KIA outsells Ford in May

[MercuryT]

The Ranger is OK, Raptor some love but if I wanted a slow truck I'd buy a Mack.

The rest of Ford's range is horrible. Mustang is cheap American crap but looks good no doubt - but will never be a high sales vehicle.

Kia are making great cars the market want.

Sure I'm not interested in any outside the Stinger (just) but credit where its due.

[DFB FGXR6]

Something that seems to be going on un-noticed is how Kia have been increasing their prices, making them less of the good-value budget option they once were.

Picanto was once a $14k proposition, it now starts at $16k.

Rio was a $16k starting point, now $19k.

Cerato was a long term $20-22k starter, now $26k.

Sportage started at $27K, a $29K-$31K option now.

Carnival is $47K proposition, likewise Sorrento.

It's the Rio and Cerato that have made the most noticeable jump. Remember the flaming Ford got for making the Focus a $25k entry point 5 years ago? Mazda, Toyota, Hyundai, VW, Honda and now Kia have followed Ford's lead, and yet Ford still cop flack for "premium" pricing.

I would still personally recommend people consider Kia's, they are decent cars for modest money. I really like what they have done with the Sorento's styling and admire their guts for committing to something like the niche market Stinger.

But I don't see them as a bargain, cheap option anymore.

[zilo]

We can keep dancing around with numbers but Ford, as a passenger car manufacturer is stuffed unless they embrace the future in my opinion.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Something that seems to be going on un-noticed is how Kia have been increasing their prices, making them less of the good-value budget option they once were.

Picanto was once a $14k proposition, it now starts at $16k.

Rio was a $16k starting point, now $19k.

Cerato was a long term $20-22k starter, now $26k.

Sportage started at $27K, a $29K-$31K option now.

Carnival is $47K proposition, likewise Sorrento.

It's the Rio and Cerato that have made the most noticeable jump. Remember the flaming Ford got for making the Focus a $25k entry point 5 years ago? Mazda, Toyota, Hyundai, VW, Honda and now Kia have followed Ford's lead, and yet Ford still cop flack for "premium" pricing.

I would still personally recommend people consider Kia's, they are decent cars for modest money. I really like what they have done with the Sorento's styling and admire their guts for committing to something like the niche market Stinger.

But I don't see them as a bargain, cheap option anymore.

I guess given Ford went upwards its created room to move for Kia, the market just got more expensive to enter.

My mid spec diesel Focus cost me $26K DA in 2011 as a run out model new on the shop floor.

Whats base model SA Focus these days, $32K + ORC?

[XR Martin]

Cars will get cheaper once local manufacturing ends and tarrifs are removed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Cars will get cheaper once local manufacturing ends and tarrifs are removed.

Heh, who ever said that I'm looking forward to seeing them at the Melbourne comedy festival.

No more $35K Falcon so there's $35K Corolla and Focus doing the rounds.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

The Ranger is OK, Raptor some love but if I wanted a slow truck I'd buy a Mack.

The rest of Ford's range is horrible. Mustang is cheap American crap but looks good no doubt - but will never be a high sales vehicle.

Kia are making great cars the market want.

Sure I'm not interested in any outside the Stinger (just) but credit where its due.

None of that is really true. Fords get rated well in all reviews. Really there is no bad car in the range.

And don’t throw the sales numbers argument in, because sales mean nothing in terms of whether a car is good or not.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Cars will get cheaper once local manufacturing ends and tarrifs are removed.

Yes an astute decision because..blah, blah, blah.
And anyway, if it never eventuates it'll be the loyal fans paying the premium for that loyalty.

'Have you paid overs lately' can be the new slogan.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Something that seems to be going on un-noticed is how Kia have been increasing their prices, making them less of the good-value budget option

It's the Rio and Cerato that have made the most noticeable jump. Remember the flaming Ford got for making the Focus a $25k entry point 5 years ago? Mazda, Toyota, Hyundai, VW, Honda and now Kia have followed Ford's lead, and yet Ford still cop flack for "premium" pricing.

