Goodbye Holden Commodore?

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Nic85 does have a point.


Some here have said this tech are useless gadges but I don't class them all like that -

Park assist
Adaptive cruise control
Blind Spot info system

A bit blingy but useful -

Massaging seats
rain sensing wipers
Intelligent access

All unavailable on the Falcon and probably won't be. Then of course we have the future with the likes of the iPhone app dev that Ford are promoting that will link up to the cars computer, might be bling but it could well introduce so innovative features.

Park assist ....If you cant park you simply shouldnt be driving
Adaptive cruise control....... A benefit though not a car choice decider / deal maker breaker
Blind Spot info system.....If the design was good there would be no blind spot

A bit blingy but useful -

Massaging seats.......another weight adding gimmick - then the critics complain of fuel efficiency, but a space saver spare is acceptable ??
rain sensing wipers.....In my experience these are pathetic - i switch to manual override in the Renault Laguna
Intelligent access......Yet to own a car that boosts my IQ

[Nikked]

Gimmicks are what sells cars...

People buy useless crap...


Espicially when they look at spending over 30g's on a car. When you can buy cars of similer price and size of a Commodore/falcon but have more stuff in them, its a joke.

The falcon has already got the quality, styling and powerplants...be good to see some of the Euro-ford stuff in them.

[Nic85]

I always use the auto wipers in my ASX. I find them incredibly useful. It's the little things that help sell cars. Like I said before, if car A has a few features you like, and car B doesn't, everything being equal, you'll pick car A every time.

[JG34JA]

I agree with what some of Nic85 is saying. The ideal weight always was that 1455kg range. If you go back to Falcon's halcyon sales days of the early 1990s, they didn't weigh much more than 1500kg, had motors with a lot of torque off idle (like a diesel), and fuel costs hurt the wallet less, as did a purchase cost of around $30K IIRC. So for now, a combined mid size RWD Mustang/Falcon does make sense; it always has.

Gotta caution that while a multitude of tech might be nice in a new car, it's abject misery as it ages and begins to go wrong. Then adding, for example, Euro replacement parts costs to the units, aargh! In reflection I'll let others have the tech if my car can be 100kg lighter... Some of the cars I have loved the most had the least tech in them, and I often yearn for that kind of SIMPLICITY again: a good foot heater and quarter vent windows; vinyl floors and seats so you can drive in a wetsuit on bitterly cold days without worrying about the trim; bench seats up front so you can sit with your girl rather than an ipod; and isn't it nice, just sometimes, when the world is not demanding your soul through the pixels of an integrated phone?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Gimmicks are what sells cars...

People buy useless crap...

One man's gimmick is another man's pride ;-)

Seat belts were once a safety gimmick, so was the LH side mirror. Heaters and A/C originally gimmicks.Intermittent wipers, steering wheel controls, 12V power plug, tacho, electric seats, automatic transmission - all started off as gimmicks to get extra sales.

I love my Territory's gimmicky auto dimming rear vision mirror

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

If manufacturing goes, so does the R&D!!

Not necessarily. Australia is already doing more than its fair share on global R&D and will (should) continue to do so for a long time yet ...... manufacturing or not. Different story in the red camp. They do more R&D for themselves rather than for GM.

[jpd80]

Ford spending more than a billion on their R & D facilities here in Australia,
that says to me that Engineering, Research and Development will stay regardless...

[mik]

imo it`s not that most people don`t want big safer more spacious all purpose cars, but more the point people can`t afford them , the majority of people are living on less $$$$ all the time.

[prydey]

if commodore goes, it is the only car being built on that platform although i can't see how they could still justify building cruze here on its own.

if falcon goes, surely that means territory goes as well??!! would they accept this as collateral damage? surely they will try to keep building the next car here, like toyota do with camry.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by mik

imo it`s not that most people don`t want big safer more spacious all purpose cars, but more the point people can`t afford them , the majority of people are living on less $$$$ all the time.

Fuel and registration keeps going up, stamp duty and insurance. Car parks are getting smaller, traffic slower and more congested.

You wouldn't know that we live on a huge land mass with a relatively small population.

It's easier to drive a smaller car.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nic85

I always use the auto wipers in my ASX. I find them incredibly useful. It's the little things that help sell cars. Like I said before, if car A has a few features you like, and car B doesn't, everything being equal, you'll pick car A every time.

No? Please don't speak on my (and many others) behalf? Its what YOU would pick. Not me or I would be driving some hatchback with lipstick holders rather than the GT 335. Everything being equal would be bloody boring if you ask me. Should there only be the choice of Madza 3's for everyone? Close down all brands and make the 'SUPER 3'. 1 car for everyone whether you are in the country, city, farm, outback, sticks, beach, bush .... etc. Do you realize that many here would buy a large car 'just because' over something with vibrating seats and a purse drawer?

