Aussies dead in Shot down plane crash over Ukraine.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

unfortunately armed conflicts will always happen and when it does innocent people get hurt or killed like we saw today.the only consolation is that the Boeing 777's pasanger capacity is 440 Max. so the death toll could have been higher

The plane was FULL... ALL seats taken..
And I don't think ANYTHING is any "consolation" on this tragic day!

[MrXR8]

remember these people are militia, they have tried and are trying to overthrow the current govt. they arnt the ukraine armed forces not the russian. where do they get aircraft to go for a look see to make sure in a war zone at 7 miles off the ground and risk loosing a 2 million dollar aircraft. no you shoot it down.so really use some common sense

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

i agree. but at the same time a warning was sent out not to travel through that airspace. why were they there??? some airlines put the mighty$ before lives. now yes they havent escolated to this but there was a posibility

Some? I'd say most.

Apparently they were cleared to travel 2000 feet above missile range (calling it for what it is).

But let's not point blame at anyone but the guy that pulled the trigger.

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The plane was FULL... ALL seats taken..
And I don't think ANYTHING is any "consolation" on this tragic day!

yes i get it. it is a loss. look at the 777 max seating capacity. tell me what it is? have a look. in one config it seats 440 passangers.

[MrXR8]

this is why i tend to stray from these threads... because people get very emotional about the loss and say very silly things. yes it is a bad thing but dont let it cloud the facts. or you arnt helping the people.

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Some? I'd say most.

Apparently they were cleared to travel 2000 feet above missile range (calling it for what it is).

agreed

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

The conflict hasn't even escalated to the point of shooting down enemy planes. That's why this is such a shock to everyone.

Ukraine has claimed they've had one jet fighter and a military cargo plane shot down recently as well. So it seems to have reached that point. Commercial craft shouldn't be flying over known warzones, sadly they often do.

[MrXR8]

remember SAM's cost less than interceptors so it would only make sense that the Militia does not have an abundance or planes lying around to go have a look at aircraft registry

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Ukraine has claimed they've had one jet fighter and a military cargo plane shot down recently as well. So it seems to have reached that point. Commercial craft shouldn't be flying over known warzones, sadly they often do.

Heard that but wasn't sure it was confirmed. Again though people trained to operate those weapons should be able to define targets at that range. Which can only mean it was on purpose or hillbilly's just trying out their new toy?

[MrXR8]

to be honest probably both

[UberKnee]

Depends on how well these rebel fighters are trained, they might have access to these weapons perhaps due to Russian army supply but not necessarily the training to go with it.

[MrXR8]

im sure the Ukraine trained Militia know how to use and are training the others. the problem is there are always yahoos on every pack when it comes to war and weapons. they are the ones that usually cause the most damage.as for pricing they are probably ex russian/ex Ukraine and would be oldish.so yes less than a MIG

[Dash_XR]

Sadly this will probably eventuate to just another chapter of the Cold War proxy war. With MAD still in place these small skirmishes will go on indefinitely.

[Charliewool]

Malaysian 777-200 ER seats 282 + 13 crew..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_fleet

[stazza]

Excuse my ignorance, but could someone outline the whole Russia vs. Ukraine conflict and also who is fighting who and who the separatists are etc...? In clear, simple terms.

I haven't followed the conflict at all, but I am interested to know these facts and google doesn't yield any results for "Russia vs Ukraine for dummies".

I'm not down with political lingo either

Who are these separatists, who are they fighting, where did they get the weapons? Are they kind of like guerrilla fighers or something?

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Malaysian 777-200 ER seats 282 + 13 crew..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_fleet

http://www.dimensionsinfo.com/boeing-777-dimensions/you are right i was refering to the 777 200 LRso does it make you feel better to know now that there is no consolation???

[Rangas GTP]

My theory, very we'll executed attack to take the eyes of the world and media away from the mass killings by Israelian ground troops in Gaza Strip. They will have full occupancy of Gaza and there oil. Mission accomplished. Thanks for your help Mr Obama.

