Definitive AU1 to AU2/AU3 brake upgrade thread

[mif73]

Originally Posted by dcstraight

You won't be able to use a S1 master cylinder on a S2/3 booster as they mount on different angles too.

I think I read that the pedal push rod may jam if you install a S2 Booster in a
S1 firewall, they may have changed the angle of the firewall, apparently if you make a 4 mm wedge, it will compensate for this.

Not sure about an angle change between the Booster and master though, will need to see 2 side by side.

[dcstraight]

Originally Posted by mif73

Not sure about an angle change between the Booster and master though, will need to see 2 side by side.

Post up a pic of the two assemblies side by side when you get the chance

[mif73]

Originally Posted by dcstraight

Post up a pic of the two assemblies side by side when you get the chance

I will Steve, if I can find 2 side by side.

[superroo]

BF Booster (With Shortened Pushrod) & AU 1 tonne master in my S1. Previously BF master as well.
Never herd or had this jamming issues.

Didn't solve my pedal issues. Turned out to be air trapped in the rear calipers, that was only removed once they unbolted from hub and piston pushed all the way back in.

[BlueBear]

Originally Posted by superroo

BF Booster (With Shortened Pushrod) & AU 1 tonne master in my S1. Previously BF master as well.

Any details on how much shorter the rod has to be?
Also, how did you fit the booster to the firewall, drill more holes?
I just picked up a series 3 front end for the brake upgrade, got the booster and rear brakes as well, so thinking of doing it all as per series 3 spec.

Was thinking though of just cutting 2 of the booster bolts off and mounting it that way? or are the bolts all in different places? (haven't taken the series 1 off yet to check the bolt positions...)

I also neglected to get the bolts that hold the callipers to the upright, will the series 1 bolts be OK or do I need the series 3?

Cheers,

[Silver']

Re: calliper bolts, series one has the pad seats built into the upright and the calliper bolts to the upright through the slides. Totally different setup to the series 2/3. So you'll need bolts.

See the pics in the first post of this thread.

There's probably also a pic of the boosters in here somewhere, but if it has gone from 2 bolts to a 4 bolt design, there won't be any that line up. The uppers will be higher than before, and the lowers will be lower. I'm assuming though...

[BlueBear]

Thought so - re the bolts anyway.

Will have to check out both boosters side by side i reckon, but I think your right there as well...

Thanx,

[Silver']

I had a quick look at the workshop manuals in here and it's worth checking the boosters side by side as the EF-EL type (was a carry through to AU right?) has the studs on a diagonal.

http://fordforums.com.au/wsmpub//eflwx/2-3.html

http://fordforums.com.au/wsm/au/Part%202-3.html

[XF_Pilot]

Question for the experts here.

I know the BF Turbo style brakes adapt to an AU front with no problems and the rears require the spacer etc as described here.

My question is can the rears only be adapted to an IRS AU or is it the same for the HP model with a live beam axle?

If they only suit the IRS model, do any of the B series brakes fit the live axle models?

Thanks!

[LPGUTE]

they will fit non IRS fine, but the hose will rub the upper trailing arm if not modify.

[XF_Pilot]

Excellent. Thank you. I just read on another forum that you have Tobias the carriers off a BF wagon or Ute and that's no problem.

[monroc]

Just reading about upgrading my brakes I have a series 1 ute and have upgraded the brakes etc to a series 2 just wondering do i need to also fit the abs system and if so what other parts do i need to get a wrecker told me I meed the master cylinder plus the pedals etc for all this to work any help would be really appreciated thanks steve

[Fairlane Al]

A couple of quick questions, I'm looking to upgrade my series 2 AU to BF XR6 brakes, the 322mm setup.

Am I correct in my understanding that these calipers will simply bolt straight on to a series 2 AU, that all I need is pads, calipers and rotors and I'm good to go? Also does a 322mm rotor need to be specifically a BF Falcon rotor or can I use Territory 322mm rotors? What about pads?

Also if does anyone know if a series 2 brake rotor can be used on a series 1 Falcon, as if my current rotors are still good when I do the changeover I would be happy to give them to my brother, save wasting perfectly good and barely used equipment.

[superroo]

Originally Posted by monroc

just wondering do i need to also fit the abs system

No, no need. Car has been homolgated without ABS. Only a problem to go the other way.

Originally Posted by Fairlane Al

Am I correct in my understanding that these calipers will simply bolt straight on to a series 2 AU.

