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08-06-2023, 05:34 AM | #91 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Don't want to go into the why's and where fores but if it ever goes to criminal trial, that the politician/politicians that sent these boys there, they are standing in the dock beside him, they are part of the machine that created and control the SAS, they know full well why these troops exist and what they are capable of. They (SAS) are the big stick/junk yard dog that gets let off the leash, as with a dangerous dog the owner should always get held to account as well.
Politicians are complicit in this, maybe next time if they can be held liable they might think twice before sending troops to places at the beck and call of others. I'm picking as we speak there will be Australian SAS running around the Ukraine just history repeating its self. Might not be official and probably on secondment to British SAS but they will be there. |
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08-06-2023, 05:59 AM | #92 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Please show me in the Judges summation where the Judge said he was guilty (beyond any reasonable doubt - a pre-requisite in Australia) of war crimes
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08-06-2023, 06:01 AM | #93 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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08-06-2023, 09:05 AM | #94 | ||||
WT GT
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Quote:
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Who said anything about criminal convictions? |
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08-06-2023, 04:04 PM | #95 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Zilo, back-reading is your friend, or maybe you could just read where I quoted, and I quote "where the JUDGE said he was guilty"
Perhaps you could fight your own battles, you are embarrassing yourself here
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08-06-2023, 07:18 PM | #96 | |||
WT GT
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Papers chase Roberts-Smith for $10m
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09-06-2023, 10:29 AM | #97 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,518
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Thinks don't look good https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...an/ar-AA1chBfI
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regards Blue |
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09-06-2023, 11:56 AM | #99 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Taromeo
Posts: 10,587
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Defence forces are sent (rightly or wrongly) into battle to protect our country and others. Those people, regardless of what defence section they are in, are expected to do a thankless job that very few members here could even begin to understand.
When they are finished doing that job and they return home they are expected to assimilate back into society with very little to no help. They are basically thrown out and left to fend for themselves. When they are in a battle of any kind they do what they have to do to defeat the enemy including gathering information about them. They are living a life that 99% of us could never understand and yet we dare to judge them by our standards. It is so wrong. I don't know how many ex or current servicemen are members on here (except for Cav) but I would like to thank them for what they have done for us. I will never try to judge their service and what happens by my non-war standards. |
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09-06-2023, 12:09 PM | #100 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 52
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Mate, it doesn't matter who has or hasn't been to war etc. War crimes are well defined and our soldiers should be held to account.
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09-06-2023, 02:59 PM | #101 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,075
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The whole 'they're defending our country' line might work when you're talking WW2, when it's actually the case. Not so much when we're basically playing lapdog to the US and the conflict makes no difference to us whatsoever.
I agree that rules wouldnt hold much sway with me either if I was protecting myself. But it doesnt appear that was the case here. Just thugs being thugs. |
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09-06-2023, 05:03 PM | #102 | |||
WT GT
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'Challenging': International law professor details difficulties of prosecuting disgraced soldier Ben Roberts-Smith for war crimes
Quote:
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia...1f13202ee47437 |
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09-06-2023, 07:58 PM | #103 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Goulburn NSW
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Hi Guys,
ive never been in the Army or for that matter been to War. Guys like BRS who was in the Special Forces was trained to kill thats the name of the game when you go to war. I said to my wife and i am not sticking up for the bloke " it was War and who are we to say what went on because we werent there". Join the Australian Army get trained go overseas and fight for your country return home but if something goes wrong we dont want to know about it your on your own. |
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09-06-2023, 08:57 PM | #104 | |||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,188
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Quote:
"Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise"
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09-06-2023, 11:06 PM | #105 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Quote:
Another country invading Australia - killing my family- I probably would go beast mode and fu#k Geneva convention. But as a professional soldier going into a hot zone overseas on a political jaunt- no excuse to blow away unarmed civilians. Cowardice.
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09-06-2023, 11:45 PM | #106 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The Taliban are well known for upholding the Geneva conventions. Oh wait they dont.. They hide behind women and children.
