FG2 FPV's

[TS50]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Any / All of the above plus tyre pressure's, state of tune, type of fuel, how clean your air cleaner is and the different terrain in which you live BUT Most importantly the mix of urban and extra urban running and what constitutes urban and extra urban to you and your mate may be two completly different things. My experience OTOH is the same terrain, driver, tyre pressures, type of driving and so on.

Well we live 5 mins from each other, both stock
i was stating the difference in fuel economy more on when we had both done the same open road trips together
so all of that is identical
we both run the same tyre pressures
Just running at 110km/h on the road, one behind the other

Originally Posted by prydey

could simply be the gearbox. manuals are no longer more economical. the zf box would make a fair difference.

That is my thinking too

[HaLLiS]

sooooooooooooooo i heard something about the new gt in the upcoming v8s?

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Putting all your eggs in the V8 basket particularly seems like a risk to me in this day and age.

Maybe some people just need to stop looking at it as "just a V8" and look at what it represents in terms of the latest and most upto date technology and performance that FPV offer.
Judging by its sales id same most consumers can, certainly HSV customers dont see too much of an issue with "just a V8"...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Maybe some people just need to stop looking at it as "just a V8" and look at what it represents in terms of technology and performance.
Judging by its sales id same most consumers can, certainly HSV customers dont see too much of an issue with "just a V8"...

What does it represent?

Explain HSV still selling well with their old donk....maybe your over emphasizing how much people care about valve and cam count?

(many other factors there but you get the point)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Might want to check your figures, BF F6 outsold BF GT (2006)
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...ategory&cid=32

The 2:1 sales were only in the later era circa 2008.

As far as the "customers" who went from V8 (GT-P) to T6 (F6) because of performance, well I was one of them and I know several others personally.

It is interesting to note that it appears the "whinging wannabes" you speak of appear not to be confined to pubs that sell beer........

so in 7 years, the f6 outsold the gt for 1? you also admit yourself the gt generally outsells the f6 but becuase a few people you know swapped from gt to f6 then that means something else?? i'm confused. you seem to just like trying to pick arguments.

you then later state

Originally Posted by flappist

I suspect the majority of FPV customers choose a car in the following priority.
1) Badge and bodykit
2) Falcon
3) Performance

which is pretty much what i was saying.

i am not a customer, and you are welcome to look back at all my contributions to this forum, but not once have i ever bagged the performance of the ford v8's or whinged that they aren't fast enough in a straight line or aren't a performance car.

back on topic.

[SS_01]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What if FPV released FG2 and it came out with bigger brakes, wider tyres and a 5% reduction in weight? Would that be preferable over an extra 10kw?

I think this is what we want, but what i think the car needs this time around, is the wider tyres, maybe a suspension option if you want something a little harder, and a change to the bodykit. Also, the one thing i would like them to focus on if they dont change the bodykit, is differentiating it inside from a regular falcon. HSV have done it very well in there latest E-series 3 creation if you ask me, cause you feel like your in something more special.

[geckoGT]

I think it is time to get back on topic, that is discussion about FGII FPV, lets not have so much of the F6 v GT of old discussion.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

so in 7 years, the f6 outsold the gt for 1? you also admit yourself the gt generally outsells the f6 but becuase a few people you know swapped from gt to f6 then that means something else?? i'm confused. you seem to just like trying to pick arguments.

you then later state


which is pretty much what i was saying.

i am not a customer, and you are welcome to look back at all my contributions to this forum, but not once have i ever bagged the performance of the ford v8's or whinged that they aren't fast enough in a straight line or aren't a performance car.

back on topic.

I was simply correcting your quite inaccurate statement using data available from our tech area. F6 has really only been available from late 2005 to now. The early 2004-2005 units were stopped temporarily due to engineering issues.
In 2006 F6 was the largest selling model with a gradual decline after that but it was not until 2008-2009 that the GT outsold it 2:1. The stats are also a bit scewed in that the Cobra and GT40 are technically GTs.

This is not stating anything other than historically what happened.

Now as far as the FG2 and what sells. The MOST successful FPV ever was the GT-40 as it sold out almost before it was first delivered. The second most successful was the Cobra for the same reason. Both of these are badge/bodykit permutations of the basic GT.

Now some of the less successful; Force, 5.4 GS, F6 R-Spec, Pursuit, F6X, 5.4 GT-E, F6-E to name a few.

Higer performance, better handling, AWD, cheaper and luxury interior have all shown themselves to be minor drawcards. The market is and almost always has been "GT with stripes".
The GT itself has got slightly more "blingy" with every update which has seemd to work.
Remember the BA GT had basic aircon, no colour ICC, cloth seats, no stripes and PBR brakes.

Therefore in the current economic climate I suspect that the lead FG2 model will be a slightly more blingy "GT with stripes" and will do nicely.

