The "ve" Thread - Page 4

jabba · 27-08-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minesbeta:-)

maybe.......but they are gonna have to be some really big updates, especially engine, fords are have to pull their socks up........fast

It would be near impossible for ford to make major changes to the current BA/F platform, due to financial quotas.. But if any were to take place this would be my pick..

Relocate the Battery and Windscreen washer bottle to the boot.

relocate the engines (6's and 8's) 1 inch lower and 2 inches back.
This would require slight changes to the sumps and fire wall...

Alloy blocks for 6's and 8's (it's time for Ford to get with the modern world)

The above changes would make a massive positive difference to he ride and handling to the BF, It would also make the car faster excelerating due to better weight distributing and weight reduction..

Increase the torque in the BOSS and bring it on at 2500rpm.. at the same time up kw to 300 for the GT and 270 for the XR8...... (It would be good to see the Ford beat holden with a smarter package rather then higher power motors....)

shorten the final drive for quicker take offs and lengthen the over drive to retain economical cruising.

Full Spectrum · 27-08-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How many posts have you done defending the VE. Its really quite incredible. The meantion of the 2 letters has you in like a shot to defend it. Do you spend as much time over at LS1?

4:

Don't like it don't reply to it simple :party3:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Had to laugh after reading yesterdays Herald Sun. They compared the VE Berlina to the BF Futura, and after spending 1 billion dollars Holden have made a car that only just won a comparison to a car based on a 9 year old platform (AU). The final comment was you could really go either way with your purchase and you should go with whoever gives you the better deal. This was performed with the old 4 speed auto, so add the 6 speed auto which will be available for BF II and it would have been even closer with even more superior economy to the Falcon, which used a litre less per 100 in the test. Bodes well for the Orion in 2008.

How many post have you done **** bagging the VE?.
It's amazing the mention of 2 letters gets you going into bag mode :dr_Evil:

Jock260 · 27-08-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

It would be near impossible for ford to make major changes to the current BA/F platform, due to financial quotas.. But if any were to take place this would be my pick..

Relocate the Battery and Windscreen washer bottle to the boot.

relocate the engines (6's and 8's) 1 inch lower and 2 inches back.
This would require slight changes to the sumps and fire wall...

Alloy blocks for 6's and 8's (it's time for Ford to get with the modern world)

The above changes would make a massive positive difference to he ride and handling to the BF, It would also make the car faster excelerating due to better weight distributing and weight reduction..

Increase the torque in the BOSS and bring it on at 2500rpm.. at the same
time up kw to 300 for the GT and 270 for the XR8...... (It would be good to see the Ford beat holden with a smarter package rather then higher power motors....)

shorten the final drive for quicker take offs and lengthen the over drive to retain economical cruising.

that would be my pick too mate

whynot · 27-08-2006, 04:52 PM

I find it fascinating reading car magazines whenever a new model is released. Because it is only then that the real opinions about the previous model comes out of the closet. For example, in the Wheels September 06 review of the VE:

“The on-centre dead patch and inconsistent weighting of the VZ – what the Holden engineers call ‘ghost steering’ – has vanished …there is no glugginess around centre …” Similar comments can be found about body stiffness, build quality, traction control, camber changes, etc, etc.

To be fair, the VE is an outstanding engineering achievement and, if one believes what is written, a serious leap forward in vehicle dynamics. But while one-eyed Holden fans will willing hand over hard cash (IBM use to call these people heat-seekers), in car fleet land things are a slightly different story.

If you wandered through the car park basement at my work five years ago it would have been mainly populated Commodores with a smattering of Falcons. The equipment level closely associated with your managerial rank. Since user-chooses packages have come into full effect, Holden have seriously lost their grip on the fleet. The basement now contains a mixture of 4WD, AWD, FWD, and RWD from all the different manufacturers. And a lot of them are not going back to Holden products, period.

The only ones remaining with the Commodores have done so because: A) it has four wheels, and B) it was the lowest priced fleet vehicle due to the deep discounts being offered. Initial prices from Holden indicate that fleet discounts will be minimal. If Holden stick with their pricing for the fleets, the story will get interesting, indeed.

(PS: My previous fleet lease was a 2004 VY Berlina. It is now, thankfully, a Territory.)

