If the market has shifted to SUV's where are they? - Page 4

new2ford · 24-05-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Serious question - why is step-in height an issue for so many people? Past injury? Physical size? I've never had a problem with a low step-in height and every car I've owned is as low to the ground as legally and practically possible, and I hope to keep it that way!

Jacking up a wagon kinda defeats the purpose - low center of gravity is essential for enjoyable driving dynamics and active safety. And that's the one factor that cannot be overcome no matter how good the SUV is - the laws of physics are petty much impossible to beat and a car with a low centre of gravity will always be superior (all things being equal) in the handling department.

I guess it would be one or more of physical condition, age, height and ease of lifting children and objects in and out. Some also like the high driving position. You'd be debating this with about a third of the driving population so obviously a lot of people have an issue with low cars! If the demand is there, the manufacturers will meet it.

I can think of a hell of a lot of low cars that the Territory runs rings around in driving pleasure. Maybe not a Falcon but definitely e.g. Camry, Cruze, just to name two I've experienced recently. A well sorted SUV (Territory, BMW Xs) gives a lot of driving pleasure and the primary active safety is high.

Franco Cozzo · 24-05-2015, 03:51 PM

Higher cars are easier to get in and out of, ever since I did my lower back its easier to get in/out of higher vehicles.

Though the seat is another big decider in comfort for us with injuries, I find I need something with good thigh and side bolstering, otherwise cars with flatter seats give me nerve pain after about 15 minutes of driving.

Express · 24-05-2015, 04:37 PM

I find high cars a pain for getting the elderly in and out of.

Lower cars are easier as I can assist to lower them down into the seat or help them stand when getting out.

I struggle to lift their weight into a high car and if they have little strength in their legs they can't assist to step up to get to the seat.

Of cause there is a happy medium between the two and wide opening doors are a big help, that’s when a coupe has an advantage

Ben73 · 24-05-2015, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

What ever you want I guess...just saying 99% of the time SUVs are useless. I see no point in compromising on handling, performance, comfort, running cost and up front expense for no benefit other than to put a piece of furniture in the back. Makes no sense.

25 years ago never seen an SUV, we all got on, furniture got moved around OK....

Why do you / did you own an XR6? Did you need a large sedan with a powerful 6 cylinder engine? Small hatchbacks are great for driving people and a bit of luggage around. They are so good at it we bought one today.
Or if you did want a larger sedan I am sure a Camry could do almost everything an XR6 could do while still being easier on the wallet.
This is a rhetorical question. I would choice and XR6 over a Camry any day of the week because I like them more. My point is it's not all about getting the cheapest car possible all the time.

Sure heaps of people who own SUVs could probably live without it, especially all these small softroaders which have less interior space than a large sedan and almost no offroad capability, but really it's their choice. The owner has to drive it everyday, so if they are happy to sacrifice handling, performance and some fuel cost to make themselves happy then best of luck to them. Most people don't give 2 ***** about performance and handling anyway. Plus someone coming from say a large 6 cylinder sedan and trading it in for a 4 cylinder softroader their fuel cost will most likely go down anyway.

People Movers seam to be getting pretty good these days, but if I required 7 seats right now, I would most likely get a larger SUV because I like them more. Personal preference would play a major factor in what I bought. Couldn't care less what others think.

As for this 4x4 dual cab craze, many guys I work with own 4x4 dual cabs and almost all of them either use the 4x4 capabilities, the tray capabilities or both.
There are probably about 20 to 30 dual cabs in the car park and only a couple seam to own them just for the sake of it.

new2ford · 24-05-2015, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

I find high cars a pain for getting the elderly in and out of.

Lower cars are easier as I can assist to lower them down into the seat or help them stand when getting out.

I struggle to lift their weight into a high car and if they have little strength in their legs they can't assist to step up to get to the seat.

Of cause there is a happy medium between the two and wide opening doors are a big help, that’s when a coupe has an advantage

It might be good for you but older people prefer getting sideways into something higher up. The knees and the back go as you get older. It's a struggle to get down low and then you can't get up again.

To all the young hale and hearties on this forum who simply don't understand, karma will come your way eventually.

tranquilized · 24-05-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

To all the young hale and hearties on this forum who simply don't understand, karma will come your way eventually.

I fear you may be right. I'll have to keep the fitness up, hopefully it'll at the least prevent me from having to buy a damn SUV when I grow older.

Express · 24-05-2015, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

It might be good for you but older people prefer getting sideways into something higher up. The knees and the back go as you get older. It's a struggle to get down low and then you can't get up again.

To all the young hale and hearties on this forum who simply don't understand, karma will come your way eventually.

I understand what you’re saying but not all cases are as you might think you know.

My father-in-law can’t get into any high vehicle and hasn’t been able too for a few years.

