Shopper docket fuel trap

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Just did a quick scan this morning of my 3 local servos within a stones throw of each other.

Shell (Coles), discounted unleaded 141.9, bowser price is 149.9.

BP, unleaded 149.9, as Cobramania stated above 2 bottle of coke gets you 8c off (I know as I buy my premium for the GT here)

Indepedant, unleaded 141.9 bowser. (my refuel spot for all things other than the GTs)

Then the Wolies Caltex up the road 2 kms by itself (no competitor at a stones throw) unleaded discounted 154.9, bowser 162.9.

Yeah were getting great deal with our fuel discount vouchers, inflate the fuel price then give you discount....

great in depth research there stefan. you do realise that all servos operate on a discount cycle and not all of them run the same cycle, so while 2 of the 3 are cheaper today, it may not be the case later in the week or on the weekend.

people who use the dockets generally have a pretty good idea of the fuel price as well, and generally fill up when the cycle is at its lowest.

way too many generalisations in this thread.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by prydey

great in depth research there stefan. you do realise that all servos operate on a discount cycle and not all of them run the same cycle, so while 2 of the 3 are cheaper today, it may not be the case later in the week or on the weekend.

people who use the dockets generally have a pretty good idea of the fuel price as well, and generally fill up when the cycle is at its lowest.

way too many generalisations in this thread.

Yeah the cycle, I'm not geting into the cycle as quite frankly the ACCC can't work it out, I'm not going to even try to myself. I need fuel I get it. I do know I get my regular unleaded at the same price as the guys using dockets filling up his car next door at shell but I don't need to shop at coles or woolies.

If I needed the fuel this morning I'd have paid 141.9, If the guy next to me went to BP, he'd need top spend $6 on coke to get the same price of pay 149.9. The guy next him need to buy his shopping at coles to get that price or pay 149.9. Where's the discount?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I need fuel I get it.

i agree. i filled on monday for close to $1.70. (bp ultimate). obviously at the highpoint of the cycle and no dockets. didn't matter and didn't care, i needed fuel.

as mentioned earlier in the thread, i'm not a docket user as i only use bp ultimate, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing the flaws in a lot of the arguments put forward as to how it is a 'scam'.

we all have to shop to fill our fridges and pantries. can't be avoided. some like to tell themselves that avoiding the big multinationals is the smartest thing to do. if thats what helps you sleep at night then well done. others are extremely happy to shop at their local shop, whether it be woolies, coles, or whatever. if there is a small kickback on the side, why begrudge it? its not like you had to go out of your way to get it given you were shopping there anyway (ok i realise some do go out of there way to get a voucher but there's no logic with some, generally the aged).

if these companies are forcing out the competition, then that is another topic altogether. avoiding them on principle is fine but some don't care and will shop at the store that is closest or cheapest for them.

the irony is that many are hailing the stores like aldi, but forgive me for asking but how are they different to coles/woolies??? foreign owned, forcing prices down, screwing suppliers etc etc.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by prydey

the irony is that many are hailing the stores like aldi, but forgive me for asking but how are they different to coles/woolies??? foreign owned, forcing prices down, screwing suppliers etc etc.

Ok - time for a little rant.

All the major supermarkets have a similar ratio of imported/homegrown goods. Aldi has a completely different business model that makes things cheaper because most of their items have no brand competitors. You want Cola - you buy their cola or no cola... And it's dirt cheap because they dedicate a much smaller amount of real estate and resources to their single brand product - than a supermarket.
IE: Safeway/Coles have almost a whole aisle for soft drink. They have Coke, Pepsi, LA Ice, Tarax, Schweppes, etc etc... Aldi has a pallet size space per flavour (cola) - no shelves.
Safeway/Coles require shelf-stackers to remove the items from the box, put them on the shelf, dispose of the rubbish, etc.
Aldi - they drop the pallet on the floor. Done.

Aldi customer service is pretty much non-existant. If you want smiles, your bags packed, and a nice conversation with a check-out-chick... Go to Safeway/Coles.
You want to save money and work (slightly) for it... Go to Aldi...
I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone shop at Aldi for the first time and get flustered when the item scanner continues sliding things thru at a speedy rate, where the customer has no idea what to do with all the items.... But the Aldi customer service just keeps on going... you eventually work it out...

