Runaway Ford Explorer - No mechanical faults

[djjase]

Originally Posted by JC

2. You drop 15km/h in speed (ie going up a steepish hill towing a 1.6 tonne boat - the hill on the Hume at Pheasant's Nest is enough to make this happen)
3. You turn the key to the Acc or Off position

For those wondering about fuses in the Explorer - they are not accessible from the drivers seated position. The fuses reside in the engine bay, with a further set above the accelerator with access under the dash (you have to lie on the floor to get to them).

!

Any car towing a 1.6 tonne boat going up a hill is going to slow down

So your saying that putting your keys in the Off position doesnt lock the steering -

Exactly where the guy who shorted out the fuses in the USA - the set that resides in the engine bay.

He stated that the issues are related to all of the electrical items that are in the engine bays - they reach a failure point when they have been put under things like extreme heats, getting wet etc - all electrical things have a failure point

[JC]

Originally Posted by djjase

Any car towing a 1.6 tonne boat going up a hill is going to slow down

Missed the point again, didn't we? Slowing down by 15km/h or more DISENGAGES the cruise control.

Originally Posted by djjase

So you're saying that putting your keys in the Off position doesnt lock the steering -

Correct (something you have written had to be right, eventually, didn't it?? Even a broken clock is right twice a day) - the steering only locks when you pull the keys out of the ignition, Chase.

Originally Posted by djjase

Exactly where the guy who shorted out the fuses in the USA - the set that resides in the engine bay.

He stated that the issues are related to all of the electrical items that are in the engine bays - they reach a failure point when they have been put under things like extreme heats, getting wet etc - all electrical things have a failure point

So what? It's not something you can do while driving though, is it? There are around 58 fuses in the explorer engine bay, which ones did the guy in the states short out? What relevance does that even have to this issue (besides none). Why am I asking these questions?

Can a mod please move this thread from the pub to the Explorer section; if only to hide it from djjase?

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by djjase

Any car towing a 1.6 tonne boat going up a hill is going to slow down

So your saying that putting your keys in the Off position doesnt lock the steering -

Exactly where the guy who shorted out the fuses in the USA - the set that resides in the engine bay.

He stated that the issues are related to all of the electrical items that are in the engine bays - they reach a failure point when they have been put under things like extreme heats, getting wet etc - all electrical things have a failure point

1. Only as complete retard would turn the ignition to 'OFF' however it still wouldn't affect the brakes.

2. The electronics of the car are completely irrelevant as the braking system is hydraulic.

What exactly is your argument?

[blueluvr]

As far as I understand turning ignition to off in any of my cars do not lock the steering unless the keys are pulled out. I may be mistaken though, but it's too late to go out and bother to check.....not that this has anything to do with the topic though

Any car towing a 1.6 tonne boat going up a hill is going to slow down

You don't drive a turbo falcon.....do you ;)

But I am sure what he is refering to is a feature designed to possibly be another failsafe for the cruise control. Just say all normal avenues of turning off a cruise has failed, how else does the designer of the system get it to shut off? by measuring the load, and if it becomes excessive, it shuts down. Hence how possibly both the handbrake and the force of the foot brake may have been what shut his faulty cruise off. Remember nobody is really arguing against that he may have had some problem shutting off the cruise by normal means. I think the problem lies in how he went about getting out of the situation.

[djjase]

Originally Posted by JC

Missed the point again, didn't we? Slowing down by 15km/h or more DISENGAGES the cruise control.



Correct (something you have written had to be right, eventually, didn't it?? Even a broken clock is right twice a day) - the steering only locks when you pull the keys out of the ignition, Chase.


So what? It's not something you can do while driving though, is it? There are around 58 fuses in the explorer engine bay, which ones did the guy in the states short out? What relevance does that even have to this issue (besides none). Why am I asking these questions?

Can a mod please move this thread from the pub to the Explorer section; if only to hide it from djjase?

I think your missing the point - his issue was that the cruise control was locked on and that he couldnt disengage it.

He also stated that when he first slammed the brakes on the car slowed down to about 80km and then took off again - so obviously it probably wasn't the cruise control that was stuck - maybe something else.