Outbackjack · 27-08-2006, 05:15 PM

Where I work, holdens are not permitted into company funded fleet. They have a ford only policy, based on the cost of ownership over 2 years. If you want to novate one, thats fine. But there are no novated ones that I am aware of. This seems to be because of the fleet companies forward estime of servicing and running costs. Fords are simply less expensive to own.

Bossxr8 · 27-08-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minesbeta:-)

maybe.......but they are gonna have to be some really big updates, especially engine, fords are have to pull their socks up........fast

What are you on about, the Ford 6 cylinders are better than the Holdens, and thats what 80% of the sales go too. Once the Orion comes out Ford will extend the difference between them even further. After reading Wheels article on the VE, they still say the Alloytec is a pretty poor example of a V6, their words not mine. They make less power and torque than the Barra 190 and use more petrol as well. V8's have Holden in front but they only sell in smaller numbers. Ford will be happy just to plod along with the BF2 which compares pretty well to the VE and its based on a 9 year old platform. Orion will leap past the VE just like the BA went past the VY. Its shaping up to be pretty special from what i've seen.

Ghiadude · 27-08-2006, 09:12 PM

ford vs holden = ok in the lower grades, losing when it comes to the tops spec xr's and ghia

fpv vs hsv = the only car that comes close would be the typhoon the rest are nothing but fodder for the E series hsvs. BFII must i repeat must have v8 engine upgrades if they dont want to loose too much market share. FPV is going to loose sales to HSV all over the park.

Nawdy · 27-08-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macca_779

Drove two VE's yesterday an SV6 Auto and an SS Manual.
Saw the SS first it had 20's on it and the Cobra Stripes. Very good looking car. Love the wheels, the 20's almost look to small the wheel arches are that big, very impressive.
Drove the SV6 first with high expectations, for the recalibrated V6 to inspire me abit. It didn't Holden has slightly improved the off idle throttle respose, but this has caused it to be two sensitive once under way.
I kept watching the tacho fluttering around while on the road to the slightest throttle flex.
The Auto aint bad shifts are a bit slow nowhere near as good as a 6 speed falcon.
Handling is pretty good of course i couldn't exactly drive how i wanted with the salesman in the back, but i did some 100k agressive lane swaps and besides the higher than expected body roll it didn't kick up two much of a fuss settling quickly and quite stable.
Performance was a huge let down, i've never been a fan of the alloytech and the VE is just as bad as in the VZ. Its totally gutless im sorry but 195kw to me should be punchier than that boat anhor is, the 5 speed does an ok job of hiding the severe lack of torque but its still not good enough. I drove half the time in sprots mode and the shift arent as agressive as they could be. Holden is claiming better NVH with the VE but with the 18's on the SV6 I tested, its about on par with a Falcon.
All in all not a bad car but not as good as i was expecting, which was something to rival an Audi which is supposadly what Holden was aiming for. Sorry not this time.

The SS on 20's well what can I say it sure does have some visual presence and the sticker kit works for the design too thats for sure. The car I drove also had the optional leather which has good support, more than the SV6 which if i buy one will be a mandatory option.
Sitting in the car i imediately feel at home, the new steering wheel is very functional and i love the rotary controls, pitty the cruise isn't there though. The handbrake is about 10 centermetres two far back and feels cheep and nasty, but i can see why Holden did it for practicality not functionality. The panel fit for the car has come so far its not funny. And the battery in the boot was certainly a requirement as there aint much room in there now with the shorter engine bay. I do like the fact that Holden has installed terminals for the battery in the engine bay, the positive is under a plastic cover and the negative post is just beside the left hand guard.
As for the road test it was the first time i've driven an LS2 so expectations were once again very high, a little too high it ended up. I have no doubt that this car is capable of mid 5 second 100k sprints, but like the LS1 it doesnt feel quick it just is quick. The torque rolls on better than an LS1 thats for sure and the recalibrated throttle is close to spot on unlike the V6, the manual probably helped though. The grip is quite high and confident I absolutley love the 20's I was expecting a harsher ride than what I got and if I bought one the standard 18's would feel like pillows.
The performance, hell its a quick car no doubt but to give an example I smashed the throttle comming out of a roundabout at around 40 and the thing just grips and goes but not like a high cube V8 should. I want head snapping throttle respose like my SS in first gear gives, not the ok I know what you want i'll give you a bit first then you can have all the horsepower in half a second. The LS1 does it and guess what the LS2 does it too. The traction is great and all, but with 270kw on tap you expect to have to drive the car rather than just steer it. I suppose we're living in a new age where car makers produce cars that are safe and then they are fun. I miss when they were developed the other way round. All in all the SS is a quick car that rides bloody well for how well it handles and sticks to the road and I could live with it very easily, but is it a fun car? Im not convinced. O and they still sound crap but they're getting there.

