The Nanny State thread

[flappist]

I am currently wandering around New Zealand and a couple of nights ago there was a segment on the NZ version of ACA on the terrible road toll over Easter and what should be done to fix it.

Expecting a tirade of speed camera/enforcement/speed/confiscate cars/speed propaganda I was almost in shock after the head copper blamed crappy roads and pushed making better roads, replaceing older cars with newer safer ones and driver education and then THE CURRENT AFFAIRS HOST AGREED.

They then interviewed the head copper in Perth WA (the state with the lowest toll) and got an almost similar story with the words "speed" and "camera" again not mentioned.

So I now have a theory about the real difference between NZ and OZ.

In NZ there are millions of creatures wrapped in wool by God. These are called sheep and have no choice.

In OZ there are millions of creatures wrapped in cotton wool by politicians who think they are God. These are called voters and have done it to themselves.

So whose fault is it that Australia is a nanny country? And who can fix it?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

So whose fault is it that Australia is a nanny country? And who can fix it?

Grab the torches and pitchforks.

The problem with trying to vote someone out is that it'll be us, the few people who don't like the government taking away our freedom versus the majority of people who don't give a rats ***. You see the same thing around workplaces in Australia, someone in power will be making life hard for everybody, in the staff room everyone bitches about it and complains, then when someone decides to mention something, no one backs them up and that person gets crusified.

Remember, we live in a country where McDonalds has the "health tick of approval" and where racetracks get closed down or restricted because people who moved in next door complain.

[MO]

@flappist,you've been drinking their water haven't you,You were told don't drink the water.
That can't be right the blame is being put pretty much where it should be and to hear it was said in W.A. as well...omg

As for the vote routine first you've got to get the pollies nailed down and committed in such a way that they can't back out. Never happen.

Well you enjoy your break and DON'T drink anymore water!

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Grab the torches and pitchforks.

The problem with trying to vote someone out is that it'll be us, the few people who don't like the government taking away our freedom versus the majority of people who don't give a rats ***. You see the same thing around workplaces in Australia, someone in power will be making life hard for everybody, in the staff room everyone bitches about it and complains, then when someone decides to mention something, no one backs them up and that person gets crusified.

Remember, we live in a country where McDonalds has the "health tick of approval" and where racetracks get closed down or restricted because people who moved in next door complain.

Apathy is the biggest problem here now. The "she'll be right" attitude has turned us into a bunch of lemmings.

What makes me laugh is that people whinge so often about our pollies, that they all say, wait until the next election and you'll be voted out. Well thats just the problem. In 6months, 2 yrs or whenever its due the population has forgotten or doesnt care.

What happened to "NOW"??? Why do have to wait to the next election to seek our "revenge"? What happened to mass rallies and protests in order to get the message across?

Well apart from apathy... selfishness and greed also dominate us.

then when someone decides to mention something, no one backs them up and that person gets crusified.

Exactly right... as soon as someone has the guts to stand up for whats right, all the supporters scurry away because they dont want to take the heat...

[Fled74]

Originally Posted by flappist

In NZ there are millions of creatures wrapped in wool by God. These are called sheep and have no choice.

In OZ there are millions of creatures wrapped in cotton wool by politicians who think they are God. These are called voters and have done it to themselves.

Funny stuff, but depressing.

[flappist]

Even more shock and horror.

The NZ government run ads designed to reduce the road toll. They are all about don't drink and drive and "make sure your next car has dynamic stability control" etc.

No "every K over is a killer" or other speed propaganda trying to validate "road tax".

I went into a hunting & fishing shop. It was full of pump action shotguns, semi auto rifles and sliencers. The blood on the floor and footpath was not 6 inches deep.

I went for a boat ride on a commercial cruise. We were told the best view was when you were up on top of the wheelhouse, much better than the seats, but to be careful climbing up and don't put your foot through any of the windows.

I went for a ride to a chalet on a chairlift. The fence was about 3 feet tall and there were no "killing yourself by jumping off the 400m cliff is prohibited, $1000 fine" signs anywhere.
In fact heaps of people were jumping off, on bungies, swings and dual paragliders. None killed or injured for days.

I have seen farmers riding quads on the road, jetboats blasting about near kayaks, people kayaking in rivers full of 10,000 year old ice, pubs with signs in them proclaiming "we will find you safe transportation if you are too drunk to drive", road works with machines on the roads but no sign of the "lollypop hitlers" and so much more.

The scary thing is that almost every time I see one of these "prohibited dangerous activities" I immediately think "police will be here any minute to lock up these criminals" but then suddenly realise that I am not in Australia, the wool here is on the sheep not on the people and everyone seems to be having a good SAFE time.

On the radio some do gooder was pushing to lower the driving BAC. The radio host and all of those interviewed stopped just short of throwing rocks at her.