[SteveJH]

They might not be the most popular options, but if you want better magazine reviews you can always give them a car with those options.

Ie, better suspension, bigger brakes, wider wheels etc.

[dimka100]

Well actually the S/C V8 GT is still heavier than the F6 at the front, sure there was some weight saved when FPV has moved on from the 5.4 engine however it’s not as much as people have been expecting and it’s still a bit heavier than the I6T (probably dues to the super charger plus a few other FPV items) …

Technologically the V8 does not actually offer than much over the I6T, a supercharger vs turbocharger is just a different way of force feeding an engine, while for everything else the main advancement that I can see is the all alloy construction vs the I6. Funny enough FPV did not implement the new ECU and hence had to sacrifice the exhaust variable timing part …

As for the power, both Ford and FPV have always downplayed the power of the I6T so that I never is seen as more than their V8 offerings … and like I said it’s simply a case of a company that’s run by V8 enthusiasts and not turbo charged hipo 6s or 4s revheads … hence the direction.

As for the V8 being the best way for FPV is exactly what I said if you read carefully, both in N/A and S/C forms … fast 4s and 6s should be left out for Ford. This will create the perfect market differentiation and segmentation for both brands.

Originally Posted by AMGC63

The current S/C 5.0 V8 engine is roughly the same weight at the F6 engine, produces more power and torque and has newer better technology and can adopt future technology that the I6T cant...
So tell me why you think that the new S/C 5.0 V8 isnt the best way forward for FPV?? Its the most sophisticated high tech high performance engine in the current range, and is comfortably upgradable well into the future unlike any other engine we have.

[Rodge]

There's 27 Kg's between them. I'd like to see weight reduction in the FPV FG2 but that costs time, money, R&D, crash testing and expensive materials so we all know the chances of that.

[dimka100]

It’s interesting that you say that, I have noticed the exact same thing, the younger generation likes the I6T however the same cannot be said about Ford’s/FPV’s V8s … even the Xr6turbo forum has mostly young members with a very different opinion to what a performance is and what it should be …

I have also noticed that I never see any young people driving newish FPV (V8s) … I mostly see the older generation do that, it’s definitely not an issue of affordability as I see lots of young people driving tons of other expensive performance/sports cars …

My personal opinion is that FPV needs to clearly define and work out their targeted audience and position their cars accordingly, in my opinion the F6 vs the GT target a very different audience (even if both cars seem similar in nature), and as it stands today the audience that would be interested in the F6 has mostly lost interest due to the lack of development in that model over the last few years …

Originally Posted by Polyal

Your assuming younger people care about the GT. The XR6T/F6 has had quite an influence on "younger" people, to discount this is incorrect (IMO).

The GT is currently being brought by people who either want a stonking V8, or simply enjoy the attachment they have with the name and their youth.

[AMGC63]

That's because of the purchase price of the cars!!!

Originally Posted by dimka100

It’s interesting that you say that, I have noticed the exact same thing, the younger generation likes the I6T however the same cannot be said about Ford’s/FPV’s V8s … even the Xr6turbo forum has mostly young members with a very different opinion to what a performance is and what it should be …

I have also noticed that I never see any young people driving newish FPV (V8s) … I mostly see the older generation do that, it’s definitely not an issue of affordability as I see lots of young people driving tons of other expensive performance/sports cars …

My personal opinion is that FPV needs to clearly define and work out their targeted audience and position their cars accordingly, in my opinion the F6 vs the GT target a very different audience (even if both cars seem similar in nature), and as it stands today the audience that would be interested in the F6 has mostly lost interest due to the lack of development in that model over the last few years …

[GT 160]

Imo the first thing they need to do put the V8 back in the non FPV lineup. Apparently the Ford customer line get hundreds of ph calls a week asking the same thing.

Makes no sense.

[1TUFFUTE]

to me its rather simple. The current GT is allready percieved to have dynamic engine and performance. You would imagine NOW is the perfect time to improve looks and more importantly for large sedans....HANDLING and even some quality improvments. Looking at the big picture it surely must come down to rather simple goals like this. "We have the performance...lets get the rest(handling)"

[FPT]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

That's because of the purchase price of the cars!!!

And are mostly second hand, and are easier to mod than the previous V8. Also that IS primarily a turbo forum.


I can't wait till the Mk2 FPVs are released; I'll be looking forward to nitpicking and bagging the crap out of it for the lack of disco lights and no upgrade in power and no built in playstation and no wagon and no diesel and no 295 wide tyres and and no completely new bodykit and no rock hard suspension and no new design 22" rims and no standard dressing table (with a lifetime supply of hair spray and gel), and they still have the panda eyes, why??

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

That's because of the purchase price of the cars!!!

