percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed - tell me the number

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Actually I would argue that cars per km of road is the better way to compare countries road toll stats here http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.VEH.ROAD.K1
So lets compare Oz to Canada where aside from many social and economic similarities the Moose, Polar Bears and snow and ice make up for the cane toads and roos.

Ok fair enough. Well I have driven several thousand kilometres in Canada as well as every state and territory of Australia and they are about as similar as NRL is to AFL.

How did you find driving there and all the states here?

[aussiblue]

Well lets go with vehicles per person as suggested and again Oz and Canada are very similar. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...H.P3/countries But I guess if we don't want to make comparison this going nowhere.

BTW you will note up to now I haven't actually expressed any opinions on the issue just referenced some facts and stats to aid the debate.

As I recall there is also lot of research that indicates the best way to reduce the road toll is with safer cars and better roads but that comes at a high cost. Nonethless, I guess eventually with technonology we will have idiot proof cars that will allow the drunks, druggies, mobile phone users and other inattentive drivers, excess speeders etc to have accidents that everyone survives. :-)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Well lets go with vehicles per person as suggested and again Oz and Canada are very similar. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...H.P3/countries But I guess if we don't want to make comparison this going nowhere.

BTW you will note up to now I haven't actually expressed any opinions on the issue just referenced some facts and stats to aid the debate.

As I recall there is also lot of research that indicates the best way to reduce the road toll is with safer cars and better roads but that comes at a high cost. Nonethless, I guess eventually with technonology we will have idiot proof cars that will allow the drunks, druggies, mobile phone users and other inattentive drivers, excess speeders etc to have accidents that everyone survives. :-)

I can find a dozen of those sort of internet pages that compare all sorts of things and while the data is probably accurate it is often skew to push an agenda.

To bring this back to a car context, a database of 0-400 times that contained cars, busses and motorcycles would show you which is quicker.

Well, unless you wanted to know which was quicker with 12 people on board.

None of these "road safety" studies ever include any "politically incorrect" information so are as useful at determining the truth as watching "home and away" is to understanding Australian culture.......

[Xauterus]

As people have said, speed is the easiest thing to measure accurately.

I think we have more road deaths due to fatigue, driver ability and road conditions. None of those are really easy to measure or to rectify.

I work in industry and we have to do a job safety analysis before every task. I wonder how that would work if you had to use a motorcycle as transport. It has a squishy human on the outside with no seat belt. It falls over when it stops.

We are all believing the do-gooders. The dream that there will be no accidents or deaths. We are all human, thus have a brain. We will have good days and bad days. The future will bring cars that that drive us to destinations, with our only input being where we would like to go.

If only one life was saved by a speed camera it would be worth it?? What about the third world where we let people starve to death for the want of a bowl of food. Is it more important to save the lives of the privileged countries? Law and order does work very well here in Australia. We are truly lucky to live here. At least a gun is not a cheque book and we have electricity and have income to afford to drive a car.

To be able to receive a speeding ticket means that we have wealth. It means we could buy that car to receive a ticket. It means we could afford the fuel to drive that car.

What does the percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed prove? maybe it just proves that people were not driving to the conditions.

What would we glean from knowing the number?
Its like that old BBC program "The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy" where the answer to life the universe and everything is 42. It was then asked. What is the question?

How do we solve that problem called human nature?

[jimmyxr6t04]

Good old speed camera debate... They DO slow me down and others; but only when we are approaching them... After that? Back to a few kms over the limit...

Riddle me this; In Canberra we have fantastic roads, some would almost be considered highway/freeway in some areas of Aus. Speed limits of 80km/h for most of them... Yet, a few kms away i can take some back roads to Captains Flat and the narrow, twisty roads are rated at 100km/h... In the 4x4 i'm lucky if i sit on 70-80km/h on some sections of those roads... Even in my Caprice i wouldn't push past 100km/h on many sections of it... Hell, many of the dirt roads are 80-100km/h!!

Dead straight roads, dual lanes with speed cameras and limited to 80km/h... Tight twisty roads, and you can legally do 100km/h if you dare... Not a speed camera in sight!

