Buyback hypothetical

[Dezza]

What a complete load of crap. Imagine if they had this scheme back in the 70s and 80s. Imagine it's 1979, your XW GTHO has just turned 10 years old, at that point in time it's not worth that much money, so it gets destroyed.

I really like my 19 year old EA. It is very enjoyable to drive, it has far better visibility than new cars, and has proved to be very safe, despite the lack of airbags, traction control etc. I plan to hold onto that car for a very time, and there is no way in hell I'd send it off to get crushed. And to say that all young EA owners are the caps on backwards, doof doof variety is just crap.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by flappist

I used a different system years ago, I bought a plastic toy from Austria that evened the odds......

you'd make Gaston proud!

[Mr Hardware]

well done flappist. i'm glad all the politicians save me from all the things i didn't even know were a problem.

Also, my old saying goes when it comes to TC/EBD/ESC/whatever
"If it can't be fixed with opposite lock, it can't be fixed".

Also, this thread is turning into a 'my old heap of crap is so much better than the newer cars'.
Why don't we just add a 'old cars are made of steel and no-one ever got hurt but these new cars are made of plastic and crumple and i had steel bumpers on my 69 valo and a garbage truck ran into me at 60kmh and all i needed to do was a bit of spit and polish on the chrome bumper and i was good to go'. Come on boys, don't turn it into an old man fest.

[Barry_v]

I will personally run over anyone who tries to implement this with my 1979 P6 daily driver. appeasement doesn't work, if you let them take Czechoslovakia they will just want Poland for desert. this hypothetical hitler needs to feel my bumper bar over-rider in his leg and my bonnet emblem in his chest.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

I will personally run over anyone who tries to implement this with my 1979 P6 daily driver. appeasement doesn't work, if you let them take Czechoslovakia they will just want Poland for desert. this hypothetical hitler needs to feel my bumper bar over-rider in his leg and my bonnet emblem in his chest.

Viva la Revolución : : :

[Barry_v]

'From my cold, dead hands!'

[Mark351]

I'd rather that other states implement a yearly pink slip system for rego like NSW. This will ensure old cars are maintained and that dodgily modified vehicles are either fixed up or pulled off the roads. This would boost both the new car industry, as well as the car maintenance industry, and ensure more road worthy cars are on the roads.

[pauljh74]

So if we remove taxes etc and initially make cars cheaper, car companies sell what they can make, values of 10 year old cars plummet and then what happens if demand is high relative to supply? Price goes up, back where we started and the gap between a 10 year old car that is prematurely thrown on the scrapheap and a new car is higher than ever. Most people will only get the "discounted" new car once before taxes are reinstated. So we have a system that puts upward pressure on new car prices and downward pressure on older car prices, leaving car affordability at its worst level in decades.

It is an insult to people who actually take pride in their cars to say that the average car is only good for 10 years. My car is almost 11 years old and I would consider it is only halfway through its useful life. There's plenty more examples of cars like mine too. This could be extended by throwing more money at it than services every 6000km. My last car at 17 years old was sold for a little under $3000 with a RWC and I handed over the keys to the new owner with full confidence it had a few more years left in it before needing major work. If anything, a 10 year rule will result in people with 8, 9 or 10 year old cars simply not maintaining them, knowing they will only get a low price for it and letting it deteriorate to the point where it becomes less safe than a car that is double the age and cared for. It just encourages people to treat the car more as an appliance they throw away, rather than the second most important asset purchase they will probably make. If people treat it as more of the latter, the car will get more TLC. Encouraging the former won't result in safer cars - people will be too busy holding back their money to keep a reserve for the next car purchase. Not everyone gets to have the "problem" of choosing between an F6 and a GT. Their budget is alot tighter and takes much longer to get the money for an upgrade. Between paying a mortgage/rent, putting food on the table and keeping the car they have running, there's not much left. Some people also buy cheap new cars that don't stand up to used cars going for similar money. Given the choice between a bargain priced Korean or something like a slightly used Focus or Fiesta, I'd go the latter 2 every time. They would tick more boxes than the budget car would - including safety.

