Thousands of Aussie Ford owners could take part in class action over ‘defective automatic gearboxes’

[mik]

Originally Posted by axe

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...7e51fec33b8223

Well that's going a bit far isn't it? Who in their right mind would sign something like that when trading a car in?

I suppose if you where the owner of one of these with transmission problem and could not get rid of it , you might sign it in desperation ..

[mik]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

The same theory most manufacturers work on - i.e. most people don't know/care what's under the bonnet - works in the reverse in these cases.

Most people will just see Focus/Fiesta and think they are all the same defective junk regardless of what mechanical changes they make to them. Getting rid of the PowerShift won't mean anything as it was sold as an "automatic" anyway .. any automatic (and probably manual) Focus/Fiesta will be seen as the same thing.

yes any way you spin its a disaster really , i wonder who at ford signed off on this gear box to say it was super grousely engineered and all ready for the motoring public , if it was a high up dude in the company , i`m betting he`s putting the bucket seats in on the production line now .

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by mik

I suppose if you where the owner of one of these with transmission problem and could not get rid of it , you might sign it in desperation ..

.. and then blab about it via the anonymity of the Internet

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

.. and then blab about it via the anonymity of the Internet

I'd prefer to use the term "warn as many as possible against buying these vehicles" I personally do not go onto websites/forums to "blab", apart from here, I only vent here, after all it is a forum where ALL things Ford is to be discussed good and bad.

but the frustration we have had and the arguments we have endured with Ford "service" as well as my wife being told "oh it's the way you drive it" and being treated like a fool that makes me want to grab the lot of them and shake some sense into them.

Ford has released another problem (yet again) onto the unsuspecting public and then refuse (yet again) to acknowledge and fix it until forced into a corner as is happening here.

Ford has been in contact with us with an extended warranty and a reasonable trade in offer which is good of them I admit but my BA and my wife's Fiesta as well as consequent treatment has assured us to stay well away from Ford forever more.

However the purchase of another new car is a minefield in it's own right, every vehicle has "issues".

I have learnt of late to do my research, google the vehicle before purchase to find any faults but then there are folks out there that bag cars simply to hear their own voice

very hard to get a "good one" without issues now.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by mik

yes any way you spin its a disaster really , i wonder who at ford signed off on this gear box to say it was super grousely engineered and all ready for the motoring public , if it was a high up dude in the company , i`m betting he`s putting the bucket seats in on the production line now .

The situation would have most likely been caused by development pressures. The engineering dept developing the transmission would have been given a fixed timeframe to develop and design the transmissions, which would have been fairly tight due to the tighter emission requirements being introduced, and competition from other manufacturers. New transmission concepts are being developed at a rapid rate these days, mainly to improve fuel consumption and emissions to meet new requirements.

Therefore with the short and fixed timeframe, the refinements and durability testing to ensure the transmission exceeded expected lives would have been limited, pressured further by the upper management to get the new gearbox into production (which also takes time) and on the road.

And I think this scenario is prevalent across most engineering depts manufacturers these days. Some have been more fortunate than others.

Which leads to Poppa Smurfs statement above:

However the purchase of another new car is a minefield in it's own right, every vehicle has "issues".

very hard to get a "good one" without issues now.:

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

but the frustration we have had and the arguments we have endured with Ford "service" as well as my wife being told "oh it's the way you drive it" and being treated like a fool that makes me want to grab the lot of them and shake some sense into them.

100% spot on, I made many post's in the DSG transmission thread in the Focus area that started on the 1/7/2013.
3 years worth of complaints here for those who haven't seen it and want to read, this is how long it has been simmering..
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11399507

[poppa smurf]

what gives me the grits is that it is a lovely little car otherwise......just a pain in the proverbial to get about in......but Ford "service" is the main deciding factor in our new car purchase they are just not interested in resolving the obvious issues as they were with the BA

we paid cash and bought all the after market goodies we will do the same with her next vehicle

worries me when I see new vehicles coming out with more cogs in smaller areas, makes me wonder what issues are going to arise in them, ten gears where 3 used to sit, sometimes smaller, something must give surely

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I would be very wary about this class action. One settlement for the Black Saturday Bushfire was reached in December 2014, another was reached in May 2015 and it is reported the claimants may have to wait until early 2107. http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bl...05-gmn9g4.html

Now that's a disgrace!!!!!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

what gives me the grits is that it is a lovely little car otherwise......just a pain in the proverbial to get about in......but Ford "service" is the main deciding factor in our new car purchase they are just not interested in resolving the obvious issues as they were with the BA

we paid cash and bought all the after market goodies we will do the same with her next vehicle

worries me when I see new vehicles coming out with more cogs in smaller areas, makes me wonder what issues are going to arise in them, ten gears where 3 used to sit, sometimes smaller, something must give surely

There is something to be said for not upgrading to the latest wizz bang new trend technology imo.
You hear blokes calling certain brands "white goods" for not having all this latest wizz bang stuff and being somewhat boring , i`d go with the boring proven old tech any day .

