Great Wall Motors. Any good?

[JimNiki]

Well, as "tranquilized" said in a post above, they are coming.

They (Chinese) stock 95% of Kmart, Target, BigW, Harris Scarfe, etc here in Au. Now it's only the next natural step for them to take. They'll start off crappy with cars like they did with other stuff 20-30 years ago. So looking back, history will tell us that they will also have the lions share off the auto market in the next 20-30 years. Who will compete with them on price? I think Ford and Holden will become importers only who rebadge foreign made cars. Both are doing it more and more now anyway. How else will they survive?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by magoo66

Apples and oranges, the safety ratings of vehicles built a few years ago are completely irrelevant. They are only relevant when comparing vehicles from the same era and anybody currently driving or thinking of purchasing an older vehicle should know that they are not as safe as a new vehicle.

My main point of that list is that many of those saying these cars are crap, rubbish, death traps what ever are themselves driving or putting their kids into a car that would most probably come from that list ..... hence the glass house and stone throwing.

There are Standards here in Australia that will only allow cars that comply and these are very strict. These do comply with these standards .... they may not be everyones cup of tea but they do suit some and are an option for some small businesses who do not want to fork out double for a similar ute or something that might be 10 years old ..... but then that should be fairly obvious I would think

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Cars from over the world will be, and are now, built to cater for the Chinese market.

You think that they aren't doing it already? Ford have been doing it for the Indian market (designed here and built OS). It doesn't mean they will change a car and sell it here, China has a big enough market to have their own model.

[woteva]

Nothing on them from Europe that's for sure. If you buy one check the handbrake, and the seatbelts, and the reverse sensors...

[Mitcon]

I've not posted here much though been a member for a while, never saw this thread before.

Sure seems to be alot of people feeding fear based info and speculation about, it's sad to see Aussies feeding such stigmatisim. Do you know how much of your Aussie made cars or products are really made up of Chinese manufactured components?

I used to think I had a preference to Fords once upon a time, but I think out of all the cars I've owned Fords and Toyotas have given me the most headaches and have stung my wallet hardest.

What makes a Aussie made car so much better in quality or finish? China out does the US now in car manufacturing and sales and makes us here look like a spec of dust with our sales.

BTW those pics of that V240 aren't uptodate, I've done alot more to it since then lol. Flame away boys

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

What makes a Aussie made car so much better in quality or finish? China out does the US now in car manufacturing and sales and makes us here look like a spec of dust with our sales.

Well duh, it is now the biggest market in the world and is still growing. There's tons of opportunity for money to be made, do you think companies will sit on their hands? Also you'll find most companies will set up manufacturing in China because there is a high tarrif to import (like Australia in the 1920's).

[JimNiki]

Do you know how much of your Aussie made cars or products are really made up of Chinese manufactured components?

We understand that ..but an Australian designed and made car should be more reliable due to our commitment to R&D and other high manufacturing standards.

Hence the higher price... you get what you pay for?...
So all of a sudden the cheaper chinese labour cost means nothing if you're buying a cheaper polished ****.

[Mitcon]

You would think so, or at least hope so, but the amount we spend on such things is a mere piddle compared to what the Chinese are spending. They have much, much greater number than we will ever cater for.

The other matter also remains that a great deal of Aussie designs are actually manufactured in China, along with some of the highest quality european brand names.

China will provide whatever quality is asked of them, they can and do provide some world class leading quality and tech. The only reason they also make cheap crap is because it's asked of them by countries such as our own by demanding lower prices and higher wages.

They have a better education system, heck companies like Great wall have their own uni's I belive.

Once upon a time yes we used to get what we paid for, these days most companies rely on a trusted name to keep sales more so than a standard of quality.

That said the last Aussie designed/made vehicle I had has bene one of the lowest quality vehicles I have owned. The fit and general finish was horrid even, I had so many problems I couldn't even bring myself to sell it to a individual and so I just sold it to a wholesaler.

