AFL Grand Final: St. Kilda v Geelong

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

for those who say that geelong 'deserve' it, why do you say that.

I say the Cats deserved to win because they took their opportunity when they had them in the GF (even if they were outplayed). Saints threw it away in the first half and the Cats capitalised and won.

As for before the Grand Final then that comment doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Teflon Turbo

umpires have murdered afl footbal

The AFL has murdered AFL football.

[Trek]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

its very arrogant to say "we/they deserved it" IMO...Anyone who says that obviously doesnt get out much beyond their regular routine.

So I take it you stalk every forum member/have cameras set up everywhere? :

I get out plenty, however, that's besides the point.

The reason as to why I said what I said it because to turn the game around in the way Geelong did meant that they deserved victory in that respect, not deserving before the game even started. No arrogance came with that statement whatsoever, but you can believe what you want. Hell, either team could have won the Grand Final before the ball was first bounced and would have deserved victory for their efforts, but being behind in the first three quarters and turning the table against a worthy rival in the way they did was something special.

[Romulus]

I think St Kilda had no one to blame but themselves for the loss. Their goal kicking accuracy was poor which cost them the game. No more, no less.

[prydey]

english is a funny language. speaking of 'deserve'. both teams deserved to be in the GF. they were the 2 standout teams all year. i guess when the final siren went, you could say Geelong 'deserved' the win on the day as they made the most of the opportunities. (half the inside 50's). my comments in an earlier post were more about the season. if you win 20 games in a season, you deserve to be premiers but its up to the team to make that happen, the way the afl system works. in no way was i out to pick arguments with geelong fans/supporters. i don't barrack for either side but i felt that there was a general feeling (not just on here) that only 1 team truly deserved to win. personally i even thought the commentators tone changed (stepped up a notch) whenever geelong got there hands on it but that may have been due to me wanting saints to win.

the umpiring was applauded at the end but there were some shockers. i think it was schneider, had his pants literally nearly pulled off while chasing the ball toward goal (not in possession) and there's no whistle. surely it was holding. some of the deliberate out of bounds calls. holding the ball.... don't get me started.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

I think St Kilda had no one to blame but themselves for the loss. Their goal kicking accuracy was poor which cost them the game. No more, no less.

Im a saints supporter and I agree. We didn't deserve it at all after that performance. God its a kick in the balls, St.Kilda have to be one of the most talented teams over the last 10 years (on and off) and they have nothing but heart ache to show for it. Looks like our down period is coming up again!

If R.Clarke and S. Milne are on the list next year I will be spewing, its never one players fault, but both these two stuffed up all day long and it cost goals.

[Teflon Turbo]

let me say this (boldly), had the saints, in the last 5 years been in the hands of leigh mathews, blighty even alves, they would have won 5 grannies in a row.

one of the most gifted list in recent times has been squandered and wasted with the likes of watson and thompson.

really a shame, the blame has to go back further.

hard to see them not contest another granny next year.

[uranium_death]

Firstly, Chapman does not do 'more good' than Ablett.
They are different players. Chapman works in bursts whereas Ablett works hard throughout the entire game. Chapman is a better kick and mark, but Ablett breaks tackles and the lines far better....

Secondly, it was a great game. Neither team deserved to lose on what we saw. AFL Football is not about being the best all year. It is about making it into the Grand Final, and playing better on the day. THe last two years, the team that has finished on top has not won due to not taking their opportunities when presented.

With scores level, Zac Dawson in the centre took a risk (which in the context, was the right thing to do) but it didn't go his way....SCarlett kicked the ball to Ablett, Ablett pumped it, Varcoe handball to Chapman and goal. It could have easily gone the other way and St Kilda could have led.

St Kilda had too good a year to not be stung by what happened yesterday. As a kid growing up for Geelong, I went through 3 Grand Final losses by the time I was 12 (wasn't barracking in 89), and 94-95 really hurt, so I know that as Mark Thompson said, 'Football sucks sometimes", and it's true.

After last year's result and Andrew Gaze talking his usual pile of garbage on SEN on Tuesday mornings and the rest of the "expert" media willing to question Geelong, I just wanna say:

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im a saints supporter and I agree. We didn't deserve it at all after that performance. God its a kick in the balls, St.Kilda have to be one of the most talented teams over the last 10 years (on and off) and they have nothing but heart ache to show for it. Looks like our down period is coming up again!

St Kilda would have deserved it, even if you did scrape through.
A couple of bad umpiring decisions (hit the bloody post) as well as the passage of play that resulted in the Chapman goal.
St Kilda should have won by at least three goals, but the conditions didn't help.