My cousin from Europe couldn't believe the 'stupid' speed limits for such nice driving conditions. Just goes to show, we've all been conditioned.

The people who want to speed excessively will know where to go, or do it regardless. The other poor buggers who go over the limit by a few kms are the ones being slogged.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Good old speed camera debate... They DO slow me down and others; but only when we are approaching them... After that? Back to a few kms over the limit...

Riddle me this; In Canberra we have fantastic roads, some would almost be considered highway/freeway in some areas of Aus. Speed limits of 80km/h for most of them... Yet, a few kms away i can take some back roads to Captains Flat and the narrow, twisty roads are rated at 100km/h... In the 4x4 i'm lucky if i sit on 70-80km/h on some sections of those roads... Even in my Caprice i wouldn't push past 100km/h on many sections of it... Hell, many of the dirt roads are 80-100km/h!!

Dead straight roads, dual lanes with speed cameras and limited to 80km/h... Tight twisty roads, and you can legally do 100km/h if you dare... Not a speed camera in sight!

My cousin from Europe couldn't believe the 'stupid' speed limits for such nice driving conditions. Just goes to show, we've all been conditioned.

The people who want to speed excessively will know where to go, or do it regardless. The other poor buggers who go over the limit by a few kms are the ones being slogged.

The better roads are the lesser speed limit as temptation is higher to speed, instant money spinner
The ruffer outta town roads ,there is probably less traffic,less temptation and as you mention not many would do the limit let alone faster

Same as why is there sections on major highways that limits drop to 80 Ks for no reason along a nice section of road

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by flappist

I can find a dozen of those sort of internet pages that compare all sorts of things and while the data is probably accurate it is often skew to push an agenda.

To bring this back to a car context, a database of 0-400 times that contained cars, busses and motorcycles would show you which is quicker.

Well, unless you wanted to know which was quicker with 12 people on board.

None of these "road safety" studies ever include any "politically incorrect" information so are as useful at determining the truth as watching "home and away" is to understanding Australian culture.......

so we should just dismiss these studies and research with a wave of our hand ?

sorry but your use of terms like 'skew' and 'politically incorrect' are imho a poor way to dismiss possibly better info than you or I are likely to provide on the topic

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I personally don't care if there is cameras or not. Don't speed and you wont get fined, don't run a red light and you'll not get t-boned don't play with fire and you wont get burned and don't believe everything you read, investigate the author, the method of data collection and the countering argument collect the whole story then form an opinion, as you can see there are always two sides, always both with an agenda.

JP

I played with fire for 27 yrs as a natural course of my career. I didn't get burned. How the hell did I survive????

Its called training and education. It gives a much better outcome in the long term than punishment!

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by noflac52

I played with fire for 27 yrs as a natural course of my career. I didn't get burned. How the hell did I survive????

Its called training and education. It gives a much better outcome in the long term than punishment!

i like it

training and education (cost money & saves lots more lives)

or

bad drivers that get fined (earn govt money and saves negligable amount of lives)

Voters need to make the choice

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

The better roads are the lesser speed limit as temptation is higher to speed, instant money spinner
The ruffer outta town roads ,there is probably less traffic,less temptation and as you mention not many would do the limit let alone faster

Same as why is there sections on major highways that limits drop to 80 Ks for no reason along a nice section of road

Wonder where the majority of single vehicle accidents occur, or head ons. On those rural roads (or in Qlds case the Bruce which should be reclassified NR1 for national rural road 1) . Yet the focus is on high volume high quality roads/freeways.
That is why the majority of people are cynical of ANY govts motives.
No one is ever going to stop the reckless adreline filled teen in their P plate legal car from rapping themselves around a tree except perhaps a VISIBLE presence of the coppers on patrol. Statistically minded might find they make up a big % of the toll (P platers) and speed cameras don't address that problem either!

[steve.zissou]

just re linking to my SA study showing becuase for some reason they got rid of my original link

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/__data/***..._Book_2011.pdf

this shows excesive speed is the cause of less than 7% of fatalities in SA
i have tried a number of times to get this info from NSW govt and RTA and so far all they give me is BS like one of their tv ads.