ANYWAY - enough about Aldi... They're here to stay.... Deal with it....

The petrol discounts - well they are a discount on an inflated price.... But it's all about ensuring that you do shop at their supermarket instead of someone elses. Even if they were taking a loss on the fuel (which in some cases I'm sure they do with the 12c, 16c, 18c, 30c discounts they offer some times) but they're getting into your pocket at the other end - so it all works out in the end.

Prydey - you're spot on - we all have to fill our fridges and pantries.... And the fuel discount is designed to make you choose/side with a particular supermarket... They also know you've gotta get groceries - they just want it to be them.
You need a bottle of milk - and it doesn't really matter to you where you get it from.
They need you to buy THEIR milk - because they don't want you to buy it from anyone else but them.

I love Australia - we live in a country where we want high paying jobs, growth in our country, and plenty of money to go around for ourselves.
But - we want to pay nothing for everything (which means we need to buy cheaper imported products) and therefore make it harder to achieve what we want.

We whinge and complain about the cost of living, and the price of fuel, etc etc... We've got it easy.... Enjoy what you've got - knowing that 95% of the rest of the world would LOVE to be where we are, living how we live... Enjoying their lives...

Rant over - I need a coffee....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

The petrol discounts - well they are a discount on an inflated price.... But it's all about ensuring that you do shop at their supermarket instead of someone elses. Even if they were taking a loss on the fuel (which in some cases I'm sure they do with the 12c, 16c, 18c, 30c discounts they offer some times) but they're getting into your pocket at the other end - so it all works out in the end.

this is the bit i have trouble with. everyone telling me that i'm either paying more in the shop, or more at the bowser, but simple me just can't see it. all the coles/woolies servo's i see are the same price as the bp, caltex (non woolies), on the run, united etc etc. obviously there will be the odd one here or there that is on a different cycle but in general, all the servo's are competing and they all offer the same basic price 99% of the time. as for the shopping, you can question the quality of the goods but this discussion is mainly about price and i'm pretty sure they aren't getting you there either, as the competition is right next door many times. i've yet to have issues with the quality of the products as well. each to their own.

that is the only issue i have with this topic.

as for aldi, they've just announced a roll out of 40 stores in adelaide so maybe i'll get to experience that eventually.

the docket scheme is only a scam if you are no good at simple maths and observations.

and yes, a coffee was a good idea. coffee beans are definitely something i won't be buying at a supermarket

[Sox]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

All the major supermarkets have a similar ratio of imported/homegrown goods. Aldi has a completely different business model that makes things cheaper because most of their items have no brand competitors. You want Cola - you buy their cola or no cola... And it's dirt cheap because they dedicate a much smaller amount of real estate and resources to their single brand product - than a supermarket.
IE: Safeway/Coles have almost a whole aisle for soft drink. They have Coke, Pepsi, LA Ice, Tarax, Schweppes, etc etc... Aldi has a pallet size space per flavour (cola) - no shelves.
Safeway/Coles require shelf-stackers to remove the items from the box, put them on the shelf, dispose of the rubbish, etc.
Aldi - they drop the pallet on the floor. Done.

Aldi customer service is pretty much non-existant. If you want smiles, your bags packed, and a nice conversation with a check-out-chick... Go to Safeway/Coles.
You want to save money and work (slightly) for it... Go to Aldi...
I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone shop at Aldi for the first time and get flustered when the item scanner continues sliding things thru at a speedy rate, where the customer has no idea what to do with all the items.... But the Aldi customer service just keeps on going... you eventually work it out...

Yet they're still no cheaper when comparing like for like generic brands.
Go figure.

I love Australia - we live in a country where we want high paying jobs, growth in our country, and plenty of money to go around for ourselves.
But - we want to pay nothing for everything (which means we need to buy cheaper imported products) and therefore make it harder to achieve what we want.

We whinge and complain about the cost of living, and the price of fuel, etc etc... We've got it easy.... Enjoy what you've got - knowing that 95% of the rest of the world would LOVE to be where we are, living how we live... Enjoying their lives...

Well said.