As for keeping the doof-doof brigade out of VL turbos etc. What do you think will happen if you effectively legislate these sorts of cars out of favour? They just choose another one and another model will get a rep as a doof-doof driver's car. They will have dodgy mods just like the current vehicles of choice. I'm sure there were other cars before the VL turbo became affordable and I'm sure they wrapped those around trees at excessive speeds too. Hit a tree at over 100km/h and doesn't really matter what it is, chances are you won't live another day to tell the tale. There's nothing stopping a person claiming to be a "collector" and then driving around in an incomplete restoration for an extended period of time. Mismatching paint doesn't make it unsafe. There's nothing stopping them from bolting on the stockies on the rears and driving around like that either. No government is actually going to SPEND money on keeping regular tabs on these "collectors" in the name of road safety.

If the average Australian is forced to spend more money keeping the average car age in Australia down, where does that money come from? Other business sectors will be affected as a result.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by motionless_xe

You could even put higher rego on the older cars thus making it more appealing for anyone unsure on making the trade.

Hmmmm, they tried this quite a few years back when the tax was increased on leaded petrol to ‘entice’ people to buy later model cars which ran on unleaded fuel.

All it did was increase the cost of motoring to those who could least afford it.

Originally Posted by motionless_xe

I'd be more than willing to pay a higher rego if it meant i could keep my car and drive it whenever i please.

WTF?
That’s why we pay rego in the first place. You may be willing to pay a higher rego fee so some executive at (place name of useless registration corporation here) can buy another ivory back scratcher, but I think you’re on your own.

[DJR-351]

GTP006

you say.....

If a BA (as the example) is $3k, a locally produced Fiesta might well be $800 and would fit the apprentice/single mum market would it not?

but i fail to see how this helps.....

getting people into newer, safer, more reliable cars

the death traps will still be there because no one will (pay to) maintain something that in ten years will be worthless, the first owner will probably keep it until the end of its warranty, then it will be a down hill slide to the crusher.

So how old is said Fiesta? and what sort of condition is it in? how long before the poor bastard has to look for another car????

The only way is compulsory roadworthys.....

All this is the MTA (new cars) on a money grabbing mission which is NOT supported by the Second hand car dealers and the majority of the puplic so far surveyed. (CH10 11:00)

[Smoke Pursuit]

This wouldnt mean much to me, i already turn them over too quick and do my ****.. all in the name of love really... i love having the latest thing...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

I will personally run over anyone who tries to implement this with my 1979 P6 daily driver. appeasement doesn't work, if you let them take Czechoslovakia they will just want Poland for desert. this hypothetical hitler needs to feel my bumper bar over-rider in his leg and my bonnet emblem in his chest.

Wow, such emotion. Just as well this is all just a fictional story that I made up, sort of like Neighbours but without the cute girls.

Do you know what would happen to you if you ACTUALLY attempted to murder the Prime Minister of Australia regardless of how righteous you think you are?

Originally Posted by Barry_v

'From my cold, dead hands!'

Yep, looks like you do.......

[greenfoam]

It's much more green to drive an old car (with cats) than have a new one made so it's nothing more than a bullsheit to boost the imaginary economy the world is living in and has been for a long time. I'm about to spend a couple of days rebuilding a old push bike I found rusting away under a tree just because it's the right thing to do. Rather than give the miners more money to dig more holes, wasting more resources people will want/need for more important things in the future and give China more money to make more smog to make another one, screw them I'll keep driving my car until it falls apart (then I'll buy another old one someone was going to throw out)

[Barry_v]

Originally Posted by flappist

Wow, such emotion.

you'd get the same response from dog owners when you suggest a ban on certain breeds because they are 'dangerous'.

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you know what would happen to you if you ACTUALLY attempted to murder the Prime Minister of Australia regardless of how righteous you think you are?

just as well it was a theoretical story, sort of like the jackal with more nazis.

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by GTP006

You haven't read my Oil Pump thread have you
But you are right to an extent, some part of the industry would suffer - exhaust shops for example. They lose the ability to sell a muffler to the same car 5 times in it's life, but on the other flip side, their Work Cover premiums would go down because their staff would not be slitting their wrists everytime they fit a milo-tin to a Civic.

