Alternative to FG XR6 (No Holdens) That I Should Consider [up tp 40K]

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The SV6 is actually a better car then some here would like to admit..

On paper alone its better then the XR6 now.. Id probably buy one if I was comparing it to an XR6 atm... especially in the ute guise, its a better looking machine.

In what respects? All I see in the SV6 is a comparatively unrefined machine that has considerably less torque at a much higher point in the rev range than the XR6, is considerably less powerful in real life driving conditions (i.e. not drag racing at the lights), has an absolutely deplorable automatic transmission (with the Falcon's being the gold standard; lacking even the low speed jerkiness associated with the DSG in my mum's car)... and an absolutely ghastly interior in Series II form (though I concede that is open to subjectivity). The Commodore's flat (a.k.a. inconvenient) boot is smaller than that of the Falcon. You can't even get a 60/40 split fold seat! Sorry, but I just don't see the value in that.

The plastics in the Falcon are also of much better quality than those of the Commodore; yes, the Falcon interior quality has declined, but the Commodore's is still worse.

You might say to me that "those things don't matter, I was talking about the amount of kit you get for your money." There's a small problem with that statement: What kit? Comparing the standard equipment lists of the XR6 vs. SV6 leads me to conclude that they are marginally different; the SV6 has dual zone, but from my experience at least, dual zone climate control does nothing to cool down different areas of the car.

Yes, the Holden has a touch screen. Too bad it's unresponsive, slow, difficult to use (especially while driving), and has poor sound quality. It is only the last criticism that can be levelled at the Falcon. It's so poor that it even gives the VW touch screen system a run for it's money (that's saying something!). However, I don't hold any high hopes for the now Territory's system.

Not only that, but the Falcon is both cheaper to buy AND run. The Falcon returns a fuel economy figure of 9.9 L/100km, whereas the Commodore returns a fuel economy figure of 10.1 L/100km (with a much better engine to boot!)

The Falcon is also safer than the Commodore according to ANCAP (whether their tests are accurate is another argument for another day). While they both recieved five star safety ratings, the Falcon recieved an aggregate score of 34.61/37, whereas the Commodore recieved an aggregate score of 33.45/37, giving the Falcon the edge there.

Oh wait, I just thought of something the Commodore does better than the Falcon: a limited slip differential is available!

I'm sorry, but can somebody please explain the alleged superior value of the Commodore to me? It seems like the Falcon is better on most counts!

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by stevz

Who the hell looks at torque vs rpm charts when buying a new car?

Who the hell looks at 0-100 times when buying a new car?
Torque vs. RPM charts have much more relevance in real world driving than 0-100 km/h times. A lot of people spend plenty of time performing long distance driving (and want torque on demand at low RPM, which is provided by the 4.0i OHC), and not drag racing muzzas at the traffic lights.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

It's faster in a straight line than the XR6, what does that tell you?

Which test are you using to determine this? From my experiences, the Falcon felt much more powerful, without the 'screechiness' that accompanies Holden's rough old V6.

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I bet most people commenting haven't even driven a VEII SV6, they just go with the general consensus that SIDI is crap and Commodores aren't anything special. In the real world, there's not much in it. The 3.6 SIDI is a competent motor, end of story. It's faster in a straight line than the XR6, what does that tell you? The SV6 is a better handler

I have driven a VEI SV6 with SIDI and Alloytec (though not a series II). Both experiences led me to believe that the Falcon feels better around corners. As well as this, the Falcon's steering is also more communicative (perhaps more importantly).

I'll let these quotes also do the talking:

"I think i prefer my Falcon to name deleted's Commodore. It feels better on the road."- My grandfather comparing his AUI Futura sedan to his friend's VE Omega

"I put my foot down, it makes lots of noise, but just doesn't go anywhere! I can see why you prefer the Falcon"- My dad (whose blood bleeds red) assessing the performance of the VE SV6 SIDI when on a freeway.