He also stated that now the brakes were hard - obviously after his first attempt at trying to stop the car - maybe it got overheated and failed.

His point was showing that a certain electrical failure could cause the car to throttle even while parked in parked, no cruise control - I'll find the video on it so you can watch it and maybe learn something

[JC]

Originally Posted by djjase

How long will your brakes last in this circumstance:

Driving at 100km/hr with the cruise control stuck or something else, you slam on your brakes but the car continues to go

I'd be guessing 54km.

You're still not getting it - just because the cruise failed (and let's concede that it did, just for the sake of argument), there are still 2 other options to stop the car and/or slow it down:
1. Turn key to Acc or Off.
2. Put gear selector in N (for Neutral).

Both of the above are not electronically controlled actions.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by djjase

How long will your brakes last in this circumstance:

Driving at 100km/hr with the cruise control stuck or something else, you slam on your brakes but the car continues to go

As its virtually impossible for the brakes not to overpower the engine at cruise throttle i'd be pretty hard pressed to find myself in the situation you describe.... ever...

Having said that I could either turn the ignition off or place the vehicle into neutral as either will remove the drive to the wheels I'm trying to slow.

Remember "Chase" that there was no mechanical fault found with the car...

[blueluvr]

Originally Posted by djjase

I think your missing the point - his issue was that the cruise control was locked on and that he couldnt disengage it.

He also stated that when he first slammed the brakes on the car slowed down to about 80km and then took off again - so obviously it probably wasn't the cruise control that was stuck - maybe something else.

He also stated that now the brakes were hard - obviously after his first attempt at trying to stop the car - maybe it got overheated and failed.

His point was showing that a certain electrical failure could cause the car to throttle even while parked in parked, no cruise control - I'll find the video on it so you can watch it and maybe learn something

No, he said he couldn't disengage it, that's the whole argument. There are many methods of bypassing a cruise control and he was even told about the gear lever or the ignition, but said that he was "locked out"

You keep gong on about fuse guy. As I said if you cross enough wires you can make anything happen.....within the elctrical system that is. It will have NO effect on the ability to move mechanically controlled levers.

Why do you still belive this guys story? I have explained and proven to you (as others have) how it was impossible to simultaniously have both a mechanical gear lever and a mechanical igniton lockout caused by a (possible) faulty cruise control. The fact is his story of events is so full of holes it isn't funny.

So the explorer might have a cruise control issue, this was NOT why this guy went on a crazed freeway trip. Lets not forget he drove onto the wrong side of the road........let me guess, the cruise control moved the steering wheel too?

[djjase]

Originally Posted by JC

I'd be guessing 54km.

You're still not getting it - just because the cruise failed (and let's concede that it did, just for the sake of argument), there are still 2 other options to stop the car and/or slow it down:
1. Turn key to Acc or Off.
2. Put gear selector in N (for Neutral).

Both of the above are not electronically controlled actions.

I am not debating that these should have or would have stopped the car

I am debating that the initial situation of it been stuck could have been caused by either cruise control or something else, that after trying to brake the brakes would feel very hard.

I don't know why he couldn't get it into neutral or to turn off the key - I wasn't in the car with him

He probably panicked and didn't do something, maybe he is full of crap and i don't really care about that.

My whole debate is around the fact that Ford has had these types of issues for years in the UK and US - sure in some of the circumstances those drivers got away from putting the car into neutral or turning the car off -

If you had an Explorer like he did and you could put it into Neutral or turn the car off then that probably proves that - it doesn't prove though what he may or may not have done

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by djjase

I am not debating that these should have or would have stopped the car

I am debating that the initial situation of it been stuck could have been caused by either cruise control or something else, that after trying to brake the brakes would feel very hard.

I don't know why he couldn't get it into neutral or to turn off the key - I wasn't in the car with him

He probably panicked and didn't do something, maybe he is full of crap and i don't really care about that.

