VFacts April 2018,

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No it doesn't

I don't understand how being only just behind a top seller like Hilux can be a "dark cloud"....

With fleet hack 2x4’s the only reason Hilux outsells Ranger

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Umm..since when has a medium sized fwd/awd 4cyl/6cyl hatchback been a mainstream icon for Holden?
Holdens icon was a large rwd sedan and in later stages, V8 configuration to the tune of 60% of sales.
Tell me how the ZB is trying to cover that base in anything other than name.

Do you honestly believe Holden expected any of its loyal V8 customers to consider this as an alternative, if you do, and i dont believe that for a second, its just the angle you're taking to suit the narrative, you'd be extremely naive.
If a mid sized car was the way forward Ford wouldn't have bothered with Mustang and HSV wouldn't be importing Camaro's.

There is no doubt GM are playing catchup in the segment but if and when Camaro is built in RHD configuration Commodore will be recognised for what it is, a competitor to Mondeo and as it stands now, more than doubling its figures.

The rest is all childish banter to deflect from the only true fact and that is the fact that both former No1's are mid pack bit players in a fragmented market and are dominated by Toyota to the tune of 2 to 1.

The still say it's a large car, it sells in the large car segment. We all know it isn't but trying telling Holden that. It's their words.

They think just calling it a Commodore would bring in the sales. Everyone knew it wouldn't except them. They live in a fantasy land where anything with a Holden badge is rolled gold cause satraya mate. Despite everything they have launched recently being a failure.

That's why everyone said it shouldn't be called a Commodore because it isn't one, but they thought they could pull the wool over everyones eyes and people would be too stupid to know it wasn't a real Commodore.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The still say it's a large car, it sells in the large car segment. We all know it isn't but trying telling Holden that. It's their words.

They think just calling it a Commodore would bring in the sales. Everyone knew it wouldn't except them. They live in a fantasy land where anything with a Holden badge is rolled gold cause satraya mate. Despite everything they have launched recently being a failure.

That's why everyone said it shouldn't be called a Commodore because it isn't one, but they thought they could pull the wool over everyones eyes and people would be too stupid to know it wasn't a real Commodore.

But what you're saying is a contradiction.
You said its a fact that a niche sportscar is outselling a Holden icon and then go on to say everyone knows its not really that Holden icon that it was previously.
So politics aside, the Mustang is simply outselling what we all know is a new vehicle that in reality has virtually nothing in common with its predecessor other than drawing on the success of an established badge.
Big deal.

Jpd says Ranger is doing well against the established Hilux because its only slightly behind but the truth is although Ranger was a new name, in the beginning it was just a rebadged Courier which had been around for decades.
It only kept the Courier name locally until 06 and had been called Ranger elsewhere since 98.
Commodore is a new car with an old badge and only just selling below the Mustang.
Ranger, an established vehicle with a new name, and Commodore a new car with an established name both selling slightly below the opposition.

Fact-Mustang>Commodore badge

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It only kept the Courier name locally until 06 and had been called Ranger elsewhere since 98.
Commodore is a new car with an old badge and only just selling below the Mustang.
Ranger, an established vehicle with a new name, and Commodore a new car with an established name both selling slightly below the opposition.

Rubbish, the T6 platform (Ranger post 2011) has nothing to do with any other vehicles that preceded it, and it is not a Courier with a new name.

T6 is a sales success and that platform will continue to grow new derivatives and power trains ( something that the failing Peugeot large car sold by Holden won’t have when it is discontinued in the next 5 years ). T6 will be developed further by Australian engineers and their colleagues overseas.

You are clutching at straws. Ford have some products that people really want to buy. Your team at Holden don’t - there isn’t anything from any of their source Factories that is likely to change that either.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

T6 is a sales success

Actually, it took about 3 years to establish itself as a serious contender, and before that it was rubbished on here as being a failure, just like Everest, because it wasn't an overnight success, and sales were low.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

Actually, it took about 3 years to establish itself as a serious contender, and before that it was rubbished on here as being a failure, just like Everest, because it wasn't an overnight success, and sales were low.

Sounds oddly familiar to a zb commodore thread.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Rubbish, the T6 platform (Ranger post 2011) has nothing to do with any other vehicles that preceded it, and it is not a Courier with a new name.

I never said the current model had anything to do with a courier, i said the Ranger name is not recently established and in its first instance was just a name change from Courier.
It was in response to Jpd's post which suggests the Ranger had to make up ground against the Hilux when infact the pre T6 platform Courier/Ranger had been competeing against Hilux for decades.

From Wiki..

International (1998–present)

For markets outside of North America, Ford badge engineered the Japanese-built Mazda B-Series as the Courier starting in 1971, renaming it the Ranger in 1998 (with the exception of Australasia where the Courier nameplate was retained until 2006;

[russellw]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well, this is 2018 and the battleground has shifted, its now Ranger V's Hilux and guess what, Hilux is on top.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Of course, and if you look close enough, every dark cloud has a silver lining too..

Little ray of sunshine aren't we. The reality is that even the overall gap between the Hilux and Ranger including both 4x2 and 4x4 models is not very big and the gap between the respective 4x4 models is tiny at just 218 units, YTD. Indeed, until last month, the Ranger held the 4x4 lead.

Cheers
Russ

[russellw]

The graphical stats for April are now uploaded to the Tech portal.

