Vfacts January 2011

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Maybe these sales will force R and D to do bring forward some very innovative strategies to rescue it like BA (but then we don't have a passionate CEO anymore..)
i.e. here's a crazy idea. Since the Falcon is getting prepared to accomodate Ecoboost, it would be easy to bring in an NA 2.0 model to reduce entry level prices, but they never seem to want to pursue new market sectors, only abandon them. Maybe nobody high up in Ford wants to save it...

A naturally aspirated petrol 2 litre (100kw & 140Nm) in a 1700kg RWD car?

You are obviously lot old enough to remember the 4 cyl Commodore & Torana or the 3.2 litre EA or the 4 cylinder Cortina........

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yep, but they could do something about it....

No FPV V8s for nearly 5 months last year put them behind to... Now they are saying no F6's to be built before July this year??

Do they even care? Doesn't feel like it. Sounds to me like they need to put a broom through Ford australia, the quickest way to fail as an automaker is not to have an sucessor to your current product, e.g. LPG / XR8. Do that to fleet customers etc and they walk away. Every month they are losing 500 - 750 LPG sales possibly to Holden Commodore LPG and or Toyota with the Hybrid Camry, many of those fleet companies that move now will not come back, you start running 1 - 2 Hybrid Camrys and evetually the entire fleet becomes Toyota based, especially with things like fixed price servicing, fuel economy and projected resale values....

Don't forget we have no wagon anymore either that use to equate to around 500 - 750 units a month too, they have finally dried up... So the coming 6 months will probably be down 40 - 50 % for Falcon on last years sales based on LPG / Wagon / XR8 figures, same goes for utes!! Looks like we better get use to it, Holdens not much better but they still have a full line up and a 7 - 10 year plan atleast. I would still rather a Commodore SS / Calais over a european / japanese car...

Pretty much. I do have to wonder what has been going on at FoA over the past 2-3 years - did the T6 project consume absolutely every resource at the expense of others?? And what happened to Ford Australia's Strategic Plan that Bill Osborne mentioned during his reign??

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Pretty much. I do have to wonder what has been going on at FoA over the past 2-3 years - did the T6 project consume absolutely every resource at the expense of others?? And what happened to Ford Australia's Strategic Plan that Bill Osborne mentioned during his reign??

Ecoboost 6 is what stuffed them up... If they had not put resources into that and had continued with the 6 cylinder program as per its original schedule then they wouldnt be in the position they are now, or atleast thats how I see it.

Not to mention Territory Diesel which they canned at one point..

No clear direction or idea, but thats what happens when you get a new CEO every 12 months..

Dash GT = Ford CEO for the win!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Ecoboost 6 is what stuffed them up... If they had not put resources into that and had continued with the 6 cylinder program as per its original schedule then they wouldnt be in the position they are now, or atleast thats how I see it.

I'd agree. They should slowly get back to decent numbers...especially when LPG is back.

I'm more curious to see how the new terri is gonna go....that is if its released as a full line up and not what's happened to the Falcon.

[MrZ]

The Falcon is definitely history. Why do you think they cancelled the plan to build Focus here? Because the plant could only sustain itself by building both Falcon and Focus, so if the Falcon is dropped, then the investment on Focus would be wasted.

There are possibly good reasons for Falcon's low result: 1) VE2 Commodore diverting interest away from it (and being seen as better value), 2) New FG facelift/Turbo I4 Falcon being just around corner, nobody wanting to invest in the "old" model, and 3) Discontinuation of wagon.

Ford built plenty of wagons to last almost the entire of 2010, so we are only now starting to see the drop in sales. I believe there are still alot of wagons available, so it might take even longer to see the full extent of the impact.

[jpd80]

Gents, a bit of perspective on sales,
January 2011 Vs (January 2010)

Falcon - 1157 (2318) lack of LPG and no station wagon are really hurting sales)
Ute - 479 (479) same as last year
Territory - 673 (672) 1 solitary sale more than last year
Fiesta - 1,127 (962) improving
Focus - 1,057 (840) improving
Mondeo -.........(438)
Escape -..........(190)
Ranger 4x2 -......(326)
Ranger 4x4 -......(395)


I don't have figures for Mondeo, Escape Ranger 4x2 or ranger 4x4
If someone has these figures would you please update my
figures so we can see what is happening across the models.

