No More Commodore or Astra

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yes it WAS.
From 2020 production of the GM based Astra ceases.
I imagine Opel will move to a PSA based Astra.

Production of the 2020 Opel Astra will move from Gilwice in Poland to
Russelsheim in Germany I believe.

Poland will start building the Opel Movano - aka Renault Master.

[Cashie]

Makes you wonder now GM seems uninterested in supporting the RHD markets around the world, especially after selling Opal, if things might have been different if the Holden factory was still open, surely Australia could very easily have been the worlds GM RHD manufacturing base and built many different models....

[Sprintey]

Bye bye Commodore, some memories, mostly good:

VH 253 auto deciding to steer using the tail overtaking a semi on a sweeping downhill overtaking lane south between Bunbury and Dawesville. It was a beautiful car otherwise, so smooth and nice.

Bro's 202 VC giving each roundabout in the suburb a perfect circle black ring.

VR 3.8 wagon with the timing sensor deciding to go on smoko while car was running, resulting in everything shutting down while on the go. Intermittent fault would never replicate for the dealer. Despite that, took car across Nullarbor and it did well. Fords of same era much better imo.

VY 3.8 Ecotec - beautiful car, very reliable. So smooth and comfortable around town, good highway cruiser. My favourite. I'll be controversial here and say it was a better product than the AUII we had at same time - but we all know the AU is actually the best. Nice interior materials too that have stood the test of time.

VE SS manual when new, pretty impressive cornering and performance.

VE SS wagon, black, Mad Max meets family duties.

VE GTS with launch mode, that was nuts.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

......and that my friends, completes the story on how to kill a successful car company in the least amount of time.


image

Absolutely! There are so many good stories of what not to do in business going on at present, quite a few from the Oz car industry too. They will become great undergrad lecture topics, if they aren't already.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Cav

You could be right but I can't help myself, this popped into my brain.

Remember the Toyota Lexcen?

image

Ahh yes the old Lexan. I know of some buying them because, "They're better than a Holden" WTF were they thinking.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

Production of the 2020 Opel Astra will move from Gilwice in Poland to
Russelsheim in Germany I believe.

Poland will start building the Opel Movano - aka Renault Master.

They are also made @ Vauxhalls plant @ Elsmore in Cheshire,but as you alluded to will move to the German plant.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Ahh yes the old Lexan. I know of some buying them because, "They're better than a Holden" WTF were they thinking.

Yeah,It was the Nissan engine that Did It.. And a Holden Apollo was a better car than a Toyota Camry...

Don't forget the Holden Nova either,, shytz all over a Corolla.......

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Cav

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore?

Modern European styling.

Latest car gadgets.

Doing well in Supercars ( joke boys).

Should Holden have dropped the price?

Was the change of ownership of manufacturer the final knife in its back?

To me it seemed like it was a competitor to the Mondeo in its turbo petrol model. I think the prices were lineball.

image

image

I still think back to 2007 I think it was, I was working for a Toyota dealer in sales. They released the all new Aurion - which they said would be a game changer. At least, that's what they were trying to instill. It had design input from whoever had worked on the BA I think it was. It looked great. Had a 200kw 6 and decent statistics.

But what seemed wrong about it?

...it was FWD.

At the time, all the Toyota spin you got from them was "FWD/RWD it doesn't really matter, the public are going to love this car."

The Australian market is fickle. They want what they want... and unfortunately due to the size of our market, we don't get what we want unfortunately. It's not acceptable for a manufacturer to feel like they can dictate what the market will take or wants - it's not going to work.

I think Holden would have been best to find a RWD somewhere/somehow or just not do it at all - and the end result seems to back this up.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think PSA got Opel back into profit the next year which might say more about GM ownership...

https://www.autonews.com/blogs/opel-...osses-under-gm

Could be, but reading the article they cut 3700 jobs and transferred 2000 to do so. one way to make profit is to get rid of expenditure

also noting the models they have been selling were all GM developed.

and from comments on the article:
The products they’re selling now were paid for by GM. After that, there’s little in the pipeline except PSA products.

In total they’re lose nearly 10,000 employees split evenly between technical and factory workers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Could be, but reading the article they cut 3700 jobs and transferred 2000 to do so. one way to make profit is to get rid of expenditure

also noting the models they have been selling were all GM developed.

and from comments on the article:
The products they’re selling now were paid for by GM. After that, there’s little in the pipeline except PSA products.

In total they’re lose nearly 10,000 employees split evenly between technical and factory workers.