Yes no problem. I have BA GT 325mm's on mine. I have herd talk of the standard lines being possibly to short though, do keep an eye on that.

Originally Posted by Fairlane Al

Also if does anyone know if a series 2 brake rotor can be used on a series 1 Falcon.

No, different thicknesses and I can't recall if the hat height/offset is the same

[Fairlane Al]

Another supplementary question.

I understand the BA Premium brakes, with the 325mm rotors are the best brakes this side of a Brembo. Are these calipers still available new from either Ford or PBR or am I going to have to find them second hand?

Also I have read other places on the internet that BF XR brakes, the ones that use the 322mm rotor and standard B series brakes with the 298 mm rotor both use the same calipers and pads. Is this true or am I hearing something of a furphy?

[StuC]

Hey all,
probably a silly question but whats the difference between the AU2/3 LCAs/uprights and the BA ones? Looking at doing BA upgrade for the extra size and instead of grabing all the arms, swaybar etc from the AU then tracking down the calipers, discs carrier off the BA i was just gonna rip the whole lot out at once from a BA.

Dice or no dice?

Also whats the gp with rears? I have S1 fairmont with live axle and ABS. BA rear discs slot over and calipers/carriers all good to bolt straight on?

To confirm booster/master issues too - AU2/3 booster and master is ideal however i will need to modify the firewall by drilling 4 holes and possibly fabricating a wedge to account for the different shaped firewall? I will be going braided lines in the future but much rather the correct M/C and booster combo straight up.

Cheers,
Stu

[BlueBear]

Started doing a Series 3 XR upgrade to my series 1 Fairmont.
I got the full suspension and brakes front and rear and the booster and master cylinder al for $150, so a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Am waiting for new front rotors and pads as I thought it was also worthwhile.
I don't drive anywhere nears as hard as I used to, so standard late model brakes should be fine.

I thing I would like to show that I did was instead of undoing the bolts of the front crossmember I just took my little 1mm cutoff wheel out and cut the tail off the bolt.
Can't see why it should cause any probs as it's only that length to assist in locating the crossmembers when they are assembled.
No real heat, took about 10 seconds to cut it off.
The lower wishbone came out easy as.
I think the other advantage is the you don't disturb any chassis alignment as nothing is loosened off.


Both vehicles had ABS fitted but it's interesting the the sensor is on the other side of the axle, behind rather than in front.

And seeing I'm changing springs and all I get the tab to hold the brake line in the correct place. Not that easy to see, but there all the same...


No, I didn't bother cleaning all the replacement parts up...

Anyway, just some observations.

Cheers.

[JAJH]

I'm going to add a"howto" to this thread as I have an unusual situation or somewhat rare brake setup. I have an AU3 with factory fitted Tickford Premium brakes, however after lots of research I don't have a definite answer why. Here goes...my Premium brakes calipers (factory fitted) are located at about 2 o'clock and they sit behind the stub axle. Now, I know there are those of you out there who say they have the same or the opposite, I havent got any real answer as to why Ford fitted them either forward or rear of the stub axle. Anyway, I have bought a set of 6/4 Brembos which I was told came form a "B" series but later found out they are off a Territory. The "B" series Brembos sit forward of the stub and the Territory sit behind, like the FG does. So, trial fitting the Brembo/bracket I discovered the bracket fouls on the stub axle and finding and the correct Brembo brackets for an AU is nigh on impossible and ridiculously expensive if found. I figured the answer was to source a 2nd hand stub axle setup from an AU 2/3 with the mounting holes forward of the stub axle. $100 later I had a full setup including callipers, wheel bearings and upper/lower control arms. I didn't need all the extras bit and only used the stubs. Matt from Race Brakes, Sydney was his usual helpful self and sold me a set of FG mounting brackets/hoses which are a damn sight cheaper than AU brackets. The brackets mounted straight up at the front of the stub axle and the FG hoses bolted on also. The only issue I had was the rear Brembos require new hoses to be made and the mounting bracket require a 2mm shim so the caliper centres over the rotor. As I used FG brackets the calipers sit slightly at an angle rather than the vertical position but the upside is I didn't have to fit the calipers left to right, right to left, upside down, change bleed nipples and cross over pipes, so the pistons are in the correct position with the largest one at the trailing of the rotor.

BTW: I will be selling the Premium Brake setup if anyone is interested.


Below are some pics of my mechanics doing the job for me today...

As you can the the Premium brakes calipers site behind the stub axle:


The Premium caliper off, you can see the mounting holes are behind the stub axle.