Another television segment showing up and coming sporting stars with interviews talking about how kids need rough and tumble to grow up and actually mentioned "don't wrap them in cotton wool".

The freedoms and belief in common sense in this place reminds me of a bygone era in Australia before the wowsers and social engineers got control.

I suspect they create their laws based on the average New Zealander has common sense with the exception being the odd moron.

This seems to contrast with the "the average Australian is a mindless moron who can not do anything without detailed and constant control with the exception being the odd one with common sense" approach that appears to be prevalent.

But then again all those making the laws were put in a position of power by average Australians so maybe they are not as wrong as we would hope they are.

[MAD]

It would be interesting to compare insurance premiums/contracts and some of the justice system for which I place complete blame for the current state we are in.

[zdcol71]

It would also be interesting to know how many New Zealanders are living in Australia permanently as compared to the amount of Australians to emmigrate to NZ

[WILDTRAKPX2]

Originally Posted by flappist

Even more shock and horror.

The NZ government run ads designed to reduce the road toll. They are all about don't drink and drive and "make sure your next car has dynamic stability control" etc.

No "every K over is a killer" or other speed propaganda trying to validate "road tax".

I went into a hunting & fishing shop. It was full of pump action shotguns, semi auto rifles and sliencers. The blood on the floor and footpath was not 6 inches deep.

I went for a boat ride on a commercial cruise. We were told the best view was when you were up on top of the wheelhouse, much better than the seats, but to be careful climbing up and don't put your foot through any of the windows.

I went for a ride to a chalet on a chairlift. The fence was about 3 feet tall and there were no "killing yourself by jumping off the 400m cliff is prohibited, $1000 fine" signs anywhere.
In fact heaps of people were jumping off, on bungies, swings and dual paragliders. None killed or injured for days.

I have seen farmers riding quads on the road, jetboats blasting about near kayaks, people kayaking in rivers full of 10,000 year old ice, pubs with signs in them proclaiming "we will find you safe transportation if you are too drunk to drive", road works with machines on the roads but no sign of the "lollypop hitlers" and so much more.

The scary thing is that almost every time I see one of these "prohibited dangerous activities" I immediately think "police will be here any minute to lock up these criminals" but then suddenly realise that I am not in Australia, the wool here is on the sheep not on the people and everyone seems to be having a good SAFE time.

On the radio some do gooder was pushing to lower the driving BAC. The radio host and all of those interviewed stopped just short of throwing rocks at her.

Another television segment showing up and coming sporting stars with interviews talking about how kids need rough and tumble to grow up and actually mentioned "don't wrap them in cotton wool".

The freedoms and belief in common sense in this place reminds me of a bygone era in Australia before the wowsers and social engineers got control.

I suspect they create their laws based on the average New Zealander has common sense with the exception being the odd moron.

This seems to contrast with the "the average Australian is a mindless moron who can not do anything without detailed and constant control with the exception being the odd one with common sense" approach that appears to be prevalent.

But then again all those making the laws were put in a position of power by average Australians so maybe they are not as wrong as we would hope they are.

Post of the year.

[MO]

@flappist,they're allowed to do all of that and they're still alive amazing,how do they do it. I mean doing all that sort of stuff is just insane,don't they care about themselves.
Perhaps we should send some of our guardians over there to sort things out before they are all dead or severly maimed for life.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

It would also be interesting to know how many New Zealanders are living in Australia permanently as compared to the amount of Australians to emmigrate to NZ

It would be interesting to know how much my trade earn in Nz because i think flappist just sold me a seachange

[snappy]

Originally Posted by MO

@flappist,they're allowed to do all of that and they're still alive amazing,how do they do it. I mean doing all that sort of stuff is just insane,don't they care about themselves.
Perhaps we should send some of our guardians over there to sort things out before they are all dead or severly maimed for life.

All though wasn't Krudd talking about making New zealand another state of australia . I heard this no nothing about it but if it does happen it may be interesting to see how there society accepts the changes.

[MO]

Originally Posted by snappy

All though wasn't Krudd talking about making New zealand another state of australia . I heard this no nothing about it but if it does happen it may be interesting to see how there society accepts the changes.

Interesting,although most of the Kiwis are in Bondi aren't they?

[snappy]

Originally Posted by MO

Interesting,although most of the Kiwis are in Bondi aren't they?

Not another reason why i should move to new zealand going .


I found some link about it new zealand becoming a state but it just looks like it was a slow media day and nothing official.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225840304275

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by flappist

The NZ government run ads designed to reduce the road toll. They are all about don't drink and drive and "make sure your next car has dynamic stability control" etc.

No "every K over is a killer" or other speed propaganda trying to validate "road tax".

lol, the BAC limit is 0.08 so yeah it would be dangerous to be over that. lol

Originally Posted by zdcol71

It would also be interesting to know how many New Zealanders are living in Australia permanently as compared to the amount of Australians to emmigrate to NZ

New Zealanders come over here cause the pay is rubbish over there. Other then that NZ is brilliant and not full of nancy's.