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I would be very wary about this class action. One settlement for the Black Saturday Bushfire was reached in December 2014, another was reached in May 2015 and it is reported the claimants may have to wait until early 2107. http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bl...05-gmn9g4.html

Clever strategy. Most of the claimants would be dead by 2107.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

but the frustration we have had and the arguments we have endured with Ford "service" as well as my wife being told "oh it's the way you drive it" and being treated like a fool that makes me want to grab the lot of them and shake some sense into them.

Mates got one .. had this issue. Gearbox replaced once, and likely the replacement is on its way out soon. He was told all the same stuff by Ford including the "you don't know how to drive it". Which is very amusing considering this guy has owned vintage cars and hotrods all his life. A modern car isn't "difficult" to drive in comparison. I think he found TSB documents from Ford which he showed them which helped convince he wasn't going to ignore the issue ..

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by mik

There is something to be said for not upgrading to the latest wizz bang new trend technology imo.
You hear blokes calling certain brands "white goods" for not having all this latest wizz bang stuff and being somewhat boring , i`d go with the boring proven old tech any day .

frightens the hell out of me I'm afraid, don't know what is going to go wrong or where or how much.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Mates got one .. had this issue. Gearbox replaced once, and likely the replacement is on its way out soon. He was told all the same stuff by Ford including the "you don't know how to drive it". Which is very amusing considering this guy has owned vintage cars and hotrods all his life. A modern car isn't "difficult" to drive in comparison. I think he found TSB documents from Ford which he showed them which helped convince he wasn't going to ignore the issue ..

the old girl is looking at different vehicles now and getting trade in prices, which are not good, apparently the problem is well known to all dealerships and they don't actually want them, she has had enough,

apparently the car played up pretty badly today, she relies on it for work (in home care provider for 2 organisations, 120 hours average working fortnight) she can't be bothered anymore with it, the thing is just due for its first service, time, not kilometres

I think the vehicle will trade hands before Tuesdays appointment

[Cheech]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

the old girl is looking at different vehicles now and getting trade in prices, which are not good, apparently the problem is well known to all dealerships and they don't actually want them, she has had enough,

apparently the car played up pretty badly today, she relies on it for work (in home care provider for 2 organisations, 120 hours average working fortnight) she can't be bothered anymore with it, the thing is just due for its first service, time, not kilometres

I think the vehicle will trade hands before Tuesdays appointment

I am aware of a lady at my local dealership who traded in a power shift on a new XR6. She got the XR at list price, decent trade in and FOA contributed $7500 to the deal as well. You might want to try this route.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Cheech

I am aware of a lady at my local dealership who traded in a power shift on a new XR6. She got the XR at list price, decent trade in and FOA contributed $7500 to the deal as well. You might want to try this route.

do you know what she got on her trade in, the wife has been offered $8,000 for hers, seems low to me

[Stefan]

This will be interesting. Having owned a DSG Audi and having sold it with 140,000kms on the ODO with out issue, I bet the biggest issue for Ford is fitting a DSG to a mainstream car that does not suit the vast majority of drivers.

Very few people I have driven with are capable of driving at a single constant speed. The vast majority will drive 100m on a straight bit of road and get on an off the accelerator 5 times and hit the brake 3 time for no apparent reason. A taxi I was in a few month ago literally pressed the accelerator for a second then got off it for a second then back on, over and over again for 15 minutes.

If you drive like that with a DSG and it will be an unbearable ride as it won't know what to do and will wear out in no time as it engages and disengages constantly. I can just imagine my 77 year old mother in a DSG car, it would be a nightmare.

That is how they are, and I bet when Ford service guys say it is how you drive it, I imagine they are probably right in a lot of cases.

I think it is the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers...

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Stefan

This will be interesting. Having owned a DSG Audi and having sold it with 140,000kms on the ODO with out issue, I bet the biggest issue for Ford is fitting a DSG to a mainstream car that does not suit the vast majority of drivers.