My whole debate is around the fact that Ford has had these types of issues for years in the UK and US - sure in some of the circumstances those drivers got away from putting the car into neutral or turning the car off -

If you had an Explorer like he did and you could put it into Neutral or turn the car off then that probably proves that - it doesn't prove though what he may or may not have done

As it has been proven that you can place a 2002 Ford Explorer into neutral and turn the ignition to 'ACC' even when the cruise control is engaged, please explain for everyone here why your even posting in this thread?????

[djjase]

Originally Posted by blueluvr

No, he said he couldn't disengage it, that's the whole argument. There are many methods of bypassing a cruise control and he was even told about the gear lever or the ignition, but said that he was "locked out"

You keep gong on about fuse guy. As I said if you cross enough wires you can make anything happen.....within the elctrical system that is. It will have NO effect on the ability to move mechanically controlled levers.

Why do you still belive this guys story? I have explained and proven to you (as others have) how it was impossible to simultaniously have both a mechanical gear lever and a mechanical igniton lockout caused by a (possible) faulty cruise control. The fact is his story of events is so full of holes it isn't funny.

So the explorer might have a cruise control issue, this was NOT why this guy went on a crazed freeway trip. Lets not forget he drove onto the wrong side of the road........let me guess, the cruise control moved the steering wheel too?

Who knows maybe something got stuck in the gear lever section, maybe he had a bottle of water stuck it down and it stopped the gear lever from moving.

Sure I agree that it sounds extremely highly unlikely that the 3 things would all do that - I agree the chances of this happening is like 1 in a billion and maybe that was the billion - who knows

Freak things do happen and I am not just talking about xdc351 but there was a death once on the M4 where a truck on one side of the freeway going west lost a wheel nut, came off and went straight threw the window of a car on the other side traveling east and killed them - now that was a freak probably 1 in a million

[blueluvr]

Mate, you're out of fuel here bigtime and doing some serious sly back pedalling now

You went from this:

Ford USA has been hiding issues about cruise control for years. Some guy over there proved by shorting out a fuse it would do exactly what this car did.

to this:

My whole debate is around the fact that Ford has had these types of issues for years in the UK and US sure in some of the circumstances those drivers got away from putting the car into neutral or turning the car off -

Right remember what you just said. Those drivers got away from it by turning off the key and or finding neautral. Bit different from stating in your first post that this EXACT same thing happened before. Truth is nothing EXACTLY like this HAS happened before to an explorer has it?

Sure, it appears they do have some cruise control issue, but they don't have mechanical failsafe lockout of the vehicle, and THAT is the point here. The reason I know this is because by design, it physically can not happen, end of story.

[blueluvr]

Originally Posted by djjase

Sure I agree that it sounds extremely highly unlikely that the 3 things would all do that - I agree the chances of this happening is like 1 in a billion and maybe that was the billion - who knows

Freak things do happen and I am not just talking about xdc351 but there was a death once on the M4 where a truck on one side of the freeway going west lost a wheel nut, came off and went straight threw the window of a car on the other side traveling east and killed them - now that was a freak probably 1 in a million

The bolt coming off happened because it is possible for it to occur.

It's not extremely unlikely for the guy to have had what he claims to have happen, it is impossible. There are no odds for the complete lockout situation we are speaking of because it can not happen. Not a billion to one, not a googlplex to one. There are no odds because it did not happen. Why can't you simply believe that????

[djjase]

Originally Posted by blueluvr

The bolt coming off happened because it is possible for it to occur.

It's not extremely unlikely for the guy to have had what he claims to have happen, it is impossible. There are no odds for the complete lockout situation we are speaking of because it can not happen. Not a billion to one, not a googlplex to one. There are no odds because it did not happen. Why can't you simply believe that????

