whats happening over at HSV in 22 days ? - Page 4

Steffo · 20-09-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYGTHO

Couldn't be bothered reading all the post but if it is the new GTS-R they might have 380kw but at what price. I heard they are over the $100,000 mark. If you have that much money you could buy a GT-P and chuck a blower on it a few other mods and probably make 480kw and maybe still have cash left over? How much is a new GT? $70-80,000?

And warranty?

~$120k for possible HSV GTS-R.

$225k for BMW M5
$226k for Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
$200k for Audi S6

See a pattern?

XR8Master · 20-09-2007, 08:10 AM

Well perhaps, if it's wrong to compare a Boss 290 to a 6.0lt because it has 37 more cubes then its also wrong to compare a Double Overhead Camed engine to a Pushrod ?

The 6.0lt is a lighter engine then the Ford's Modular so why don't we compare engine output figures to engine weight ?

weenie · 20-09-2007, 11:04 AM

what ever they come out with it should be a good step up. I feel sorry that fpv/ford dont seem to be in a position to fire a decent salvo back yet. As for people who drive euros,& wont switch to hsv, dont ask the sales people about that, you might be dissapointed. Last time i talked to the dealer MD where i bought the ava, he was blown away at how many bmw cars were being traded on the gts. Not to mention how many limo companys were purchasing statos , caprice ,grange etc. I personally think that hsv is eyeing the euros now as competition more than fpv. Its a sad point in time for the blue camp, if all they have is a sticker upgrade & a few suspension shims. If it is a 7L gtsr, whether its $100-$150k its still better value than most euros.I really hope the orion lives up to the legend status that has been given on here. I can see ford heading down the same path as gm, motor wise. Keep it simple & cost effective.

Bent8 · 20-09-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

And hp/litre means diddly squat.

I beg to differ, take the new BMW 4.0L V8 which makes (as you said) 309kW@8300rpm vs the LS2 6.0L which makes 307kW@6000rpm...I would rather have the Chev motor because I don't have to rev it like buggery to get that power plus the M3's 4.0L motor will never make 550Nm no matter how hard you tune it...the LS2 probably makes more torque @ idle than the M3 does @ peak torque (3900rpm).

There is no replacement for displacement, that is the one and only rule!!(excluding forced induction of course

)

b2tf · 20-09-2007, 02:35 PM

How did this turn into an engine comparison? Its about HSV.

Steffo · 20-09-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

I beg to differ, take the new BMW 4.0L V8 which makes (as you said) 309kW@8300rpm vs the LS2 6.0L which makes 307kW@6000rpm...I would rather have the Chev motor because I don't have to rev it like buggery to get that power plus the M3's 4.0L motor will never make 550Nm no matter how hard you tune it...the LS2 probably makes more torque @ idle than the M3 does @ peak torque (3900rpm).

There is no replacement for displacement, that is the one and only rule!!(excluding forced induction of course

)

The funny thing is, the M3 peaks its torque at 3900rpm to the LS2's 4400rpm. And the most important thing in an engine is not its peak figure, its the torque spread. The reason engine's like the M3's work is that from very low revs all the way to the limit they have a very high % of their peak torque available whereas the LS2 is dead below 4000 (I know from experience). And no, the LS2 wouldn't make close to the M3's 400Nm at idle.

I'd take the BMW engine every time. And I hate BMW! Smooth power delivery that stays on from low revs all the way to redline, a huge rev band to play with (3000-8400rpm) etc etc. Its just, better.

GRNKPR · 20-09-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

How did this turn into an engine comparison? Its about HSV.

yeah !!! HSV is actually going to release that skaify instead of appendix trouble that kept him from Sandown it was flared up hemaroids again

FordFella · 20-09-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2tf
yeah !!! HSV is actually going to release that skaify instead of appendix trouble that kept him from Sandown it was flared up hemaroids again

Lol, but seriously. HSV is only gonna release that maloo and clubsport 20th anniversery (fpv style, I might add). I think the main reason that the Clubsport will be so is because HSV are spending A LOT of money on that GTS-R, and are a bit strapped for cash at the moment. The GTS-R will be released at next years SMS, possibly MMS. If it was released this SMS, then WTF is the point of the Clubsport 20th Aniversery? It'll look like crap next to it. Or maybe it and the GTS-R are the same thing.......