Very few people I have driven with are capable of driving at a single constant speed. The vast majority will drive 100m on a straight bit of road and get on an off the accelerator 5 times and hit the brake 3 time for no apparent reason. A taxi I was in a few month ago literally pressed the accelerator for a second then got off it for a second then back on, over and over again for 15 minutes.



If you drive like that with a DSG and it will be an unbearable ride as it won't know what to do and will wear out in no time as it engages and disengages constantly. I can just imagine my 77 year old mother in a DSG car, it would be a nightmare.



That is how they are, and I bet when Ford service guys say it is how you drive it, I imagine they are probably right in a lot of cases.



I think it is the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers...

You are right. But the problem is there was no alternative automatic transmission to sell. So they were simply sold as autos. That's a mistake.
They really benefit from being driven hard. As you say if you're on and off the throttle everywhere and putt around everywhere, it's not the box for you.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by Cheech

I am aware of a lady at my local dealership who traded in a power shift on a new XR6. She got the XR at list price, decent trade in and FOA contributed $7500 to the deal as well. You might want to try this route.

If this is the dealership I think it is I have bought quite a few cars from them.

I might see what happens if I go along there and look at the new Kugas.

[kazawaki]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I'd prefer to use the term "warn as many as possible against buying these vehicles" I personally do not go onto websites/forums to "blab", apart from here, I only vent here, after all it is a forum where ALL things Ford is to be discussed good and bad.

but the frustration we have had and the arguments we have endured with Ford "service" as well as my wife being told "oh it's the way you drive it" and being treated like a fool that makes me want to grab the lot of them and shake some sense into them.

Ford has released another problem (yet again) onto the unsuspecting public and then refuse (yet again) to acknowledge and fix it until forced into a corner as is happening here.

Ford has been in contact with us with an extended warranty and a reasonable trade in offer which is good of them I admit but my BA and my wife's Fiesta as well as consequent treatment has assured us to stay well away from Ford forever more.

However the purchase of another new car is a minefield in it's own right, every vehicle has "issues".

I have learnt of late to do my research, google the vehicle before purchase to find any faults but then there are folks out there that bag cars simply to hear their own voice

very hard to get a "good one" without issues now.

One word HONDA That's what I bought my wife when Ford ****ed me off.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

You are right. But the problem is there was no alternative automatic transmission to sell. So they were simply sold as autos. That's a mistake.
They really benefit from being driven hard. As you say if you're on and off the throttle everywhere and putt around everywhere, it's not the box for you.

Yeah great point and I agree, if my mum drove one she would complain guaranteed and think there was something wrong with it.

I actually really loved the thing, I bought my car as 6 month stop gap as I sold a Territory and someone offered me their Audi for beer money. I expected to sell or trade it in 3 to 6 months and ended up driving it for 3 years...

[In Focus]

No problem with mine or the wife's cars. And the wife had a Fiesta with the same DCT before that. Must be (bad) luck of the draw, though there doesn't seem to be as big a problem in the European fora I visit. Certainly not as big a problem as in the U.S. and Aussie ones.

There may be something in the way they are driven here that contributes to the higher problem rate. I've heard people who have had third party aftermarket DSG software tunes have got better results, not that you should have to get one of those to get your car to drive properly.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Very few people I have driven with are capable of driving at a single constant speed. The vast majority will drive 100m on a straight bit of road and get on an off the accelerator 5 times and hit the brake 3 time for no apparent reason.

Probably the same people who stare intently at the speedo just to make sure that they're not 1km/h over the speed limit. Their speed will hover between 65 and 69km/h in a 70km/h zone.

I agree with your point. I've driven several Powershift equipped cars - including Focus and Fiesta - as loan cars and have never had a single problem with them. So I honestly don't see what the problem is.

[Cheech]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

do you know what she got on her trade in, the wife has been offered $8,000 for hers, seems low to me

That part I dont know.

[Cheech]

Originally Posted by GTP534

If this is the dealership I think it is I have bought quite a few cars from them.

I might see what happens if I go along there and look at the new Kugas.

I was led to believe the power shift was purchased at the same dealer. So they helped arrange the deal with FOA

[mik]

Originally Posted by Stefan

This will be interesting. Having owned a DSG Audi and having sold it with 140,000kms on the ODO with out issue, I bet the biggest issue for Ford is fitting a DSG to a mainstream car that does not suit the vast majority of drivers.