YES. It is the little things that help sell cars ...... but my little things that are important .... to me....... is a bloody huge engine just for starters.

If I go and buy 'your' Mazda 3 clone ....... I am retiring to the old folks home to rock gently for the next few years till I wilt and die!

1 other point ...... MAZDA are in the poo. SO much for being the most popular. Sales do not always mean success.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

imo it`s not that most people don`t want big safer more spacious all purpose cars, but more the point people can`t afford them , the majority of people are living on less $$$$ all the time.

I find the price gaps between small to Mid to large cars hard to reconcile compared to other regions.
The gap between Focus and Mondeo/Fusion is much less in UK/USA and the gap between the
Focus-Fusion-Taurus is much less in the USA than our Focus-Mondeo-Falcon price regime.

I have a feeling that IF FoA could convince the brass to build Mondeo/Fusion here
and convert some of our engine plant into manufacturing 2.0 and V6 diesels for the region, things would
go a whole lot smoother and sales of efficient Fords would go through the roof with less restricted supply..

Not being a strong diesel advocate here but FoA has infrastructure that could be used to improve supply
to customers in the region and shorten the waiting time considerably, why not try...

[Kryton]

Is this thread about the Commodore or not?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by davway

Is this thread about the Commodore or not?

Oh please, after four pages and absent of any substantial evidence, I think the original topic is well and truly dead and buried...

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Would an American example count?

The Crown Vic was essentially unchanged from the 1998 model year through the 2011 model year. No body panels were changed.

good point, but I was talking about Aussie cars.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by davway

Is this thread about the Commodore or not?

r u a mod?...no bugger off if your not interested. Theres is alot to the saying "is commadore dead" theres a milion things to consider...not just the car itself

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Big cars like the Falcon etc are generally quite good on fuel on a long, flat bit of road where torque and gearing come into play. Punt it up a few hills, do a few overtaking manouvers, and that 5.8 will become about 15. Constant 105km/h in my diesel ASX is about 4.2L/100km, or 28% better. But, punt it up some hills, overtake, sit in traffic etc and the worst it'll get to is about 6.8L/100km. This is what the locals need to look at going forward. Good combined figures.

Yes but punting the diesel through hills would still be rather sedate.

[csv8]

The next Commodore ??
SsangYong developed their own all-new flagship Chairman W, New Chairman with V8 5-litre engine and 7G-Tronic of Mercedes-Benz. The Chairman W is derived from the SsangYong WZ concept car.
The 'W' stands for 'World Class.'[5]
Chairman W is offered in six trims with two engines, a limo version, and an additional AWD 4-Tronic (Mercedes-Benz 4Matic). XGi360, once used for New Chairman, is transferred to the entry model with a six-cylinder engine, and the 5-liter V8 Mercedes-Benz M113 engine and the 7G-Tronic automatic transmission (the largest V8 engine produced in South Korea[6]) are applied to two high-end models, VVIP and the long-wheel-base version. It has an electronic air suspension system with a rebound coil that helps reduce noise and vibration, as well as an extended rear passenger space[7] and the front and rear both have their own screen to control the car's entertainment system, similar to Chrysler's MyGig.
The Chairman W is the first Korean luxury sedan to apply a four-wheel drive system, a feature common in high-end European sedans.[7]

[irish2]

Originally Posted by johnydep

One man's gimmick is another man's pride ;-)

Seat belts were once a safety gimmick, so was the LH side mirror. Heaters and A/C originally gimmicks.Intermittent wipers, steering wheel controls, 12V power plug, tacho, electric seats, automatic transmission - all started off as gimmicks to get extra sales.

I love my Territory's gimmicky auto dimming rear vision mirror

Seat belts increased crash safety significantly. Heaters and A/C increased cabin comfort. Tachos are very useful for keeping an eye on your engine if you are actually going to drive the vehicle and not be a passenger. Having a car that parks itself is ****.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by irish2

Seat belts increased crash safety significantly. Heaters and A/C increased cabin comfort. Tachos are very useful for keeping an eye on your engine if you are actually going to drive the vehicle and not be a passenger. Having a car that parks itself is ****.

a couple of people i know with focuses and park assist r too scared to use it anyway...chicks

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

No? Please don't speak on my (and many others) behalf? Its what YOU would pick. Not me or I would be driving some hatchback with lipstick holders rather than the GT 335. Everything being equal would be bloody boring if you ask me. Should there only be the choice of Madza 3's for everyone? Close down all brands and make the 'SUPER 3'. 1 car for everyone whether you are in the country, city, farm, outback, sticks, beach, bush .... etc. Do you realize that many here would buy a large car 'just because' over something with vibrating seats and a purse drawer?