[MrXR8]

simply Ukraine used to be part of the soviet union. was russian controlled. they now have inderpendence. some people in the Ukraine want the russians to rule again and are trying to overthrow the current govt. the russians arnt helping with troops posted at the border.put simply

[Trump]

Just came across this:

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Just came across this:

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

the plot thickens.........

[Romulus]

There's footage on Liveleak showing MH17 hit on the right wing, on fire and descending uncontrollably.

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Malaysian 777-200 ER seats 282 + 13 crew..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_fleet

http://planes.findthebest.com/l/289/...-200ERactually i was right. when a 777 200 ER is in its all economy config it fits 440 passangers.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Rangas GTP

My theory, very we'll executed attack to take the eyes of the world and media away from the mass killings by Israelian ground troops in Gaza Strip. They will have full occupancy of Gaza and there oil. Mission accomplished. Thanks for your help Mr Obama.

I don't think it is that drastic but you are right, Israel is invading another country with mass ground troops atm and you will struggle to see it on the news. Honestly believe it's more pure coincidence though.

[BHDOGS]

The fact is russia has a direct hand in this so called separatist movement supplying them guns ,training and even special forces and id even assume regular military troops just because there not wearing Russian flags drinking vodka doesnt mean there not russia. Putin is just another wannabe dictator who needs to be shot before others die by his old insane hands.

[MrXR8]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

The fact is russia has a direct hand in this so called separatist movement supplying them guns ,training and even special forces and id even assume regular military troops just because there not wearing Russian flags drinking vodka doesnt mean there not russia. Putin is just another wannabe dictator who needs to be shot before others die by his old insane hands.

i agreed with everything you said, just watch out for ole Vlad. he is a ruthless man.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Rangas GTP

My theory, very we'll executed attack to take the eyes of the world and media away from the mass killings by Israelian ground troops in Gaza Strip. They will have full occupancy of Gaza and there oil. Mission accomplished. Thanks for your help Mr Obama.

Same could be said when Putin took over Crimea just after that Malaysian plane went off the radar.

[Dash_XR]

I think you have to really delve into the realm of conspiracy theory to believe all the hype.. This is just allot of random unstable parts of the world doing their thing at the same time.

How good is it to live in Australia atm.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by MrXR8

i agreed with everything you said, just watch out for ole Vlad. he is a ruthless man.

Hes only ruthless to other russians who are to drunk on cheap vodka to notice having talked to many russians almost none of them support him hes only in power becoz of his populist policys aimed at the poor and downtrodden no matter what it costs his economy or other people. His latest war on homosexuals and banning of swear words is his latest madding scheme to save the "Russia way of life" whateva that is he needs to be put down. And just like hitler appeasing these people is pointless only cold steel ever stops them.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by stazza

Excuse my ignorance, but could someone outline the whole Russia vs. Ukraine conflict and also who is fighting who and who the separatists are etc...? In clear, simple terms.

I haven't followed the conflict at all, but I am interested to know these facts and google doesn't yield any results for "Russia vs Ukraine for dummies".

I'm not down with political lingo either

Who are these separatists, who are they fighting, where did they get the weapons? Are they kind of like guerrilla fighters or something?

Simply ..... and there is of course more to it than this and more groups involved with the separate militia but basically ......

Ukraine was once part of the whole Soviet Union or the USSR which included many smaller countries.

Both Ukrainians and Russians lived side by side during the Soviet Union ..... basically a state.

The USSR collapsed and the these 'States' were turned back into separate countries.

Problem now is, Some Ukrainians along with most Russians want to go back under control of mother Russia, while, fair to say, most Ukrainians want to stay as Ukraine.

Hence the fight ....... then there are the separate smaller groups that have their own agenda. Some are reportedly supported by the opposing countries so they can appear to be 'not involved' ..... in other words ..... sent in to do the dirty work for the relevant party.

This is basically it .........

What I want to know is, why did the militia have such a powerful and expensive weapon ...... that can determine at firing time ...... what sort of plane it was firing at? Who supplied it and who is backing them. If it is Russia, **** will hit the fan. Not good times and very sorry for all those families that are caught up in this. This place is mad!

[BHDOGS]

He even has his own versions of the brown shirts his putin "youth camps" were the young russians are taught to become violent nationalists god he ***** me anyway back on topic.