Holden Beats Ford in US Cop Car Shootout

[ray38l]

Holden have admitted they were going after the small police departments first. Its not a bad plan considering there product is basically unknown compared to the competition. It will take a while for word to get out from real world testing whether good or bad.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ray38l

Holden have admitted they were going after the small police departments first. Its not a bad plan considering there product is basically unknown compared to the competition. It will take a while for word to get from real world testing whether good or bad.

Agree it's a very tough market but something people should understand is
that Chrysler is throwing V6 Chargers out there for $18,000 on State fleet
and the V8 Charger Crown Vic are both available for around $24,000.

The drop dead date for panthers is end of September when Saint Thomas plant
closes so that's when the flag really drops and we see whether Ford's new baby gets
orders or not. Dodge is already going for the throat with ultra cheap prices but their
quality and reliability are not there and most PDs are switching back to panthers.

What Ford is doing is offering the 3.5 AWD V6 Taurus as the standard PI,
it will be priced similar to the outgoing Crown Vic, the FWD PI units will be
slightly cheaper and the Ecoboost PI slightly dearer. Where Ford intends
making up ground on the competition is by offering the Explorer AWD PI Ute
in combination with the Taurus, the commonality of parts, performance
and handling will make the two of them almost irresistible to major fleets.

Truthfully, the Caprice PPV isn't on too many shopping lists at the moment
because police budgets are already strained to the limit and most like to
reuse their police equipment, hence the reorder of Crown Victoria but
better than that, Ford has designed the next Gen PIs to be able to use
much of the existing panther light bars and police equipment in new consoles.

That is where I see Ford marching all over Chrysler and GM....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ray38l

the same could be said about the people who as soon as something positive is written about holden have to go and find an article that is not so positive because obviously the first one was written by someone who is biased.

The first article was based solely on a lie, that the PPV easily won, when it didn't, it only matched the competition.

I posted the second link because it was truthful, not made up garbage.

I really couldn't care less about the PPV, good on Holden for trying, just stop blowing smoke up the publics ar** about how successful it is when the reality is quite different, so far they have only sent over a few hundred with not much in the way of orders. Its too expensive compared to the others and the high aussie dollar will only make it worse.

[svo supporter]

Just realised why Ford Australia didn't send any of their cars over for testing... To scared that a balljoint would fail, or the boot would rust pematurely, or even have a brake failure of some sort.

At the end of the day, good on Holden for having the gonades to send a car for testing and getting some sort of positive reaction. Be whether it was a load of crock or not.

Ford Australia don't have any gonades to send a car over period. Maybe because they were too scared they would get such a bad rap, that it'd destroy what little credibility they have left. Who knows.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Just realised why Ford Australia didn't send any of their cars over for testing... To scared that a balljoint would fail, or the boot would rust pematurely, or even have a brake failure of some sort.

At the end of the day, good on Holden for having the gonades to send a car for testing and getting some sort of positive reaction. Be whether it was a load of crock or not.

Ford Australia don't have any gonades to send a car over period. Maybe because they were too scared they would get such a bad rap, that it'd destroy what little credibility they have left. Who knows.

Detroit will not let Ford build Falcon in LHD, so why would they bother if they can't sell them over there.

If they had the option they would.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The first article was based solely on a lie, that the PPV easily won, when it didn't, it only matched the competition.

I posted the second link because it was truthful, not made up garbage.

I really couldn't care less about the PPV, good on Holden for trying, just stop blowing smoke up the publics ar** about how successful it is when the reality is quite different, so far they have only sent over a few hundred with not much in the way of orders. Its too expensive compared to the others and the high aussie dollar will only make it worse.

my comment wasn't just directed at this thread it was about the mentality on this forum that people seem to think anything the media say is biased towards holden. They are not. Ford need to give journalists positive stuff to talk about.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Just realised why Ford Australia didn't send any of their cars over for testing... To scared that a balljoint would fail, or the boot would rust pematurely, or even have a brake failure of some sort.

At the end of the day, good on Holden for having the gonades to send a car for testing and getting some sort of positive reaction. Be whether it was a load of crock or not.

Ford Australia don't have any gonades to send a car over period. Maybe because they were too scared they would get such a bad rap, that it'd destroy what little credibility they have left. Who knows.

You make me laugh, you have nothing positive to say about Ford Australia EVER, Yes Ford have had issues but then again so have holden, Piston slap anybody,seatbelt issues,steering problems and many more infact I recall Holden having a lot more recalls than Ford .

Out of curiosity why do you call yourself SVO supporter?, because you definately do not support Ford.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by stang65

You make me laugh, you have nothing positive to say about Ford Australia EVER, Yes Ford have had issues but then again so have holden, Piston slap anybody,seatbelt issues,steering problems and many more infact I recall Holden having a lot more recalls than Ford .

Out of curiosity why do you call yourself SVO supporter?, because you definately do not support Ford.

When ever a thread pops up with a hint of Holden in it, too many people jump on it and say how crap they really are, or the media is biased towards that brand, yada yada yada. Perfect example is this thread.

