VFACTS - July 2024

[prydey]

That should complete Franco's bingo card for the thread, going off topic.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

That should complete Franco's bingo card for the thread, going off topic.

We need to keep PG2 on his toes otherwise if it wasn't for me his hair would have grown back

[kypez]

Originally Posted by prydey

https://data.aaa.asn.au/ev-index/



EV sales, while still increasing have definitely softened. 1-2 years ago there was a big surge as more and more manufacturers entered the market and prices came down.



Sales have softened since. Hybrids appear to be having a surge but too early to say if it will continue longer term. While a lot is simply Toyota sales, it's not all of it.



Having said that PHEV aren't really showing a big change so perhaps it is largely the Toyota effect.

We won't see EV growth like 2 years ago again until they unlock a new segment. In this country, it's the dual cab ute segment.

When Toyota decides all their Hilux's will be hybrid, we'll see a huge jump in hybrids again.

For the rest of the year, I'm willing to wager that hybrid numbers continue to grow like crazy based on Toyota alone and their change in strategy. And the comparison to this time last year will (month by month) will look like people have gone all in on hybrids whilst it's just Toyota purchases where consumers can't option anything but a hybrid.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm somewhat interested in the new Suzuki Swift hybrid even though it's the latest thing ever

12V 'hybrid' with a 3KW electric motor, that's why it costs cents in the dollar because it's a joke

It's the first time that segment has had someone introduce a new technology to it in the last 20 years

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm somewhat interested in the new Suzuki Swift hybrid even though it's the latest thing ever



12V 'hybrid' with a 3KW electric motor, that's why it costs cents in the dollar because it's a joke



It's the first time that segment has had someone introduce a new technology to it in the last 20 years

Might only be 3kw but probably 40Nm of torque which is what they need. Plug the low end torque deficit.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm somewhat interested in the new Suzuki Swift hybrid even though it's the latest thing ever

12V 'hybrid' with a 3KW electric motor, that's why it costs cents in the dollar because it's a joke

It's the first time that segment has had someone introduce a new technology to it in the last 20 years

Yaris is hybrid only now, range starts at $32k!

[XR Martin]

Swift hybrid has a 1.2L, 61kw/112nm.
Don't think the electric motor is doing much...

[kevino]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Swift hybrid has a 1.2L, 61kw/112nm.
Don't think the electric motor is doing much...

Elec motor 63 nm of torque
At certain times
Car only weighs 950 kg
It’s 12.5 sec 0/100
But prob doesn’t feel slow

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Elec motor 63 nm of torque
At certain times
Car only weighs 950 kg
It’s 12.5 sec 0/100
But prob doesn’t feel slow

So it weighs about 100kg more than a 1990s Ford Festiva and makes the same power and torque as something with one camshaft and only two valves per cylinder that's a 30 year old engine

I feel Suzuki would have been better served by just using their 1.4L 'boosterjet' engine across the entire range rather than dealing with the complexity of introducing the world's most useless electric motor

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Ford at head office level have long and not-so-proud history of trying to control markets and brands they have no clue about. What works in the US home market doesn't always translate into other markets.

One Ford - somehow other car companies manage to make a car for the whole world, but for some reason it alludes US car makers. One Ford had merit, but it never worked did it. Focus would have to be the most obvious, trying to balance the European and American needs in a small car delivered a deeply flawed vehicle. The Mondeo ended up being taken down-market in terms of quality, which was at odds with the European flagship statis, whereas the Fusion twin was a fleet hack.

One Ford actually did a lot of good at the start, it forced Ford to consolidate a lot of US wastage
but what it failed to understand is that regionalisation was still a very important part of global sales.
Ford Europe actually carried the whole of Ford during the 2006 to 2009 period but then, head office
decided to stinge out on proper product refreshes and the twenty teens saw steady decline as
Ford missed vital changes in market tastes in Europe, from ther it was a slippery slope to today.

