve and exceletator pump to suit the fuel . So a full rebuild or an e85 carb is needed.

paddy this is a good start or just buy the quickfuel e85 green carb desinged right for the job

http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/s...rts/e85-1.html

F6 JET · 06-01-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

barrel stuff is better just depends on what you mix it with. prefer United over E-Flex. we filled up with Caltex E-flex from Pendle Hill just for cruising around Summernats, tested it and it was E73. at least with the barrel stuff u know the consistency is there. we have a good mix we make ourselves.

yeah it'd be running pretty lean. i usually add about 5-7L of E99 to 50L of Caltex Vortex 98 for my Aurion runs fine.

thats a great way of using it as a octain booster but ull start confusing it for the peanuts out there

big mixes need to be tuned but a small few ltrs on 98 nets a good result or as a safe guard against pinging ( this is for newbys)

F6 JET · 06-01-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham_h

Yup.....that bad ?

should of put 10 ltrs of diesel to clean the system at the same time

rickyros · 06-01-2012, 03:28 PM

how much it cost to make yourself paul? Setup etc?

prasac · 07-01-2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyros

how much it cost to make yourself paul? Setup etc?

you need to buy the E100, you will need to find a supplier, E99 or E98 unless u have a licence that is the best u will get. get the VP Racing M2 Lube $20 depending where u buy it, (1 bottle treats 200L) and then whichever you want to mix it with. Caltex Vortex 98 or BP 98. don't use Shell it already has ethanol in it. you can even use a race fuel. just do 10%, no point going 15%. plus it makes the maths easier.

setup is 3 x Bosch 044's, 8 x 1600cc injectors. that we know is good for at least 1200hp at the engine. with the 6-cylinder get some 2000cc injectors.

later this year we are going to do a little more testing, try running the Capri and the Outalw 10.5 car on ethanol without an intercooler. will be interesting to see the effects on power and performance, with/without an IC and ethanol vs methanol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 JET

thats a great way of using it as a octain booster but ull start confusing it for the peanuts out there

big mixes need to be tuned but a small few ltrs on 98 nets a good result or as a safe guard against pinging ( this is for newbys)

it is a good octane booster. 5% pure ethanol to 98-octane brings it up to 100-octane. 10% probably 101-102 octane.

SPEAK TO YOUR TUNER BEFORE GOING TO E85 OR DO YOUR HOMEWORK

dieseltrain79 · 07-01-2012, 04:27 PM

SUmmernuts Yeah !

prasac · 07-01-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

SUmmernuts Yeah !

u love it, the boys loved the Summernuts.

bit of a nugget with the Caltex e-flex stuff. E-flex 72 plus restrictive air cleaners took the car 3-5 secs to get up on boost.

graham_h · 11-01-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 JET

should of put 10 ltrs of diesel to clean the system at the same time

Hey hey....hang on a bit ! So I overdid it a little.....
Good news is added $20 of 98 to the last half a tank and its running just fine. Power is back and no errors codes being thrown up. Fingers crossed no long term damage. Just wish they'd sell barrells for what they're actually worth. Have to get upto Sucrogens refinery see if they do "cellar door" sales

OBW351 · 11-01-2012, 06:43 PM

prasac

How much is that E99 you are talking about worth.

In regards to the caltex E-flex changing from E85 to E 72 between the different seasons, could you mix in extra e 99 to bring it up to E85? In qld as far as i am aware we don't have united E85 so that just leaves me with caltex stuff. The other option of course is race E85, How much is that worth?

Is something like that possible?

Cheers brent

graham_h · 11-01-2012, 06:46 PM

The Sucrogen race stuff I was quoted $2.50p/l

XR8 Uterous · 11-01-2012, 06:49 PM

For Melbourne people, Point Cook United now sells E85.

graham_h · 12-01-2012, 12:42 PM

Good news after my stupidity of filling it up with E85
Did a 200k trip, clear lean bank error code and hasn't come back.
If anything it pulls harder now... maybe cleaned the crap out ?
Dunno.
Next long term project will be to grow my own.
2 acres of sugarcane will produce 4,500ltrs of ethanol (apparently)
Next question is what would be necessary to run on 100% ethanol ?

blueoval · 12-01-2012, 12:52 PM

Good to hear graham. Hopefully there isnt underlying damage. Keep an eye on it.

To run 100% ethanol, I would expect you would need the minimum:

Real big injectors,
bigger fuel pump,
a full tune with either xcal or something.
a dam good tuner.

prasac · 12-01-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham_h

Good news after my stupidity of filling it up with E85
Did a 200k trip, clear lean bank error code and hasn't come back.
If anything it pulls harder now... maybe cleaned the crap out ?
Dunno.
Next long term project will be to grow my own.
2 acres of sugarcane will produce 4,500ltrs of ethanol (apparently)
Next question is what would be necessary to run on 100% ethanol ?

a liquor license

that was the only thing stopping up from buying pure ethanol

same thing needed to run pure methanol as E85. from what i have heard pure ethanol uses 20%+ more fuel on top of E85.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW351

prasac

How much is that E99 you are talking about worth.

In regards to the caltex E-flex changing from E85 to E 72 between the different seasons, could you mix in extra e 99 to bring it up to E85? In qld as far as i am aware we don't have united E85 so that just leaves me with caltex stuff. The other option of course is race E85, How much is that worth?

Is something like that possible?