You weren't doing too bad (considering the fact it was written from a Ford blue point of view) until you mentioned LS2 - sorry, VE SS's aren't fitted with LS2's, L98's provide the HP. LS2's have a different feel again, and are fitted in HSV's.

I was interested in your impressions on the VE, and there are a lot of positive comments within your post (as there are throughout this thread), and that says a lot for the job Holden have done. Just getting Ford owners interested enough to go have a look says even more....

There is a lot of conjecture and guesswork in this thread, as well as numbers bandied about, don't they don't mean much until you can write from an experience point of view. I've driven XR6's, XR6T's and XR8's (what we should be comparing an SS to) and, trust me, Ford will be very interested in how good the VE is, and why it does what it can do. It will need to better what Holden has done, and Ford will realise it has a (not insurmountable) job in front of it.

And, yes, I am talking from real driving experience - I own a VE SS A6..... it's simply the best Holden I have ever driven period.

Can't wait for all the one-liners.....

jabba · 28-08-2006, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawdy

You weren't doing too bad (considering the fact it was written from a Ford blue point of view) until you mentioned LS2 - sorry, VE SS's aren't fitted with LS2's, L98's provide the HP. LS2's have a different feel again, and are fitted in HSV's.

You are wrong... The new SS Commodore is powered by the 6.0l LS2 gen4
See here http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...5&modelid=4005

Dilan · 28-08-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

You are wrong... The new SS Commodore is powered by the 6.0l LS2 gen4
See here http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...5&modelid=4005

its a gen 4 but not a ls2 mate

DOC · 28-08-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawdy

I was interested in your impressions on the VE, and there are a lot of positive comments within your post (as there are throughout this thread), and that says a lot for the job Holden have done. Just getting Ford owners interested enough to go have a look says even more....
and, trust me, Ford will be very interested in how good the VE is, and why it does what it can do. It will need to better what Holden has done, and Ford will realise it has a (not insurmountable) job in front of it.Can't wait for all the one-liners.....

With respect to the new VE, well done, and you write re just getting ford owners to have a look says a lot followed by ford has a job in front of it.

Having owned / driven many holdens and even if the VE is the worlds best car as far as internals go, i wanted to view one in the flesh before making a call. Well today i seen one and at first didn't know what it was, then twigged. So when you say go to have a look in truth i had a big smile on my face, the front of it was lets say politley very odd, and as for being the best it may be but i dont see how they are going to get that front end looking tough, it really is 4WD speck and looks as much out of place.

I think ford just need to keep doing what they are doing and after the hype dies down they will cruise it home.

Nawdy · 28-08-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

You are wrong... The new SS Commodore is powered by the 6.0l LS2 gen4
See here http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...5&modelid=4005

Sorry mate, but I do have bit of an idea of what I just bought

L98 specs: http://www.caradvice.com.au/613/60l-...v8-l98-engine/
LS2 specs: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archiv.../t-200043.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

With respect to the new VE, well done, and you write re just getting ford owners to have a look says a lot followed by ford has a job in front of it.

Having owned / driven many holdens and even if the VE is the worlds best car as far as internals go, i wanted to view one in the flesh before making a call. Well today i seen one and at first didn't know what it was, then twigged. So when you say go to have a look in truth i had a big smile on my face, the front of it was lets say politley very odd, and as for being the best it may be but i dont see how they are going to get that front end looking tough, it really is 4WD speck and looks as much out of place.

I think ford just need to keep doing what they are doing and after the hype dies down they will cruise it home.

"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" - that's probably about the best way I think I can answer. It will be interesting to see what Ford can produce, but 2 years is a long time in business; and that's when the new Ford is slated for release?

jabba · 28-08-2006, 09:41 PM

So there both 6lt Gen4's. the L98 has 270kw and the LS2 has 307 if I remember correctly.......