Since selling Opel Vauxhall to PSA, GM has even less reason to be in RHD markets than Ford.
Now that PSA and Fiat Chrysler are merging, GM will want to end ties with PSA so what that
means for Holden is anyone's guess...

The only way GM stays in RHD countries is to partner with someone that can supply RHD models,
it's just not worth it for GM to keep designing low volume RHD models, just give that work to
another manufacturer.

[whales]

Surely Holden don't believe that possible buyers of Commodores will now buy that hideous Acacdia.
Its just another 300 to 600 vehicles a month that Holden wont sell.

Toyota will be rubbing their hands together with the Camry

[ennisfargis]

Originally Posted by Cav

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore

I got to drive a few of these as rentals when interstate.
I found it to be an incredibly annoying car.
Constantly beeping & warning me that I was about to crash.


example - I parked it in front of a wall.
Of course it beeped & told me there was a wall & I was about to die.
Survived my close call.
When i got back in, started it, in Park, it started beeping again to tell me there was a wall, put it in Reverse, still beeping.

So it's not smart enough to figure out that in reverse i would be moving away from the wall.
Technology treating us like idiots.
I don't know if you can turn this crap off, but i came away saying there was no way I would buy one of these.


Company never forked out for a Mustang so I can't compare....

[dunga]

Originally Posted by ennisfargis

I got to drive a few of these as rentals when interstate.
I found it to be an incredibly annoying car.
Constantly beeping & warning me that I was about to crash.


example - I parked it in front of a wall.
Of course it beeped & told me there was a wall & I was about to die.
Survived my close call.
When i got back in, started it, in Park, it started beeping again to tell me there was a wall, put it in Reverse, still beeping.

So it's not smart enough to figure out that in reverse i would be moving away from the wall.
Technology treating us like idiots.
I don't know if you can turn this crap off, but i came away saying there was no way I would buy one of these.


Company never forked out for a Mustang so I can't compare....

It's not the technoldgy it's the idiot's programing it

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Yeah,It was the Nissan engine that Did It.. And a Holden Apollo was a better car than a Toyota Camry...

Don't forget the Holden Nova either,, shytz all over a Corolla.......

There was never a Nissan engine in a Lexcen.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Ahh yes the old Lexan. I know of some buying them because, "They're better than a Holden" WTF were they thinking.

Well technically they we're, entry level Lexcen was a Berlina equivalent, colour coded bars and better features etc.

[jphanna]

over the decades i have had 2 commodores and 3 falcons. each have their good and bad sides to them.

i was a passenger in a rental ZB calais about 6 months ago. my mate hired it and took him up the hills for a 15km quick loop (a grade back roads near my place at Windy point)

i took him first the FG, and then we did the same loop with the ZB.

ZB Calais had more than enough grunt to make the FG (non turbo) feel like a sunbird with the starfire engine.

he is a ford man and owns an FGX but he recons the ZB is plastic, and tacky compare to the VF SV6 he hired a few year ago.

as for FWD.......unless you doing a burnout, i could not pick the difference. Neither could he on a public road.

i would have thought the hatchback gave it more versatility and possibly succeed?

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

There was never a Nissan engine in a Lexcen.

OOps, I stand Corrected..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by dunga

It's not the technoldgy it's the idiot's programing it

Usual deal they probably outsourcing the programming to some Indian bloke for $3/hour whose never driven a car before but is handy with a keyboard.

I'm currently caught up between three separate IT companies who are collaborating on a project, I'm helping as they need my perspective and you can imagine how well this is going with so many fingers in the pie with no experience on how the process works.

Usual accountants doing their trick - save on wages but pay exponentially more on the project.

You think hiring professionals is expensive, wait until you hire amateurs.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I don't think that's correct. I pretty sure that Buick & Opel both got the V6 version, I'm not sure about Vauxhall.

Also the previous Insignia, which was a slightly smaller car had a V6 with a turbo. The two Vectras (the Insignia's predecessor) before that, also had a V6 option.

Dr Terry

Holden vehicle development manager Jeremy Tassone, who revealed that Holden was part of the Insignia B program since its inception more than five years ago, said: “We wanted to make sure the (E2) architecture could take the V6 that Holden wanted.

“Prior to Holden getting involved in this program there was no V6. Europe don’t take a V6 at all, as the 2.0-litre is their premium engine. So, we had to get in there, fight our case, present our data, and (tell Opel that) that it is very important for Australia to have a V6 and all-wheel drive.”

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden vehicle development manager Jeremy Tassone, who revealed that Holden was part of the Insignia B program since its inception more than five years ago, said: “We wanted to make sure the (E2) architecture could take the V6 that Holden wanted.