Bent8 · 20-09-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

How did this turn into an engine comparison? Its about HSV.

And that's what we're doing, comparing HSV engine's with the euro V8's

Nostalgia · 20-09-2007, 06:16 PM

New Street Machine Mag has little report about the Maloo which HSV was hoping to keep under wraps until the Sydney Motor Show but apparently images have leaked on to the internet. 307kw/550Nm. Less than 5 sec for the 100 sprint, making it the quickest factory ute in the world.

GRNKPR · 20-09-2007, 06:20 PM

Neraly as fast as a BA XR 8 of the line

T3ts50 · 20-09-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordFella

Lol, but seriously. HSV is only gonna release that maloo and clubsport 20th anniversery (fpv style, I might add). I think the main reason that the Clubsport will be so is because HSV are spending A LOT of money on that GTS-R, and are a bit strapped for cash at the moment. The GTS-R will be released at next years SMS, possibly MMS. If it was released this SMS, then WTF is the point of the Clubsport 20th Aniversery? It'll look like crap next to it. Or maybe it and the GTS-R are the same thing.......

My guess would be the GTS-R will be at MMS to coincide with orion.

Steffo · 20-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

New Street Machine Mag has little report about the Maloo which HSV was hoping to keep under wraps until the Sydney Motor Show but apparently images have leaked on to the internet. 307kw/550Nm. Less than 5 sec for the 100 sprint, making it the quickest factory ute in the world.

That title belongs to the FPV F6 Tornado, and just as the VE GTS is not faster then the F6 Typhoon, I highly doubt the VE Maloo will beat the Tornado.

5.4 GT · 20-09-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

That title belongs to the FPV F6 Tornado, and just as the VE GTS is not faster then the F6 Typhoon, I highly doubt the VE Maloo will beat the Tornado.

Well officially it belongs to the Maloo (Driven by Skaife). It was in the Guiness Book of records as the fastest production (ute/pickup).

5.4 GT · 20-09-2007, 06:50 PM

I hope they bring out the GTS-R. Might force FPV to get off their backside!!

FlipXW · 20-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Well officially it belongs to the Maloo (Driven by Skaife). It was in the Guiness Book of records as the fastest production (ute/pickup).

That was top speed, not 0-100

5.4 GT · 20-09-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

That was top speed, not 0-100

Yep thats correct I didnt think they had a 0-100 in Guiness?

jabba · 20-09-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive said it before and i'll say it again.. i can't ever see an M5 customer "lowering" their standards to buy a commodore... regardless of its power tag! Image is everything to people with that kind of coin... and being seen as a "bogan" isnt high on the list!

I disagree... My good friend has just gone from a M3 to a GTS... Reason is he wanted a change and Aussie muscle was on the menu... He loves his GTS, and admits it does not handle as well as refined as the M3. But the exhaust note and the power from the V8 compensates just nicely....

5.4 GT · 20-09-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

I disagree... My good frien has just gone from a M3 to a GTS... Reason is want a change and Aussie muscle was on the menu... He loves his GTS, and admits it does not handle as well as the M3. But the exhaust note from the V8 compensates just nicely....

You think he might go back to the new e92 M3 V8? They sound pretty nice too!

4Vman · 20-09-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

I disagree... My good frien has just gone from a M3 to a GTS... Reason is want a change and Aussie muscle was on the menu... He loves his GTS, and admits it does not handle as well as the M3. But the exhaust note from the V8 compensates just nicely....

You'll note i did say M5...

Van D · 20-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

And warranty?

~$120k for possible HSV GTS-R.