Apart from that what is the differance between the 2 engines..... Is it a similar sernario to the BOSS 260 - 290.. Where the 290 has higher compression ratio and stronger internals.....

Nawdy · 28-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

So there both 6lt Gen4's. the L98 has 270kw and the LS2 has 307 if I remember correctly.......

Apart from that what is the differance between the 2 engines..... Is it a similar sernario to the BOSS 260 - 290.. Where the 290 has higher compression ratio and stronger internals.....

You are right about the claimed power outputs.

The main difference is the L98 is basically the next generation on from the L76, which powered the VZ's. These motors are based on light truck motors from GM's America's inventory.

The LS2 comes from the Corvette side of the house, and is more the performance/premium choice of the two. I know it doesn't give you a full answer, but it's getting late - if you would like a more complete answer, I can provide better answers tomorrow.

:

crYnOid · 29-08-2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

So there both 6lt Gen4's. the L98 has 270kw and the LS2 has 307 if I remember correctly.......

Apart from that what is the differance between the 2 engines..... Is it a similar sernario to the BOSS 260 - 290.. Where the 290 has higher compression ratio and stronger internals.....

I think (and don't quote me as I may be wrong) that the LS2 and L98 have the same bottom end. They have a different top end, the LS2 having heads based on the Gen3 LS6 and a larger cam, and the L98 having Gen4 based heads (LS7 style) and smaller cam to keep the power down.

They also have different ECUs. I believe I read that the L98 (and L76) ECU has a FI table from the factory.

XR8-260 · 29-08-2006, 02:04 AM

I want to test the VE Commodore. However, I am not looking to buy one. I merely wish to see how it drives and performs compared to you know who... Will the sales people get ****ed off if I just want to test it out without buying?

macca_779 · 29-08-2006, 06:41 AM

The L76 Version has been shown to be quite an impressive performer with a little work. Mnay tuners rate it over HSV's LS2 due to the more effecient head design. There are a few customers driving L76's with 350kw+ that have only received a cam change and appropriate tune. And also retaining neer stock fuel economy at low to mid throttle inputs.

Garth · 29-08-2006, 03:14 PM

Anyone notice these grandpa cars got released today? If there's any interest some pics and specs are posted here: http://carsguide.news.com.au/

ClassicAU · 29-08-2006, 03:17 PM

i dont know, it just doesnt look right to me. it looks all disproportioned for whats supposed to be such a big car. inside is very nice though

pennybrain · 29-08-2006, 03:25 PM

Interesting read.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0...-21822,00.html

Hope they do a comparison of the performance models soon!

max · 29-08-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garth

Anyone notice these grandpa cars got released today? If there's any interest some pics and specs are posted here: http://carsguide.news.com.au/

Grandpa eh??????? Grandpa indeed...... Go wash your mouth out with soap! I think they look the bee's knees. Very lovely. Grandpa will still hang onto a
TM Magna with the electronic parking sensors fitted aftermarket or similar I think. I don't think his ticker could deal with a WM Statesman quite frankly.

Bucket · 29-08-2006, 03:53 PM

Repost Budd.. but a good read none the less

big_pete · 29-08-2006, 03:53 PM

very interesting. the BF stacks up quite well

heres the story for those lazy ones ;)

Quote:

BF Falcon vs VE Commodore
25 August 2006

James Stanford, Gavin McGrath, Graham Smith

PITCHING the BF Falcon against the VE Commodore was bound to be a big bout. The CARSguide test team has a winner.

The previous Falcon beat the old Commodore in our last sanctioned big Aussie car battle, but the Holden has since been rejuvenated at a cost of $1 billion. It has been in serious training for five years.
The BF Falcon was boosted with mechanical upgrades late last year, but it is much the same as the 2002 BA model.

It will be given a styling tweak and some other adjustments in October, before a new model hits in 2008.

We let the cars do battle in an extensive test on challenging Victorian roads, dirt tracks and highways.

We picked the most popular family models, the $39,175 Falcon Futura and the $40,240 Berlina.

ON THE ROAD

WITH $1 billion spent on developing the Commodore, you would think the VE Holden would easily beat the ageing Falcon. If you did, you are wrong. This fight goes all the way to the last round.

ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION

THE Falcon is the winner when it comes to punch. Torque is the key. It shouldn't be a surprise, given the Ford has 53Nm more on tap.

The last Commodore didn't need as much grunt because it was lighter. Now it is 11kg heavier than the Ford and you feel it.

The Berlina isn't a slug, but the engine does have to work a lot harder.

Going uphill, the Berlina's four-speed transmission has to drop down one or two gears more than the Ford equivalent, meaning the engine revs higher to maintain momentum.

That said, the Holden engineers have done a great job improving the refinement of the Alloytec V6.

It was pretty rough when it was introduced in the VZ model, with nasty noises and vibrations, but it is much smoother now.

At idle, the Holden engine is so quiet that sometimes we are not sure if the engine is turned on.

The Ford is not as smooth at idle. It vibrates a bit more, especially when switching the airconditioning on or off.

The Futura's engine does emit a rortier engine note, which adds to the sporty feel.

Its automatic transmission works better than the Berlina's, with smoother changes, but the difference is not huge.

Like almost all new cars, the Futura's automatic has a manual shift mode, but the Berlina misses out.

FUEL CONSUMPTION

YOU might expect the Futura to be thirstier than the Berlina because of its performance edge, but that's not the case.

In fact, the Ford is lighter on fuel than the Holden. We are probably harder on the cars during the test than most owners would be, but we drive both cars in exactly the same way.

The Berlina uses an average of 10.9 litres over 100km and the Falcon uses an average of 9.8 litres/100km.

Based on those figures, an average driver would spend an extra $6 a week to run the Holden at current fuel prices.

RIDE COMFORT

THE Berlina is the winner when it comes to ride comfort.

It is set softer than the Falcon and is nicer to ride in on smooth roads and most city streets. The Berlina's suspension might be too soft for some. It can float a bit when running over big bumps on broken country roads.

The Falcon set-up is firmer. It is still fairly comfortable, but not as nice as the Berlina. It is more lively and you feel more of the bumps.

The comfort level in the Berlina is aided by a quiet interior. We can feel the serenity.

The Futura is a pretty quiet car, with BF upgrades reducing noise levels, but the Berlina is quieter.

Intrusive tyre noise experienced on the Commodore launch early this month, particularly in sporty models, was not evident during the test.

HANDLING

BOTH cars have excellent road-holding ability. The Futura and Berlina both hang on well on dry tarmac, wet tarmac and slippery gravel.

Both have the advantage of traction control, but the Holden has the added safety of electronic stability control.

The Futura gives the driver more feel when pushing hard, both through the suspension and the steering, which is more solid than the Berlina. The VE Holden's steering is much lighter than the previous model, which was not good. The new system is very light on centre, but loads up as you turn.

It takes a while to get used to, but the lighter system is much less taxing when you are negotiating tight turns in places like car parks.

The Holden's driving position is much better than the Ford's and it is easier to get comfortable behind the wheel.

You feel as if you are sitting lower in the Berlina, but you still have good visibility.

The door line is higher and the driver feels more secure.

In the Futura, you feel you are sitting up higher.

INSIDE

APART from a rotten slab of plastic stuck on the dashboard that we think is supposed to imitate woodgrain, the Berlina's interior is very good.

A lot of time and effort has been spent creating a functional and attractive layout.

The buttons are all visible to the driver, unlike the pokey buttons for things such as the fuel cap release that are hidden behind the Futura's steering wheel.

The Berlina's sound system, which copies Ford's piano-key buttons, has a lot of bass and a cool green-coloured screen.

Dual-zone climate control in the Holden is a welcome feature, as is the Bluetooth that beams your phone calls through the car speakers, as long as you have the right phone.

We don't like the Berlina's handbrake, which is part of the centre console. It looks cheap and is clumsy to use.

The leather-wrapped steering wheel in the Berlina is a nice touch and the cloth trim looks fine, but we are not convinced the cloth fabric will endure the rigours of family travel.

The familiar Futura interior is starting to look dated.

Its plush felt seat trim is nice, but the dashboard is fairly plain and the centre control screen has been surpassed by the Berlina.

The plastic steering wheel doesn't match the Berlina's and the instrument panel doesn't look as classy.