[Mitcon]

I think the only thing you can rely on with Aussie designed/made vehicles is the high price due to us demanding higher wages etc. How and why do you think Australia has lost so much of it's labour to countries like China ? We have done it ourselves by constantly demanding less work, more wages and cheaper purchase prices.

I guess it's like the saying, be careful of what you ask for

[ltd]

Well, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences.
* When the F250 came over here, a couple of my American friends told me how good they were and how bullet proof the 7.3 powerstroke was. I believed them.
* When Hyundai came over here we all laughed about how crap they were and how each should come with a lifetime subscription to prozac; until a mate from school of Korean background told me how they were new at cars and built industrial machinery. Then the newer bubble car model came out and they were a raging success.
* I also recall my response to a colleague in 1998 when the AU was first out and he quipped "What an ugly piece of junk". I quickly told him of the AU's underlying strengths in the drivetrain, its interior comfort etc etc. He ended up buying a fairmont ghia later that year.

Now what my chinese friends and a couple from Taiwan have been telling me about Chinese cars is that they are all cheap garbage. From designs that were conceived by stealing a key to the patent office and then running to the photo copier room, to the use of cheaper and lighter gauge materials in structural areas (check that little gem out); I don't need to own one to know just how bad they are going to be - especially when the people I know who have lived there and are in the know tell me how rubbish they are. Remember how much of a stink great walls of fire put up about only scoring two stars? That's because in China that's actually a good rating for a local car, and an obscure little market like Australia demanding better was going to force them to change it.
Don't take my word for it though, ask some of your friends or colleagues from chinese descent what they think, I'm sure you'll be amazed by their answers.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

The tradies at work aren't too keen on them, a few older blokes have them, and don't seem to have any complaints. That being said, they also have no compliments. They're just a work truck.
I hate the ads though. The bloke touting his "great deal" looks like he copped a wallop to the eye.

Looks like he's copped a wallop to another part of his anatomy !!!!!

[rickyros]

pretty good mate, we have one for work and seems to be pretty good for 20gs. what else do you expect??? has a 5yr warranty 100,000kms power everything, a/c and music. Comfortable drive and cheapish to run. for a work shitter why not

[Scott]

Originally Posted by rickyros

for a work shitter why not

And that is the essence of them. If you're going to look at buying a 5-10yo Hilux/Navara/Rodeo with low kms and in tidy condition, the V240 may just be close enough to your budget to consider... and be warranted, better equipped and have a similar safety rating to boot.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by ltd

Well, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences.
* When the F250 came over here, a couple of my American friends told me how good they were and how bullet proof the 7.3 powerstroke was. I believed them.
* When Hyundai came over here we all laughed about how crap they were and how each should come with a lifetime subscription to prozac; until a mate from school of Korean background told me how they were new at cars and built industrial machinery. Then the newer bubble car model came out and they were a raging success.
* I also recall my response to a colleague in 1998 when the AU was first out and he quipped "What an ugly piece of junk". I quickly told him of the AU's underlying strengths in the drivetrain, its interior comfort etc etc. He ended up buying a fairmont ghia later that year.

Now what my chinese friends and a couple from Taiwan have been telling me about Chinese cars is that they are all cheap garbage. From designs that were conceived by stealing a key to the patent office and then running to the photo copier room, to the use of cheaper and lighter gauge materials in structural areas (check that little gem out); I don't need to own one to know just how bad they are going to be - especially when the people I know who have lived there and are in the know tell me how rubbish they are. Remember how much of a stink great walls of fire put up about only scoring two stars? That's because in China that's actually a good rating for a local car, and an obscure little market like Australia demanding better was going to force them to change it.
Don't take my word for it though, ask some of your friends or colleagues from chinese descent what they think, I'm sure you'll be amazed by their answers.

Funny that you bring up the AU fairmount Ghia, that was the last Ford I owned and gave me no end of issues. The trans was replaced twice, diff once, ABS computer twice and even the traction control unit died again which is a part of the ABS unit, the ECU was repalced, the climate control stuff 3 times, power window switches kept falling out on their own and forget about them working for long if you don't put some contact cleaner in every so often.