Problem seems to extend from people that have never owned anything but a Ford. And because they've never owned anything but that brand, all the others must be crap, or something along those lines.

As for supporting the brand. I'm not biased towards either. I own both brands. Both brands have their good points and their bad ones.

In the case of this thread, Holden are trying to expand on their export market, where Ford Aust isn't. Yet there are members on here saying what a waste of time it is. (Or words to that effect)

Recently there was a thread on this forum, getting members suggestions on how Ford Aust could improve their production. Export is a good area, however if you read this thread, what a waste of time that would be.

So instead of all this negativity towards Holden, why not congratulate the company as a whole for trying to build their business up, instead of saying the media is full of it. And perhaps Ford Aust should take a leaf out of their book and then they might end up having a bigger slice of the export pie.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

When ever a thread pops up with a hint of Holden in it, too many people jump on it and say how crap they really are, or the media is biased towards that brand, yada yada yada. Perfect example is this thread.

Problem seems to extend from people that have never owned anything but a Ford. And because they've never owned anything but that brand, all the others must be crap, or something along those lines.

As for supporting the brand. I'm not biased towards either. I own both brands. Both brands have their good points and their bad ones.

In the case of this thread, Holden are trying to expand on their export market, where Ford Aust isn't. Yet there are members on here saying what a waste of time it is. (Or words to that effect)

Recently there was a thread on this forum, getting members suggestions on how Ford Aust could improve their production. Export is a good area, however if you read this thread, what a waste of time that would be.

So instead of all this negativity towards Holden, why not congratulate the company as a whole for trying to build their business up, instead of saying the media is full of it. And perhaps Ford Aust should take a leaf out of their book and then they might end up having a bigger slice of the export pie.

And what has that export pie handed Holden over the past 7 years?

Losses far greater than Ford Australia has suffered by being a stay at home manufacturer.

What is the point in having exports?
If it is purely to make up sufficient numbers for factory volume then maybe
the original business plan does not hold water, the whole reason Holden is
building Cruze here is because they now realise that exporting large RWD
vehicles doesn't work and that the Factory needs to be sustained by local volume.

The last time Holden Exported to the USA, they lost over $200 million,
they now want to chase after dog eat dog sales of police squad cars
and have borrowed another $200 million to do so. So please excuse
my skepticism whilst Holden now attempts to justify this latest venture.

And just because we dare be critical of Holden's export business plans does not
give anyone the right to assume we are therefore un-Austrailan or anti-Holden.
Ive owned several Commodore in my time, it has nothing to do with the brand,
if Ford was trying to export Fairlanes as squad cars for a cut price same dollars,
then I would savage them too as that business case does not hold water either.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And what has that export pie handed Holden over the past 7 years?

Losses far greater than Ford Australia has suffered by being a stay at home manufacturer.

What is the point in having exports?
If it is purely to make up sufficient numbers for factory volume then maybe
the original business plan does not hold water, the whole reason Holden is
building Cruze here is because they now realise that exporting large RWD
vehicles doesn't work and that the Factory needs to be sustained by local volume.

The last time Holden Exported to the USA, they lost over $200 million,
they now want to chase after dog eat dog sales of police squad cars
and have borrowed another $200 million to do so. So please excuse
my skepticism whilst Holden now attempts to justify this latest venture.

And just because we dare be critical of Holden's export business plans does not
give anyone the right to assume we are therefore un-Austrailan or anti-Holden.
Ive owned several Commodore in my time, it has nothing to do with the brand,
if Ford was trying to export Fairlanes as squad cars for a cut price same dollars,
then I would savage them too as that business case does not hold water either.

Falcon will die without exports. Period.

[Polyal]

Not necessarily, if GWRD gets the go then I still think that we can use the platform/chassis/powertrains and perhaps have a localized style...thats about the only hope IMO.

Holden is doing what they do best, atleast promoting themselves as number one. They have better sales at the moment so you make the most of it, its just as important to be seen as successful than it is to be successful. Otherwise why would someone buy your product? Thats why all the talk, even though GMH are chasing shadows, is still a good thing for them.

Just dont ask their accountants for the real story.

[burnz]

holdens usual export of caprices is around 12,000 units PA to the UAE (01/07)

2009/10 that dropped to around 2,600 units.. i can't see a problem in having a go at the U.S market.

[Perko]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not necessarily, if GWRD gets the go then I still think that we can use the platform/chassis/powertrains and perhaps have a localized style...thats about the only hope IMO.

Holden is doing what they do best, atleast promoting themselves as number one. They have better sales at the moment so you make the most of it, its just as important to be seen as successful than it is to be successful. Otherwise why would someone buy your product? Thats why all the talk, even though GMH are chasing shadows, is still a good thing for them.

Just dont ask their accountants for the real story.

Agree here totally. Ford Australia has proven over the years to be the best within the Ford Global group at doing great things within very small budgets. Examples like the Boss motor (like it or hate the motor, they did a good job of making a V8 when none was available), XR6T, Territory, and RWD handling have continually impressed Ford HQ. It is a shame that Dearborn seem more intent on protecting their own rather than looking at other options for platforms as GM has.