So your saying that

(1) Cruise control can't lock on
(2) That his brakes can't fail
(3) That the gear lever wouldnt move
(4) The keys wouldn't turn off

So your basically saying that in point 2 - the lever can never come away from the gearbox or a pin can break

So your basically saying that in point 3 - the keys can't get stuck

Why is it that you can't believe that this could happen? every part that had to do with this is prone to failure - where ever there is moving parts there is a possibility even if one in a trillion that something can go wrong

[blueluvr]

Originally Posted by djjase

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CAR BEEN PUT INTO NEUTRAL OR TURNING IT OFF

But you did just that when you stated that this has happened twice now, and this one makes it three. EXACTLY the same, means EXACTLY the same problem. It wasn't EXACTLY the same problem at all. There is a dictionary on the meaning of this word right here

And maybe it is you who needs the bigger screen as all along no one here (especially me) is arguing that there may be a prob with the cruise control, but his claims that the mechanical lockouts he claims simultaniously occured physically can not happen. You come in and say that other cars have had the EXACT same problem (and you can not deny this as you did state this)

[djjase]

Originally Posted by blueluvr

But you did just that when you stated that this has happened twice now, and this one makes it three. EXACTLY the same, means EXACTLY the same problem. It wasn't EXACTLY the same problem at all. There is a dictionary on the meaning of this word right here

And maybe it is you who needs the bigger screen as all along no one here (especially me) is arguing that there may be a prob with the cruise control, but his claims that the mechanical lockouts he claims simultaniously occured physically can not happen. You come in and say that other cars have had the EXACT same problem (and you can not deny this as you did state this)

Well thens it just been a miss understanding - I have been going on about the cruise control or the motor throttle sticking -

When it came to the gear lever and keys - i stated that when I said someone with an explorer can only prove that in normal circumstances you can put it into neutral or turn the car off.

I do remember a XP coupe I had that was a 3 on the tree, I was driving and the pin came out just as I had to change gears - no syncos on that gearbox was fun to drive - lots of double clutching.

When I said EXACT issue I was referring to the cruise control/sticking issue.

There was basically a few issues - the cruise, the brakes, the gear lever, the keys

All along that is all I have been referring too, nothing to do with gear levers or keys

[djjase]

Ok, when it comes to the 3 things happening at the same time, sure it is highly unlikely that it could happen, but it doesn't rule out that something could happen.

The old saying "If it goes up it must come down" applies - there is a possible although highly unlikely that all 3 options failed at one or some time during his journey

Maybe they failed individually at the time he tried it - does he state that he tried to do all at the same time?

Would be good to hear his conversations he had with Ford and the Copper to try and gauge what he was asked to do

[blueluvr]

Originally Posted by djjase

So your saying that

(1) Cruise control can't lock on
(2) That his brakes can't fail
(3) That the gear lever wouldnt move
(4) The keys wouldn't turn off

So your basically saying that in point 2 - the lever can never come away from the gearbox or a pin can break

So your basically saying that in point 3 - the keys can't get stuck

Why is it that you can't believe that this could happen? every part that had to do with this is prone to failure - where ever there is moving parts there is a possibility even if one in a trillion that something can go wrong

oh man this is starting to hurt......

you seem to forget that when inspected by crash investigators there were NO faults with the car. If something broke like your pin example don't you think it would stay broke?

you have to remember what this guy claimed. He claimed that at the same time the cruise would not turn off, that was when the gear lever and ignition were locked in their positions, then when the car finally did disengage from the cruise and he stopped, all his control over the ger lever and ignition were returned to normal. This is what I am saying is BS and can not physically happen as the crusie control has no ruling control over either the switch or the gear lever.

and I never said that any of your points can not happen, I said what he claimed can not happen....but finally I give up mate.
Trying to explain this to you is like trying to convince my 5 year old he shouldn't eat too many lollies at once......he just doesn't get it, no matter how logical and concise I tried to be

[chevypower]

Yeah to have all of them fail at the same time, then recover again and operate as normal sounds a bit sus.
I think the likely scenario is the cruise control locked on, and he panicked. The brakes would have become useless in that scenario, but I don't believe it was impossible to shut the engine off or shift out of drive.
The only other likely scenarios are either:
1. The guy just wanted attention
2. The guy was an idiot, doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't deserve a drivers license anyway.