Jaguar-Landrover-Aston Martin-Volvo - while Ford brought money to the table, old habits die hard and Ford attempted to nickel and dime these brands the same as they would have done with the mother brand. Ford simply didn't understand how to run these upmarket brands, from a financial management point of view, but from a brand image and product point of view. Most notable being the retro styling they insisted on for Jaguar, it simply played to an aging customer base and didn't bring fresh blood to the brand, so Jaguar treaded water and didn't flourish. Excluding Jaguar, and perhaps Aston Martin, Landrover and Volvo have flourished under Indian and Chinese control.

The whole reason Ford bought those brands and started the Premier Auto Group was to
create another income stream the size of Ford Europe. What Ford didn’t understand
was the huge up front costs in maintaining the freshness of premium platforms and vehicles.
Warranty costs were killing them as well to the point that Ford regretted ever buying Jaguar.


The big upside was Volvo, that brand integrated well with Ford and gave it injections of
important technology like CANBUS and platform designs with a lot of inbuilt crease protection.
Volvo did its best with aging product to basically cover the mounting losses with J/LR And Aston Martin.

One of the kindest things about the J/LR sale was Ford’s condition that the new owner fund the
designated platform development program ove the coming years ~$8 billion back then)
And the the worst part was J/LR throwing the toys out of the cot because Lincoln was given
a DEW based vehicle (their platform developed at Ford) and their utter refusal to integrate with Ford.
In the end, it’s fair to say they Ford had no business owning J/LR, not when it couldn’t even
manage Lincoln properly

Ford Australia - I think we all know how this ended, but not without a fight. There were far too many occasions to note where Ford US tried to impart US-market know-how onto the Australian team, and time and again Ford Australia proved them wrong. Downsized Falcon replacement (early-80's), FWD Falcon replacement (Taurus), a downsized and imported V6 (mid 90's and late 2000's)......................and on and on. Then the revolving door of Americans sent to run Ford Australia, all either failed or failed to do what their US overlords wanted..........use an existing platform/vehicle or shut it down. Only one was successful, but it cost him his career at Ford............Robert Graziano. I think we all hated him at the time, but no one wanted that responsibility of closing three factories and firing all the staff.

Ford are hardly unique in this regard, GM have a long history of driving brands into the ground as well, mainly because they had no clue what they were doing. Saab, Holden, Vauxhall and Opel..........................

There was a kind of inevitability with GM brands wasting away and then being killed but those fans
have every right to be aggrieved when GM took the lazy way to exist Europe but also RHD markets.

The experts will tell us ther wasn’t a thing to be done to save low volume Ford Australia but
I find it amazing how much money Ford spent trying to win Chinese fans for what looks
like becoming a rout there, a fraction of that money invested in Australia may have seen
a small but lucrative return all on the smell of an oily rag….

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Swift hybrid has a 1.2L, 61kw/112nm.
Don't think the electric motor is doing much...

It's not the peak numbers. It's where it is available. That 112 would be at high up. Be good to see the torque curve

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

So it weighs about 100kg more than a 1990s Ford Festiva and makes the same power and torque as something with one camshaft and only two valves per cylinder that's a 30 year old engine

I feel Suzuki would have been better served by just using their 1.4L 'boosterjet' engine across the entire range rather than dealing with the complexity of introducing the world's most useless electric motor

Trying to get their co2 count down so they can run the 1.4 dirty motor in sport Vitara s cross - as you know nves numbers really tighten up year on year
This is a clean motor co2 emissions below 100 - 89 I fhink

[kevino]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's not the peak numbers. It's where it is available. That 112 would be at high up. Be good to see the torque curve

Think it’s about 4200 rpm
So five speed manual is the go and ring the life out of the engine

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

So it weighs about 100kg more than a 1990s Ford Festiva and makes the same power and torque as something with one camshaft and only two valves per cylinder that's a 30 year old engine

I feel Suzuki would have been better served by just using their 1.4L 'boosterjet' engine across the entire range rather than dealing with the complexity of introducing the world's most useless electric motor

What about the fuel economy?
4/4.5 ltrs per 100 km is bloody good
You have to have base model five speed ring the living daylights out of it while roaring round corners and roundabouts
But yeah it’s a motor with low numbers but it’s all about the carbon emissions and fuel economy

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

One Ford actually did a lot of good at the start, it forced Ford to consolidate a lot of US wastage
but what it failed to understand is that regionalisation was still a very important part of global sales.
Ford Europe actually carried the whole of Ford during the 2006 to 2009 period but then, head office
decided to stinge out on proper product refreshes and the twenty teens saw steady decline as
Ford missed vital changes in market tastes in Europe, from ther it was a slippery slope to today.