I think yesterday's game showed that once again, there is no justice in football.

[Teflon Turbo]

fair call uranium death and rightly so! (i was responding to post #97)

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by prydey

my comments in an earlier post were more about the season. if you win 20 games in a season, you deserve to be premiers but its up to the team to make that happen, the way the afl system works. ...but i felt that there was a general feeling (not just on here) that only 1 team truly deserved to win.

Agreed.
However, the current system is unfair (22 rounds).
Each team must play each other twice (as per the EPL), and only then can the true top team be determined.

As before, both teams deserved to win on the performance yesterday...neither deserved to lose.
St Kilda only finished two wins ahead on the ladder which is not extraordinary, and only beat Geelong by a goal earlier in the year. St Kilda was not miles ahead of everybody else, despite their consecutive games run. In today's competition, it is so even, as long as you can compete and work hard, you're always a chance. Back in the 80s when teams would buy their teams, it was easy to stay on top. Between 1967-1983, only four teams won the flag. Since 1990, 11 teams have won the flag. It is harder to dominate now.

Add in the conditions, it was always going to be a dour struggle, especially given that St Kilda don't allow high scoring matches often.

It will go down as a great contest, but not a great spectacle, much like the 2005 and 2006 Grand Finals.

[Wally]

Pretty average game really, not enough mongrel for a GF.,, bring back Dermy, Dippa and the Scott brothers.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Wally

Pretty average game really, not enough mongrel for a GF.,, bring back Dermy, Dippa and the Scott brothers.

There is a big difference between mongrel and thuggery.

I thought it was a good, clean, honest contest (except for Milburn's 'touched' call) and was a good Grand Final...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

St Kilda would have deserved it, even if you did scrape through.
A couple of bad umpiring decisions (hit the bloody post) as well as the passage of play that resulted in the Chapman goal.
St Kilda should have won by at least three goals, but the conditions didn't help.

I think yesterday's game showed that once again, there is no justice in football.

Hmm yes but here is a stat that killed us. St Kilda did not kick a goal in the last quarter.

Based on that alone they didn't deserve it and Geelong lifted when they needed to.

Ah im still hurting...LOL

[My poor XF]

What a game, drove over from Adelaide and wasn't disappointed! Such a tight contest and exactly the sort of football that makes our game great.

The feeling at the final siren when the cats won such a tough game is indescribable and the night in geelong is one to remember. Bad luck to the saints an almost carbon copy of what geelong did against hawthorn last year.

GO CATTERS!!

[Trevor 57]

As a very very long time St. Kilda supporter, ( I listened to our one and only GF win in '66) I am gutted, BUT Geelong didn't win it, we lost it with some very very poor kicking, if we had of got that right we would have blown Geelong out of the water, we had heaps more possessions all day, lead at each quarter, but couldn't follow through.

It was a fantasic game of footy, one that was appropriate for a Grand Final - a tough battle all day. Too and fro all game

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Geelong didn't win it, we lost it

And that is why footy is great when you win, and sucks when you lose.

St Kilda could have almost had it won at 3/4 time (given the conditions)...

But the players will benefit from the loss. They know how hard it is to get there, and they will work hard to ensure it doesn't happen again.

The coaches can also see who will win them a flag, and who flops.

Milne has been absent in all finals, and many others on the list need to be reviewed...

[Polyal]

I still dont know what Lyon has against hutchneson and Macguire (where they injured?). Both are/we gun players.

Milne needs to go, he only steps up when we are killing a team, cant kick off the mark and cant handle pressure.

When his hot his almost unstoppable, but 1 in 10 matches is not good enough.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Milne needs to go, he only steps up when we are killing a team, cant kick off the mark and cant handle pressure.

When his hot his almost unstoppable, but 1 in 10 matches is not good enough.

This is true. As a short term solution for St Kilda I really think they should look at Nathan Brown, he'd slot right into that forward line I reckon

[peachey80]

WHAT A GAME !!!!! Spent stupid amounts of money to watch them go down last year, went over again this year...... oh was it worth it !!!!

Yes StKilda did waste there opportunities. BUT ! Had they kicked one of those goals, the game would have been completely different, as they had numourous amouts of shots from a kick in from a behind. Had they kicked a goal, it would have been bounced from the centre, and the whole game changes, so you can't really say that had they kicked those straight they would have won, because they wouldn't have had all those chances.
In saying all that they did have alot more of the ball in the first 3 quarters. Hawkins goal wasn't a goal. But the equaliszer was the gimme in the goal square just before half time.