Cheers brent

E99 from Manildra is about $450 a barrel, then u have to go pick it up or get it delivered etc. yep, you can definitely mix it to make up the % difference. Race E85 depending on who u get it from can be anywhere from $500-$700 a barrel.

for the Sydney guys, i am trying to talk mates of mine that own a servo @ Northmead to put E85 in, we were talking about it a couple weeks back, if its not too dear to convert they will do it. he said if they do it they will do it right and mix it with 98 instead of 91.

futura · 12-01-2012, 02:51 PM

tell Johnny to set up a bikini car wash as well..that might help sell the E85

prasac · 12-01-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura

tell Johnny to set up a bikini car wash as well..that might help sell the E85

then no work would get done.

OBW351 · 13-01-2012, 12:14 AM

I am very interested in running E85 as my new engine i am about to get going in the next month or 2 is running 13.5:1 comp so will need good fuel. I don't have any E85 readily available to me except from caltex in brisbane but from all reports it varies in strength which would be difficult with a carby setup having to retune all the time. I would love to head this direction but a do have a fairly stable supply of avgas so that might be the direction to head.

regards brent

prasac · 13-01-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW351

I am very interested in running E85 as my new engine i am about to get going in the next month or 2 is running 13.5:1 comp so will need good fuel. I don't have any E85 readily available to me except from caltex in brisbane but from all reports it varies in strength which would be difficult with a carby setup having to retune all the time. I would love to head this direction but a do have a fairly stable supply of avgas so that might be the direction to head.

regards brent

get an ethanol tester http://www.jegs.com/i/Quick+Fuel/793/36-E85/10002/-1 it doesn't matter if it varies a few % here and there. you could always get it in 200L drums. that way you have plenty of fuel at the same %. it doesn't vary that much, the Caltex u deal with may have the same in it for a while.

OBW351 · 13-01-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

get an ethanol tester http://www.jegs.com/i/Quick+Fuel/793/36-E85/10002/-1 it doesn't matter if it varies a few % here and there. you could always get it in 200L drums. that way you have plenty of fuel at the same %. it doesn't vary that much, the Caltex u deal with may have the same in it for a while.

How much would the tune vary so from E72 to E 85? Would it affect it so much on the street? I know for the race track i would set up for the good stuff.

it would just run a little richer with E 72 in it. That correct?

prasac · 13-01-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW351

How much would the tune vary so from E72 to E 85? Would it affect it so much on the street? I know for the race track i would set up for the good stuff.

it would just run a little richer with E 72 in it. That correct?

yeah, on E72 it would just run richer. we use the E85 tune with E72 on the street all the time, runs about .3-.5 AFR richer.

there is not too much difference in power. between E72 and E85 we saw 15rwhp less and less torque also.

OBW351 · 13-01-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

yeah, on E72 it would just run richer. we use the E85 tune with E72 on the street all the time, runs about .3-.5 AFR richer.

there is not too much difference in power. between E72 and E85 we saw 15rwhp less and less torque also.

Is that all, so i am not going to do any lasting damage if i put E72 in it, that is really good to know, I think i will head down this route for sure now.

thanks heaps

prasac · 13-01-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW351

Is that all, so i am not going to do any lasting damage if i put E72 in it, that is really good to know, I think i will head down this route for sure now.

thanks heaps

no damage, ethanol is good stuff. we have run it in the low 10's and accidentally as lean as 14.0 AFR during 1/4 mile passes. if it didn't hurt it then running a couple points fatter during street cruising won't affect it. the yanks actually shoot for a 10.7-11.2 AFR, in the Capri and Corolla it likes it around 11.5-12.1. if you haven't got an air fuel meter, its a good investment. the one we have in the Capri has a 5-wire NTK sensor, these are one of the best on the market, and it was less than $300.

here's a video of the one in the Capri and how it all works and looks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mp433TOz5k

Giant · 13-01-2012, 11:40 AM

Great video your bro makes it look so easy.

OBW351 · 13-01-2012, 03:50 PM

how long does e 85 last in drums before it is no good.

Giant · 13-01-2012, 04:14 PM

from memory well seal drum 2 years

blueoval · 13-01-2012, 04:29 PM

Doesn't the drums need to be metal as well, not plastic?

TruBlu351 · 13-01-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac

no damage, ethanol is good stuff. we have run it in the low 10's and accidentally as lean as 14.0 AFR during 1/4 mile passes. if it didn't hurt it then running a couple points fatter during street cruising won't affect it. the yanks actually shoot for a 10.7-11.2 AFR, in the Capri and Corolla it likes it around 11.5-12.1. if you haven't got an air fuel meter, its a good investment. the one we have in the Capri has a 5-wire NTK sensor, these are one of the best on the market, and it was less than $300.

here's a video of the one in the Capri and how it all works and looks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mp433TOz5k

Sound like you're using a petrol AFR meter??

ie: the meter just converts the lambda value to an AFR calibrated to petrol. A lambda of 1 = 14.7:1 AFR for petrol, but that same 1 = 9.8:1 for E85. Having read a few posts from other users using E85 and oxy sensors, I think I'd just stick it on the lambda readout to avoid any confusion.

prasac · 13-01-2012, 05:32 PM

thanks Matt, well setup car makes it look easy

short term - couple months, plastic is fine we have some in plastic drums for a few months.

long term metal is the best. you also need to keep the drums etc off the ground so they don't absorb the water in. we have tested some with water in it, didn't really even make much of a difference which was surprising.

we just put the drums on a pallet and all is good. i have heard a couple years if it's stored well, i personally wouldn't push past a year.