[burnz]

explorer and bronco have both had problems with sticking throttle.
drivers in the U.S. have complained that their throttle is sticking closed making the car hard to park,
as it suddenly free's the car launches forward.
others complained of it sticking open, one motorist had to lift the accererator with his foot to return the car to idle position.
their is nothing wrong with the cruise control, but when disengauged the throttle stays open and ppl think it's the cruise control.

the cause of the problen: the return pipe of the P.C.V. valve is located behind the butterfly of said vehicle, causeing buildup that interfears with the operation of the throttle.
in warranty terms ford is replacing the throttle body, out of warranty fix is carby cleaner to remove the buildup.

[Dave_Obsession]

Wow this thread is hilarious!

Can't wait to see what the mods say when they read this....

This has certainly made for a very entertaining start to my Saturday!

[russellw]

Ok - I have wasted an hour split the rubbish out from this thread and restored it but let me warn the protaganists that any further off topic posting or breaches of the site T&C will result in warnings and bans.

Regards
Russ

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by djjase

Why don't u go for a drive down the freeway, keep your foot on the accelerator and brake at the same time - i bet you won't stop too good

I know from experience that the car will stop, I had my foot flat on the accelerator and my instructor with all his weight on the brakes and the car did come to a stop, it took a while but it still pulled up the car to a complete stop, the ABS kicked in at the very last few seconds, so the brakes can actually pull up a car at WOT, it'll take a bit longer but it can still stop it with no problems.

With regards to worked 351 and stuck open throttle, I bet on the same car with stock engine/brakes they'll still pull it up, if you work the engine, you should get better brakes.

[Full Noise]

Here’s a link to the 3AW interview.

Cheers


http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-gene...0107-lwdl.html

[JC]

Originally Posted by burnz

explorer and bronco have both had problems with sticking throttle.
drivers in the U.S. have complained that their throttle is sticking closed making the car hard to park,
as it suddenly free's the car launches forward.
others complained of it sticking open, one motorist had to lift the accererator with his foot to return the car to idle position.
their is nothing wrong with the cruise control, but when disengauged the throttle stays open and ppl think it's the cruise control.

the cause of the problen: the return pipe of the P.C.V. valve is located behind the butterfly of said vehicle, causeing buildup that interfears with the operation of the throttle.
in warranty terms ford is replacing the throttle body, out of warranty fix is carby cleaner to remove the buildup.

2002+ explorers have fly by wire throttle, so no cable to get stuck. Butterfly could still stick, but police found NOTHING mechanically wrong with the car. the issue was the nut behind the wheel, full stop.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by JC

The issue was the nut behind the wheel, full stop.

One of the problems with this clown is that he’s trying to use emotion over logic and it just doesn’t work.

Dare I say that the good majority of people who support this fool have little to no idea of how motor vehicles actually work, including Peter Maher, the bloke on 3AW interviewing him.

I have been quite vocal on 3AW criticising this fool, so I must thank them for the Bertocci ham and the concert tickets I won while doing so.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

One of the problems with this clown is that he’s trying to use emotion over logic and it just doesn’t work.

Dare I say that the good majority of people who support this fool have little to no idea of how motor vehicles actually work, including Peter Maher, the bloke on 3AW interviewing him.

Agreed 100%

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I have been quite vocal on 3AW criticising this fool, so I must thank them for the Bertocci ham and the concert tickets I won while doing so.

They say there's a silver cloud to every lining (or rearrange to make your own sense of that!); congrats on the wins, and well done for ringing in!

[Bobman]

So the brake shoe snapped? I take it that's the handbrake shoe as they have discs in the back.

The "police had trouble getting the gear shift to move" was probably the same type of folks who have no idea. I've dealt with tow truck drivers who forcibly tugged a car onto the truck when it was in park because they didn't know you had to put your foot on the brake to move it into neutral. :

[Airmon]

"The left shoe of the handbrake had snapped..due to the force of me pulling it on to stop the car"

Then:

"when they mentioned the brakes that clearly showed I was trying to stop the car..imagine what would have happened if I had pulled the handbrake at 100 with the left shoe snapping".

So, when he finally stopped the car the shoe snapped, which proves that he was actually trying to stop the car.... 45minutes later in front of a news crew

[4Vman]

So how did he manage to stop it???