[poppa smurf]

I buck the trend I'm afraid, last of the dinosaurs I guess......

vegetables are bought from our local vegie retailer who gets everything they can locally,
most of our tucker supplies are purchased through an independent grocer

fuel I buy (when home) from the same family that have been in business for as long as I can remember

do I pay top dollar......probably.....do I care.....not really.......these folks have kids that go to our schools

they support local clubs and money raising affairs......donations are readily available for any worthwhile event

I wont go near coles or woolies, petrol or food while we have independents that live here and spend their money here.......shopper docket or no shopper docket

but like I say I'm a dinosaur

[350125GO]

Go to Costco when I can, the rest from Woolworths and a few items rarely from IGA/Coles/Harris Farm.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by prydey

i agree. i filled on monday for close to $1.70. (bp ultimate). obviously at the highpoint of the cycle and no dockets. didn't matter and didn't care, i needed fuel.

as mentioned earlier in the thread, i'm not a docket user as i only use bp ultimate, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing the flaws in a lot of the arguments put forward as to how it is a 'scam'.

we all have to shop to fill our fridges and pantries. can't be avoided. some like to tell themselves that avoiding the big multinationals is the smartest thing to do. if thats what helps you sleep at night then well done. others are extremely happy to shop at their local shop, whether it be woolies, coles, or whatever. if there is a small kickback on the side, why begrudge it? its not like you had to go out of your way to get it given you were shopping there anyway (ok i realise some do go out of there way to get a voucher but there's no logic with some, generally the aged).

if these companies are forcing out the competition, then that is another topic altogether. avoiding them on principle is fine but some don't care and will shop at the store that is closest or cheapest for them.

the irony is that many are hailing the stores like aldi, but forgive me for asking but how are they different to coles/woolies??? foreign owned, forcing prices down, screwing suppliers etc etc.

Yes ALDI isn't Australian own, but if you stop and look at their products alot of them a packed in Australia and some are even produced in Australia. I can't say the same for the others. But what I know it means my kids can get the little extras, like snacks in the lunch boxes, because I can afford them. A weekly shop was costing me around $200 at woolies, where at ALDI around $100. And I find if you actually give there stuff ago, it's better then the name brands. Admittedly there fruit hasn't got that great of range, but I just go to harvest markets for that. But I have found nothing wrong with the meat they sell there, and 25 years in the meat game, I trust that I'm a good judge of that.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Yes ALDI isn't Australian own, but if you stop and look at their products alot of them a packed in Australia and some are even produced in Australia. I can't say the same for the others. But what I know it means my kids can get the little extras, like snacks in the lunch boxes, because I can afford them. A weekly shop was costing me around $200 at woolies, where at ALDI around $100. And I find if you actually give there stuff ago, it's better then the name brands. Admittedly there fruit hasn't got that great of range, but I just go to harvest markets for that. But I have found nothing wrong with the meat they sell there, and 25 years in the meat game, I trust that I'm a good judge of that.

Just adding to this, Aldi have agreements with major manufactures so some of the brands that you see on their shelves that you’ve never heard of are actually the major manufactures. Ice cream comes from Nestles, baked goods from Goodman Fielder, pork from Rivalea etc. The same stuff that goes to everyone else.

You only have to look at the trucks that deliver to their distribution centres, what they have on and where they come from.

[robbyj]

how many of you sit down and read the 'junk mail' sent out by woolies and coles each week. I don't, but dad does and has for as long as i can remember.

He goes through and reads the specials, and makes a shopping list for safeway, coles and aldi. Then does the shopping, out fridge is always stacked with fuel dockets for caltex and shell (we have 4 cars). So ill happily use them, unless i'm running a tank BP ultimate.

And no, he doesn't waste all the savings running from supermarket to supermarket. As Aldi to safeway is a 1 minute drive, safeway to coles is a 2 minute drive.

Oh and don't get me started on his veggie garden, or the fridge full of venison, duck, rabbit, roo for the dogs, etc etc

And he can easily afford the throw $600 out the window, but why would you?