And now for a review (thanks to a quick Google):

"[The XR6] didn't have to rev its engine as hard to achieve similar performance [to the SV6 SIDI]"- CarPoint

"Simply put, the XR6 is the superior vehicle in terms of driving dynamics. That is, it feels smoother when changing direction, as the vehicle's weight shift is more progressive"- CarPoint

"Ultimately the FG Falcon is a newer car with more advanced suspension, which would go some way to explaining its dynamic advantage. By and large both cars were always fairly close through the fast stuff, but the Falcon tracked more cleanly through corners and was easier to drive hard, requiring less effort to get the most out it."- CarPoint

"The Commodore SV6's steering is a little lighter with more power steering assistance than the XR6's (more suited for tight manoeuvres and commuting) but this lightness masked feel and feedback somewhat, such as when attacking corners at full tilt"- CarPoint

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Not only that, but the Falcon is both cheaper to buy AND run. The Falcon returns a fuel economy figure of 9.9 L/100km, whereas the Commodore returns a fuel economy figure of 10.1 L/100km (with a much better engine to boot!)

Actually the MY11 ute recieves 9.8l and the Sedan 9.9l, need to check some of your facts.
http://www.vecommodore.com/series-ii/fuel-economy.html

Alot of the other stuff you say is open to interpretation, I actually prefer the VE interior. And they are practically the same in safety, the FG is a newer chasis and only scores 1 better? lol

With the amount of problems I've had with my FG and poor after sales service I dont know what my next car will be, but it defs wont be Ford, I don't mind paying the extra $$. My FG is also getting thirstier with more Km's, should be run in by now.

EDIT: in stock form the SV6 is faster 0-100 and 1/4mile, I remember a thread on here with times. Not much in it but goes to show they are pretty close.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Which test are you using to determine this? From my experiences, the Falcon felt much more powerful, without the 'screechiness' that accompanies Holden's rough old V6.

I have driven a VEI SV6 with SIDI and Alloytec (though not a series II). Both experiences led me to believe that the Falcon feels better around corners. As well as this, the Falcon's steering is also more communicative (perhaps more importantly).

I'll let these quotes also do the talking:

"I think i prefer my Falcon to name deleted's Commodore. It feels better on the road."- My grandfather comparing his AUI Futura sedan to his friend's VE Omega

"I put my foot down, it makes lots of noise, but just doesn't go anywhere! I can see why you prefer the Falcon"- My dad (whose blood bleeds red) assessing the performance of the VE SV6 SIDI when on a freeway.

And now for a review (thanks to a quick Google):

"[The XR6] didn't have to rev its engine as hard to achieve similar performance [to the SV6 SIDI]"- CarPoint

"Simply put, the XR6 is the superior vehicle in terms of driving dynamics. That is, it feels smoother when changing direction, as the vehicle's weight shift is more progressive"- CarPoint

"Ultimately the FG Falcon is a newer car with more advanced suspension, which would go some way to explaining its dynamic advantage. By and large both cars were always fairly close through the fast stuff, but the Falcon tracked more cleanly through corners and was easier to drive hard, requiring less effort to get the most out it."- CarPoint

"The Commodore SV6's steering is a little lighter with more power steering assistance than the XR6's (more suited for tight manoeuvres and commuting) but this lightness masked feel and feedback somewhat, such as when attacking corners at full tilt"- CarPoint

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

In what respects? All I see in the SV6 is a comparatively unrefined machine that has considerably less torque at a much higher point in the rev range than the XR6, is considerably less powerful in real life driving conditions (i.e. not drag racing at the lights), has an absolutely deplorable automatic transmission (with the Falcon's being the gold standard; lacking even the low speed jerkiness associated with the DSG in my mum's car)... and an absolutely ghastly interior in Series II form (though I concede that is open to subjectivity). The Commodore's flat (a.k.a. inconvenient) boot is smaller than that of the Falcon. You can't even get a 60/40 split fold seat! Sorry, but I just don't see the value in that.

The plastics in the Falcon are also of much better quality than those of the Commodore; yes, the Falcon interior quality has declined, but the Commodore's is still worse.