How long do you think factory exhausts last ? I have a VN V6 here with 300,000 ks on it still has the original exhaust on it with not a spec of rust. In southern Victoria too! it's only once you change to an aftermarket one they break

[Smoke Pursuit]

Waiting for the White Territory Turbo gang to turn up right about now...

[JG66ME]

Flappist, I cannot believe you. We need less rules, not more control.

Natural attrition removes older cars.

Steve

[Scott]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

If a BA (as the example) is $3k, a locally produced Fiesta might well be $800 and would fit the apprentice/single mum market would it not?

but i fail to see how this helps.....

getting people into newer, safer, more reliable cars

the death traps will still be there because no one will (pay to) maintain something that in ten years will be worthless, the first owner will probably keep it until the end of its warranty, then it will be a down hill slide to the crusher.

So how old is said Fiesta? and what sort of condition is it in? how long before the poor bastard has to look for another car????

The only way is compulsory roadworthys.....

All this is the MTA (new cars) on a money grabbing mission which is NOT supported by the Second hand car dealers and the majority of the puplic so far surveyed. (CH10 11:00)

I think we're on different tangeants.

The hypopthetical concept, in my mind, is focussed on creating an environment whereby the Australian Auto Industry, and it's 60,000 employees, remain valid and sustainable.

In this case, the hypothetical scenario says that it will be cheaper to buy new cars than it is now, so much so that the equations for turn over mean that fairly new cars will be very cheap at around 5 years old.

The Fiesta cited above would be a 5 year old car at the time of its value being $800. At 5 years old, even if it has had zero maintenance, it would need simple things like pads & tyres and that's about it. The structural integrity of a new car will be just as good in 5 years, and just as good in 10 years regardless of maintenance - I don't see too many rusted out AU I's on the road. The gap in safety features would be far less than the cavernous gap back to an old Lazer.

Mandatory RWC inspections will not stimulate a whole industry into instant viability and is not sympathetic to the premise of the hypothetical - it will however improve current safety on road through making sure brakes & tyres are good, not so much for making sure that a car has airbags and a suitable occupant safety cell. Perhaps mandatory RWC after 5 years married with this type of idea would get closer to the goal.

I don't care how well maintained a 25 year old Meteor or Camira is, by todays standard they are death traps. Not only if they hit a tree but if you drove a new Mondeo head on into a Camira, you probably needn't bother checking one car for survivors.

But speaking of tangeants again, I am on a "buy Australian one" and thinking of how we get there, the safety matter (and green/ness) is simply a sideline benefit.

I buy new cars [more often than not] and I know what it costs me to do so. Slashing the bum out of new car prices would save me money and promote lots of jobs in the process. Newish used cars would be very affordable and the single mums would have ABS, Airbags, DST/ESP, a windscreen that won't turn into razor blades, pre-tensioned seatbelts etc etc etc.

Whilst there are bugs in this hypothetical [maybe 20yr instead of 10yr etc] there is a lot of merit too.

The thing is to think about ways to stengthen OUR industries and keep OUR brothers/friends/wives/kids in jobs - this time the example is cars, next time it could be furniture or clothing.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by flappist

Points:

Tasmania:

How do you drive is any direction for 300km without drowning? How many kms on your vintage vehicles?

Cars:
No I do not know of any 3 year old cars that have been driven for 10 years without cost but I DO know of several 10 year old cars that still have the original tyres on them.

Safety:
If the vehicle emerging from the side road is a cement truck and you are doing 100km/h do you really want to be in your old technology Galaxie, tyres locked up skidding out of control and getting a dent in the front that you can gaze upon while choking on your own blood after you are impaled on the steering column? Or would you prefer to actually stop or if you do impact, crawl out of your totally stuffed metal mess, dust off all the powder from the airbags, clean your undies and ring for a taxi?

geez get over yourself, abs will make you stop worse than if you have just have good brake control, 72's had a collapsible steering column. And your tasmania joke wasnt even funny.

[HSV587]

Originally Posted by xy500

geez get over yourself, abs will make you stop worse than if you have just have good brake control, 72's had a collapsible steering column. And your tasmania joke wasnt even funny.