[Fled74]

That's it, I'm taking the family for a holiday in NZ!

[RSgerry]

internet censorship by the federal government. the ultimate nanny action, dressed up as 'wont someone think of the children' and framed in such a way that those who dare oppose the idea are painted as kiddie fiddlers.

[tranquilized]

Australia is way out on its own with all our rules and regulations. It's not just NZ that make this place seem like a prison - travel anywhere in Europe or the USA and the contrast is startling. Then check out South East Asia or Latin America and our lack of freedom really becomes apparent, it’s like another world over there - a much much better one. (in some ways, not all...)

As for Flappist suggesting our ability to change things through democratic process, who are you kidding? We had a change of government a few years ago, what changed? Nothing. When Rudd eventually gets the boot, again nothing will change. It’s a two party system afterall... The only way things like this get changed is with a bit of ole fashioned anarchy, but the ability to cause this is fundamentally lacking from the typical Australians complacency soaked psyche.

Sorry for the defeatist attitude but the only way I can see around this is a one way ticket outta here. Let the wowsers have this dusty ****hole to themselves!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Australia is way out on its own with all our rules and regulations. It's not just NZ that make this place seem like a prison - travel anywhere in Europe or the USA and the contrast is startling. Then check out South East Asia or Latin America and our lack of freedom really becomes apparent, it’s like another world over there - a much much better one. (in some ways, not all...)

As for Flappist suggesting our ability to change things through democratic process, who are you kidding? We had a change of government a few years ago, what changed? Nothing. When Rudd eventually gets the boot, again nothing will change. It’s a two party system afterall... The only way things like this get changed is with a bit of ole fashioned anarchy, but the ability to cause this is fundamentally lacking from the typical Australians complacency soaked psyche.

Sorry for the defeatist attitude but the only way I can see around this is a one way ticket outta here. Let the wowsers have this dusty ****hole to themselves!

And this is where you are completely wrong.

When the government changed many of the incumbent members lost their seats. They seldom get another chance as there is always the new contenders pushing for their "day in the sun".
In order to get on the power gravy train they need to be returned several times, not the party but THEY THEMSELVES.
If they suddenly discover that not doing the right thing will get THEM PERSONALLY kicked out regardless of which party wins I suspect there will be more attention paid.

Just putting up with the crap is how we ended up in this mess in the first place. Fixing it will quite probably take several election cycles, that is many years. I realise the concept of "not happen immediately" is difficult for a large percentage of own newer voters but it has taken at least 40 years to get this silly.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by flappist

And this is where you are completely wrong.

When the government changed many of the incumbent members lost their seats. They seldom get another chance as there is always the new contenders pushing for their "day in the sun".
In order to get on the power gravy train they need to be returned several times, not the party but THEY THEMSELVES.
If they suddenly discover that not doing the right thing will get THEM PERSONALLY kicked out regardless of which party wins I suspect there will be more attention paid.

Just putting up with the crap is how we ended up in this mess in the first place. Fixing it will quite probably take several election cycles, that is many years. I realise the concept of "not happen immediately" is difficult for a large percentage of own newer voters but it has taken at least 40 years to get this silly.

While so many of these rules and regulations we complain about also happen to be money spinners for various governments, change will be more difficult to achieve.

I'm no expert on politics, but I take enough of an interest to be able to make an informed vote at each election. Thats all I can do. But I dont think its enough.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

While so many of these rules and regulations we complain about also happen to be money spinners for various governments, change will be more difficult to achieve.

I'm no expert on politics, but I take enough of an interest to be able to make an informed vote at each election. Thats all I can do. But I dont think its enough.

No its not enough.

We have become so complacent and full of apathy here that most of the population simply dont want to speak out anymore. Why is it we rarely see mass demonstrations anymore?

If the government is clearly doing something wrong/ illegal/ immoral etc... why do we have to wait till the next election?

This is stupidity at its greatest to say the least.
We then honestly expect the "other" side to do a better job?
When they know for a fact that the population will not lift a finger to oppose them, let alone even write a letter to the editor.

We are over taxed, over regulated, have crappy infrastructure, a health system in crisis, our schools are failing our kids (not to mention as well as parents), yet we rarely see a large effort to stand up and say.

Hey we had enough!

[steamin63]

the pollies only do what we let them. australians generally have become stupid and apathetic [ she'll be right mate]. if you try to stand up for your rights you are labeled a ratbag or troublemaker and you get shouted down by the vocal minority , and don't expect to get backed up by anyone because it wont happen.
"i disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire 1694 - 1778.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by steamin63

the pollies only do what we let them. australians generally have become stupid and apathetic [ she'll be right mate]. if you try to stand up for your rights you are labeled a ratbag or troublemaker and you get shouted down by the vocal minority , and don't expect to get backed up by anyone because it wont happen.
"i disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire 1694 - 1778.

