Ford Falcon four-cylinder..(My CommentHere We Go AGAIN!! This the last Falcon in OZ!!

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

5.6L AU motor was built here, as was the Boss 5.4 and so is the Miami 5.0L.
The fact that neither of them was available elsewhere but Australia, makes them Australian.

Missed the modify I see. Never mind.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Shhhhh ..... don't spoil his fun.

How much investment was made towards the 'Miami' project? I call it very Australian.

Just read the title of the thread ........... Where did it take a left hand turn?

Yup. We could go on with Aussie investment in foreign designed motors and all the associated stuff that follows, but that's pointless.

Time for the right hand turn to be made.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The first 245 hemi was fitted in 1969 to 2 VF's. In 1971, the 265 and 215 were born. Same strokes, just different bore sizes.

Yes, the hemi 6's are still legendary to this day. CAL did try and reduce fuel consumption and emission figures in 1978 or 79 with the introduction of the ELB system, but unfortunately the oil crisis of the era practically killed off the hemis. Of course there were other factors involved, but that's the crux of it.

Yes, they were great engines. I grew up with them. My Dad, (who drove like a Nanna which totally infuriated us) once got around 28MPG out of our 265 VG Valiant wagon on holiday. 30MPH up the hill, 75 MPH downhill. LOL. ELB was a great little setup which basically allowed the engine to advance the ignition curve a long way and then lean the mixture right out. But the Chrysler line was dated by 78 when the XD Falcon emerged, Chrysler USA were in deep doodoo, and so they jettisoned the profitable Australian side to Mitsubishi, who had it until the 380 failed. I believe the Londsdale plant is now Holden. I wonder when Ford will own it. LOL

Getting back on track (cos I feel kind of bad talking about Chrysler on a Ford forum) I think these Ecoboost (Ecoblast) engines will be terrific little motors. I can't wait to drive one.

What would make a great advert for the Ecoboost, is to have an FG 2.0L Ecoboost drag off an AU XR8. I bet it would and could. Imagine the message sent to the public. 4cyl economy with V8 power!!!!!!!!!!

[AC]

Originally Posted by TMC

What would make a great advert for the Ecoboost, is to have an FG 2.0L Ecoboost drag off an AU XR8. I bet it would and could. Imagine the message sent to the public. 4cyl economy with V8 power!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't be the first time, Look at Bathurst in the late 80's.

Take one of these...



... Call it Ecoboost/Cosworth, everyones happy

[T-Pak Addict]

The Cosworth Falcon.... I Like it!!!!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by T-Pak Addict

The Cosworth Falcon.... I Like it!!!!

We have a winner!!!

[TMC]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

We have a winner!!!

Yes, yes, that's it. The Ecoblast Cosworth Falcon.

[Falc'man]

Foured Falcon FTW.

[RedHotGT]

I'm always stunned by the amount of threads that the '4cyl falcon' has dedicated to it...

The reality is - the world will still continue to spin if you cannot buy a 6cyl falcon...

The government will do what they can to support local industry - because if the project falls flat or doesn't take off - there will be a huge number of unemployed or nervous workers... not to mention some serious redundancy packages...

There will always be haters of new initiatives and ideas... usually for reasons that have no logic at all... and quite often by people who probably wouldn't have spent money in the first place...

If a 4cyl falcon does end up being produced... they'll trial it... and let the market prove the reality...
If it fails - it will be killed and a replacement will quickly follow...

Just incase you're confused... Ford build cars to sell... not to satisfy enthusiasts and nostalgic/history lovers...

Will be interesting to see what evolves...

[redman]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Foured Falcon FTW.

You have made my day! I am still grinning!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Foured Falcon FTW.

Very clever

[TheSneakiness]

Just one more year, and I may be able to get rid of the Monstro-Bus for either an EcoLPI or Ecoboost Falcon.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by loftie

Just in case you're confused... Ford build cars to sell... not to satisfy enthusiasts and nostalgic/history lovers...

Exactly...it's like how people complain bitterly at the lack of an XR8, but if you asked the vast majority of them "Oh, planning to buy one were you?", they will say no, couldn't afford one.
People like the idea of a V8 being available in the lineup, even if they themselves will never be in a position to afford one or be able to buy one.
I was part of the Street Machine magazine "V8's till '98" campaign, organising petitions to send in to the magazine to be forwarded on to Holden when it looked like they might be going to drop the V8 like Ford had a few years earlier in the XE. However, it's only a few months back that we actually bought our first V8, an old WB ute with a sweet little 253 in it. Up until now haven't been in a position to afford a V8, and could't justify the expense of one as a daily driver (even now I wouldn't as a daily). That's a long time from actively trying to save an engine and finally buying a car with one in, even as a part-timer, and is only because I'm in a good economic position now. If I hadn't got the job I'm in now, I still would be waiting for "my first V8".

Same with the possible eventual demise of the old six...those of us more than five minutes old have seen it all before, with the death of the much-loved Holden six, and before that, the death of the magnificent Chrysler Hemi six. Time moves on, new engines are developed, and capacities that we once called "tiny" are now normal and make more power than V8's of twenty years ago. That's progress...