I guess the difference is Kia didnt up their pricing of Cerato off the back of a class action, asking a premium for Focus considering its tarnished image is taking the ****.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

"people aren't buying Passenger cars anymore." But if anything, people are buying more! Sure, the shape has changed, but so what, shapes have been changing since the Model-T.

ironically enough the shape has changed back to the model-t thru to 1940s shape. one big square box, vertical rear (often with external spare tyre) 4 doors ,, fairly vertical windscreen, smaller box out the front hiding an engine, with plenty of ground clearance.

The silhouette of your average suv isnt that different to many 1930s early 40s cars

the swoopy ponton or soap bar streamlined wedge, sedan or low slung hatch that started in the 50s and ruled for decades, has fallen away since 2010

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by zilo

We can keep dancing around with numbers but Ford, as a passenger car manufacturer is stuffed unless they embrace the future in my opinion.

Correct.

[MercuryT]

Ford have no car worth buying imo.

Mustang is cheap made American rubbish and now we lost gun Falcons which were awesome it is a very unlikable brand.

No wonder sales are terrible. Selling sh^t is difficult

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Ford have no car worth buying imo.

Mustang is cheap made American rubbish and now we lost gun Falcons which were awesome it is a very unlikable brand.

No wonder sales are terrible. Selling sh^t is difficult

I think thats a bit harsh, many of their offerings are good product, they're either over priced or tarnished by previous experience.
Id own a Ranger, but i wouldnt pay $50-60k for one.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Ford have no car worth buying imo.

Mustang is cheap made American rubbish and now we lost gun Falcons which were awesome it is a very unlikable brand.

No wonder sales are terrible. Selling sh^t is difficult

trolling hard much ey m8

[Yellow_Festiva]

Kia and Hyundai are doing well because they are a global brand.

I think they (as a combined brand lets say) are second only to Toyota for global penetration.

I did look this up once. I'm wondering? How did this happen seeing as the Korean brands are relatively new to the car scene?

Can it be an anti American sentiment? Ford have been building cars since Noah played halfback for the Rabbitos.

In Japan, Korean cars are not at all common. In Korea, Japanese cars are rare as hens teeth. Due to their history (and rivalry) that's understandable.

I'm wondering... are Korean cars at a natural advantage because they never picked a fight with anyone?

We still get the odd racial jibe about German brands being associated with the Nazi's.

I say this because The Koreans are able to do so well as they are a global player. Volume is obviously a factor in their success.

Could it be perceived that no matter how good the Ford brand is that it can't reach the sales numbers of the Koreans due to this underlying resentment?

I'm too young to remember, but back in the hay day of the Aussie car industry were people jeered or called traitors for buying Japanese cars?

As a reference, Wikipedia says that Ford made just under 4.2 million vehicles in 2020 (and that's apparently down on previous years).

Hyundai made 4.85 million - (in 2016), a number that was also apparently down on previous years. I wonder why they didn't update their stats?

Kia made just over 2.8 million cars in 2019 and that was up on previous years.

I don't know the sharing involved between the Koreans but I group them together because they are in each others pockets in terms of manufacturing and sharing of technology / platforms etc.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Ford have no car worth buying imo.


No wonder sales are terrible. Selling sh^t is difficult

And yet, Ford have had the number 2 selling vehicle on the market for several years now. And Mustang has led it's segment since it was introduced 5 years ago. Everest continues to grow and Escape is in demand, sales being hampered by semi-conductor shortages.

Seems like Ford have a few offerings that people feel like are worth buying. Out of the 56 brands on sale in Australia, Ford finished 2020 in 4th position. So out of 56 brands, only 3 others sold more than Ford. Again, clearly Ford are doing something right.

I know it's popular in these threads to slag off Ford, and they do a fair bit wrong, but the they do seem to be selling stuff that people want.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

ironically enough the shape has changed back to the model-t thru to 1940s shape. one big square box, vertical rear (often with external spare tyre) 4 doors ,, fairly vertical windscreen, smaller box out the front hiding an engine, with plenty of ground clearance.

The silhouette of your average suv isnt that different to many 1930s early 40s cars

the swoopy ponton or soap bar streamlined wedge, sedan or low slung hatch that started in the 50s and ruled for decades, has fallen away since 2010

That's quite astute.