The replacement stub axle with mounting holes forward of the stub axle.


FG mounting bracket fitted ready for the caliper.


Front caliper bolted on.


The rear mounting bracket with 2 x 2mm shims between the bracket and mounting holes.


Rear rotor and caliper bolted on.


And the finished result.

[DEATH_INC]

Originally Posted by Grug1

A local wrecker I contacted has done several of these upgrades on AU series I's and suggested going with the EB swaybar and links rather than AUII or later swaybar.

has anyone attempted this upgrade with the EB bar??

Just thought this needed bringing up again as I spent over an hour looking for the answer;
The EB bar can be used, but it isn't the ideal solution. It bolts to the factory AU1 swaybar mounts, but it doesn't curve outwards towards the wheel. It requires drilling a new hole in the lower arm for the link to attach through, in the 'web' of the arm near where the hole the abs wire clip goes through, which of course reduces the effectiveness of the swaybar, due to the changes in leverage ratio applied.

I used AU2/3 arms/bar.

I just upgraded the front of My AU1 xr8 to 322's with slotted discs and Znoelli Hi-temp pads, a couple of things worth mentioning I think...
If you have an XR8 it has a 27mm swaybar...most of the non-XR's only have a 23mm bar (I got an aftermarket 30mm one after I noticed ....)
I used new BA lines and the original bolt on brake line brackets from the BA (no cable ties ) and it all fitted together perfectly, the Pedal is no spongier than before either.
I did it comfortably in a shade under 5 hours-drive in drive out...though I did use the hoist at work and a power bleeder...

[Uncle_Ken]

Mine XR8 now has Terry rears from an SX


UK

[mif73]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Ken

Mine XR8 now has Terry rears from an SX
image

UK

Noice!
would be interesting to see how the front to rear bias changes, especially in the wet.
So did you have to remove the dust shields? How close is the wider disc to the tie rod ball joint now?

Cheers.

[Uncle_Ken]

QUOTE=mif73;5570116]Noice!
would be interesting to see how the front to rear bias changes, especially in the wet.[/QUOTE]
I haven't hit the sids yet in the wet. But when I was running them in on a private road no dramas when I broke very hard on a damp service.

Originally Posted by mif73

So did you have to remove the dust shields?

YES you had to remove the rear dust covers (haven't look at fitting terry ones)

Originally Posted by mif73

How close is the wider disc to the tie rod ball joint now? Cheers.

Very close but similar to before. I'll take a pic next time their off. So far no dramas.

UK

[HanSolo]

Originally Posted by StuC

Also whats the gp with rears? I have S1 fairmont with live axle and ABS. BA rear discs slot over and calipers/carriers all good to bolt straight on?

Has anyone got any light to shed on this one? I think I understand the front brakes but I want to make sure I get everything I need off the donor car for the rear before I get rid of it.

[JC]

Originally Posted by HanSolo

Has anyone got any light to shed on this one? I think I understand the front brakes but I want to make sure I get everything I need off the donor car for the rear before I get rid of it.

Not sure about live axle, but I when I converted my series 1 XR8 (IRS), I had to use a 3mm spacer for the rear calipers to centre the disc. You could use a large washer, or I made mine out of some aluminium bar.

[Silver']

Originally Posted by HanSolo

Has anyone got any light to shed on this one? I think I understand the front brakes but I want to make sure I get everything I need off the donor car for the rear before I get rid of it.

IRS or live rear axle, they all take the same rear rotor in the non performance models so that's a good sign.

[HanSolo]

Finally got around to doing the conversion.

Front was as per this guide.

Rear, all we did was remove the Rotors and calipers with mounts, took the brake hose off the caliiper end and put it all straight on. The only difference was that they had to be mounted on the opposite wheel so the bleed nipple was above the brake line. Other than that all seems good and they bite well when warm, hoping they bed in soon.

[XF_Pilot]

People who have put B series Turbo brake on an AU 2/3.

Did you run the standard AU or BF brake lines? I want to get braided lines and need to know which ones to order for when I convert the brakes

Thanks!!

[PridenJoy]

Mine runs AU hoses

[Uncle_Ken]

Originally Posted by XF_Pilot

People who have put B series Turbo brake on an AU 2/3.

Did you run the standard AU or BF brake lines? I want to get braided lines and need to know which ones to order for when I convert the brakes

Thanks!!

Standards but its just enough.
UK

[XF_Pilot]

Standard AU or BF? Do they need to be slightly longer?