Ford is Looking Back - XR8

[prydey]

beancounters count beans, not product sales. obviously you can't have one without the other, but you can sacrifice profit for sales volume. it depends which business case they can make work for them. at the moment they are in a fairly big transitional period. i'm sure all concerned would've been well aware of the sales slump. they don't get their info off AFF thats for sure.

[blk6t]

I honestly think Ford didn't do enough to give the XR8 that premium feel, Ford kept it a basic XR6 with a V8 and different bonnet, not enough and the same can be said for FPV with the GS!!!

Holden provided their V8 market with alternative models and it was successful, you could get the SS-V cheaper than getting the XR8 with leather, colour screen etc.

Holden included upgraded headlights, bigger seats with leather, larger rear wing, colour screen, gauges (crappy gauges) and bigger wheels over the SV6, customers felt like they were getting a premium sports model with a V8. Not just the SV6 with a V8.

You can surely understand if someone went to Holden, drove the SSV then went to see the XR8 which was just the XR6 inside and outside, their going to feel the SSV offered much more. Even more so when comparing the utes.

Not a Holden fan but as I said Ford could have done a lot more to the XR8 to make it feel like a premium model.

Us Ford fans don't see it, but to the people who dwindle between Holden and Ford not too fussed on brand, the VE appeared on face value to have a better V8 sedan.

[prydey]

why do people continue to compare things with holden, when they are in just as big a financial mess. hardly a good business case to base yours on!!

[Professor Farnsworth]

you're either a v8 person or you're not, and it's obvious a lot of people here aren't. It's also obvious there are some ridiculous outlandish statements being made about the customer base, and also some highly ignorant ones.

To he making the comment about the tickford 5litre being crap, have you even been in an AU XR8/Fairmont with an exhaust? Ridiculous statement.

To me it's simple, if it doesn't have a V8, it has no character. It's just transport, boring, transport. Turbo's are brutally quick, but dangerous as i'd fall asleep from boredom.

See it's easy to have a slanted opinion. I also agree there are a lot of whingers and (seemingly) Ford-hating people on this forum. Any wonder things are going pear-shaped?

I would whole-heartedly embrace the XR8 coming back. As far as the GS taking its nose, making it redundant, the new GS could easily have a unique FPV front put on, leaving the XR front for a new XR8. We all know it won't happen most likely, but we can keep dreaming.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Chopped

But they do fight each other and Holden is winning. They are selling more V8s in the budget end (SS) and at the top end (GTS).

Ford "may" be making a better profit on each V8 but they are slowly killing the V8 falcon (for a second time!) with dwindling build numbers.

How do you figure? Ford/fpv just invested 40M (in a locally developed engine) to bring us one of the best V8 engines offered in Australia & it is only 12 (18??) months old..

More sales does not mean they are winning!! And who says it is about winning anyway? As along as both companies are making a profit & this profit is one that managemtn is happy with, then both are winning!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Chopped

535 cars in 12 months (including the ute) is hardly worth bragging about though. Infact it is only a sign of how rare a new Falcon V8 is these days.

I wonder what the FG XR8 numbers would have been if it had the same engine but sat below the $50 000 mark ?

As I said though, I think it is a lost cause.

There is a very good post in here from jpd80 that will explain that for you!!

[Smoke Pursuit]

The XR8 ute is probably more missed then the sedan... XR8 ute use to be around 40 kay drive away.. GS ute is like 52 kay drive away.. 12 kay extra for a different motor and wheels? They should have structured the GS ute cheaper and had a Super Pursuit with the extra kit to keep the FPV kids happy.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

if you want a XR8, go buy a GS. its pretty simple.

+1

The GS is essentially an XR8 anyway. For Ford to bring an XR8 out, they're risking stealing sales from GS. Factor in the proposed small volume, the development cost for a lower power SC, or even more spent on an NA... or leave things as they are with GS which requires no more spending and operates off a better margin.

If GS had been positioned closer to the GT, maybe, but not as it is now.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

How do you figure? Ford/fpv just invested 40M (in a locally developed engine) to bring us one of the best V8 engines offered in Australia & it is only 12 (18??) months old..

More sales does not mean they are winning!! And who says it is about winning anyway? As along as both companies are making a profit & this profit is one that managemtn is happy with, then both are winning!!

Being one of the best is not in doubt .
It's just wasted with small numbers from a niche supplier.
Both companies may be happy (you sure?!) but what about their potential customers ?

Originally Posted by Joe5619

There is a very good post in here from jpd80 that will explain that for you!!

It is only looking at it from one side of the story.

Selling more means being able to buy in bulk, sourcing cheaper parts etc

More cars on the road, the more people see them, the more people want one (especially if they hear it!).

The GS is basically a secret, ask Joe Blow and they have never heard of it.
(GS doesn't mean anything to Gen Y or Gen X)

And while "$5.3 million more" is just a guesstimate, it is hardly a "win" in car making terms. Infact it's a joke in the big scheme of things, especially having to recoup the $40 million just to sell it here.

FPV is niche, it shouldn't be selling a pov pack version at all.

