So is it the end of the Holden??

[svo supporter]

There was mention in the Adelaide Advertiser about the 103 Million dollars Ford received to keep the plant going in Geelong. They also mentioned something along the lines of only 93 (don't quote that figure) FG's being sold last year.

So yes the Gov't is proping both camps up to keep jobs in this country.

And they also mentioned Holden may downsize the workforce in the plant, to help it become more economically viable.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

And they also mentioned Holden may downsize the workforce in the plant, to help it become more economically viable.

I believe this to be the keystone to any future longevity of the industry, downsizing the workforce to become competitive as opposed to culling the lot in one action and packing up.
Once its gone, theres no turning back.

[jpd80]

I've heard a tiny whisper that Ford might be starting to ramp up some LPG production, can anybody confirm this?

Can Ford start filling in those quiet January and February months with some solid fleet orders?

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I must admit though, some of the guys are getting rediculous hourly rates which doesnt help the bottom dollar.
A good mate works in the paint shop wet rubbing imperfections and he told me he was doing 12hr shifts at around $95hr over the last couple of months.

Exactly. How many would take a pay cut to keep their jobs? Let's face it, labour in the developing countries is much cheaper than here. We have so many things like penalty rates, leave entitlements that cost employers so much. It really is a no brainer for these companies to relocate. Let's hope not for the sake of Australian manufacturing and the workers.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

There was mention in the Adelaide Advertiser about the 103 Million dollars Ford received to keep the plant going in Geelong. They also mentioned something along the lines of only 93 (don't quote that figure) FG's being sold last year.
So yes the Gov't is propping both camps up to keep jobs in this country.

Unfortunately VFacts don't provide anything other than combined numbers for LPG sales but we can apply some deductive reasoning.

In 2009 (the last time a Ford LPG option was available for the full year) there were 6,216 passenger and 4,257 light commercial new vehicle sales with LPG. We knew, from insider information, that around 4,000 of those light commercial sales came from the e-Gas utes.

In 2010 those numbers dropped to 4,957 sedans and 2,997 light commercials and it is not unreasonable to assume that most of those light commercial sales came from the e-gas utes.

For 2011, the numbers were 1,610 passenger vehicles and 1,472 light commercials and if we apply much the same logic I can't see how the 93 figure could come into play.

Originally Posted by jpd80

PS, my figures on FG build numbers came from Russell's. tech resources...

That's not insider knowledge, that's just simple deduction from information everyone else can see.....

Which is precisely what well researched posts are about!

Cheers
Russ

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I've heard a tiny whisper that Ford might be starting to ramp up some LPG production, can anybody confirm this?

Can Ford start filling in those quiet January and February months with some solid fleet orders?

Not sure on that, but will this not impact on the ecoboost sales which from where i sit seems to be the direction they want to go in terms of fleet sales.

I haven't kept up to date with the details, but isnt it also due early this year?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Exactly. How many would take a pay cut to keep their jobs? Let's face it, labour in the developing countries is much cheaper than here. We have so many things like penalty rates, leave entitlements that cost employers so much. It really is a no brainer for these companies to relocate. Let's hope not for the sake of Australian manufacturing and the workers.

In there lies the problem i believe.

It would certainly be easy for GM to shift production to a area where manufacturing can be at a much reduced cost.
For us its a critical point as our competitors are just over the horizon making us unique to our part of the world in that we command huge salaries and entitlements whilst our neighbours will work for peanuts.

It wouldnt be too expensive to build in asia and export to us.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by russellw

Unfortunately VFacts don't provide anything other than combined numbers for LPG sales but we can apply some deductive reasoning.

In 2009 (the last time a Ford LPG option was available for the full year) there were 6,216 passenger and 4,257 light commercial new vehicle sales with LPG. We knew, from insider information, that around 4,000 of those light commercial sales came from the e-Gas utes.

In 2010 those numbers dropped to 4,957 sedans and 2,997 light commercials and it is not unreasonable to assume that most of those light commercial sales came from the e-gas utes.

For 2011, the numbers were 1,610 passenger vehicles and 1,472 light commercials and if we apply much the same logic I can't see how the 93 figure could come into play.