[castellan]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is the bit i have trouble with. everyone telling me that i'm either paying more in the shop, or more at the bowser, but simple me just can't see it. all the coles/woolies servo's i see are the same price as the bp, caltex (non woolies), on the run, united etc etc. obviously there will be the odd one here or there that is on a different cycle but in general, all the servo's are competing and they all offer the same basic price 99% of the time. as for the shopping, you can question the quality of the goods but this discussion is mainly about price and i'm pretty sure they aren't getting you there either, as the competition is right next door many times. i've yet to have issues with the quality of the products as well. each to their own.

that is the only issue i have with this topic.

as for aldi, they've just announced a roll out of 40 stores in adelaide so maybe i'll get to experience that eventually.

the docket scheme is only a scam if you are no good at simple maths and observations.

and yes, a coffee was a good idea. coffee beans are definitely something i won't be buying at a supermarket

It's a scam in all. but yes any fool can see the math.
And observations well it's madness as i drive around from south bris to north to Toowoomba and the Gold coast. but i will tell ya what woolies fuel is mainly 2c up on Caltex so you only get 2c out of ya 4c docket, and it's 3rd rate fuel at 91 oct, well in my car it is anyway. BP or Shell is good 91 oct but your paying at least 4c more on average without a docket.
Don't worry i look at the price of every station i go past and full up only when it's on the low cycle or only put what i need for the day or carry a Jerry can.
I am sick of the wild swings in price it's madness and if we got rid of the dockets fraud scam, prices would come down accordingly.

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Haha, you obviously have never done a real shop, does your mum do it for you??

Seriously at the corned shop?? So you go into the corner shop and buy $200-300 worth of groceries for your weekly shopping, and then you go to the local BP and get raped again on your petrol.

Wow mate, two threads about two entirely different things that you have personally attacked me when you have no information on me whatsoever. I'm seriously about to report you.

Yes the corner shop. If I need some milk or bread, I'm not going to drive halfway across town to get it when I go for a walk down the street to get it. I don't do my grocery shopping at a corner shop.. Common sense please, mate.


Just FYI, I live at home now after my girlfriend left me. I pay my own rent, utilities, internet etc. I don't live here for free and I don't get "taken care of". It's a roof over my head that's stable and is cheap. Enough of these personal attacks against me like it's some sort of vendetta.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by efirestorer

My real beef seems to have been mostly overlooked , that is - the removal of the discount without notice.

All the Coles Shell outlets near me had the notice up for three weeks prior to the discount ending, on the counter in a plastic A4 display.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

Ok - time for a little rant.

All the major supermarkets have a similar ratio of imported/homegrown goods. Aldi has a completely different business model that makes things cheaper because most of their items have no brand competitors. You want Cola - you buy their cola or no cola... And it's dirt cheap because they dedicate a much smaller amount of real estate and resources to their single brand product - than a supermarket.
IE: Safeway/Coles have almost a whole aisle for soft drink. They have Coke, Pepsi, LA Ice, Tarax, Schweppes, etc etc... Aldi has a pallet size space per flavour (cola) - no shelves.
Safeway/Coles require shelf-stackers to remove the items from the box, put them on the shelf, dispose of the rubbish, etc.
Aldi - they drop the pallet on the floor. Done.

Aldi customer service is pretty much non-existant. If you want smiles, your bags packed, and a nice conversation with a check-out-chick... Go to Safeway/Coles.
You want to save money and work (slightly) for it... Go to Aldi...
I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone shop at Aldi for the first time and get flustered when the item scanner continues sliding things thru at a speedy rate, where the customer has no idea what to do with all the items.... But the Aldi customer service just keeps on going... you eventually work it out...

ANYWAY - enough about Aldi... They're here to stay.... Deal with it....

Irony is aldi have a large % of the pie,and they have minimal stores compared to the rest
Throwing the groceries in my bags at my pace,buying from a pallet on a floor,is alot better than paying premium for a smily face,nice fancy shelves,and paying for all the wages and overheads ,but thats another story
What gets up my nose, go to Big W and they are pushing the auto tellers like no tomorrow,lucky if theres 2 or 3 person run checkouts, yet the prices dont drop due to lower overheads , yet after sacking workers parade how they make X millions more profit
Some businesses are purely for the share holder, regardless of how a cost cut is made, its the share holders not the employees that come first
The head to head battles amongst various businesses, its good for the consumer when the battle rages, but when theres one winner, the customer doesnt win then .....
When bunnings hit the scene they shafted all before them,done any deal possible to extract the business from others,did there price go down once that was acheived,no sir ....