Even seeing footage of FB/EK wagons taking on sand tracks at the beach got me thinking that small/medium SUVs have been here before

Yellow Festiva, interesting points as well. Ford could be on the nose in Oz not so much with anti-American sentiment, but on how they managed themselves here. Some of the decisions have been appalling. There's also the perception for many Aussies that any domestic manufacturers had a line into their wallets via subsidies, creating resentment.

In the US Ford's trucks dominate, the Focus in Europe does/did very well so there's that too. In Asia - do foreign brands get let in? In China I think they do? Japan? In Thailand I'd say Ranger sells pretty well and has the patriotic thing as it's built there.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

And yet, Ford have had the number 2 selling vehicle on the market for several years now. And Mustang has led it's segment since it was introduced 5 years ago. Everest continues to grow and Escape is in demand, sales being hampered by semi-conductor shortages.

Seems like Ford have a few offerings that people feel like are worth buying. Out of the 56 brands on sale in Australia, Ford finished 2020 in 4th position. So out of 56 brands, only 3 others sold more than Ford. Again, clearly Ford are doing something right.

I know it's popular in these threads to slag off Ford, and they do a fair bit wrong, but the they do seem to be selling stuff that people want.

On paper Ford have a great catalogue, could do with a little more depth but it isn't bad at all. The cars always rate really well.

For me personally while I do like the Escape, at the time of buying my SUV it was the previous gen Escape and it just didn't sit well with me over the CX5 (new one though is another story). Adding to that the TCO of the Ford is above the equivalent Mazda when I did the sums.

May be in a year or two I'd be in the market for a Mustang or ST Focus.

[bb_zetec]

Nissan has just announced they are getting out of the sedan market, and we all know Ford has done that too in the US and their other markets.

The concern we have for Ford is that if dual cab utes become on the nose with aussies here then they will have trouble, as really the Ranger is their volume seller.

Perhaps the new Bronco, EV's and the promised smaller style ute similar to the old courier series may help their offerings stay releveant.

Yes their Everest and Puma etc...are good cars too but i dont see them in volume.

Toyota had trouble selling their Fortuner SUV off the Hilux platform...i guess those sales went to Prado.

Aussies can change what they want overnight...so as long as the old saying goes "dont keep your eggs in one basket" rings true for Ford they should be OK.

Im sure they are making money in Australia, that and the R&D for the Ranger is done locally here which says something.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

Nissan has just announced they are getting out of the sedan market, and we all know Ford has done that too in the US and their other markets.



The concern we have for Ford is that if dual cab utes become on the nose with aussies here then they will have trouble, as really the Ranger is their volume seller.

If that's the case then Korean position will be even better.

Korea is full of sedans. Heaps of full sized high HP sedans on offer.

They will just adapt future designs for easier RHD conversion and fill gaps in the market like they are already doing.

The US just got a new Korean sedan, looks full sized. Can't recall the model but I think its a Hyundai.

Its one of those YouTube model release videos.

And it looks amazing.

Sedans and small hatchbacks will be available long into the future provided the Koreans continue making them.


Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

Nissan has just announced they are getting out of the sedan market, and we all know Ford has done that too in the US and their other markets.

The concern we have for Ford is that if dual cab utes become on the nose with aussies here then they will have trouble, as really the Ranger is their volume seller.

Perhaps the new Bronco, EV's and the promised smaller style ute similar to the old courier series may help their offerings stay releveant.

Yes their Everest and Puma etc...are good cars too but i dont see them in volume.

Toyota had trouble selling their Fortuner SUV off the Hilux platform...i guess those sales went to Prado.

Aussies can change what they want overnight...so as long as the old saying goes "dont keep your eggs in one basket" rings true for Ford they should be OK.

Im sure they are making money in Australia, that and the R&D for the Ranger is done locally here which says something.

Utes/commercial vehicles are pretty well insulated though. Cause they are tool of trade vehicles, used by tradesmen and fleets and by couriers etc. The market won't suddenly just die. There will always be demand there.

And even if the demand drops for recreational buyers, it doesn't matter. Ford don't have a factory here they need to keep running. The Thai plant supplies the whole asian region.

[DTFRMONT]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

.

In Japan, Korean cars are not at all common. In Korea, Japanese cars are rare as hens teeth. Due to their history (and rivalry) that's understandable.