[jpd80]

Remember that this is still a generation 1 Ecoboost 2.0, by the time we get to 2017
a generation 3 Ecoboost 1.6 could well be putting out similar power and torque.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by loftie

If a 4cyl falcon does end up being produced... they'll trial it... and let the market prove the reality...
If it fails - it will be killed and a replacement will quickly follow...

I don't know wether that was a typo or what, but the Ecoboost Falcon goes into production Feb and cars will be in showrooms in March.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by TMC

OK, seeing that we are talking about 70, 80's inline sixes, the best inline six IMHO was not a Ford or a Holden. It was the Chrysler Hemi 6, another aussie designed and built engine first seen in 1970 as the 245, then in 71 came out as the 265 and small economy pack 215. The standard 265 was a 203BHP engine and would drag off a Holden 308 Monaro. In fully tuned form in 1972 was the 302BHP E49 6pack, the most powerful production 6 cylinder in the world at the time. It had a hemi head which wasn't seen in a Ford until the EA, and never seen in a Holden 6. Those motors had torque and power and revability (Wheels magazine tested a bog stock 245 Hemi ranger and revved the thing to 7000 rpm in first in their test.) and for their day were unbeatable sixes. Pity Chrysler and Mitsubishi stuffed the whole aussie thing up.

Ford came into their own with the alloy head X flows in the early 80's while Holden were just putting a 12 port head on their six!!!!!! You know Chrysler and Ford had 12 port six cylinder heads back in the 60's 20 years before Holden.

This is my recollection of the Holden 6 cylinders. You could fix them with a hammer and fencing wire. They were very much loved by the Holden faithful. The red motor had a harmonic balancer which flew to pieces. In fact the pulley to drive the fan belt which ran the alternator and water pump was mounted directly onto the outer ring of the harmonic balancer by a press fit ring of rubber. Often the timing mark would slip around and you had no idea how to time the damn thing with a light.

The 202 was actually stretched too far in capacity because when they lengthened the stroke from the 179 they just whacked in shorter pistons meaning the piston skirt was too short for the piston to stay true in the bore, so they often rattled and then cracked the top off the piston. This was a common fault. They had oil prime problems with an external oil pump and quite often seized journals and threw rods out the side of the block. They were bad on fuel and made about 140BHP in the HQ. In the HX when emission controls came out they were even worse.

The blue motor introduced the 12 port head in the early 80's and yes this was a better engine. But a 12 port engine should have come out in the 60's, but Holden were still running the grey motor then, an engine from 1930's GM design.

The black motor was plagued with rings that wore out after 100000km requiring a full engine rebuild. To be honest you don't see too many VB, VC Commodores on the road anymore, but there are still a lot of XF's out there still.

Of course this is merely my opinion, others would forgive the faults I mentioned above and love those engines anyway, which is fine, but I didn't love them. Somehow though the Holden faithful did love them. No crime in that though, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but they were my least favourite 6 cylinders.

The Ford offerings were far from perfect back in the 80's, but if I wanted a torquey six to tow a boat, I'd choose a Ford 6, or a Ford V8.

Great post. Being raised on the Aussie 6's, I can relate to much of what you said about the Holden, and loved them despite the flaws. Once, a pin in the oil pump failed so I took a fuse out from under the dash, smashed it, and inserted the metal end into the pin hole. Problem solved: they sure were fixable. Once I had a fuel pump go, took the top off the carby, fed it fuel, re-tightened, and motored this way up a hill to the servo to fix it properly. The harmonic balancers would wobble notoriously, and the 202 had a rep of burning out valves in the tropics.

Having had the great Chrysler 6 as well, I liked it, it was a ball tearer, but harsh. It would regularly flog Holden V8's, particularly the little '253'. To be honest I enjoyed the XY 250 the most of any motor of that era, so much torque low down, so smooth, and such a nice note. Yes, it ran out of puff, but that was what the 2V was for. With the stock 250, you could really let it drop low in the revs in a manual car in second, and it would just pull away. Third could almost pull from idle. It was totally Aussie designed by Ford to be the all round everyman's 6, and if you look at sales figures from the 70's, they succeeded brilliantly, taking top spot in the XB run.

All these motors were very simple to tune and maintain in an age before electronic interfacing.

[bigsta]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Carsguide strikes again. They cannot do an article on Falcon without adding their assumption that Falcon is finished and putting that in the there.

They go out of their way to do it everytime.

They also had a picture of a VW Scirroco attached to the article in the Herald Sun, with a caption saying it was an Ecoboost Falcon.

agreed they are a bunch of idiots at carsguide and caradvice.

its a great car the falcon, I know its hard in the current climate with the strong AUD but i wish they would push it overseas as there is only a handful of decent RWD platforms in the world really and 2 of the best are made right here.

[svo supporter]

Then heavens forbid, back in the 80's someone discovered you could use a Ford crank in a Holden engine. Nice piece of engineering doing that.

IMA, never driven a car with one of these strokers YET, but by the middle of next year, I will be.