YES. It is the little things that help sell cars ...... but my little things that are important .... to me....... is a bloody huge engine just for starters.

If I go and buy 'your' Mazda 3 clone ....... I am retiring to the old folks home to rock gently for the next few years till I wilt and die!

1 other point ...... MAZDA are in the poo. SO much for being the most popular. Sales do not always mean success.

Okay, so you and your 335 GT account for maybe 80 sales per month? I dunno. Me and my "Mazda 3 clone" will go and sell 3000 units per month and live in "relevant world".

I understand your passion mate, I do. But the cold hard facts are that, in its current guise, Falcon isn't selling, and something needs to change!

[duaned]

The past few weeks I have been doing my own survey. I have been asking customers (when I notice a newish car in the driveway) why they purchased the small car and, what they had before it. Most had large cars (bogandores, Falcons and Camrys etc.) and went to smaller cars due to:-
1/ Easier to park and to navigate tight spaces. This was mentioned above all else.
2/ Value. Why spend $35+ on a large car when I can have a car that still gets me to A to B with similar comfort?
3/ My family, friends have a small car. Australians have always been like a pack of sheep!
4/ Looks! Yes most have said the small car they have chosen is cute! Can't say I have heard this about a falcon or commodore!
5/ Running costs. This faired last. Rego, fuel etc. I'm sure these little cars drink the fuel when driven hard to motivate them up steep hills etc.

My wife recently purchased a small car, and her main reason was as mentioned in point 1.
Those here may say if you can't park a car the size of a falcon then you can't drive. Fair enough, but that is beside the point here, and un-related to the topic of sales.
Personally I love my FG, but something smaller like a Golf GTI or Renault Megane gets me excited. And no doubt, easier to park!

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Torment47

Just read this section - But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

That could be a big reason why , people can't afford to purchase them and maintain let alone spend 80-100 bux on fuel..

Obviously don't read the paper much. Commodore are bringing out an LPG only car by the end of the year, to counteract this petrol guzzling problem they have.

[Nikked]

When talking about platforms and their length of use...consider this.

the VT-VZ commodores are based on the Omega B, released 1994.

The VZ finished up in 2007. Thats a good 13 years of use...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Obviously don't read the paper much. Commodore are bringing out an LPG only car by the end of the year, to counteract this petrol guzzling problem they have.

Its the best thing to come out of australia as well.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Nic85

I always use the auto wipers in my ASX. I find them incredibly useful. It's the little things that help sell cars. Like I said before, if car A has a few features you like, and car B doesn't, everything being equal, you'll pick car A every time.

I understand your point on the provisor all things being equal, however you totally contradict yourself because both the falcon & commodore are unique local products 'unequal' to the other cars you speak of.

Our local products have alot more value & merit as opposed to most imported gadget clad cars without substance within their respective $$ categories.

Using Falcon as an example - world renowned i6, VERY EFFICIENT relevant to capacity - size - weight, class leading performance, world renowned auto, excellent IRS, excellent active & passive safety, superb comfort etc etc.
To overlook this car when making a purchase is foolish unless ofcourse the size or styling wasnt suitable.

The main problem our unprotected industry now faces is the new generation wanna be seen in an imported badge - for better or worse. Its all about image and perceived exclusivity with little regard for the engineering attributes of the car - and while not accounting for all lost sales, this single factor is responsible for thousands of lost local sales.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Nikked

When talking about platforms and their length of use...consider this.

the VT-VZ commodores are based on the Omega B, released 1994.

The VZ finished up in 2007. Thats a good 13 years of use...

My point was not about platforms. It was about singular models. The VE is unprecedented in terms of the time it's been around for an Australian car.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Its the best thing to come out of australia as well.

You tell me. I see good and bad in every branded car.

[Resurrection]

Ford Australia should keep it's nerve and keep building large cars. Last time Holden downsized (VB/VC/VH/VK/VL Commodore) it was trounced by the Falcon from 1982 to 1987. Should have also been 1981 except for some dodgy registration figures by Holden at the end of that year.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Okay, so you and your 335 GT account for maybe 80 sales per month? I dunno. Me and my "Mazda 3 clone" will go and sell 3000 units per month and live in "relevant world".

I understand your passion mate, I do. But the cold hard facts are that, in its current guise, Falcon isn't selling, and something needs to change!

there are a touch over 60 models on sale in australia and the falcon is in the top 10, so is selling more than many other cars.

how about others realise that their 'real world' isn't the same for everyone else.

this thread is about commodore's future, which looks as bleak as falcon. not sure why falcon needs to be singled out all the time.