[burnz]

RTA has remove all freedom of info, why i'll leave that to someone imagination.

as for S.A. what is the speeding % ??

[blueoval]

The RTA doesnt want truthful facts getting in the way of an agenda driven revenue campaign.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Revolver 45

Everything from rain (light drizzle), other traffic, or skippy making an appearance at the wrong time.

one could argue that if you are driving to the conditions then you should adjust your speed accordingly, for example 80 k's in a flash flood like rainstorm could be considered 'speeding'. "Light drizzle" can make a long term dry road slippery. Known kangaroo haunts need to be treated with real care, so 'speeding' though these areas at sunrise or sunset could be considered doing more than 60km/h

'Speeding' in road safety terms doesn't always mean exceeding the posted speed limit.

When Police refer to speeding I am pretty confident that they are referring to the prevailing conditions as well as the posted speed limit

Just saying!!!

[1TUFFUTE]

ive always thought it a shame that police/gov target speed rather then skill level of drivers. Ive said this before here many times.......women drivers are terrible......take note of the gender in cars you see cutting people off....driving thru lights..the wrong way up streets....no blinkers.....on mobilephones and the list goes on.
And as far as the leading cause for accidents.....I thought it was elderly people where the number one thing related to crashes. Read it somewhere.

Speed killsoh really......well so does lack of skill....ignorance....drugs....lack of respect for cars abilities....and so on.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

ive always thought it a shame that police/gov target speed rather then skill level of drivers. Ive said this before here many times.......women drivers are terrible......take note of the gender in cars you see cutting people off....driving thru lights..the wrong way up streets....no blinkers.....on mobilephones and the list goes on.
And as far as the leading cause for accidents.....I thought it was elderly people where the number one thing related to crashes. Read it somewhere.

Speed killsoh really......well so does lack of skill....ignorance....drugs....lack of respect for cars abilities....and so on.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the demographics of drivers on the road. I have had my fair share. In saying this, it is easier to police speed and more lucrative to pounce on compared to tackling the REAL reasons. Plus with the 'discrimination' law on the edge of everyone's lips these days, I can only imagine how well picking on the fairer sex and the elderly would go down in today's society.

Keeping this in mind, I never knew what Chaos on the roads was until I was in a taxi in Bangkok city. Scooters everywhere. People walking in the middle of the road willy nilly. These guys completely ignore road rules, probably dont have a licence, drive on opposite sides of the road, ride on scooters with no helmets, yet I did not see 1 person get on their soap box all angry with road rage or sprout how unfairly treated they were when someone cuts in front or pushes in. Yes there are some toots of the horn but surprisingly I did not see one accident despite the complete manic way they all drove.

To this day I am still surprised I didnt see someone get killed by this level of behavior. Before you jump up and down and get your knickers in a knot about countries having different laws, level of health care/OHS/3rd world country etc yes I know they are different countries. What I am saying is I personally now look at aussie drivers so much differently now that if someone cuts me off, I think so what, yeah your a pathetic clown, and you have done wrong by the book, but I've been in worse situations and if it means I get to my destination 1 or 2 min later and with my sanity and car in tact, I am happy.

Im not saying this is solution for all, but sometimes seeing it from a different perspective, relaxing ones expectations on what YOU think others should do, can help gain some perspective on how good our life really is compared to others. I know its not right in Australia, but life is too short to hold grudges.

sorry to go OT

end rant

[XR Martin]

Latest Wheels mag has two interviews with a ex traffic cop and regular cop.
Both of which say that only a small percentage of accidents are attributed to just excessive speed.
Theres also a quote from a paramedic who claims to have attended thousands of accidents and can count of one hand how many were excessive speed related.

[b0son]

The numbers used to be on the ATSB site back in the 90s, since taken down. Crashes attributed to exceeding the speed limit were less than 10%.

[Trevor 57]

excessive speed isn't always about the 'speed limit', it is speed for the conditions