“Prior to Holden getting involved in this program there was no V6. Europe don’t take a V6 at all, as the 2.0-litre is their premium engine. So, we had to get in there, fight our case, present our data, and (tell Opel that) that it is very important for Australia to have a V6 and all-wheel drive.”

What a sad state of affairs when 2L is your premium engine option

I think that's why Europe has fast rail because the cars aren't worth driving for average Joe

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think PSA got Opel back into profit the next year which might say more about GM ownership...

https://www.autonews.com/blogs/opel-...osses-under-gm

Did PSA actually get it back into profit or was GM doing creative accounting to serve a purpose?

Tim foil hats on from this point forward - Fake News Franco reporting 'alternative facts'

[Cav]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well technically they we're, entry level Lexcen was a Berlina equivalent, colour coded bars and better features etc.

The "Newport" emerged from the recesses of my brain

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Cav

The "Newport" emerged from the recesses of my brain

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Newport started with the VP run as the Calais equivalent, the original VN version was based on Berlina.

[Dr Terry]

This myth about the Lexcen being based on a Berlina is just that a myth.

The VN Lexcen was released as the Lexcen sedan & wagon (Executive equivalent), the Lexcen GL sedan & wagon (Berlina equivalent) & The GLX Lexcen sedan which was a Calais equivalent.

The Lexcen was released a few months before the VN series II upgrade & the base model had stuff like central locking & electric mirrors, which at the time the Executive (Series I) didn't get. Lexcen was only slightly more expensive, but was better value because a Commodore with the options added was slightly dearer again. When the Series II Executive was released they were made virtually the same except for the painted bars. For VP the Executive got these & was a bit cheaper than Lexcen. The $$ amounts weren't much either.

When the VP was released Toyota renamed their cars as the Lexcen CSi, Lexcen VXi & the Newport. It stayed like this until mid-97 when they ceased production.

Dr Terry

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Cav

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore?

It changed segment.

By the end of the VF the Commodore had it's segment all to itself - large RWD (as in - Longitudinal chassis, the crucial difference many seem to overlook) sedan/wagon/ute with v6 or v8 engines.

In comes the ZB and all of a sudden it's competing in a different segment which includes cars like Mazda 6, VW Passat, Toyota Camry, Ford Mondeo, the list goes on. It isn't a very lucrative segment, bar the Camry none of those cars sell very well. The Commodore actually did pretty well to sell as many as it did.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden spent a lot of time and money lobbying for the ZB to have a V6, cause no one else was interested in anything other than the 4 cylinder.

I wonder how much money Holden/GM have just ****ed away on engineering the Insignia to fit that V6 now.

No doubt Holden have probably copped a black eye from HQ for this now too, cause they were against it having a V6 too, they only wanted it to be available as a 4 cylinder, just like it is everywhere else it sells. Only Holden got the V6.

Holden execs probably made a business case of selling X amount of ZB's to justify the investment needed to engineer it for V6. Which has now massively blown up in their face.

There will be serious future product repercussions from this.

And from all reports the V6 was the worst engine available in the ZB. Didn't suit the character of the car. Actually, it's a dog of an engine in any car!


If they had have just made do with the 4cy petrol and diesel engines & skipped all that extra R&D, badged it as Insignia, and worked off realistic sales targets it could have worked out as a half decent product in their lineup. But hey, we're talking about GM here.

[tranquilized]

And another thought - I remember a few years back most people here on Ford Forums agreed on how effective Holden marketing was (or how gullible the sheep buyers were) in that most of their range sold pretty well despite being complete garbage. Think Captiva. The market seemed to love Holden.

Slapping Commodore badges on the Insignia seems to have changed all that. Now the whole brand is on the nose - Colorado doesn't sell very well despite being more or less on par with the competition.

If they had have bought the Insignia in as the Insignia would they have retained some of that brand equity and in turn sold multitudes more of their other more relevant products like the Colorado?

Just a thought...

[Nikked]

I wonder if the initial supply deal was based on higher numbers bringbsold? 400 odd sales a month is still 400 odd sales, plus it was the 2nd best selling product in the line up...almost seems like a loss for them.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Vormund

Well resale values are already in the toilet...lets see how low we can go.

If it's cheap enough, they would be an ok buy for something to get around in.

I just saw a dealer demo 2019 Sportwagon with 9000km going for $24,000. It is probably a manufactured 2018 and registered 2019 but it still is tempting.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by IanC

I just saw a dealer demo 2019 Sportwagon with 9000km going for $24,000. It is probably a manufactured 2018 and registered 2019 but it still is tempting.

So about the same as a 5 year old VF sportwagon with 90,000km is worth