Many thanks in advance.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Davez621

The Falcon is definitely history. Why do you think they cancelled the plan to build Focus here? Because the plant could only sustain itself by building both Falcon and Focus, so if the Falcon is dropped, then the investment on Focus would be wasted.

You work in the finance department of Ford Oz do you?

[jpd80]

Gorman's plan to make Focus here was based around justifying local production for Broadmeadows
by gaining as much government money as possible for producing export models in our region.
The presumption was to sell Focus at near break even to fill the factory order books and to
partner Falcon with Mustang power trains and electrical systems achieving two goals:
1) Viability of Broadmeadows through sufficient volume and a Falcon partnered with Mustang.
2) Money in from Aussie Federal governemnt to pay for infrastructure and engine sales for Ford NA.
3) Falcon then becomes more integrated into One Ford without losing the whole car.
4) Ford kept the appearance of win-win to Aussie public and Ford head off ice.

Buying Ford NA engines and transmissions at a premium there by making
profit disappear from FoA and appear on Ford NA books as engine sales....

Burela saw right through this plan and knew the Government did too, they
were never going to give Ford sufficient funding to do this and enable the
export of jobs and profit transfer to Ford NA....

It was a great idea and may have worked but Mulally insisted that every vehicle must
make a profit and to do that it was only logical that vehicles like Fiesta and Focus be
built in Thailand where labor and parts are much cheaper to source..

This left Burela in a conundrum, he had to make Falcon and I-6 work and had to make Geelong
and Broadmeadows plants more efficient by reducing work force and making castings plant
pay for itself through an external contract for brake component castings. A lot was achieved
to reduce the cash bleed and the Ford Australia you see today is very different to 2008.

( sorry guys, rotten internet connection)

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not having any LPG Falcons to sell is a massive F up. Might still be 5 months away.

If possible, can you say what the current delay is caused by?

[The Snout]

Get rid of the Falcon sedan and build a Falcon Sportswagon only. Not just that easy I know.

Ford seems to always be living life in the future. It always seems like the new model or engine that will have an impact is permanently "12-18 months away..". I think Ford Aus management is a joke.

Ford is going to slip from #3 to #4 to #7 to #10 car seller in this country and we'll still be hearing how it's "supply problems" or "the new solar powered model is only 36 months away, that'll help sales..".

1100 sales for Falcon ? I don't want to hear marketing telling us it was a ok month, I want to hear the main boss take the mic and say how disappointing and unacceptable that is and how Ford are going to immediately take steps with reconnecting with customers new and old.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Gorman's plan to make Focus here was based around justifying local production for Broadmeadows
by gaining as much government money as possible for producing export models in our region.
The presumption was to sell Focus at near break even to fill the factory order books and to
partner Falcon with Mustang power trains and electrical systems achieving two goals:
1) Viability of Broadmeadows through sufficient volume and a Falcon partnered with Mustang.
2) Money in from Aussie Federal governemnt to pay for infrastructure and engine sales for Ford NA.
3) Falcon then becomes more integrated into One Ford without losing the whole car.
4) Ford kept the appearance of win-win to Aussie public and Ford head off ice.

Buying Ford NA engines and transmissions at a premium there by making
profit disappear from FoA and appear on Ford NA books as engine sales....

Burela saw right through this plan and knew the Government did too, they
were never going to give Ford sufficient funding to do this and enable the
export of jobs and profit transfer to Ford NA....

It was a great idea and may have worked but Mulally insisted that every vehicle must
make a profit and to do that it was only logical that vehicles like Fiesta and Focus be
built in Thailand where labor and parts are much cheaper to source..

This left Burela in a conundrum, he had to make Falcon and I-6 work and had to make Geelong
and Broadmeadows plants more efficient by reducing work force and making castings plant
pay for itself through an external contract for brake component castings. A lot was achieved
to reduce the cash bleed and the Ford Australia you see today is very different to 2008.

( sorry guys, rotten internet connection)

Aside from the profit bleeding hypothesis, I think Mr Gorman is unjustly criticised on this forum when he no doubt made his best guess and a judgement call based on the information he had at the time to keep the Falcon alive and the plant humming.