And the fact that a lot of Gen Y were influenced more by the jap turbos (imports) whilst growing up than the Aussie V8s from the seventies. They prefer the whoosh.

As for the next FPV...their still waiting for HSV to respond to/compete with the current model !.

[flappist]

Here is a point to ponder.

Every single V8 model made by FTE/FPV that did not have a GT badge has had mediocre sales regardless of performance capability or luxury options.

Every single V8 model made by FPV that has had a GT badge has been successful regardless of performance capability or luxury options.

[cartaa100]

im young and alot of my mates are into the high performance "imports"

personally i think its because of the second hand price of them and how quick they are, there all into these quick around track cars... but how often do they go onto the track, truth is not often.

i do beleive alot of the younger drivers prefer the turbo of the 8s

my next car will be one of fords I6T only because i will not be able to afford one of the sc8s

im sure alot more young drivers will be getting into some of the fpvs sc8 as there price drops

Cheers,
Tom

[dimka100]

Do people read the whole post or just pick some key words and straight onto typing? Read again … “I mostly see the older generation do that, it’s definitely not an issue of affordability as I see lots of young people driving tons of other expensive performance/sports cars".

Around my area and usually where I go (eastern suburbs or Sydney, as well the City, and some parts of the North) most younger/middle aged population (25 – 40 – as I’m not talking about uni students) drive new cars many of which are far more expensive than any FPVs … so like I said before it’s not the price that stops them …

Originally Posted by AMGC63

That's because of the purchase price of the cars!!!

[Chilliman]

I wonder what direction FPV will take if the post-2015 Falcon is a CD4-based car with either a 2.0Litre Ecoboost 4cyl and front-wheel-drive or a 3.5Litre Ecoboost V6 with all-wheel-drive?

I thought the modular based V8's (the 4.6Litre) were used in a few east-west configurations in early 1990's Lincolns? I wonder if the new 5.0Litre Coyote could be mated in this fashion to an AWD CD4 setup?

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I wonder what direction FPV will take if the post-2015 Falcon is a CD4-based car with either a 2.0Litre Ecoboost 4cyl and front-wheel-drive or a 3.5Litre Ecoboost V6 with all-wheel-drive?

I thought the modular based V8's (the 4.6Litre) were used in a few east-west configurations in early 1990's Lincolns? I wonder if the new 5.0Litre Coyote could be mated in this fashion to an AWD CD4 setup?

Would a FWD east-west gearbox be able to handle the torque though?

[XRDeeze]

Ok the F6 may not be a Coupe - bad joke- but I know a guy who works for Ford Engineering and all he said was " youll be surprised ...." (about the next F6 coming soon

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by fitzwa

Imo the first thing they need to do put the V8 back in the non FPV lineup. Apparently the Ford customer line get hundreds of ph calls a week asking the same thing.

Makes no sense.

That's funny, because XR8 sales were terrible. Where were all these people when it was for sale?

[XRDeeze]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That's funny, because XR8 sales were terrible. Where were all these people when it was for sale?

and because of that, i dont think theyll be a another XR8 model comin out in the last line of falcons released....well as far as reading other car reviews on the net is concernd.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Would a FWD east-west gearbox be able to handle the torque though?

Modified Taurus SHO's seem to be coping just fine

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Ford_XR603

The new FG2 F6 will be a coupe.

Now do i put that in my sig or do i not..........

[gtfpv]

after reading all of this thread . i'm tending to go with AMGC63 , AND flappist.
i see why fpv would market the GT over F6 , IN fg2 guise . time will tell . 40mill investment says a lot about getting a return , badge bodykit , stripes , and now leading performance , leaves the equivelant for dead , and a worthy marketing venture . the XR6T is a bloody beaut falcon XR8 and GS , i dont know; but i see a war there between the two , and possibly the F6 also .
talking FPV though , think the V8 seems to have taken over in performance . the F6 Is left in nowhere mans land against a GS. ( ONE OF THEM HAS TO GO ) . i'm kind've starting to think . the FPV line up should be GT,GT-H, AND RS FOCUS. . and perhaps FORDS lineup . xt,xr6na/or/lpg, g6e,xr6t g6et xr8.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What if FPV released FG2 and it came out with bigger brakes, wider tyres and a 5% reduction in weight? Would that be preferable over an extra 10kw?

I don't see why the GT/P/E need more power. Its got tons of it now and the computer is limiting the power down low. Getting the power to the ground better will yield more. The drive line is done, now work on the rest of the vehicle.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I don't see why the GT/P/E need more power. Its got tons of it now and the computer is limiting the power down low. Getting the power to the ground better will yield more. The drive line is done, now work on the rest of the vehicle.

I think you'll find FPV agree with you, im told the engine wont receive anymore power upgrades for the life of FG2.