I'm a believer in " give business what it want and they will buy your product"
Conservatively, 35 LPG vehicles a day x 20 day month x 10 full months =7,000 vehicles.
How about similar maths for the Ecoboost Falcon which gives another 7,000 vehicles

That would be an increase of 14,000 vehicles per year, almost like another line...

Am I dreaming?

Which is precisely what well researched posts are about!

Cheers
Russ

Thanks Russ, that means a lot.....

[just_pazz]

There was a report on The Project last night on the state of the auto manufacturing industry. They reported a figure of 59,000 jobs directly reliant on it and they also claim another 6 jobs indirectly reliant in supporting industries for every job directly created by this industry.

They also reported that Ford received $34 million in assistance from the federal government and the rest was coughed up by Ford Motor Co. itself.

Here is the link if anyone is interested, report starts about 6.50 into the video.

http://theprojecttv.com.au/video.htm...video_m=154786

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm a believer in " give business what it want and they will buy your product". Conservatively, 35 LPG vehicles a day x 20 day month x 10 full months =7,000 vehicles. How about similar maths for the Ecoboost Falcon which gives another 7,000 vehicles

That would be an increase of 14,000 vehicles per year, almost like another line...

Am I dreaming?


Thanks Russ, that means a lot.....

You could be dreaming There will be some substitution from sure. How much is the question. Even if it was a large amount of 50% there is 7000 sales to be had which is 35% gain on 2011 sales.

P.s. keep up your posts!

[Paxton]

Let's not forget that most of the eGas sales were Wagons...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I've heard a tiny whisper that Ford might be starting to ramp up some LPG production, can anybody confirm this?

Can Ford start filling in those quiet January and February months with some solid fleet orders?

I hope so, nothing like improved sales to shut a few people up!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Let's not forget that most of the eGas sales were Wagons...

BFIII wagon with FGII front nose clip, engine and trans....runs away quickly

Seriously, that is one flaw with the plan, a lot of LPG sales were wagons
and I'm wondering just how much it's loss now stunts growth....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Let's not forget that most of the eGas sales were Wagons...

Yeah most eGas were wagons and utes

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I hope so, nothing like improved sales to shut a few people up!!!

nope, they will just find something else.

[uranium_death]

Just want to say I really enjoyed the posts...was good reading. Thanks to all.

I read a bit at LS1 and a lot of really bad posts there that I simply could not a agree with...such as Holden selling larger numbers = Holden don't need government assistance etc.

On the other hand, there are some great posts that aren't based purely on hysteria.

I think that passion sometimes runs very deep but in the end, we all want a vehicle that we can be proud of and that we cannot survive without the other.

I'd love to look back on this thread in 2-3 years time and see what actually does come to fruition...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I've heard a tiny whisper that Ford might be starting to ramp up some LPG production, can anybody confirm this?

Can Ford start filling in those quiet January and February months with some solid fleet orders?

They already have ramped up LPi.

They may have something in the works for ute too, I can only guess, it may be an RTV version, or something specifically suited to tradies. It was just a whisper but we will know soon enough.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They already have ramped up LPi.

They may have something in the works for ute too, I can only guess, it may be an RTV version, or something specifically suited to tradies. It was just a whisper but we will know soon enough.

Oh wow, really?After waiting 4 years, its back?

[Road_Warrior]

Could just be a tradesman pack, more likely than an RTV as it will be cheaper to roll out.

[Luke Plaizier]

The ute is in need of some extra stickers.....


Lukeyson

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Oh wow, really?After waiting 4 years, its back?

Maybe. Just heard one tonne, LPi, something about springs, suit tradesman. Could be anything really. I think it will be a regular model, not an SVP.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Maybe. Just heard one tonne, LPi, something about springs, suit tradesman. Could be anything really. I think it will be a regular model, not an SVP.

About time if it happens base Falcon utes are too low for tradespeople to take seriously, too bad mine is arriving next month....sigh haha.

[Luke Plaizier]

So have we heard anything about the Holden 'package' yet, or after all these days are they still in negotiations?

If the negotiations are still ongoing, then surely, there must be some issue now with the values being thrown around? With the threats to shut Holden down, perhaps theres some sort of brinkmanship going on?