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Seems that way.

Ecoboost should be the FG2 XT... that way your not eating into 6 cylinder production on XR6 etc.

Really the ecoboost is only going to be for budget fleet hacks anyways, maybe an XT / G6E model only.

The new Gas system should be available across the FG2 range tho.

So I reckon they should do the following

XT - Petrol / Gas / 4 cylinder
- Colour Screen
- Dual Zone
- Side Airbags
- Seatbelt Airbags
- Leather Wrap steering wheel
- 17 inch wheels (16 inch option refund $500)
- Heavy duty suspension option
- Foglights

RRP $34,490 plus on roads / options for 4 pot, add a grand for petrol and $2500 for Gas.

XR - Petrol / GAS
- Colour Screen
- 18's Standard
- Dual Zone Standard
- Side Airbags
- Seatbelt Airbags
- Indicators in the mirrors
- Reverse Camera

RRP $40,490 plus on roads / options.

XR6 T / XR8 (above plus)
- 19 Inch wheels (18 option less $500)
- LED Lighting
- Keyless Start
- Dual Exhaust (same as V8s).
- Luxury pack (leather / satnav) $2000
- Silver Brembo 4 pot option - $2200
- Reverse Sensors standard

RRP $48,990 plus onroads / options.

G6E - Petrol / GAS
- 18 Inch wheel min
- 19 / 20 Inch wheel option $1000 - $2000
- Touch Screen with Satnav
- LED rear lighting / Led mirror indicators
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- Keyless start (button)

RRP $47,990 plus on roads / options.

G6ET - Petrol (the above plus)
- Xenon front lights
- Front parking sensors
- Lane departure camera
- 19 inch wheel standard
- Alloy spare standard
- Dual Exhaust (same as v8s)
- Silver Brembo 4 pot option - $2200

RRP $53,990 plus on roads / options.

They need to be more realistic with pricing instead of discounting like they do... Since when have they ever sold an XT for 42 kay :S

100% agree with everything you state there...
Just over 1000 sold.... i think i just felt my heart break slightly :/
FORD pull your finger out of there and start putting a effort in

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Aside from the profit bleeding hypothesis, I think Mr Gorman is unjustly criticised on this forum when he no doubt made his best guess and a judgement call based on the information he had at the time to keep the Falcon alive and the plant humming.

My post was not a swipe at Tom Gorman.
At the time, the government was "encouraging" Ford and other manufacturers to become exporters
and after years of unsuccessful attempts seeking Falcon and Fairlane exports to the Middle east,
Ford had a real shot at getting a small car produced locally in Australia and some regional exports.
The plan was daring and involved a lot of give and take negotiations and probably would have worked,
we'll never know because Ford's changed policy on profitability forced Ford Australia to change too.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yes but when your buying a second hand FG, its shocking resale value improves the value equation.

But if you bought brand new at $40k, would it still be relevant? Or would have other cars come into the equation. Serious question.

i'm a blue blood. i've never denied it. for me, ford have the product i need, whether it be smaller car for the wife (she has a focus) or a large car for me (falcon).

i travel interstate every year with my wife and 2 kids. not many other cars do it as comfortably as the falcon can.

[HUNTER8]

[QUOTE=SVR73]yeah thats all well and good in theory but if we all run out and buy new cars every few years, how boring would that be. just like a certain club I know who push their members and prospective ones into buying new FPV's so they can all look perfect all the time and show just how good they (think) they aretheir forgetting the heritage

ROFLMAO....... that'd be us your talking about Matt. Sure we put everyone that has a BA/BF in a headlock and march them down to the local Ford dealer and get them to fork out for a new car. ..........
Lesson in life ....... sometimes it doesn't pay to beleive everything your told.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by SVR73

why dont ford build something people want

this phrase gets bandied about a lot too. what exactly does it mean??

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

this phrase gets bandied about a lot too. what exactly does it mean??

Well a Toyota by the look of the sales.

[Resurrection]

The fat lady is beginning to clear her throat.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Well a Toyota by the look of the sales.

something plain and boring?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

something plain and boring?

Well they don't make a car that you can make a connection with. But whitegoods on wheels seems to work well.