You might say to me that "those things don't matter, I was talking about the amount of kit you get for your money." There's a small problem with that statement: What kit? Comparing the standard equipment lists of the XR6 vs. SV6 leads me to conclude that they are marginally different; the SV6 has dual zone, but from my experience at least, dual zone climate control does nothing to cool down different areas of the car.

Yes, the Holden has a touch screen. Too bad it's unresponsive, slow, difficult to use (especially while driving), and has poor sound quality. It is only the last criticism that can be levelled at the Falcon. It's so poor that it even gives the VW touch screen system a run for it's money (that's saying something!). However, I don't hold any high hopes for the now Territory's system.

Not only that, but the Falcon is both cheaper to buy AND run. The Falcon returns a fuel economy figure of 9.9 L/100km, whereas the Commodore returns a fuel economy figure of 10.1 L/100km (with a much better engine to boot!)

The Falcon is also safer than the Commodore according to ANCAP (whether their tests are accurate is another argument for another day). While they both recieved five star safety ratings, the Falcon recieved an aggregate score of 34.61/37, whereas the Commodore recieved an aggregate score of 33.45/37, giving the Falcon the edge there.

Oh wait, I just thought of something the Commodore does better than the Falcon: a limited slip differential is available!

I'm sorry, but can somebody please explain the alleged superior value of the Commodore to me? It seems like the Falcon is better on most counts!

So with all of that aggregated ANCAP data, Carpoint/grandfather quotes, claimed economy figures & generally subjective conclusions, what you are trying to say is, the VEII SV6 can't hold a candle to FG? Interesting, seeing as the VEII SV6 is a better car. Out of interest, which model of FG do you own?

[kezzer]

Also, pretty sure the xr6 vs sv6 quotes he got were from the old Series 1 with the SIDI, not the Series 2 with SIDI. Needs to fix up a few of his facts.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Which test are you using to determine this? From my experiences, the Falcon felt much more powerful, without the 'screechiness' that accompanies Holden's rough old V6.

The SV6 (with the SIDI engine) was 0.2 seconds quicker down the quarter. But the XR6 was much quicker around the track.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Also, pretty sure the xr6 vs sv6 quotes he got were from the old Series 1 with the SIDI, not the Series 2 with SIDI. Needs to fix up a few of his facts.

Indeed they were.

[JC]

Nissan maxima.

3 year old 350Z.

2009/10 WRX or STi.

lot's of sub $40K cars that do a better job than falcon depending on what you want.

[FTE]

I liked the look of the FG XR6 and was happy when we hired an FG XR6 (with 14400km on clock) over the weekend to drive from Mackay to Moranbah and back. We did roughly 500km and drove both day and night.
Now I expect no one will agree but from my point of view the FG XR6 started off nice but after 50km of highway driving I actually prefered our VY SS Commodore. Now thats bad for an early Commodore with ten times the km to feel better than a 2011 FG (and im not talking the power, its ergonomics and ride quality. Night driving was worse coz the centre display reflected off the windscreen and just made me hate it more.
Think we'll stick with the older SS and XR8 for now

[krzysiek]

Seems there is a bit of push going on for the VE II SV6. As I noted, I have sat in one and I cannot say that I dislike the interior. As for the rest, well, I am yet to drive it so I have no idea about that part.

It seems like it would, at *worst*, be a little behind the XR6, at best... it might be better? So, basically, I need to make up my own mind and get in one and drive.

To me, the SV6 would stand a good chance if I could have it on dedicated LPG though (with the performance figures that we are to expect from the new XR6 LPi) as then it would make one of the most important factors ( = performance while maintaining cheap running cost) very close between the two.

As of now, it seems the Holden and XR6 as, for my purposes, same/similar in performance but the running costs is where they will differ (when the LPi is out) and that is unfortunately really putting a hurdle there for me. Will give it some more thought, and thanks JC will check them out!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by krzysiek

Seems there is a bit of push going on for the VE II SV6. As I noted, I have sat in one and I cannot say that I dislike the interior. As for the rest, well, I am yet to drive it so I have no idea about that part.