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10-06-2023, 04:31 AM | #107 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
The people who were there when the ALLEDGED war crimes took place have a right to comment, no-one else
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10-06-2023, 05:28 AM | #108 | ||
HSV - I just ate one!
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"Civilians"
Oh my...... the naivety.....
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10-06-2023, 05:28 AM | #109 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,518
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Quote:
He also once commented to me that the ADF played a psychological brainwashing game of trying to convince soldiers like him that all the Japanese they were fighting were less than human so they would shoot to kill (noting the theories that abound about most soldiers aiming to miss e.g https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...-their-targets ). He found that when he got to Wide Bay later on in the war that many of the Japanese left to fight a guerilla war there were very young and inexperienced, relatively untrained relatively poorly armed and what he described as "just bits of kids" and when captured had similar views as to the Aussies as why they were there - doing their duty as expected by their country and fighting for what they thought, however wrongly, was right and had also similarly been brainwashed into expecting the Aussies to be some sort of foreign inhuman monsters. To what extent this sort of brainwashing still goes on and influenced BRS view of the Afghans I don't know but I have my suspicions and perhaps that may explain some of what happened. In any event my father certainly earned the right to a view and he also strongly believed in the right for everyone to have and express their individual views and often said so. He also believed that the the blame for all wars and all the resultant deaths ultimately only lay at the feet of the politicians and dictators and others with selfish ambitions that initiated these conflicts.
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regards Blue Last edited by aussiblue; 10-06-2023 at 05:42 AM. |
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10-06-2023, 08:39 AM | #110 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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10-06-2023, 09:37 AM | #111 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
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In post #14, I alluded that there was more behind this saga than just the shock / horror of perceived 'un-Australian' military behaviour.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...922b3d07&ei=28 Some agreement of throwing certain ADF members under the bus may have been made to keep in the hierarchy good books ? |
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10-06-2023, 10:33 AM | #112 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Posts: 7,755
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Doesn't surprise me, Angus Campbell isn't a workers friend
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10-06-2023, 11:40 AM | #113 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Quote:
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regards Blue |
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10-06-2023, 02:01 PM | #114 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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Posts: 26,008
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Quote:
Were you?
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10-06-2023, 03:01 PM | #115 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Absolutely not, but I don't believe the bull**** on TV. the inernet or social media, but I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, what about you?
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10-06-2023, 03:03 PM | #116 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
He hasn't been charged, in fact there hasn't even been any mention of it from official sources, but you continue to speculate and add fuel to the bull**** I am not saying he is innocent nor I am sending him to the gallows like some would like to see. I will just wait to see what happens
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10-06-2023, 03:10 PM | #117 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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Innocent until proven guilty, i agree. But forcing ones opinion on everyone isnt something i agree with, or questioning everyone if they have a differing opinion to me either.
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10-06-2023, 03:26 PM | #118 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Where have I forced my opinion on anyone, maybe pulling up people who are speculating, but my opinion from the start has been innocent until proven guilty
If that offends you bad luck
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10-06-2023, 03:37 PM | #119 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
As are others who refer to the judgment by a Federal Court Judge who found on the balance of probabilities that BRS was involved in killing unarmed civilians, after full testing of witnesses (both Australian and Afgans) under rigorous cross examination. This does not, as you point out, equate to guilty of criminal offences, but this Federal Court decision refers to evidence given during that civil trial, which if accepted in a criminal case, may result in a conviction of BRS. There is nothing controversial in this.
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10-06-2023, 03:54 PM | #120 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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You said it all, except he hasn't been charged and faced a criminal court.
He lost a defamation case, full stop, evidence in a CIVIL case that does NOT have meet the same rigours of a criminal case. I am not the only one saying that in this thread, but believe what you want. Hang him from the gallows I dunno how many times I have to say this. The judges opinion in that CIVIL case means **** all in reality, it is just his opinion, full stop Evidence in a criminal case MUST have proven fact, without reasonably doubt, based on probability is NOT a proven fact I honestly don't know why this is so hard to comprehend
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Last edited by Trevor 57; 10-06-2023 at 04:01 PM. |
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