Two winder motors and this was a car that didn't get driven hard and didn't normally tow anything either. It was comfy to sit in though yes lol. Oh and it had other issues too but not worth getting into but it had less than 100thou on the clock. Not a great vehicle for something costing between $50-$60k depending on options.

As to the Chinese cars, are we talking about chinese built vehicles in general or Great Wall vehicles? In China the number 1 independant seller of SUV's and Pick up is Great Wall. I too know people living in China and they say they never see people breaking down or having issues with the Great Wall utes etc.

Thes evehicles are sold all over the world, not just here in Australia and have had positive reports from most everywhere. As to the ANCAP testing and those issues, theres 2 sides to every story. Look into it and the events after it a bit more, the first tested vehicle was found to have had faults.

GWM even changed suppliers of some of the parts and was very quick to address any issues as they even had some of their head techs present at the ANCAP testing. GWM also offered another vehicle free for testing and were refused.

Do a little more research and you will find GWM have themselve built a state of the art crash test set up longer than ours and built to use the same european standards as we have adopted for ANCAP. Test results showed the vehicle may have recived upto maybe another star.

Now this is by no means what we'd call a great safety rating still but it's equal to other commerical vehicles of it's kind and even better than some and as already stated better than alot of the vehicles on todays roads. heck even the AU only got 2 stars. And great wall being upset about ANCAP ratings lol, check out how upset Toyota when their new car being sold with safety as a selling point got the same rating as the X240 CUV.

ANCAP testing is a rating, a guide only and is of limited value because they don't test a fair number of each vehicle to get a acceptable average. It's a safety guide and should be used as such, not relied upon as law or set in stone fact as alot of cars under-go advances and changes to improve some of the short fallings after testing.

Do a little more research and you may find that the V240 looks like other vehicles you already know or may have heard of such as the VW magellan front end and a RA Rodeo chassis/body/inside. Then check the guage of the metals used in the RA for a example and then the V240, heck even just feel the fendors and see the difference in panels. You might be surprised.

See this is the problem with alot of this information getting thrown about, it's fear based and not completely factual and what is is often from a different vehicle but used to make these sound bad. Even with the crash rating as we have many other vehicles with the same rating and worse but because they are from accepted known brands here they don't get much of a mention.

I dislike fear mongering, sure these cars aren't perfect and they have their issues or faults and drawbacks. I own one so am aware of several points but they are no different than most cars and they all have their good and bad and not a car made yet doesn't have issues or a recall.

Heck look at websites like TotallRecall if you want info on how great all the brand name vehicles we think are great quality, Toyota is king of recalls and look at how many over just the last 2 years they have had to recall and lets not forget Ford in the top 10 for largest recalls ever with over 12,ooo,ooo in 2008 alone

Then look at some of the worlds harshest off-road rallies like the Dakar and Huanta which the GWM V240 and X240 have been in. in 2008 I believe the V240 (aka Wingle) actually was champion and won and even this year in the 2010 dakar the X240 got a very respectable 33rd.

I think for the average punter like myself these vehicles should be ok one would hope if they can survive that kind of stuff let alone get a placing. Don't believe what I say or what anyone else says for that matter. Do your own research and base it on facts, not fear mongering.

That said, folks don't buy one because of what I say or anyone else either. Do your own research and studies and make your own choices on information you find yourself. They aren't for everyone, they aren't perfect and I don't think China will dominate our vehicle markets.

[superpursuit83]

I have test driven 4wd twin cab and thought it was a Fair and well appointed vehicle for the price.
Actually thinking of getting one and making my ute a weekend toy.
Cheap to buy, and resale does not worry me. I will drive it until I make it a workshop hack. Then probably get another.

[rickyros]

bang for buck boys thats what it comes down too, drive around on the Gold Coast and thats what you see everywhere. V240 isn't half bad!!

[Mitcon]

Are we allowed to share pics in this thread/forum ?

If so here's some of my Chinese takeaway lol

[Mitcon]

It's like Chinese food, half hour after driving it I wanna go out and drive it again j/k

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Mitcon

It's like Chinese food, half hour after driving it I wanna go out and drive it again j/k

Nice Maxx Traxx.