Very few people I have driven with are capable of driving at a single constant speed. The vast majority will drive 100m on a straight bit of road and get on an off the accelerator 5 times and hit the brake 3 time for no apparent reason. A taxi I was in a few month ago literally pressed the accelerator for a second then got off it for a second then back on, over and over again for 15 minutes.

If you drive like that with a DSG and it will be an unbearable ride as it won't know what to do and will wear out in no time as it engages and disengages constantly. I can just imagine my 77 year old mother in a DSG car, it would be a nightmare.

That is how they are, and I bet when Ford service guys say it is how you drive it, I imagine they are probably right in a lot of cases.

I think it is the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers...

you may have a point , but if it was designed to be only driven in a certain manner differing from a conventional unit that can be driven anyway you like for years without a problem , then again its a major fail on fords part , because as you stated many people do drive in an on and off sort of manner , and in the big smoke , at times its almost impossible not to.

And to add another fail , from what we have seen they are a dog to repair when they do go wrong/ require refurbishment , customers mention the words dsg to a dealer service guy and he`s packed his suitcases and gone for a tosca .

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

you may have a point , but if it was designed to be only driven in a certain manner differing from a conventional unit that can be driven anyway you like for years without a problem , then again its a major fail on fords part , because as you stated many people do drive in an on and off sort of manner , and in the big smoke , at times its almost impossible not to.

And to add another fail , from what we have seen they are a dog to repair when they do go wrong/ require refurbishment , customers mention the words dsg to a dealer service guy and he`s packed his suitcases and gone for a tosca .

Some of the public feedback on the Ford sounds identical to what people experience with VW's DSG, including dealers telling them "they have to adapt their driving style to it". This type of gearbox is useless, verging on dangerous for low speed driving in traffic around town and therefore is absolutely useless overall, no matter how good it might be on the open road.

It's basic common sense to design a product to be foolproof for worst case operating environment and the lowest common denominator among its operators.

[OzJavelin]

Personally I think it's a solution to a problem which didn't really exist ..

Originally Posted by Stefan

I think it is the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers...

Being more optimistic I'd suggest it's the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers applications .. not necessarily the drivers themselves. Most people aren't buying Focus/Fiesta for long, fast trips. They buy them to potter about in city traffic, inching forward, performing numerous tight turning and parking scenarios.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by In Focus

No problem with mine or the wife's cars. And the wife had a Fiesta with the same DCT before that. Must be (bad) luck of the draw, though there doesn't seem to be as big a problem in the European fora I visit. Certainly not as big a problem as in the U.S. and Aussie ones.

There may be something in the way they are driven here that contributes to the higher problem rate. I've heard people who have had third party aftermarket DSG software tunes have got better results, not that you should have to get one of those to get your car to drive properly.

Most Europeans would not touch a automatic as a daily run about. I have rellos there who laugh at the thought of driving an automatic and say us Australians can't drive.
Maybe that's why there are less complaints regarding the autos in Europe?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by au2000

Most Europeans would not touch a automatic as a daily run about. I have rellos there who laugh at the thought of driving an automatic and say us Australians can't drive.
Maybe that's why there are less complaints regarding the autos in Europe?

I actually have a theory that one of the reasons VW and Ford Europe foisted dual clutch autos on us is that the vast majority of the European car fleet is manual and driving with autos is not much in their consciousness so they don't give a lot of hard thought to the consumer point of view. So it's left in the hands of their engineers to play experiments because it doesn't affect the majority of their home market.

Brands that are big on the USA market like BMW and Merc in particular don't fool around with left-field stuff. I sometimes wonder what Americans think of DSG in their VWs?

[lra]

When my daughter was shopping for a new car, we had a list of ‘must have’ and ‘must not have’ ( dual clutch, and CVT ) features that qualified the car as a ‘possibility’
When looking at the Focus, I asked the salesperson what type of gearbox it had ......... “Automatic”
“Yes, but what type, DSG dual clutch, CVT or torque converter ?”
“I don’t know”
“Can you find out, and tell us ?”
He reluctantly disappeared for 10 minutes, probably to have a cup of coffee, and complain to his collegues about the smartRRs prospective customer, then returned and proceeded to extol the virtues of the new gearbox, at which point I said “Sorry, the Focus doesn’t fit into our list”
“Why not ?”
“For the same reasons that you are telling us how great it is”.
Glad now that we didn’t go ahead with a Focus, because I would not like to be told now that after using a wooden handled hammer for years, buying a new one with a composite plastic handle, then breaking it at first use, that I don’t know how to hold a hammer.