Could Kevin Rudd/Kim Carr pursuade Ford to reverse shut down decision?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by westy73

Ok so has anyone read the latest Motor magazine.
In there the article about the GT and being the Final Phase is interesting. They even state that there is a market for larger sedans from Ford. The numbers they spoke of were 10000 Falcons, 5000 Utes and 15000 Territories. So that comes to 30000 cars per annum.

Now looking at an average sale price (I will go low side here of $30000 per vehicle) this comes to $900,000,000 per year. Is that not good enough dosh to keep making them here ? What would the costs be for this sort of turnover ?? I am no accountant but that sounds pretty good to me even on a low side average sale projection.

If have to factor in profit for what each vehicle costs to build. Maybe they make a third of that in profit. So 300,000,000. Then slice that into their operating costs. I wouldn't have a clue what that would be, but Ford "thinks" it not enough to continue.

Could the Government offer them anything to stay? Like I've said before, I think Ford has found a way to make it look acceptable to end their manufacturing in Aus once and for all.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford North America want to protect/create jobs for americans, they don't give a flying f about Australian jobs. Simple as that.

Ford in North America are interested in getting RETURN ON INVESTMENT!, Its not about an us and them fight, dearborn doesnt hate aussies! Even Manufacturing in the US is paling into insignificance when compared to ford plants in china/thailand/vietnam.
Globally, there are only so many dollars to go around, why invest in some ****ant factory in au making 30k cars in total when the same investment can build a brand new plant in asia knocking out 400-500k PER YEAR!
Aussies can be just as self centered as the Yanks when we have NO understanding of how big asia is, how important it is as an emerging economy, and just how much growth this region will experience over the coming decades.

[Bossxr8]

Did they ever give FoA a chance to export to those big Asian markets, bar the few hundred Territorys they sold in Thailand?

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Lardman

In which case if the grants aren't effective, I would personally look long and hard at how the business is operating, as it sounds like mismanagement may also be at play.

Your thoughts on my previous 2nd point however?

If "CMI is a flow-on issue from ailing local car sales, and the government not forcing decent management of their funds" then the same is true of Ford, Holden & Toyota.

"Why should a line be drawn?" Totally agree, but the squeaky wheel is getting all of the oil.

"Keeping manufacturing and skilled work, promoting innovation and up-skilling our workforce gives us a long term solution that isn't "****, save money from the mining taxes"." Totally agree.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by westy73

Ok so has anyone read the latest Motor magazine.
In there the article about the GT and being the Final Phase is interesting. They even state that there is a market for larger sedans from Ford. The numbers they spoke of were 10000 Falcons, 5000 Utes and 15000 Territories. So that comes to 30000 cars per annum.

Now looking at an average sale price (I will go low side here of $30000 per vehicle) this comes to $900,000,000 per year. Is that not good enough dosh to keep making them here ? What would the costs be for this sort of turnover ?? I am no accountant but that sounds pretty good to me even on a low side average sale projection.

They may well be selling each car for an average of $30,000 as they leave the factory gate, but the problem for all the Australian manufacturers is that it looks like it is costing them $35,000 plus to get a finished car to the gate. That business plan usually doesn't work for too long.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

They may well be selling each car for an average of $30,000 as they leave the factory gate, but the problem for all the Australian manufacturers is that it looks like it is costing them $35,000 plus to get a finished car to the gate. That business plan usually doesn't work for too long.

I worked for a company that would cost a job, take off 20%, then buy the job at that price. Their two competitors were doing the same. They no longer exist, neither does the company that sent them to the wall and bought them, and the company that bought the company that I worked for is laying off staff as I write this.

[Sprint]

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Anything is possible but you all talk like your resigned to the fact of ford failing.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Sprint

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Anything is possible but you all talk like your resigned to the fact of ford failing.

Not even if my buttocks were on fire !

[jamies]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Did they ever give FoA a chance to export to those big Asian markets, bar the few hundred Territorys they sold in Thailand?

Unfortunatly Toyota and Mitsubishi are massive in Asia and have large chunks of the market... K Rudd couldn't get it right the first time around what's going to change now ? The Labor party's a shambles.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Sprint

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by Sprint

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Anything is possible but you all talk like your resigned to the fact of ford failing.