[Angeldust]

the reason you can't see the 'scam' in the shopper dockets is becasue its already too late. The whole market is owned by the duopoly coupled with the few petrol distributors, and any independants must also maintain high prices just to barely compete. The prices are dictated to you, and its already too late to see what the differences 'might' have been.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Kable72

Wow mate, two threads about two entirely different things that you have personally attacked me when you have no information on me whatsoever. I'm seriously about to report you.

Yes the corner shop. If I need some milk or bread, I'm not going to drive halfway across town to get it when I go for a walk down the street to get it. I don't do my grocery shopping at a corner shop.. Common sense please, mate.

Please show me where I have personally attacked you??? PS the above post does show you threatening me, so may be people in glass houses should not throw stones and be too precious

And on top of that I guess I have caught you out making stuff up to try and support your argument, in post 53 you stated that you do your shopping at the corner store implying you don't go to supermarkets to shop, and now it's just the occasional bread and milk, hardly all your shopping, unless of course as stated by me earlier, you don't do any shopping and someone else does it for you. So my guess is I was right on the money with my original statement

[JAYMZ]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Just did a quick scan this morning of my 3 local servos within a stones throw of each other.

Shell (Coles), discounted unleaded 141.9, bowser price is 149.9.

BP, unleaded 149.9, as Cobramania stated above 2 bottle of coke gets you 8c off (I know as I buy my premium for the GT here)

Indepedant, unleaded 141.9 bowser. (my refuel spot for all things other than the GTs)

Then the Wolies Caltex up the road 2 kms by itself (no competitor at a stones throw) unleaded discounted 154.9, bowser 162.9.

Yeah were getting great deal with our fuel discount vouchers, inflate the fuel price then give you discount....

The price difference would just be that the Woolies servo just had a fill up with the "latest" fuel, and the following 3 servos will follow when they get their top ups.

Very noticeable here too, same idea, but with BP first to jack up the price followed by United, Caltex (independent), 7/11, with Caltex/Woolies last.

But i really need to check my BP for any discounts as i dont believe my local has any offers like that. Saving 4-8c off Ultimate98 sounds good though.

[GTP534]

The Woolies Caltex is only a 5 to 10 minute drive from where we live; this is the closest service station. The nearest BP and Shell are at least a 20 minute drive for us. I wouldn't even know where the nearest Independent is to be quite honest. The other thing is with 1 car drinking 98 and the other drinking 95 (my preference) I'm not sure what the quality of fuel is like from an independent whereas I've had no problems to date with using Caltex.

[JAYMZ]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Irony is aldi have a large % of the pie,and they have minimal stores compared to the rest
Throwing the groceries in my bags at my pace,buying from a pallet on a floor,is alot better than paying premium for a smily face,nice fancy shelves,and paying for all the wages and overheads ,but thats another story
What gets up my nose, go to Big W and they are pushing the auto tellers like no tomorrow,lucky if theres 2 or 3 person run checkouts, yet the prices dont drop due to lower overheads , yet after sacking workers parade how they make X millions more profit
Some businesses are purely for the share holder, regardless of how a cost cut is made, its the share holders not the employees that come first
The head to head battles amongst various businesses, its good for the consumer when the battle rages, but when theres one winner, the customer doesnt win then .....
When bunnings hit the scene they shafted all before them,done any deal possible to extract the business from others,did there price go down once that was acheived,no sir ....

Aldi do not really have much on the big two, they are just like that small stone in your shoe that you notice sometimes. Aldi actually bring more customers to the big 2 when they build next a Woolies/Coles.

Big W (Woolworths) do not sack workers due to business changes, jobs are moved to other areas/sectors of the business.

Self serves are the next stage in technology, trying to catch up to European countries...slowly. Like it or loath it, learn how to use them properly or you'll get left behind. Just like my dad with smartphones... lol

[robbyj]

the 20 check out chicks at big W that are made redundant from their self serve machines are then used to help customers use the ****** things! They are horrible.

They need some of their supermarket ones in there.

[LTDHO]

"Fuel docket trap" someone call Tracy Grimshaw!!!!!

Ok, so a company stopped a deal where you could save a couple of bucks. Get over it. As previously said if you are buying from woolies or coles for the disounts, then you are not doing yourself any favors in the first place.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by JAYMZ

Aldi do not really have much on the big two, they are just like that small stone in your shoe that you notice sometimes. Aldi actually bring more customers to the big 2 when they build next a Woolies/Coles.