It seems like it would, at *worst*, be a little behind the XR6, at best... it might be better? So, basically, I need to make up my own mind and get in one and drive.

To me, the SV6 would stand a good chance if I could have it on dedicated LPG though (with the performance figures that we are to expect from the new XR6 LPi) as then it would make one of the most important factors ( = performance while maintaining cheap running cost) very close between the two.

As of now, it seems the Holden and XR6 as, for my purposes, same/similar in performance but the running costs is where they will differ (when the LPi is out) and that is unfortunately really putting a hurdle there for me. Will give it some more thought, and thanks JC will check them out!

mate you have lots of people throwing you off your 1st post in this thread . try not to listen to most tossers here doing this . soon they will be complaining about foot rests , and trying to sell you a nice pair of driving boots with compendiums .
stick to your guns , sorry you get caught up in all this crap that so often happens here . as i think this started off a good thread with wise questions being asked , only to be sidelined by tossers questioning your reason for asking . buy the FG LPI XR6. forget the holden you stated you dont want one , and take what others have said about other cars that might be suitable . however none of them will be as unique as the new xr6 lpi .or new for that matter .

[Elks]

Try a 2nd hand FPV for that money.

Early FG F6

It's cool
It's a jet
It's reasonable on fuel (if you don't always belt it)
It will hold it's value reasonably well (if your a 2nd owner)

my 2c

T

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate you have lots of people throwing you off your 1st post in this thread . try not to listen to most tossers here doing this . soon they will be complaining about foot rests , and trying to sell you a nice pair of driving boots with compendiums .
stick to your guns , sorry you get caught up in all this crap that so often happens here . as i think this started off a good thread with wise questions being asked , only to be sidelined by tossers questioning your reason for asking . buy the FG LPI XR6. forget the holden you stated you dont want one , and take what others have said about other cars that might be suitable . however none of them will be as unique as the new xr6 lpi .or new for that matter .

Agree, I'm a Holden man at heart, but the XR50 I get around in for work is the best Aussie Six ever built.

The only reason I would get a SV6 is because of the sportwagon, very nice, sexy time

[RASER]

[quote=fairlaneman]Who the hell looks at 0-100 times when buying a new car? quote]

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000

I thought it was just me!

I look at driveability, quality, MPG, safety, service costs, warranty, back up, resale etc

The Falcon is actually very good at most of those requests of mine

NEVER have i been concerned about 0 - 100kmh or "brochure" H/Power

[R1XSTA]

At the end of the day;

"If you want fast and reliable, it won't be cheap."
"If you want reliable and cheap, it wont be fast."
"if you want cheap and fast, it won't be reliable."

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The SV6 (with the SIDI engine) was 0.2 seconds quicker down the quarter. But the XR6 was much quicker around the track.

When SIDI 3.6 SV6 was compared by Wheels against the FG XR6. The Falcon was quicker by 1/10th.

The times posted were slower than Motor, but that is because they have two people aboard.

Using the FG XR6 as the reference point.
* SV6 faster by 0.2s with driver only
* SV6 slower by 0.1s with passenger
The story is therefore the Falcon's reknowned torque kills the Commodore. Add a 2nd passenger and extrapolated, the Falcon is 0.4s clear.

Anyway, this is all getting a bit off topic. The OP has decided he will most likely be buying the EcoLPi in the near future!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by phillyc

When SIDI 3.6 SV6 was compared by Wheels against the FG XR6. The Falcon was quicker by 1/10th.

The times posted were slower than Motor, but that is because they have two people aboard.

Using the FG XR6 as the reference point.
* SV6 faster by 0.2s with driver only
* SV6 slower by 0.1s with passenger
The story is therefore the Falcon's reknowned torque kills the Commodore. Add a 2nd passenger and extrapolated, the Falcon is 0.4s clear.

Anyway, this is all getting a bit off topic. The OP has decided he will most likely be buying the EcoLPi in the near future!

I never saw that second one, thanks. I really couldn't care when there is SFA in it.