Being a Tasmanian,we are extremly thick skinned(all the scar tissue from havin our other head removed),so I find tasmanian jokes rather amusing,but brake control in a 72 galaxie?Heres how the brakes worked on the 72....depress brake pedal,light a smoke,take a few drags,scratch balls,take a sip on can of redbull,and hopefully it has stopped by the time i put the redbull down.....It isnt really a worry though,because in an accident,you can hit a wall,but the impact takes about 4 years to get from the front bumper to the firewall,so you can just step out while you are waiting for the bonnet to meet the windscreen.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by xy500

geez get over yourself, abs will make you stop worse than if you have just have good brake control, 72's had a collapsible steering column. And your tasmania joke wasnt even funny.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by flappist

bloody techie, you can keep your plastic crap, i'm glad im not in a world run by you

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Don't know about everyone else but a big part of why I drive (and why my wife is forced to drive) a large car is because of my thoughts that bigger is safer... that and RWD with lots of power is safer too. My next car will be a large 5 star car and my wifes will be 5 star at minimum too.

I agree the after the car the better for everyone. Too bad the government wont put in law minimum safety requirements that would take NEW unsafe cars off the road. Something like sedans/hatches need to be 5 stars, Utes need to be 4 stars and vans 3 stars. Over time this would increase the safety of cars.

..................

Guys this hypothetical came from the MTAA were it wouldn't be mandatory but was an option for people.

There is a thread on this on aff:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11254081

[Mr Hardware]

xy500 = the old man type i was referring to.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

xy500 = the old man type i was referring to.

hahaha yeah i'm so old, truth is new cars suck, they're not built to last. They're not made to outlast 10-15 years. You can still see model t's driving with their original engines, do you think you'll see Au's or B series cars lasting that long? 60's and 70's models are the best examples, buy anything with an old straight six and she'll just keep going with nothing but servicing. Anyone i know who bought newer cars, but not brand new, have had nothing but trouble, computer problems is a re-ocurring theme. Anything that is needed to be 100% reliable in places where garages aren't readily available, like in the bush, still run carbies.
The car industry is giving little incentive to lose all your investment to depreciation when you can't even keep a car for half a lifetime - which would be the only reason i would waste my money on a new car.

[388cube_edxr8]

too many numbers, far too complicated. flappist mate i think your on the right track here but this needs to be thought out a bit more.

im sure with a pit of patience and thought we could come to an agreement here, but the problem is that if this was to be debated in parliament, all the pencil pushers and pedestrian no-lifes and prius drivers would kick up a stink about discimination and yadda yadda yadda political correctness crap.

first we need a govt that supports proactive new ideas without being afraid to lock the minorites (that we only listen to out of politeness) out of the office the debates are held in. then we can make progress as a country and begin to dig ourselves out of this financial hole.

yes i can get distracted easily.

[Gobes32]

People need to realize that no-one will be forced to not drive their car, rather it is an incentive based scheme to A. Stimulate new car sales, and B. Hopefully reduce the amount of un-roadworthy, polluting heaps of garbage you see on the road. If it so happens that your XA, XD, EA or so on is in great condition then keep driving it, if you cannot afford a new car and therefore cannot upgrade from your camira then that is fine. But if you own an oldish vehicle and were in the market for a new car then this might just be the incentive that gets you into a showroom.

[Michael_F90]

What a ridiculous idea... how bout us that use 'collectable cars' as daily drivers?? if this happened the only times u'd see nice old cars would be at car shows! And it definately wouldn't be helping the environment, think about how much more pollution is made in the production of new cars to fixing and keeping old cars on the road. If emmisions from tailpipes are so deadly why not raise the LPG grant so that it doesn't cost anything to convert your car.
A much better idea would just be to make sure older cars have roadworthy checks every couple of years.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Michael_F90

What a ridiculous idea... how bout us that use 'collectable cars' as daily drivers?? if this happened the only times u'd see nice old cars would be at car shows! And it definately wouldn't be helping the environment, think about how much more pollution is made in the production of new cars to fixing and keeping old cars on the road. If emmisions from tailpipes are so deadly why not raise the LPG grant so that it doesn't cost anything to convert your car.
A much better idea would just be to make sure older cars have roadworthy checks every couple of years.

Did you read the post above yours? No one will force you.............

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Did you read the post above yours? No one will force you.............

well that all depends on YOUR definition of polluting, unroadworthy heaps of garbage.