[BOSHOG]

the bullbar definantly helps it look good

[superpursuit83]

Therew ya go. A quick look at the pics above and you would think its another jap car (triton etc)
I reckon they are ok for the money. 5yr warranty. I definately can not dismiss them as an option.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by superpursuit83

I have test driven 4wd twin cab and thought it was a Fair and well appointed vehicle for the price.
Actually thinking of getting one and making my ute a weekend toy.
Cheap to buy, and resale does not worry me. I will drive it until I make it a workshop hack. Then probably get another.

Resale prolly wont be that bad, people always bring this up but look at it this way.

I'll use my 00 AU Ghia as a reference point and a similar aged el cheapo 4x4 ute thats not loved or popular like a Ssangyong to keep things even and fair.

Right AU Fairmount Ghia around $50k purchase price at 4 years of age you could buy them for around $14-$16k

Ssangyong Musso, new about $26k and retail at 4 years of age you could buy them at $12-$14k.

Resale values differ for all vehicle though but end of the day yes a more expensive vehicle has a higher resale because it cost more in the first place. But trade in values are different again and often are poorer on unpopular vehicles.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Nice Maxx Traxx.

I've tried many things over the years and they are as good as it gets, sadly though they are too costly. Cheap insurance yes but they should really only be about $150 IMHO. I've not had to use these yet myself though I have lent them to others once.

The ones I used in times past in other 4by's I've owned were lent to me by other 4bys kind enough to offer help. But lengths of shade cloth work ok if used well as well and don;t cost bugger all, nothing like the max Trax but better than most other types you do pay good money for.

[Mitcon]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

the bullbar definantly helps it look good

For sure, the front end is horrid in styling IMO. They ahve already got a newer facelift for the front end in the A5 model but no idea if we will see it here in Australia or when.

And before folks say or ask lol, no I don't work for or have anything to do with Great Wall other than owning one of them. I wanted a new touring vehicle and was no way I could afford to drop $100k of coin to do it.

[SB076]

Isnt the no. 1 seller of motor vehicles in China VW? I was talking to someone recently from China and they said most Chinese prefer other brands (compared to their own home grown brands - something to do with status and a lack of trust of parts manufactured locally) However I think the Hover is the no. 1 selling SUV in China

I havent driven one (they seem underpowered looking at the stats - feel free to enlighten me on that one though) The ANCAP test result is what it is and no doubt GWM are dissappointed by the result.

Resale, well we will find out in the future. I would suggest they wouldnt hold up that well, however given the initial purchase price this will not concern some.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by SB076

Isnt the no. 1 seller of motor vehicles in China VW?

Yes, and anyone who has been to China will tell you. VW's are all over the place, and there just as many Jap cars on the roads there, either imported or made there.

VW, Toyota, Buick/SAIC and from memory locally made Daihatsu's were most prominent on the roads there. Fords were almost non-existent.

[JC]

Originally Posted by GTP006

And that is the essence of them. If you're going to look at buying a 5-10yo Hilux/Navara/Rodeo with low kms and in tidy condition, the V240 may just be close enough to your budget to consider... and be warranted, better equipped and have a similar safety rating to boot.

Spot on. 2 star safety rating of 2010 is the same as early 90s 4WDs like Triton, Hilux etc. Go back another 5 or 10 years, and older luxes would get a zero rating! So a 20K great wall is better than a 15/20 year old Japanese competitor, and it is the price that makes them a competitor.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SB076

Isnt the no. 1 seller of motor vehicles in China VW? I was talking to someone recently from China and they said most Chinese prefer other brands (compared to their own home grown brands - something to do with status and a lack of trust of parts manufactured locally) However I think the Hover is the no. 1 selling SUV in China

The chinese love the Japanese brand cars (even if they hate the country), but will buy chinese because they cant afford something better. VW are all the cabs over there but VW have been building over there and have built a good reputation.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by JimNiki

We understand that ..but an Australian designed and made car should be more reliable due to our commitment to R&D and other high manufacturing standards.