Bingo!

Heaven help anyone who rocks the boat....

[Jim Goose]

Oh OH!!!

Gee it only just occured to me one of the most rediculas rules and its car related!

Why is it that here in QLD that a "hotrod" (classed as a car with a chassis older then 1940 or something like that?) can have a blower? exposed engine? no seatbelts? no roll bar? etc etc etc etc!!! And be road legal?

While on a factory car you can only go 1in wider in rims that the widest fitted factory rim? Cant have an exposed blower? etc etc etc....

I hate hot rods!!!! ARGH!!

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Bingo!

Heaven help anyone who rocks the boat....

yeah have a look at what happens on this Forum when anyone suggests the road laws for Hooning and speeding are unfair,At least 20 people take the do gooder im a sheep line about how if you dont break the law then you have nothing to worry about line, .
HELLO WAKE UP,your rites are been taken away SHEEP

[MO]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

yeah have a look at what happens on this Forum when anyone suggests the road laws for Hooning and speeding are unfair,At least 20 people take the do gooder im a sheep line about how if you dont break the law then you have nothing to worry about line, .
HELLO WAKE UP,your rites are been taken away SHEEP

So you too have noticed this,here I was thinking I was the only one.

[RG]

Originally Posted by MO

So you too have noticed this,here I was thinking I was the only one.

There's still a few of us.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by MO

So you too have noticed this,here I was thinking I was the only one.

Thank god not everyone bends over and takes it in Australia,
theres hope for a rebellion still.i think we need one.

[merlin]

Where do I start?

How bout gun laws? Massivley resticted in Australia now all because of one loony Tasmanian. What it all boils down to is citizens are now effectivley disarmed, the government has all the power - resistance of any kind is long gone. Forget the save the children crap, this is what it was all about. America is far from perfect but I lived there for a while, over there a firearm is a fundamental right, you can take responsibility for your safety, you don't have to be a victim. As such most states have concealed carry laws meaning you can legally carry a handgun and defend yourself agaisnt criminals. In Australia the criminals (and the government) have all the guns, if your a citizen you have no right to defend yourself, even if a law abiding gun owner in Australia (with their big bad 5 shot bolt action locked up in your 5 inch safe) did defend themselves they would be thrown in jail for daring to shoot a criminal and defend their family. How does disarming the law abiding populace decrease crime when criminals have ready access to firearms?

On the roads - speed is the root cause of ALL collisions (note I said collision, not accident as there is no such thing), rego fees are ridiculous, insurance is ridiculous (why after 13 years of driving high performance cars/bikes without a single collision or claim do I still pay more than Joe Blow in his sensible Camry with more hits than Elvis?).

Anyone in the mining/trucking/bus industry can tell you all about the new "fatigue laws". Ridiculous laws with massive fines against companies and individuals if you dare to work more than a particular time in a particular pattern. At my workplace you now have to fill in and sign a 3 page questionare DAILY before signing on to work detailing your sleep patterns, eating patterns, commuting patterns ect in the last 2 weeks to ensure you are not too tired to work. If you tick "yes" to any box you get sent home on full pay and sent to a doctor to "Asses your fatigue" levels on the companies dime.

PC crap - everyone wants to play the race card nowdays with everything, there is no common sense, Muslims can where head scarves everywhere covering their faces but I can't wear a helmet into a servo? If a journo draws a cartoon poking fun at Islam their is blood in the streets - yet daily the newspapers, tv ect make fairly inflamatory remarks about Chrisianity and no one bats an eyelid even though that is the dominant religion in this country.

Kevin saying "sorry" on my behalf (I'm not sorry about anything) but from now on before every speech I make I MUST acknowledge the original land owners......Hmmm maybe I should acknowledge Cro-Magnum man or Neanderthals or the bacteria before them or Adam and Eve as all these people were here before the Aboriginals??? Dunno?

Internet censorship - outrageous. Sure, sure its just to block pedo sites? So why is there religous and anti-labor sites on the blacklist? Why did the Minister for Communication go on a ski holiday with the media mogul?

Government is now telling us what/how to eat, drink, smoke, drive, sleep bla bla bla. THIS WAS NEVER THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THE GOVERNMENT. Obviously there is a place for law and order and government but the government has become too big, too powerful and interfering far to much in our lives.

[Serial_Fool]

So what do we do?

We know complaining using the parliamentary instutitions won't yield results. We need a grassroots campaign akin to the Tea Party movement in America.

You have to respect other countries for not letting the government get the better of them. Something I cannot say about Australia.

The "BBQ Movement" has a good ring about it. Discuss issues effecting our rights as Australians and throw a free or cheap BBQ afterwards.