It might have started that way but they've been quietly increasing their range in recent times and now I find we can get almost everything there and the need to top up at Colesworths is very small, only a few specialised items. The savings are huge, plus they're selling some quite good generic brand alcohol.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Angeldust

the reason you can't see the 'scam' in the shopper dockets is becasue its already too late. The whole market is owned by the duopoly coupled with the few petrol distributors, and any independants must also maintain high prices just to barely compete. The prices are dictated to you, and its already too late to see what the differences 'might' have been.

i wonder how many people who think like this buy australian made when it comes to cars??

its the same thing isn't it. everyone very passionate about supporting the local when it comes to fuel and food, but drive around in imported cars!!

everyone happy for the govt to remove tariffs and allow any manufacturer to enter the market because it 'forces the locals to lift their game'.

is it different when the amount being spent is larger?

if only those who care about the locals supported ALL local industries, it would seem a lot less hypocritical.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The savings are huge,

care to elaborate with some examples?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by prydey

care to elaborate with some examples?

I'd just love to see this too.

I've been through this a few times over the years, and comparing like for like generic products, the prices are line ball between the 3 majors.

It's a myth that Aldi have any advantage over Coles and Woolworths.

[Kable72]

Deleted, not worth it.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by prydey

care to elaborate with some examples?

A couple on this thread have already given their price experiences. If I shop for the same regular things we always get, I'm paying maybe $100 in Aldi compared to $150 in Colesworths.

Given that the generics in Aldi are generally better quality than the generics in Colesworths, that comparison includes generics competing against name brands - which may seem unfair, but the consumer is entitled to acceptable quality. If you compare all Aldi generics with all generics from Colesworths then, yes, the discrepancy will probably be smaller. But we wouldn't buy a lot of the Colesworths generics so the comparison is meaningless for us.

Here's some stuff in the news:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonig...sies-pay-more/
http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonig...pricey-prices/

Before you jump and say it's only a TV current affairs program, it comes from ACA and academic studies. When I was overseas I checked OECD figures on average disposable incomes and cost of living between Australia and Czech Republic and Germany and the disparity in Australia was some 30-50% higher than in those countries. As I said, it's an issue that should be pursued by voters with politicians - or just accept it and convince ourselves we live in the lucky country

[efirestorer]

LDTHO - I would suggest pigs will be flying when a current affairs programme on a commercial TV network , publicizes anything like this -they won't do anything to upset their advertising revenue.
As to one suggestion ( maybe from a Coles/Shell employee ? ) ," look up terms and conditions on the internet ". I don't know of any consumer who will be looking up for the fine print when going out to fill up .
Rapid Axe was lucky that the discount removal notice was up for 3 weeks , the Shell servo I went to for the start of this thread had no notice then , but now , surprise surprise ( perhaps as a result of this thread ) there is a notice BUT NOT ON DISPLAY , if you ask where is the discount 2 cents off - they produce the notice hidden behind the counter.
I will in future do business with retailers who are upfront about discounts , at least at Woolies - there is plenty of signage offering the 4 cents extra off , and if you don't pay any extra in store above what you pay elsewhere , why not take the extra 4 cents discount.

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Irony is aldi have a large % of the pie,and they have minimal stores compared to the rest
Throwing the groceries in my bags at my pace,buying from a pallet on a floor,is alot better than paying premium for a smily face,nice fancy shelves,and paying for all the wages and overheads ,but thats another story
What gets up my nose, go to Big W and they are pushing the auto tellers like no tomorrow,lucky if theres 2 or 3 person run checkouts, yet the prices dont drop due to lower overheads , yet after sacking workers parade how they make X millions more profit
Some businesses are purely for the share holder, regardless of how a cost cut is made, its the share holders not the employees that come first
The head to head battles amongst various businesses, its good for the consumer when the battle rages, but when theres one winner, the customer doesnt win then .....
When bunnings hit the scene they shafted all before them,done any deal possible to extract the business from others,did there price go down once that was acheived,no sir ....

Buy as much of your stuff from Aldi, then use the amount you saved by buying shares in Woolies and Wesfarmers(Coles) then you will be in front. Same with using toll roads buy shares in the company, Transurban is one of them. More or less it's if you can't beat them join them!!