When I was in Japan a couple of years back, one thing that struck me was not seeing any Korean cars at all on the roads. Though they do have a fondness for the German brands though, Mercedes in particular.

It's not just cars either. You'd be hard-pressed to find any Samsung or LG products in their Harvey Norman/JB equivalents.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by DTFRMONT

When I was in Japan a couple of years back, one thing that struck me was not seeing any Korean cars at all on the roads. Though they do have a fondness for the German brands though, Mercedes in particular.

It's not just cars either. You'd be hard-pressed to find any Samsung or LG products in their Harvey Norman/JB equivalents.

There is great rivalry between the 2 nations based on underlying resentment from how the Japanese treated the Koreans during their occupation of the Korean peninsula.

They did their best to try and wipe out their identity. Thankfully they failed.

In terms of cars, Nissan did actually sell cars in Korea, however they were sold under the Samsung brand and touted as Euroasian based vehicles as at the time there was an alliance with Nissan and Renault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Samsung_Motors

Yeah lots of bad blood between the 2, both very patriotic, both very proud. However the Japanese were ruthless in their pursuit for dominance over Asia.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Utes/commercial vehicles are pretty well insulated though. Cause they are tool of trade vehicles, used by tradesmen and fleets and by couriers etc. The market won't suddenly just die. There will always be demand there.

And even if the demand drops for recreational buyers, it doesn't matter. Ford don't have a factory here they need to keep running. The Thai plant supplies the whole asian region.

The Fringe Benefits Tax exemption is a HUGE driver of Ute sales..
If GOVCO close that loophole Ute sales will drop dramatically (In my opinion)..

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The Fringe Benefits Tax exemption is a HUGE driver of Ute sales..
If GOVCO close that loophole Ute sales will drop dramatically (In my opinion)..

Yep, spot on.
Take away the subsidy and see what happens, funny how the sedan car market died soon after the introduction.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The Fringe Benefits Tax exemption is a HUGE driver of Ute sales..
If GOVCO close that loophole Ute sales will drop dramatically (In my opinion)..

Quite Possible, though I think they may have done the job in transitioning public from falcodores over to twin cabs, if they pulled the benefits away now.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yep, spot on.
Take away the subsidy and see what happens, funny how the sedan car market died soon after the introduction.

FBT was introduced by the Hawke Govt. in 1986. The sedan market was still booming in the mid 2000s.

Utes sell today because they are a viable alternative to the 4-door large car. They double as a work vehicle & will seat 5 people at other times. They weren't like that 20 years ago, they have grown in size considerably.

FBT helps, but the fact that tradies earn good money these days (& very low interest rates) makes them very affordable.

Dr Terry

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yep, spot on.
Take away the subsidy and see what happens.

A case in Point... My Brother inlaw as part of his Salary package is Entitled to a car..
He asked for a Camry, & got a New Triton Dualcab..!!

Just so they Didn't have to Pay FBT on the car..

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

They did their best to try and wipe out their identity. Thankfully they failed.

In terms of cars, Nissan did actually sell cars in Korea, however they were sold under the Samsung brand and touted as Euroasian based vehicles as at the time there was an alliance with Nissan and Renault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Samsung_Motors

Yeah lots of bad blood between the 2, both very patriotic, both very proud. However the Japanese were ruthless in their pursuit for dominance over Asia.

If someone tried to wipe out Australia we would set up a free trade agreement and ask them to be our number 1 trade partner 4 weeks later.



I like Ford and nothing really jumps out at me apart from the Ranger and Mustang and maybe the Everest.
The rest seem good enough but none would be at the top of my list if buying. Not sure why though. I feel like Ford cars and SUVs are just slipping into the background.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by hayseed

A case in Point... My Brother inlaw as part of his Salary package is Entitled to a car..
He asked for a Camry, & got a New Triton Dualcab..!!

Just so they Didn't have to Pay FBT on the car..

My work did the same thing years ago. Stopped buying ve commodores and fg falcons and went to duel cab utes for fleet cars..mind you.. we have no need for twin cab utes. A camry is more than enough but the bosses dont want the fbt attached to sedans.

My sons work only buy twin cabs for their managers and are now moving from single cab utes to new hiace vans for tradies.. my son is handing back his twin cab ute as he says its a waste of time on site.