I know as we practiced it with my brother-in-law’s SUV and have on a number of occasions had problems when others have turned up to take him out for the day in their SUV’s.

He doesn’t have the strength to lift with his legs to step up in and he doesn’t have the strength to put his weight back down on them to get out without them collapsing.

When he drops down he becomes a dead weight and very difficult to hold onto without dropping him. He's about 85kg.

Therefore the best thing for him is whatever makes it easier for his carers and that is helping to guide him down in a seat and then helping lift him by the arms to get him out.

A high SUV would mean no freedom.

A small bus with a sliding ramp works best like nursing homes use but to purchase something like that as a family runabout, well that’s not really viable.

We are his primary carer so as not to put him in a nursing home where he would lose his freedom, his ability to visit friends and quality of life, if karma wants us to suffer for that then so be it.

new2ford · 25-05-2015, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

I understand what you’re saying but not all cases are as you might think you know.

Yes, obviously each person has their own different circumstances requiring different vehicles.

Some are almost too high. I got into a Ranger over the weekend and I found it was too high to be comfortable for me and I'm a tall bloke! The typical crossover ground clearance of about 17 to 21 cm works best for me.

**Elks** · 25-05-2015, 09:16 AM

I tend to agree. You can be to high.

Our Grand Cherokee is an uncomfortable step up and in. It's only a little bit taller than the Territory we had, but whereas the terry was an easy step up, the GC is not.

I'm guessing the Ranger / Everest will be high as well.

Harrison · 25-05-2015, 10:06 AM

Where are they ???

Every time I'm backing out of a carpark there's one right next to me, blocking my view of the oncoming traffic.

jmack · 25-05-2015, 10:25 AM

i use to be on the anti 4x4/suv gang .but with having to plan a path for your travel to avoid speed humps,steep driveways,.rough roads the fun of driving starts to quickly disappear .even our highways are goat tracks in places.and you dont have to have the all familair argument with the misses having put another mark on the front.still got my lowered cars but driving the explorer is alot easier

Vesper Martini · 25-05-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark^^

The new Land Rover Discovery Sport have now been released for sale in Australia. Come in under $70, can be 5 +2 = 7 seats and look good

IMO They will sell really well. It will be a small third row though

LoudPipes · 25-05-2015, 12:50 PM

I have to agree with Express.

I’m closer to 80 than 70 and even though I don’t have the mobility problems Express had outlined I know people who do and even for myself I find it’s hard to climb in and out of high vehicles.

For my wife it’s even harder than for me and I also find it’s easier to help her in and out of lower cars than higher ones.

If you look around you’ll see the bulk of elderly drivers are in small sedans and not SUV’s and there is a reason for that.

A part from someone has to buy Toyota Corollas, for old knees and weak legs lower cars are the lesser of two evils.

A cane can be used to help lift you from a lower seat where they are not so effective when used to lower yourself down from a height.

Watch an elderly person climb a set of stairs then watch the problem they have when they have to come back down, the weight on the leg when stepping down can make stairs impossible.

If you’re middle aged with back problems but still have leg strength then yes a higher vehicle would probably be the better option.

adumb · 25-05-2015, 01:09 PM

My Mrs wanted a VW and with kids on the horizon it was a choice between a Golf wagon and a Tiguan. While the golf wagon had more cargo space it was much lower and I didn't like the seating position. The added bonus it with the height with the Tiguan it will be easier to get kids in and out of the back seat and to load the pram / groceries into the boot. It also has a much roomier feeling cabin (higher roof I suppose) Also like everyone has said the higher driving position helps as there are so many 4WD/SUVs on the road now (if you can't beat them, join them!!). We optioned the R-Line pack and i think its a very good handling car, for what it is, it was never going to handle like a F6 or GT. Its zippy around town, pretty good on fuel and it suits us.
Edit: we found with grandparents that my old car (AU on king lows) and current car (stock height) were very difficult to get into. Not just the height but the angle of the A pillars do to the roof line. The Suzuki swift we had before the VW was much easier due to the a pillars and that the seating position was higher (similar to a SUV)

SumoDog68 · 25-05-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

I have to agree with Express.

I’m closer to 80 than 70 and even though I don’t have the mobility problems Express had outlined I know people who do and even for myself I find it’s hard to climb in and out of high vehicles.

For my wife it’s even harder than for me and I also find it’s easier to help her in and out of lower cars than higher ones.

If you look around you’ll see the bulk of elderly drivers are in small sedans and not SUV’s and there is a reason for that.

A part from someone has to buy Toyota Corollas, for old knees and weak legs lower cars are the lesser of two evils.

A cane can be used to help lift you from a lower seat where they are not so effective when used to lower yourself down from a height.

Watch an elderly person climb a set of stairs then watch the problem they have when they have to come back down, the weight on the leg when stepping down can make stairs impossible.