$225k for BMW M5
$226k for Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
$200k for Audi S6

See a pattern?

I've read your posts on the market shifting towards HSV from more expensive Euro's for performance, and I do agree with it somewhat.

The thing is, the rest of the package (IMO) is a major let down to the Euro's. I've only driven in a VE based HSV, but the build quality etc was far below various Euro cars i've been in. They can't just bolt a big engine in a car and expect masses to come with cash in hand can they?

I think that they'll attract some buyers from the import market, but I honestly feel they don't have a good enough car as a whole to take it to them. They've sort of put themselves in the middle.

FORD3V · 20-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You'll note i did say M5...

You also mentioned image and not wanting to look like a bogan.

4Vman · 20-09-2007, 07:10 PM

IMO there's no way you'll get a 380kw GTS-R for only 120K... id say more like 150K.

**Grunter** · 20-09-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive said it before and i'll say it again.. i can't ever see an M5 customer "lowering" their standards to buy a commodore... regardless of its power tag! Image is everything to people with that kind of coin... and being seen as a "bogan" isnt high on the list!

I agree. It would be a cold day in hell before I'd purchase any HSV or FPV over almost any performance european, cost aside.

Steffo · 20-09-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunter

I agree. It would be a cold day in hell before I'd purchase any HSV or FPV over almost any performance european, cost aside.

Having driven an '03 E55 AMG (5.4 Supercharged) and '06 Typhoon, personally, I think the F6 is the more drive orientated car, the more fun drive and just as fast. The only reason I'd take the E55 if I was given both is its monetary value. Sell it, buy an F6 and a deposit on a house.

Bent8 · 20-09-2007, 08:28 PM

Yeh, would love to test drive an E63 just to see how well they perform...apparently the E55's are faster thanks to that mountain of torque (700Nm@2600rpm).

I would never sell my M5 (if I had one) and go for a VE GTS, that's going backwards if you ask me. The M5's power/weight ratio is up there with an 07' 911 Turbo!!

The euro car's are worth their sticker price, the technology they squeeze into them is mind boggling...

Quote:

You think he might go back to the new e92 M3 V8? They sound pretty nice too!

Just watched a German review of an E92 (which now has a 'power bulge') and I think it sounds more like an I6 than a small block V8...still a great sound though.

Nostalgia · 20-09-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

That title belongs to the FPV F6 Tornado, and just as the VE GTS is not faster then the F6 Typhoon, I highly doubt the VE Maloo will beat the Tornado.

Hey dont shoot the messenger

Ford still rules the roost in this household no matter what the "pussy lion" badge brings out.

:

colossus · 21-09-2007, 08:04 AM

I highly doubt there is an influx of people trading in BMW's and Audi's for a GTS - In fact the only source this ever seems to come from is Holden car salesman, who as we know are a highly believable source of information (not). If there is a swing to the HSV I bet those buyers won't be return customers after they experience the abysmal cheap build qualitiy and crap after sales service.

I buy FPV/HSV because thats all I can afford, if I could afford the performance Euros I would buy those. Well worth the extra. Audi RS4's arn't really THAT pricey...

Steffo · 21-09-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

I buy FPV/HSV because thats all I can afford, if I could afford the performance Euros I would buy those. Well worth the extra. Audi RS4's arn't really THAT pricey...

They're not competitors. RS4 is a full size class down. There is no FPV or HSV equivalent. A modern day Torana or Cortina would be its equivalent.

chich · 21-09-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive said it before and i'll say it again.. i can't ever see an M5 customer "lowering" their standards to buy a commodore... regardless of its power tag! Image is everything to people with that kind of coin... and being seen as a "bogan" isnt high on the list!

Believe it or not it does happen - the Commodore/Falcon is simply used as an expensive shopping trolley so the prestige cars aren't battered on the roads everyday. I know one Gentleman who bought an SV300 a few years back because he didn't want to use the his 550 Maranello & M3 as daily drivers. He agrees that they're built like a POS but for the money you can't go wrong..