Best choice for what ,this country needs a strong leader and even though i hate to say it i think abbot is the man for the job , i really dont like the bloke .Ford are only interested in the profit line and what they can produce for the world market ,us stupid buyers just dont count for anything ,very sad really

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Sprint

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Youre having a joke,right ........

He wasn't hardly in the country when he was in the chair last time, the in party fighting, the dribble that's gone on over throwing elected leaders

Seen better behaved kids in day care

If that's what a party can do within a party, theres no hope they will look after the country is there .......
We are the larfing stock to the world,how can anyone take us as a country seriously with stuff like that goin on recently

We outted little johny , since then the country has slid into the poo pile .....

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Sprint

K Rudd is our best choice, you all should vote for him.

Spot on. Abbot is a massively conservative, far-right, religious nut case without a single credible policy. The thought of giving someone like that any power at all is truly terrifying. He'll drag this country back decades. Its a sad irony, that with his constant "stop the boats" and "balance the budget" rhetoric, he's appealing to the exact people who will be harmed the most by his government.

Ooops, sorry. Wrong forum...

[Bossxr8]

Luckily Kevin took over again and will make it a tighter race. If Julia had stayed and been annihilated then the Libs would have control of the senate, and that would be bad for everyone. You don't want one person/party to have complete control.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Luckily Kevin took over again and will make it a tighter race. If Julia had stayed and been annihilated then the Libs would have control of the senate, and that would be bad for everyone. You don't want one person/party to have complete control.

This. Very much so. Too far one way or the other makes the scales fall over

[cheap]

KRudd has hubris. vast vast vast quantities of hubris (for those that do not know the word, look up its meaning on wiki and then tell me if I'm wrong).

The Australian Car industry is finished... just a mater of the last person turning out the lights.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by cheap

KRudd has hubris. vast vast vast quantities of hubris (for those that do not know the word, look up its meaning on wiki and then tell me if I'm wrong).

And the rest of them don't?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by cheap

KRudd has hubris. vast vast vast quantities of hubris (for those that do not know the word, look up its meaning on wiki and then tell me if I'm wrong).

The people's choice knifed in the back by the left wing, former supporters who now admit they made a huge mistake,
check out the rats leaving the sinking ship and never facing the people, that's why they're faceless and without honor..

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Youre having a joke,right ........

He wasn't hardly in the country when he was in the chair last time, the in party fighting, the dribble that's gone on over throwing elected leaders

Seen better behaved kids in day care

If that's what a party can do within a party, theres no hope they will look after the country is there .......
We are the larfing stock to the world,how can anyone take us as a country seriously with stuff like that goin on recently

We outted little johny , since then the country has slid into the poo pile .....

Howard did hardly anything notable in his third term.

Anyway, regardless of if Rudd was in the country or not his party still passed sweeping reforms to a number of fields in the last 2 terms. Education, Carbon Tax (And I can enlighten people if they think it was a bad idea because I worked with it for a while), in addition to funding for a number of infrastructure projects.

Getting us through the GFC was no small matter as well.

Strengthening ties with China was and still is a good idea - they've now overtaken the US as the world's largest car market.

Originally Posted by jpd80

The people's choice knifed in the back by the left wing, former supporters who now admit they made a huge mistake,
check out the rats leaving the sinking ship and never facing the people, that's why they're faceless and without honor..

I don't care about arbitrary values such as 'honour' in our parliament. As long as they bring strong policy and decisionmaking for the country, that's all that's needed to secure my vote. For all I care they could have a goat leading them.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Ford in North America are interested in getting RETURN ON INVESTMENT!, Its not about an us and them fight, dearborn doesnt hate aussies! Even Manufacturing in the US is paling into insignificance when compared to ford plants in china/thailand/vietnam.
Globally, there are only so many dollars to go around, why invest in some ****ant factory in au making 30k cars in total when the same investment can build a brand new plant in asia knocking out 400-500k PER YEAR!

Interesting how one Ford doesn't really apply to the US. Ranger isn't sold there anymore (maybe they're scared that it would take money away from the model that makes them money). Yet they saw fit to spot exporting the Terri to South Africa (about 25,000 units) so they could sell the Everest.

FoA wasn't going well but no real faith was put in it by the boys in the US. I guess one good thing is they're keeping the engineering department. Seeing as the guys here can get a car designed and tested a lot cheaper then the US boys it makes sense not to send another 1000 people packing.