The XR8 badge and pricing has the potential to save the V8 falcon for a few more years. The GS is just taking profit till it dies. A concept lost on a few in these parts.

The whole "make less cars for more profit", that has been spoken of for the last few years, is hardly saving the Falcon is it ? (It's still sinking slowly down the charts)

I'm sure everyone will be happy to embrace the EcoBoost range of FWD and AWD once Ford kills the V8 from our shores.

Although if they let us have the Mustang, then .

[TMC]

Someone mentioned de ja vu here.

Yep back in 85 they dumped the Cleveland and said that nobody wanted a V8 any more. The XF sold well, but it was gutless when it came to performance with the old 250 in carby and EFI mode. Then the EA came along, the first cockroach looking Falcon, and the Ford people thought no one wanted a V8 any more, as fuel prices were too high. They even had Fairlanes with the SOHC 3.9L that just didn't go with the sort of performance a luxury car demanded.

Then in the EB Falcon, Ford finally listened and brought back the 5L Windsor, that Ford USA were selling by the truck loads. Then the GT came back and as time went on the XR8 and XR6 were born. Ford listened and they sold them well.

Then time went on and Ford lost their way and they dumped the station wagon Falcon and the V8 because fuel is too expensive.

Here we go again...

[Kieron]

I'd suggest Gen X and more so Y are generally into techie stuff and the XR6T would be more there cup of tea rather than the GS.

GS is more baby boomers/early Gen x'ers who can remember the name, and importantly are more able to afford a GS.

It's pretty much accepted now that the Falcon as it stands won't last much longer and will be replaced by the Taurus, therefore no V8 at all, but by then the baby boomers will have moved on and possibly looking at a softer cruiser to see out there years, if thats how Ford see it then of course they might as well milk high profit/low volume V8's.

The biggest market Ford may be missing out on is the CUB with the 'mining boom', primarily with a V8 ute, but maybe the XR6T ute is doing the job here?

[FTE]

The Ford V8 was dumped in Oz before 1985 and the XR8 was released with the introduction of the V8 in 91, a full year ahead of the Series 2 EB GT.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Chopped

The whole "make less cars for more profit", that has been spoken of for the last few years, is hardly saving the Falcon is it ? (It's still sinking slowly down the charts)

And selling V8's cheaply in big qty is hardly saving the Commodore!! (It is sinking slowly down the chart!!).. Maybe, just maybe, there is more to the story. I think it is fair to say Holden are in just as much trouble as Ford is.

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by Kieron

The biggest market Ford may be missing out on is the CUB with the 'mining boom', primarily with a V8 ute, but maybe the XR6T ute is doing the job here?

nah i'm good as i got one of the last XR8 ..

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by FTE

The Ford V8 was dumped in Oz before 1985 and the XR8 was released with the introduction of the V8 in 91, a full year ahead of the Series 2 EB GT.

On top of this, the Falcon from XD-EA had the sporty 'S' 6 potter which was a volume seller. The S essentially became the XR6 with the EB and continued being the volume seller. Really, the XR8 was always a small seller, especially as it was no better than the XR6 in it's early life.


comagutsa, I got one of the last XR8's too

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And selling V8's cheaply in big qty is hardly saving the Commodore!! (It is sinking slowly down the chart!!).. Maybe, just maybe, there is more to the story. I think it is fair to say Holden are in just as much trouble as Ford is.

That's a fair point !

Although the SS is a star for Holden and does wonders for the "sporty" image of the Commodore. People buy the SV6 because it looks like the SS.

Ford has done similar with the XR6T but they should have stuck with the XR8.

It's a bit of silly arguement anyway as both cars will be gone in a few years and we will have to accept the new style of performance.

Just adding my 2 cents (having a whine)....makes me feel good....

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by blk6t

I honestly think Ford didn't do enough to give the XR8 that premium feel, Ford kept it a basic XR6 with a V8 and different bonnet, not enough and the same can be said for FPV with the GS!!!

But they did. When the BA came out they marketed the XR8 as the 'premium' top of the range Falcon, as it was in AU. It was more expensive than the XR6T, with the 260kw jammed in everyone's faces as King of the Falcon.

What happened was the XR6T got cult status pretty much overnight. It was quicker than the GT, forget XR8... out handled both. I think by BAII they made XR6T and XR8 the same price, answering what consumers wanted in other words. The XR6T would have been a huge unknown for Ford Australia, I doubt most would have predicted that XR6T would have become the favourite performance Falcon with Aussie's V8 culture. It did, and V8 lovers bought an SS. When FG came out in '08, the XR6T obliterated everything... and pretty much dug the XR8 grave.

People who wanted the best performance Falcon bought the XR6T, those with a posing frame of mind (exhaust note and bonnet bulge) or Ford V8 appreciation went for XR8, which is fine by me. All it shows it what people demanded from the market... The 5.4l simply didn't cut the mustard and along with XR6T, killed off XR8 for mine. The SS provides the best of both worlds in a way, a great V8 engine that was quicker and handled better than XR8.