If you’re middle aged with back problems but still have leg strength then yes a higher vehicle would probably be the better option.

Even if not in the same age group I can sympathise - due to sports injury.
I find that low or very high hip seat height can be difficult - smoothest and easiest is if hip height of the person is matched to the seat height in which case you don't have to climb or lower yourself . There is a range of cars now with very different seat heights to choose from - I find that small SUV cars like Rav , CRV or Forester are pretty much spot on but it does depend on persons height and shape of the cabin, roof height , A pillar angle etc.
Takes a bit of effort to find a well fitting one :-)
Not many car companies supply data on seat height from ground but I did find this link with limited data as measured .
http://www.car-seat-data.co.uk/carsurvey-intro.htm
http://www.car-seat-data.co.uk/xlcardata.htm

Vesper Martini · 25-05-2015, 03:11 PM

Watching My Tall 80 year old father get in and out of his BA Fairmont is excruciating. and he needs the door wide open to have any chance.
He can get in/out of my Territory with no Probs, but you can see with the Prado there's a potential accident waiting to happen. Prado also has a lot less leg room..

I agree with Sumo match the seat to the hip height

Sabantien · 25-05-2015, 03:33 PM

Stil in my 30s But i have back problems at times. When it flared up i found it easier to step or slide into my pathfinder. The falcon took me 15min to get in. The raised patrol i borrowed a while back i would have had trouble with.

That said, at thiS point it's not what I am looking for in a car. Pretty sure if I had enough kids to require a 7 seater I'd want the most dangerous car available so maybe I could be put out of my misery. But hey. I hear some people like kids.

tranquilized · 25-05-2015, 06:38 PM

AU - BF series Falcons are notoriously difficult to get in and out of for the mobility-challenged, more to do with the shape of the doors more than the height of the seat.

Itsme · 25-05-2015, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

I have to agree with Express.

I’m closer to 80 than 70 and even though I don’t have the mobility problems Express had outlined I know people who do and even for myself I find it’s hard to climb in and out of high vehicles.

For my wife it’s even harder than for me and I also find it’s easier to help her in and out of lower cars than higher ones.

If you look around you’ll see the bulk of elderly drivers are in small sedans and not SUV’s and there is a reason for that.

A part from someone has to buy Toyota Corollas, for old knees and weak legs lower cars are the lesser of two evils.

A cane can be used to help lift you from a lower seat where they are not so effective when used to lower yourself down from a height.

Watch an elderly person climb a set of stairs then watch the problem they have when they have to come back down, the weight on the leg when stepping down can make stairs impossible.

If you’re middle aged with back problems but still have leg strength then yes a higher vehicle would probably be the better option.

Agree what you say here but if the SUV's have side steps this helps to alleviate the problem.

new2ford · 25-05-2015, 08:39 PM

As an ageing heap of human wreckage myself I feel I have some authority to speak in this matter!

When your knees and hips are gone, getting in an out of a low car is terrible. The only reason I put up with it in the BMW is that when I'm finally down in the cockpit, man do I enjoy driving it!

Otherwise, a sideways slide straight into the seat is the easiest. That's about buttock height or 2/3 of the way up your thigh.

Suicide doors would be great too so you don't have to bend your knee too much! And if your right knee has gone you need left hand drive and if its your left knee right hand drive. If both knees have gone you need a Mini Moke.

LoudPipes · 26-05-2015, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trublu

Agree what you say here but if the SUV's have side steps this helps to alleviate the problem.

I guess there are so many different things happening with the human body that what works for one can just as easily have a negative impact for someone else.

The side steps may work but if you are like my wife, steps or no steps there isn’t enough strength in the legs to allow her to lift her weight.

That lack of strength then had a bigger affect when she has to step down as the load from her weight buckles her knees.

She currently walks with a stick.

Her legs fatigue when stepping up or down or when she sits or rises from a chair.

I should add that she recently had a mild stroke and had been inactive for some time because of it and is now starting to get around again and she is currently being evaluated by the Heart Foundation for an exercise program that we hope will increase her core strength.

Without core strength she has no leg strength, without leg strength she has no balance.

Without balance she cannot step up or down on her own without falling.

Balance doesn’t just come from the inner ear as I always thought, the Heart Foundation has shown us how it comes from leg, knee and ankle muscle strength.

They are working to correct this problem.

It’s much easier for me to help get her in and out of a lower car than a higher one.

And as SumoDog68 has said, the ideal would be a vehicle with seats at hip height or I would think, just under hip height.

For myself, climbing up and down in and out of a high vehicle puts a strain on my knees, getting in and out of a low vehicle puts a strain on my upper legs.

It’s a no win situation either way.

SUV’s with ramps and seats the swivel would help though the real secret is not to get old.

All the youngsters have something to look forward to.