[PepeLePew]

Been getting a tad astray on this page...please keep the discussion relevant to the topic and leave the irrelevant political discussion out of it, and the thread will live a longer life.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Spot on. Abbot is a massively conservative, far-right, religious nut case without a single credible policy. The thought of giving someone like that any power at all is truly terrifying. He'll drag this country back decades. Its a sad irony, that with his constant "stop the boats" and "balance the budget" rhetoric, he's appealing to the exact people who will be harmed the most by his government.

Ooops, sorry. Wrong forum...

Yet let's have Kev open up the borders further. Why have borders ?
Also let's just keep spending and borrowing money. Only 300 Billion in the red so what's another 300 billion dollars. I won't have to worry about it jsut my kids and their kids. Sheesh. What's going on I thought people were sick of being in debt to their eyeballs. Yes wrong forum indeed !!

[westy73]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Interesting how one Ford doesn't really apply to the US. Ranger isn't sold there anymore (maybe they're scared that it would take money away from the model that makes them money). Yet they saw fit to spot exporting the Terri to South Africa (about 25,000 units) so they could sell the Everest.

FoA wasn't going well but no real faith was put in it by the boys in the US. I guess one good thing is they're keeping the engineering department. Seeing as the guys here can get a car designed and tested a lot cheaper then the US boys it makes sense not to send another 1000 people packing.

They are only keeping the staff to placate the Government for now. Don't worry they will go as well and if you think otherwise your head is in the sand. WE ARE ONLY A WAREHOUSE DUMPING GROUND end of story.

[BroadyFord]

Kim Carr confirmed as new industry minister.

Interesting to see what happens now...

IMO Gillard played a big part in Ford's demise: dropped the GCIF, introduced the carbon tax, dropped Kim Carr as industry minister and replaced him with Greg Combet. Am I not wrong?

[GQ_Smooth]

The government played no part in Fords decision to close manufacturing. Lack of sales fleet and private is what did it, nothing more. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is pushing a political agenda (both sides).

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by westy73

They are only keeping the staff to placate the Government for now. Don't worry they will go as well and if you think otherwise your head is in the sand. WE ARE ONLY A WAREHOUSE DUMPING GROUND end of story.

Actually they spent a bucket load in the areas were R&D is being done. The factory itself is decaying away and little money is being spent on there. It is only getting upgrades were its required.

If you've been in the both places recently you would see what I'm talking about. Ford is still hiring engineers while gutting the crap out of the manufacturing facility.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Kim Carr confirmed as new industry minister.

Interesting to see what happens now...

IMO Gillard played a big part in Ford's demise: dropped the GCIF, introduced the carbon tax, dropped Kim Carr as industry minister and replaced him with Greg Combet. Am I not wrong?

The Labour Government came into power with basically no money owing on the Federal Governments credit card. In 2007 the production Neanderthals in the Labour government probably had a bit of leeway into how much money theu were going to spend on supporting unproductive industries. They dont have that luxury now (or shouldnt think they have that luxury now). Whatever they were doing then, didnt work then, and theres no reason to think it would work now.

Plus with the 300,000 plus cars made in 2007 and 2008 they could probably justify the expenditure, with 2013 looking like it wont reach 200,000 cars made in Australia, and with Ford announcing that it is packing up in 2016, they will be flogging a very dead horse.

Plus whats the cost of keeping Holden (or Toyota) in Australia. Holden lost $150 million or so last year (and thats on top of the $180 million in subsidies they get), on 75,000 odd Australian made cars. One would think Holden doesnt even want a status quo in the amount of taxpayer subsidy they currently get, but somewhere close to double what they currently get (just to make a reasonable rate of return).

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by westy73

Yet let's have Kev open up the borders further. Why have borders ?
Also let's just keep spending and borrowing money. Only 300 Billion in the red so what's another 300 billion dollars. I won't have to worry about it jsut my kids and their kids. Sheesh. What's going on I thought people were sick of being in debt to their eyeballs. Yes wrong forum indeed !!

300 billion? That's risen exponentially overnight...

[westy73]

Originally Posted by Lotte

300 billion? That's risen exponentially overnight...

Article from May 09 2012 -

The government's outstanding stock of public debt was about $235bn in March this year. The government expects the total level of debt to remain below $250bn at the beginning and end of next financial year.

link is here.....so be very worried.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226350371341

[westy73]

Sorry I know it was off topic bit still it is of public interest to know what our debt actually is. Kim Car may be a good appointment. We will see if it's too late.