[jpd80]

Wanna know something crazy, one of my many cars years ago was a 4.9 litre XD Falcon,
standard power and torque was 140 Kw @4500 and 344nm @ 3,000, less than Ecoboost....

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Wanna know something crazy, one of my many cars years ago was a 4.9 litre XD Falcon,
standard power and torque was 140 Kw @4500 and 344nm @ 3,000, less than Ecoboost....

The "last of the big bangers", the 351 in the XE-ESP, only put out 149kw...

Selective memory loss makes us forget how fast these things weren't in factory trim, but remember in every detail the fruity exhaust of one with a well made twin system...

[TMC]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The "last of the big bangers", the 351 in the XE-ESP, only put out 149kw...

Selective memory loss makes us forget how fast these things weren't in factory trim, but remember in every detail the fruity exhaust of one with a well made twin system...

Were those figures worked out the same way they are today? I seem to remember a different way to measure things happened in the late 70's early 80's that basically had all accessories bolted to the engine with full exhaust system. Is that how they dyno things now?

Also, once you threw away most of the factory gear on a 351 it really took off. In factory guise it was a lazy old thing. Pull off the 300 km of emission control vacuum lines on it and throw a good cam and a holley on and she was off.

My old Clevo had a roller cam and rockers, Redline single plane that you could look at the intake valves with the carby off, and Chevy 4340 pushrods believe it or not, as they were the only ones with the correct length for my altered valvetrain geometry. According to the computer it was 560HP (418kW) at 6200rpm and 520lb/ft (700Nm) at 5200 RPM. I loved that thing. That thing would have left a Phase 3 standing.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by TMC

Were those figures worked out the same way they are today? I seem to remember a different way to measure things happened in the late 70's early 80's that basically had all accessories bolted to the engine with full exhaust system. Is that how they dyno things now?

Yes, the DIN method measures a fully dressed engine with exhaust.

Also, once you threw away most of the factory gear on a 351 it really took off. In factory guise it was a lazy old thing. Pull off the 300 km of emission control vacuum lines on it and throw a good cam and a holley on and she was off.

Been there done that several times 30 years ago.

My old Clevo had a roller cam and rockers, Redline single plane that you could look at the intake valves with the carby off, and Chevy 4340 pushrods believe it or not, as they were the only ones with the correct length for my altered valvetrain geometry. According to the computer it was 560HP (418kW) at 6200rpm and 520lb/ft (700Nm) at 5200 RPM. I loved that thing. That thing would have left a Phase 3 standing.

Nice combo, similar numbers to current Boss 335 with tune.....

With our Ecoboost 2.0, performance mods will be limited at first but people find a way,
heck a nice tune and maybe 240 Kw is enough to keep team red guessing....

[2011G6E]

"Fully dressed engine with exhaust"...which is a perfectly fair and realistic way to advertise engine power, as that's the actual engine you get from the factory in your car, not something sitting on an engine stand with no alternator or exhaust...

[vztrt]

Ford still measure in DIN.

Edit: Actually Falcon motors are measured in DIN. I see the Focus is measured in ISO.

Double edit: Ecoboost in the states is measured by SAE Net power.

From Wiki:

SAE net power

In the United States, the term bhp fell into disuse in 1971-72, as automakers began to quote power in terms of SAE net horsepower in accord with SAE standard J1349. Like SAE gross and other brake horsepower protocols, SAE Net hp is measured at the engine's crankshaft, and so does not account for transmission losses. However, the SAE net power testing protocol calls for standard production-type belt-driven accessories, air cleaner, emission controls, exhaust system, and other power-consuming accessories. This produces ratings in closer alignment with the power produced by the engine as it is actually configured and sold.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford still measure in DIN.

Edit: Actually Falcon motors are measured in DIN. I see the Focus is measured in ISO.

Double edit: Ecoboost in the states is measured by SAE Net power.

From Wiki:

ISO basically replaced DIN standards and the USA's use of SAE Net approximates the European figures

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Sometimes, csv8, I'm glad you don't post links cos in this instance these clowns don't deserve hits to their site.

Here here. It's the kind of nonsense that makes me burn with rage.... and upset that people can be soooooo painfully stupid.

[jpd80]

They want so badly for it to be just like Commodore four, they want it so bad but they can't fault it
because the one thing they want to point to as wrong is so right, it burns their nuts that the little
Ecoboost I-4 works so well in the Falcon, and it scares them because it might just work...

I-6 buyers won't be threatened by it because it is so different, they will see it as
a better Mondeo, it's really just basically more like a 21st century Cortina....

[AC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

They want so badly for it to be just like Commodore four, they want it so bad but they can't fault it
because the one thing they want to point to as wrong is so right, it burns their nuts that the little
Ecoboost I-4 works so well in the Falcon, and it scares them because it might just work...

I-6 buyers won't be threatened by it because it is so different, they will see it as
a better Mondeo, it's really just basically more like a 21st century Cortina....

This!

[TMC]

A 21st century Cortina with 240kW in HP mode. Yeeaaahhhhhh.

[geckoGT]

Let's try and keep this on topic thanks, which is ecoboost 4 if you can't remember.