The whole reason Ford bought those brands and started the Premier Auto Group was to
create another income stream the size of Ford Europe. What Ford didn’t understand
was the huge up front costs in maintaining the freshness of premium platforms and vehicles.
Warranty costs were killing them as well to the point that Ford regretted ever buying Jaguar.


The big upside was Volvo, that brand integrated well with Ford and gave it injections of
important technology like CANBUS and platform designs with a lot of inbuilt crease protection.
Volvo did its best with aging product to basically cover the mounting losses with J/LR And Aston Martin.

One of the kindest things about the J/LR sale was Ford’s condition that the new owner fund the
designated platform development program ove the coming years ~$8 billion back then)
And the the worst part was J/LR throwing the toys out of the cot because Lincoln was given
a DEW based vehicle (their platform developed at Ford) and their utter refusal to integrate with Ford.
In the end, it’s fair to say they Ford had no business owning J/LR, not when it couldn’t even
manage Lincoln properly


There was a kind of inevitability with GM brands wasting away and then being killed but those fans
have every right to be aggrieved when GM took the lazy way to exist Europe but also RHD markets.

The experts will tell us ther wasn’t a thing to be done to save low volume Ford Australia but
I find it amazing how much money Ford spent trying to win Chinese fans for what looks
like becoming a rout there, a fraction of that money invested in Australia may have seen
a small but lucrative return all on the smell of an oily rag….

Ford China and Ford Europe are two pigs in a poke

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Our household is in the same boat....my wife is making more noise about not wanting to drive the Territory anymore and something smaller.......nothing in a Ford dealership apart from Mustang and Puma a size too small...and selling/trading the Terry (for me) would be like deciding which finger needs 2cm cut off...I even dropped in to a Ford dealer to check out the new Transit Custom just so maybe I get some new Ford...my Vito was serviced yesterday and they gave me an A180 loaner...wife drove if for 15 mins....said yeah nice but even she thought it was too low and small...I sarcastically replied ..that's because a friggin Territory has fantastic driving position even for a 5'2" wifey like you....

There are some good low mileage petrol AWD Escapes still available.

https://www.cityford.com.au/stock/al...le/Ford/Escape

[kevino]

Q Ford in Brisbane have 24 new and near new Escapes for sale

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

There are some good low mileage petrol AWD Escapes still available.

https://www.cityford.com.au/stock/al...le/Ford/Escape

A cousin in Vic just picked up a ex demo PHEV ST Line Escape for $44.5k. Its a 23 build but only has 3k km on it. Alot of car for the $$$ IMHO.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

A cousin in Vic just picked up a ex demo PHEV ST Line Escape for $44.5k. It’s a 23 build but only has 3k km on it. Alot of car for the $$$ IMHO.

That’s an excellent pick up, kudos to your cousin.

While the PHEV Escape is a great vehicle, it’s a shame that the smaller battery hybrid is not available.
I think a hybrid Escape would have been a great rival for hybrid RAV4 that’s being delivered in droves..

So strange, we have the RHD of UK Europe but the vehicles that would work here best are USA LHD.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s an excellent pick up, kudos to your cousin.

While the PHEV Escape is a great vehicle, it’s a shame that the smaller battery hybrid is not available.
I think a hybrid Escape would have been a great rival for hybrid RAV4 that’s being delivered in droves..

So strange, we have the RHD of UK Europe but the vehicles that would work here best are USA LHD.