[FPV GTHO]

XR8 only dropped to XR6T price for BF2 to coincide with VE launch and SS/SS-V taking over from SV8/SS. It was a $50K car retail until then.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

XR8 only dropped to XR6T price for BF2 to coincide with VE launch and SS/SS-V taking over from SV8/SS. It was a $50K car retail until then.

It was earlier than that.

BA II or BF.

If Ford were to fit the 315 engine into an XR8, they should give the 335 engine to GS and put the intercooled version they haven't used yet into GT. Badge it 351 just for the sake of it.

[DFB FGXR6]

[QUOTEThe GS is basically a secret, ask Joe Blow and they have never heard of it.
(GS doesn't mean anything to Gen Y or Gen X)QUOTE]

I have been watching V8 supercar highlights from 1999-2001. Ford must have spent a huge amount of money promoting the XR8 name and badge on many of the corner banners. The commentators say the "XR8" corner or such&such's XR8 falcon often. So all of this promotion, setting the mind set for many potential and future potential buyer has been wasted. All the young people at an influential age watching those races back then (including me) now dont have a link to a Ford V8.

Yes there is the GS, and if you are a ford fan you will know of it, but it dosnt compete in the high 30's (ute) or low 40's (sedan) to catch younger or less financially well off buyers, who will then go on to buy GS's and GT's. This is where holden have done well, moving buyers up the profit chain.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

To me it's simple, if it doesn't have a V8, it has no character. It's just transport, boring, transport. Turbo's are brutally quick, but dangerous as i'd fall asleep from boredom.

Boredom? What? How anyone could draw this conclusion after driving the FG XR8 and XR6T back to back I have absolutely no idea. The XR6T is a drivers car, the XR8 was a plodder in comparison...

What was so exciting about XR8?? You're willing to accept any inferior car as long as it has 8 cylinders?

[jpd80]

Last year was a tough year but in spite of that, FPV actually increased sales back up to 2009 levels.
Sure there's still more room for improvement but maybe sales get a little better this year for Ford and FPV.

Honestly, with the wolf at the door, the last thing Ford can afford to do is spend cash on a possible misstep,
and with Holden throwing SS Sedans out the door at $42,990 who can blame Ford staying out of the shark tank...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by blk6t

I honestly think Ford didn't do enough to give the XR8 that premium feel, Ford kept it a basic XR6 with a V8 and different bonnet, not enough and the same can be said for FPV with the GS!!!

Holden provided their V8 market with alternative models and it was successful, you could get the SS-V cheaper than getting the XR8 with leather, colour screen etc.

Holden included upgraded headlights, bigger seats with leather, larger rear wing, colour screen, gauges (crappy gauges) and bigger wheels over the SV6, customers felt like they were getting a premium sports model with a V8. Not just the SV6 with a V8.

The XR8 has always been no different from the XR6, so why change just cauz the other team does? The SS an S (SV6) had never been that different either.

The SS-V never sold as as much as the SS, because the SS was good enough for most people. And if you couldn't afford an SS, you cound get the SV6, that had the same visuall appeal.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

The XR8 has always been no different from the XR6, so why change just cauz the other team does? The SS an S (SV6) had never been that different either.

The SS-V never sold as as much as the SS, because the SS was good enough for most people. And if you couldn't afford an SS, you cound get the SV6, that had the same visuall appeal.

Times have changed.

Last years sales:
SS Sedan 1,643
SS Ute 1,758
SS S'wgn 501
Total: 3,902

SS-V Sedan 2,243
SS-V Ute 1,602
SS-V S'wgn 900
Total: 4,745

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It was earlier than that.

BA II or BF.

If Ford were to fit the 315 engine into an XR8, they should give the 335 engine to GS and put the intercooled version they haven't used yet into GT. Badge it 351 just for the sake of it.

Now that's a plan. Label the XR8/G8E as 302.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Boredom? What? How anyone could draw this conclusion after driving the FG XR8 and XR6T back to back I have absolutely no idea. The XR6T is a drivers car, the XR8 was a plodder in comparison...

What was so exciting about XR8?? You're willing to accept any inferior car as long as it has 8 cylinders?

thanks for demonstrating my point.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Boredom? What? How anyone could draw this conclusion after driving the FG XR8 and XR6T back to back I have absolutely no idea. The XR6T is a drivers car, the XR8 was a plodder in comparison...

What was so exciting about XR8?? You're willing to accept any inferior car as long as it has 8 cylinders?

your argument is boring.. repetitive.. and tiring..

[jpd80]

Instead of an XR8, what about a low boost I-6 T option for XT and G6?
perhaps something like 240 kw 450 nm similar to early BA XR6T.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Instead of an XR8, what about a low boost I-6 T option for XT and G6?
perhaps something like 240 kw 450 nm similar to early BA XR6T.

as long as it can be optioned to a v8

[Nikked]

I don't think ford seem that interested in a V8, as far as they are concerned, FPV have that market covered. Perhaps it was the fact that the BA was lumped with the 3V...who knows.

It would be interesting to see a N/A 5l cammer in the G and Xr series...