Still, most of the controls are well laid out, especially the climate-control dials and radio controls.

The cruise control of both cars works well, but we prefer the steering wheel-mounted Ford system, rather than the stalk system of the Holden.

OUTSIDE

THERE is no competition when it comes to exterior styling. The Berlina looks so much better than the Futura, which is a now a plain Jane.

With its flared wheel arches, coupe-like roof line and 17-inch wheels, the Holden wins the fashion battle.

PRACTICALITY

APART from a silly decision to not include a split-fold rear seat, Holden has done well with practicality.

Things such as door bins for the rear-seat passengers, doors that open wider than the Futura's and a huge, flat-bottomed boot all add up.

Both cars offer lots of rear legroom and headroom, but the Berlina is easier to get in and out of.

Holden fitted the test car with the optional full-size spare tyre ($250), despite arguing that punctures are a thing of the past. We suggest owners do the same. The full-size spare takes up no more room in the boot.

THE VERDICT

This is close as both cars are world-class.

If you want to tow, the Futura is the car to have. It is also the car we would pick for a fun run on a twisty road.

The Berlina's fuel-drinking problem is a concern and could put off quite a few potential buyers.

For us, the Holden is the better car for everyday driving. It needs more torque, but is more refined, quieter, is more comfortable to ride in on most roads and looks to be a prestige car.

There is more useable boot space, the driving position is better and it has electronic stability control as standard.

The Berlina wins this fight - just - but we would jump either way depending on which brand offered the best discount.

big_pete · 29-08-2006, 03:58 PM

i think they look great.
i wouldnt mind the V8 version thats for sure

**Polyal** · 29-08-2006, 04:03 PM

hmmm...the media are jumping on the fuel issue, and all over $6 a week...lol

God knows why Ford still persits with the Futura, whats the difference between than and a XT?...Hubcaps? rear power windows?

And theres lies fords issue, model differeniation (sp?). The holdens do look more sporty and adverntureous.

And why have Holden not got split seats yet? They are a God send when ou need to pack stuff in the boot. Perhaps US regs or something....

XR8 Uterous · 29-08-2006, 04:06 PM

I don't think the Caprice looks to bad... defiantly an improvement over the SWB sedans...

**Polyal** · 29-08-2006, 04:06 PM

hmmm I love my LWB's, but I dont rate that at all, somethings just a little.....

**Mechan1k** · 29-08-2006, 04:12 PM

But for a brand new vehicle to come out ... and with Ford having an old model competing against it ... the test drivers come back with "there's not much difference in it" ... just goes to show that $1 billion investment in the new model was really just a big wate of money/time for Holden.

uranium_death · 29-08-2006, 04:18 PM

As I said 50 million times before (PLEASE STOP REPOSTING! DAMMIT!), the Holden Commodore looks far more modern and the money spent you would think would have to reflect that.

But I still prefer the Falcon. I am not a fan of the new Commodore look. It's modern, but not for me. The interior is nice though.

But the Falcon, mechanically still puts up a bloody good fight. If they used the six speed from the BFII then I reckon the Falcon, mechanically would beat the Commodore on standard models.

The futura I agree. It should be identified as the "safety model" or be dumped completely. The XT should be a bread and butter model with an engine, four wheels and transmission included (what a bargain that is!)
The Futura should be the safety model coming with traction/stability control (and all that crap), front and side airbags and other ****.

The Fairmont can be the luxury model, while the Fairmont Ghia can be safety and lixury combined in one giant orgasmic pleasure-overload resulting in sticky fingers and lots of Spray and Wipe.

Or maybe I'm just a complete spaz who is making no sense.

So I'll go now.

Out on Patrol.

pennybrain · 29-08-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

hmmm...the media are jumping on the fuel issue, and all over $6 a week...lol

God knows why Ford still persits with the Futura, whats the difference between than and a XT?...Hubcaps? rear power windows?

And theres lies fords issue, model differeniation (sp?). The holdens do look more sporty and adverntureous.

And why have Holden not got split seats yet? They are a God send when ou need to pack stuff in the boot. Perhaps US regs or something....

I wonder how well the 6L performance range will go with the fuel issue...I know it aint that much more than 5.4L but if petrol gets to $2 a litre I will be being more conservative with my petrol budget!!