Wouldn’t Maverick and Bronco not cannabilise Ranger Everest sales thus throwing the Thailand factory under the bus?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

There are some good low mileage petrol AWD Escapes still available.

https://www.cityford.com.au/stock/al...le/Ford/Escape

We actually had a Vignale with 20" wheels on order December 2020 and cancelled it nearly a year later after it had gone through a few model spec changes and some removal of standard features present at time of contract signing (e.g. no heated rear seats, no heated steering wheel, external electric door locking for rear doors etc, switch to synthetic leather on some trim..) which we only found out through online media and this forum, never from the dealer or company...and then to rub salt in my festering anger, they wanted a release signed stating we make no claims for spec changes.....I asked if I don't sign what happens...they wouldn't hand over the vehicle.

My anger only grew and no compensation for discontenting was offered or even apologised for ... and the car by now was floating past Freemantle on the way to Melbourne.

I got my deposit refunded in half an hour.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

We actually had a Vignale with 20" wheels on order December 2020 and cancelled it nearly a year later after it had gone through a few model spec changes and some removal of standard features present at time of contract signing (e.g. no heated rear seats, no heated steering wheel, external electric door locking for rear doors etc, switch to synthetic leather on some trim..) which we only found out through online media and this forum, never from the dealer or company...and then to rub salt in my festering anger, they wanted a release signed stating we make no claims for spec changes.....I asked if I don't sign what happens...they wouldn't hand over the vehicle.

My anger only grew and no compensation for discontenting was offered or even apologised for ... and the car by now was floating past Freemantle on the way to Melbourne.

I got my deposit refunded in half an hour.

Very bad.
What did you buy instead?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

We actually had a Vignale with 20" wheels on order December 2020 and cancelled it nearly a year later after it had gone through a few model spec changes and some removal of standard features present at time of contract signing (e.g. no heated rear seats, no heated steering wheel, external electric door locking for rear doors etc, switch to synthetic leather on some trim..) which we only found out through online media and this forum, never from the dealer or company...and then to rub salt in my festering anger, they wanted a release signed stating we make no claims for spec changes.....I asked if I don't sign what happens...they wouldn't hand over the vehicle.

My anger only grew and no compensation for discontenting was offered or even apologised for ... and the car by now was floating past Freemantle on the way to Melbourne.

I got my deposit refunded in half an hour.

We have a 2023.25 AWD Vignale, and it is awesome.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

We have a 2023.25 AWD Vignale, and it is awesome.

Probably got all the features back as the semi conductor shortage was addressed by 2023

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by kypez

Probably got all the features back as the semi conductor shortage was addressed by 2023

Nope, it’s fine as is. Goes like “stink”, economy is awesome, has a glass roof and drives like a dream (even on 20” wheels).

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kevino

Very bad.
What did you buy instead?

A Merc Vito 119CD LWB and kept the Terry...hence why the lovely wife thinks time to go smaller...

[prydey]

Getting back to car sales, I have noticed more and more Cupra models in recent times.

Initially I thought it was another cheap Chinese marque but soon discovered it was neither cheap nor Chinese.

Yet another member of VAG.

Started as subsidiary of SEAT or something but is now it's own brand.

For the price, I'm surprised how many I see around. Have others noticed similar in other states?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by prydey

Getting back to car sales, I have noticed more and more Cupra models in recent times.



Initially I thought it was another cheap Chinese marque but soon discovered it was neither cheap nor Chinese.



Yet another member of VAG.



Started as subsidiary of SEAT or something but is now it's own brand.



For the price, I'm surprised how many I see around. Have others noticed similar in other states?

Initially thought it was going to replace SEAT but not that sure anymore. Just another VAG product that is same same. Slightly more aggressive styling but yeah, not sure why they exist. Skoda give you more space on the same platform but these cars look and feel very VW so don't understand their positioning

[smoo]

Europcar rentals have a whole lot of the hatch and small SUV, and I think the electric version of the SUV.
I had one last year as a hire. I could be wrong but I think they are a VW Golf GTi in another skin.
Went ok. Enough to torque steer at 130k but being a hot hatch the ride was too rough to be an enjoyable daily driver.

[prydey]

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of overlap with most of the VAG cars. Got to wonder how they can make it work but I guess each brand is essentially a separate business.