Ford Australia are doing a great job in development with the Ranger etc but we still fall over locally with RWD projects such as the Falcon. The market is tough and we have a great product that is passionately supported by its fans. In my opinion Ford Oz seem a little lost in how to market the Falcon and FPV and what direction they want or can go. Till this indecision, or preception of, is gone I think that Falcon will still struggle to reach the heights that we know it deserves.

Yes the Yank cop market is the ultimate commodity (low margins and potentially volume), BUT if you were able to showcase the RWD dynamics required then this could lead to Ford Australia heading the GRWD program and thus insuring the long term future of classic RWD's such as Falon and Mustang (not that Mustang is in danger). It's a risk but a risk that Holden are looking at long term. If they can prove to GM that they can make RWD that the US market can/will be happy with then maybe they will get a larger piece of the development pie. Maybe it could ensure that Commodore remains RWD. Unfortunately Ford Oz do not possess a vehicle that meets the police requirements so the talk of Fairlanes etc is pointless. But if I was at Ford Oz, I would get some of that Geoff Polites balls and shove Falcon right in front of Dearborn again. Whether it's a Holden or a Ford, Australia make the best RWD cars for their price full stop. Shows like Top Gear and Fifth Gear have been saying it for years. Just be nice for the Yanks to swollow some pride and let an Aussie show them how it's meant to be done.

Here ends the lesson.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And what has that export pie handed Holden over the past 7 years?

Losses far greater than Ford Australia has suffered by being a stay at home manufacturer.

What is the point in having exports?
If it is purely to make up sufficient numbers for factory volume then maybe
the original business plan does not hold water, the whole reason Holden is
building Cruze here is because they now realise that exporting large RWD
vehicles doesn't work and that the Factory needs to be sustained by local volume.

The last time Holden Exported to the USA, they lost over $200 million,
they now want to chase after dog eat dog sales of police squad cars
and have borrowed another $200 million to do so. So please excuse
my skepticism whilst Holden now attempts to justify this latest venture.

And just because we dare be critical of Holden's export business plans does not
give anyone the right to assume we are therefore un-Austrailan or anti-Holden.
Ive owned several Commodore in my time, it has nothing to do with the brand,
if Ford was trying to export Fairlanes as squad cars for a cut price same dollars,
then I would savage them too as that business case does not hold water either.

That 200 mill was given for alternative fuel research, not for them to export cars O/S All manufacturers had the opportunity to put their hand out for that government grant

[Bossxr8]

He's talking about the $200 million government line of credit Holden were offered to assist them to export.

Nothing to do with the green car innovation fund.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ray38l

my comment wasn't just directed at this thread it was about the mentality on this forum that people seem to think anything the media say is biased towards holden. They are not. Ford need to give journalists positive stuff to talk about.

But the article mentioned was quite clearly biased towards Holden as the results were misinterpreted to provide an outcome that wasn't true.

If thats not Holden biased I don't know what is. May not always be the case, but this time it clearly was.

And yes, Ford do need to provide the journos more postive stuff to talk about, it seems constantly negative press doesn't seem to bother them because they do bugger all to offset the negative with postive news. Fords marketing team strikes again

Clowns.

[Polyal]

Ive got a funny feeling one of the Holden boys above is actually our good mate Joshua Dowling ..its ok fella's, we can lose money but aslong as we look busy.

Its the automotive version of "ALT+TAB" when the boss is coming.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Holden is doing what they do best,

you've got to admire a company that can sell american product and still call itself australia's own. i don't care what brand you support, that's an amazing piece of marketing.
it's nothing new either. i believe it was the USA boss of GM who said he couldn't believe that australians were buying the HQ in such numbers, despite it's obvious shortcomings in handling and options

[Windsor220]

I dont think anyone here has an issue about Holden having a crack at the US market. We are just sick of the tripe that gets written about it.

The OP article is a perfect example. Yeah lets all congratulate Holden for trying to get into the US police market just forget that it got beaten by an American product and we'll just make it look like it won the comparo. Then we get all the "Why can't Ford Aus do this blah blah blah who cares if it didnt get exported blah blah blah lets see them waste money on a plan that won work to show they are doing something blah blah"

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But the article mentioned was quite clearly biased towards Holden as the results were misinterpreted to provide an outcome that wasn't true.

This.

Go back and read the LA County Sherrif's report about this test and tell me how the Caprice PPV comes out on top as a resounding winner - it doesn't. So why then did Drive say it beat everything else hands down? GoAuto agrees with me, and they are a far more credible automotive industry journal than Drivel will ever be:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257896001E6082

GM HOLDEN’S great US export hope, the re-badged Chevrolet Caprice Police Pursuit Vehicle, has shared line honours with Ford’s new Taurus-based Interceptor in the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department’s annual police vehicle trials.

[Buntz]

After all the building up the doom sayers gave the US Fords... and the caprice knocks them off.

What we do here in Australia is unique and worth preserving... if the Executives of Ford had half a brain, they'd save the Falcon. Which is probably what they are doing... but with all the nay saying, drive articles, and lack of decision from Ford (even postponing their decision on Falcon... so it can't be all that bad) It just seems like they are.