The Saint's will be back next year, no doubt. I think they need to look at Milne. Yes he can be a game breaker for the Saints, but he was the game breaker against them on Sat, and hasn't done much 3-4 weeks earlier. I do feel for the Saints fans, being so long between drinks, but as I said, they'll be back.


GO CATS !!!

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I still dont know what Lyon has against hutchneson and Macguire (where they injured?). Both are/we gun players.

Dawson had been in the team all year so they couldnt just drop him for Hudghton. They won 20 games so he was obviously doing a decent job.
Hudghton is now retired anyway so he aint coming back.

[azaxr8]

another grand final marked as one of the greatest. Yet i've forgotten about it already. bring on next year. 2010 Year of the lions!

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Geelong didn't win it, we lost it

I understand what you are saying but it just sound's like sour grapes, If Stevie J had fired up then you would never be in the contest..... It goes both ways. At the end of the day, St Kilda did what Geelong did last year, and much like Stewie Dew kicking some vital goals, we had Chappy when it mattered. And that was the difference on the day, Chappy kicked the goals that Milne missed, chin up, you guys will be back next year with a vengeance.....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I understand what you are saying but it just sound's like sour grapes

Of course it is sour grapes, I am as plssed off as anything I can tell you

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Of course it is sour grapes, I am as plssed off as anything I can tell you

Yeah, I was the same last year...

Mind you, Geelong finished like four games ahead of Hawthorn plus percentage last year...there was a larger gap.

But St Kilda was slowing down in the finals...like we did last year.

As before, you'll be better for the experience and heartache.

[Trevor 57]

I listened to our only win in 1966 on the radio and this was by far our best chance and they blew it.

[cool65]

As an ex (Carlton) cheer squad member, I saw that Geelong stayed with a plan, whereas St. Kilda could not play their normal "keepings off" game that has saved their butts a few times this year.

[BENT_8]

Sorry for the late reply but been away from the puter for a week.

Well done Geelong but i dont think they won anything.

Unfortunately there is a new hidden stat that is deciding games....unpaid free's.
And as they dont get counted it can be manipulated unlike free's for and against.
The stats from that game showed free's for both sides almost even at the end of the game, but the whistle went away at half time and blatant holding the ball/ incorrect disposal decisions were left unpaid.
When you tackle as well as Stkilda do, holding the ball decisions usually come your way.

Dont believe me, believe Luke Darcy, who stated in the 1HD telecast at the end of the game that it was definately umpired in two halves and that he believed someone spoke to the umpires at half time and told them to let stuff slide.
BTW, he's on the rules commitee, so i think his opinion counts.

Geelong were able to take more chances as holding the ball/incorrect disposal wasn't hurting them as it did early.

Teams have been winning games for years with scoring inaccuracies, all of a sudden it is a big issue.

[prydey]

one telling decision for me was with about 5 min to go in final 1/4, scores level, the ball went into saints forward 50, schneider (i think) was chasing and the geelong defender clearly had a big handful of his shorts. ball was not in possession and was clearly a free for mine but it went play on. the ball rebounded rather quickly down the other end for a goal.

having said that, i was watching the game with st kilda glasses on, as i don't like geelong

[peachey80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sorry for the late reply but been away from the puter for a week.

Well done Geelong but i dont think they won anything.

Unfortunately there is a new hidden stat that is deciding games....unpaid free's.
And as they dont get counted it can be manipulated unlike free's for and against.
The stats from that game showed free's for both sides almost even at the end of the game, but the whistle went away at half time and blatant holding the ball/ incorrect disposal decisions were left unpaid.
When you tackle as well as Stkilda do, holding the ball decisions usually come your way.

Dont believe me, believe Luke Darcy, who stated in the 1HD telecast at the end of the game that it was definately umpired in two halves and that he believed someone spoke to the umpires at half time and told them to let stuff slide.
BTW, he's on the rules commitee, so i think his opinion counts.

Geelong were able to take more chances as holding the ball/incorrect disposal wasn't hurting them as it did early.

Teams have been winning games for years with scoring inaccuracies, all of a sudden it is a big issue.

You obviously didn't see the score line at the end..... or the newspaper headlines..... or the premiership memorbilia.....
Pretty sure Geelong did win :
You get unpaid frees through the whole year, what makes you think they will get it 100% right on the grand final ?
Fact is you need to kick straight to get the extra 5 points, so yeah, that is an issue as Geelong also learned the hard way last year.

[TS50]

sounds like sour grapes to me
if you look at the first half, the game was over umpired
second half, the game was let flow more, the way the game is meant to be
And NO, I am not a Geelong supporter, I didnt care who won