[jpd80]

90% of Australian buyers purchase something other than a Ford, it's a big market out there.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

this phrase gets bandied about a lot too. what exactly does it mean??

Well going by what I read here they need to make a second hand supercharged 600kw LPG V8 manual wagon that sells for $5,000 and is available on 48 months interest free.......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well going by what I read here they need to make a second hand supercharged 600kw LPG V8 manual wagon that sells for $5,000 and is available on 48 months interest free.......

They'd still get the colours wrong and that price is a little steep for the intended buyers...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well going by what I read here they need to make a second hand supercharged 600kw LPG V8 manual wagon that sells for $5,000 and is available on 48 months interest free.......

yes, you do get that feeling. the biggest enemy of FoA is AFF, a supposed ford forum for ford fans. who'd have thought?

to me, its not about falcon, its about the large car market. its basically a 3 horse race, and given aussies affiliation with the holden brand, i doubt falcon will ever bridge the gap to commodore, but it is still ahead of aurion.

like i said earlier, the large car segment is now only filled with buyers who need or want a large car.

i'm not sure why people get upset when it gets outsold by suv's and small cars. those people aren't shopping for a falcon. they are shopping for small cars though, and if you look at the figures you'll notice fiesta and focus both sold very well.

FoA just need to realise the shift away from larger cars (not saying there isn't a market, just a smaller one), and make the falcon sustainable at 1500 - 2000 units a month. as long as the cars make money, where they are positioned on the monthly sales chart is irrelevent.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

If possible, can you say what the current delay is caused by?

Late start on the project due to wasted time on V6, and also design and integration was more time consuming than they planned is my best guess.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by prydey

this phrase gets bandied about a lot too. what exactly does it mean??

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by flappist

You can help though........if you are not driving a new Falcon then I am sure there are a number of dealers who would just love to remedy that....

Your entire post was nothing short of fantastic, and absolutely correct in my opinion. But the above line is the clincher. Well said.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

to me, its not about falcon, its about the large car market. its basically a 3 horse race, and given aussies affiliation with the holden brand, i doubt falcon will ever bridge the gap to commodore, but it is still ahead of aurion.

I hate when people write this comment.. It has NOTHING to do with Aussies affiliation with the Holden Brand. Both Ford & Falcon has spent many years of our history as dominate market leaders. The reasons they are still not in this positions has nothing to do with Aussies affiliation with Holden. Keeping your comment in mind, how do you explain Toyota’s dominate market share leadership them?

[snappy]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I hate when people write this comment.. It has NOTHING to do with Aussies affiliation with the Holden Brand. Both Ford & Falcon has spent many years of our history as dominate market leaders. The reasons they are still not in this positions has nothing to do with Aussies affiliation with Holden. Keeping your comment in mind, how do you explain Toyota’s dominate market share leadership them?

Toyota's leadership is pretty simple its reliability (or perceived) .
Especially when most sales in this country are due to fleet sales . A breakdown costs huge amounts of money,productivity,time and stress .

No one has time for there vehicle to breakdown . Just last week my work ute broke down . I sat in it for two hours waiting for the tow truck . Towie charged me $256 dollars to tow it to my mechanic . Then couldn't go to work the next day had no ute and the mechanic was unable to get the part needed so it then resulted in another day off . Eventually it was done i could go back to work .
So my costs was :
$256 Towie
$1100 for Mechanic
$1000 for 2.5 days off work and ****ed of customers i had to ring to reschedule when i could do there jobs . Result $2500 and some stress .
Even a simple part failure combined with the stress of life/work is enough to make you see red and that anger is directed to that badge on that car . Resulting in i will never buy one of those again .

[snappy]

Originally Posted by prydey

this phrase gets bandied about a lot too. what exactly does it mean??

Well for me I need a work/social ute .
Criteria =
reliable/workhorse
Good looking outside/inside
comfortable
Makes me smile .

Ford don't have a vechilce that ticks all those boxes xr v8/i6t falcon comes close but fails in the most important reliable/workhorse . Current ranger fails in bottom 3 .
Maybe the New ranger will fit the bill but im really caught up on the no v8 option . Which unfortunately will probly result in me not buying one .
Thats what i mean build somthing i want .