Hence the higher price... you get what you pay for?...
So all of a sudden the cheaper chinese labour cost means nothing if you're buying a cheaper polished ****.

Recent article from GoAuto:

Chinese close quality gap: Export quality almost within reach of Chinese car factories, survey shows

22 June 2010

By JOHN MELLOR

CHINESE car quality has improved dramatically in the past 10 years, according to data released to GoAuto by the world’s leading vehicle quality authority, J.D. Power and Associates.

Annual surveys of Chinese car owners show that Chinese car factories are fast catching on to the quality levels required to start exporting cars to western car markets in earnest.

The data shows two levels of quality – the cars made by domestic Chinese car-makers such as Chery, BYD and Great Wall and cars made in China by Japanese, European, Korean and US car companies in partnership with Chinese car-makers.

In terms of faults per 100 cars, Chinese domestic car-makers still lag well behind the quality of cars made by the foreign car makers – a clear indicator that the overseas car makers are bringing with them valuable vehicle production knowledge and transfer of technology.

But the gap between the domestic brands and the foreign brands is narrowing. Nor are the domestics chasing a stationary target with the data showing that the foreign car-makers are also squeezing increased quality out of their car factories as well.

In 2000, the Chinese domestic brands were throwing up 834 quality faults per 100 cars – a horrendous figure that would scare off the bravest of candidates seeking to export Chinese cars into Western car markets.

The foreign brands, at 438 faults per 100 cars, had half as many faults but still enough impediments to drive off any serious thoughts of sending these Chinese-made cars to the west.

At that time the gap between the domestic and foreign brands was a massive 396 faults per 100 cars which suggested that it would be a long time before the Chinese domestic brands would be any serious threat in Western markets.

But, in just two years, the Chinese domestic brands had more than halved their faults to 399 per 100 cars and had caught up to where the foreign brands had been just two years before. The foreign brands, meanwhile had improved to 246 faults per 100 cars.

So, in those two years to 2002, the gap between the Chinese domestics and the foreign brands had been closed from 396 faults per 100 cars to 153 faults per 100 cars.

From then on it became harder to make gains in the intervening years but, in the latest 2009 survey, the domestic Chinese car-makers were at 258 faults per 100 cars and the foreign brand car makers were at 142 faults for 100 cars. The gap between the two was 116 faults per 100 cars.

By comparing this data with J.D. Power surveys of US car buyers who bought US brands made in American car factories, the faults of the Chinese domestic brands in 2009 were still way off the scale. But the faults reported in the foreign brands made in China are roughly the equivalent to the faults reported by American car buyers in their domestic cars in 2002. This suggests that in 2009 the foreign brands made in China are about eight years behind the quality standards of the US car-makers in America.

But improvements since then show the gap by 2009 between the foreign cars made in China and US cars made in the US was just 30 faults per 100 cars or less than one fault per car difference.

This suggests that on quality at least, cars of foreign brands in China could just about be ready to hold their own in the US market, which would leave them not far behind for markets such as Australia.

In another key indicator that the Chinese car-makers are on a roll on car quality, J.D. Power reported that the number of Chinese car owners “experiencing problems with their vehicle since owning it” has dropped from almost 60 per cent in 2004 to 28 per cent in 2009

Source: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25774A0012DACF

So it seems the gap is closing rapidly, and as a result, foreign car manufacturers are pushing themselves to make higher quality cars, as has been suggested in an earlier post in regards to pushing locally made OZ cars for better quality.

[Gas N Go]

Have a look at Fiat in Italy, absolute pice of crap yet they still buy it. Why?c oz there patriotic. Australia builds a far better car in ford and holden and yet we still buy imported ****. People complain about bunnings etc full of chinese crap yet are the first ones to buy it. It doesnt stop with cars, this country would be so much better off if we supported our own products yet its easier to brush off the subject and say too bad its someone elses problem. Ozzi pride doesnt stop with sinking **** at the cricket and going home and telling everyone what a great proud ozzi u are.