Additionally, as well as an analysis of the 2017 US market (and the impact of the Ford decision to cease making passenger cars in the USA), there is also an analysis of the 2017 European market.

Cheers
Russ

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The eight generation should have been influenced by this concept with styling cues added from the XR, XT, XW and XY models.

image

Now bring that and the Lincoln Aviator here, and I'm Ford for life!

Originally Posted by jpd80

They spend resources making Mondeo available here
Would another new product work better in its place?

Focus Active.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by russellw

Little ray of sunshine aren't we.
Cheers
Russ

Well i try to be Russ.

With all due respects though, my post was in reply to people who have spent the majority of their time on here lately dedicated to sinking the boots into a struggling Holden.
Now, whilst the old 'my car is better than your car' thing is what rivalries are built on and has been the backbone of our motoring identity, to take gratification from someone elses misery is totally unAustralian.

See, what people are overlooking is that when a bread and butter product like the Commodore tanks to the extant that weve seen it isnt just a kick in the guts to the Manufacturer but a kick in the guts to the men and women who sit behind the desks in Holden Dealerships right across the nation who until recently have put food on their tables on the back of the strength of Holdens no1 product the Commodore.

Now, im not sure about you, but i'd say the majority of people who found themselves in a situation where their employers mainstay was decimated and people sat around gloating at their demise, and in return a downturn in their sales generated pay packets, would struggle to considered those people beacons of light either.

The Ranger is going great and thats good for those associated with Ford, but sinking the boot into those at Holden and by association its employee's doesn't suggest they are model citizens either.

But thats just me..

[EgoFG]

Gotta expect some Ford bias on this forum ... look at the URL

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Gotta expect some Ford bias on this forum ... look at the URL

No doubt but i think the fact that the Holden bashing threads have hung around on the front page and continually bumped by the same 2 or 3 culprits says its more than just a Ford biased thing, they are obsessed by the demise and are putting their obvious hatred on show with little regard for the human element.

To bring it a little closer to home, my Son is a manager with KFC, he's been looking to break away from fast food retail and is considering car sales.
Earlier this week he messaged me about our local Holden Dealer advertising for experienced and cadet sales people and wanted my thoughts on it.
Now this Dealer, Peter Page Holden has been an icon of the industry and easily one of the biggest volume sellers for the brand, getting a sniff at a sales job there in the past was almost impossible because those who held the positions were extremely content.
Unfortunately, despite what at one time would have been a golden opportunity, i had to advise my Son against it because it is a cut throat industry and when your product is unwanted it would be almost impossible to make a go of.
I suggested he look to Toyota or one of the Korean's.

Holden's situation goes way beyond Red V's Blue and whilst it may well be self inflicted, for those at the coal face its anything but a laughing matter.

[Adamz Ghia]

I’ve said it for a long time, the whole Ford v Holden hatred died in year 10 for me. After that it was clear even back then it was no longer Ford v Holden, it was Ford, Holden and to a lesser extent Toyota versus the world.

[lra]

The Ford v Holden rivalry is dead. When are one eyed followers of either going to realise it, and get over it ?.
It has been since Ford announced that it was sending Australian production into retirement.
The loss of Australian jobs in Ford, Holden, Toyota and associated parts manufacturing is not a “I win, nah nah nah” exercise in gloating.
I don’t care whether Ranger and Mustang are a self proclaimed sales success, or whether the Opel Commodore is a miserable market place failure, or whether the Supercars Mustang is going to beat whatever the Holden/GM teams are going to race. It all means stuff all to the wider Australian expertise and economy.
In the 1970s we laughed at Toyota and Datsun.
In the 1990s we laughed at Kia and Hyundai.
Now we are laughing at stuff from China and India.
In the not too far future, they all will be laughing at us. Still raving on about how my 20 year old FG Falcon is better than your 20 year old VE Holden.

[prydey]

on a slightly different note, my folks recently bought a new Hyundai Tucson. They were just closing down their business and retiring and wanted a new car as a bit of a 'retirement present' to themselves.

as the 'car person' in the family they asked for my help, however I made it clear that I wouldn't steer them in any direction (otherwise they would now have an escape instead) but I would just help to compare the different cars they had on their shortlist.

it was quite an experience for me to see the difference between the things that car people and non car people focus on. it came down to a decision between a 2016 Xtrail and a new Tucson (2017). Xtrail killed it on features, but missed out on reverse beepers (had camera only), and had a foot operated park brake. that doomed it. Tucson had camera + beepers, and was new with long warranty, and one of the main things that got them over the line was the salesperson. Even I was impressed. We got some young girl who sold the car, by selling the product. sounds strange, but some salespeople are more marketing than product knowledge. Not this girl. I tested her on a few things, asking some obscure questions and her specific product knowledge was the best I've ever come across. Equally impressive was, if she didn't know the answer, she just said she didn't know but would find out. And she did.

Anyway, sometimes we focus on technical specs, drivelines, features, how they handle, performance.... and sometimes the big picture gets lost. Car people are a minority, and sometimes sales are very much influenced by things that have nothing to do with the actual product, or very minor things with the actual product. Don't get me wrong, the Hyundai Tucson was a very nice place to be on the inside, but I wouldn't rate it better than an Escape, or a Mazda cx5 or a couple of others, but sometimes it just comes down to little things that make everyday ownership easy.

The market is so segmented these days that the sales charts are almost worthless. They get analysed to death on these forums, but they mean nothing in the big scheme of things.