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Found an update here

Carr has to fly back to Oz to seek approval from the cabinet. GM has to hold a special board meeting.

Didn't they empower these people at the negotiating table? Or is this GM deal so ad-hoc that it was all made up on the fly?


Lukeyson

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by just_pazz

There was a report on The Project last night on the state of the auto manufacturing industry. They reported a figure of 59,000 jobs directly reliant on it and they also claim another 6 jobs indirectly reliant in supporting industries for every job directly created by this industry.

There was a guy being interviewed on RN at about 1:45 yesterday who was saying that only 14,000 jobs are directly involved in manufacturing in australia and about 60,000 indirectly. He was harping on about 'waste' of money propping up australian car industry, and wanted the govt to undertake some sort of cost benefit for the money being spent on it (including the green car fund, etc). He never once mentioned that every other country subsidises their car industry.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Paxton

But Chairman Rudd and Auntie Joolia paid for the Cruze to come to Australia, so the net cost to Holden was not a great deal. That being said, has anyone seen a Cruze hatch on the road? I've seen more LPI Falcons.

If I didn't know better I would have thought they were the only Australian govt to provide financial assistance to the car industry. On one hand the Labor govt are bagged for the Button plan and on the other for providing assistance.

Every govt sees the benefit of 'some' assistance for certain industries whilst ensuring they continue to improve efficiency. The conservative side of politics in Aust is no different to the progressive side in this regard (and most others as well).

And pls don't confuse this as political point scoring - it is just a fact of our history, like it or not.

****

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

There was a guy being interviewed on RN at about 1:45 yesterday who was saying that only 14,000 jobs are directly involved in manufacturing in australia and about 60,000 indirectly. He was harping on about 'waste' of money propping up australian car industry, and wanted the govt to undertake some sort of cost benefit for the money being spent on it (including the green car fund, etc). He never once mentioned that every other country subsidises their car industry.

I have no idea who the guy was (whether he was an expert or just someone who had something to say) as i never saw the report, but 14,000 sounds about right. If that is correct, then it conflicts quite alot with the experts like Holdens Deveraux and Kim Carr who wants us all to beleive that 60,000 are directly employed in the industry, thus justifying to extraordinary amount of money spent to support so few jobs. As for the other 60,000 jobs that it indirectly supports, that may be true also, but you need to remember that the guy who has a job selling sandwiches at lunch time to the salesman at the Holden dealer will still be employed when Holden go under. He's just going to be selling sandwiches to the salesman at the Hyundai dealer (and will probably end up being the same salesman).

As for every other car making country protecting their industries more than australia. Well firstly we have to remember that this bit of information comes from the same people that say the car industry in australia directly employs 60,000 people (so very doubtful to start with), so he may not have mentioned it because he wanted to stay with facts. Secondly, more in dollar terms may not necessary mean more per car made. Japan would have to be spending around $25 billion dollars a year, to be subsidising their auto makers to the same extent we do per car made.

[sirweasle]

as said a thousand times... ford and holden need each other in aus... but fords on its way out anyway... no more falcon or territory in the near future!? With-out those cars, whats ford australia?

[max_torq]

They will still be locally adapting imported LHD cars, as well as designing cars that are made in asian factories. The imported cars will still have to supported by local dealers, workshops and parts distributors.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I have no idea who the guy was (whether he was an expert or just someone who had something to say) as i never saw the report, but 14,000 sounds about right. If that is correct, then it conflicts quite alot with the experts like Holdens Deveraux and Kim Carr who wants us all to beleive that 60,000 are directly employed in the industry, thus justifying to extraordinary amount of money spent to support so few jobs. As for the other 60,000 jobs that it indirectly supports, that may be true also, but you need to remember that the guy who has a job selling sandwiches at lunch time to the salesman at the Holden dealer will still be employed when Holden go under. He's just going to be selling sandwiches to the salesman at the Hyundai dealer (and will probably end up being the same salesman).

As for every other car making country protecting their industries more than australia. Well firstly we have to remember that this bit of information comes from the same people that say the car industry in australia directly employs 60,000 people (so very doubtful to start with), so he may not have mentioned it because he wanted to stay with facts. Secondly, more in dollar terms may not necessary mean more per car made. Japan would have to be spending around $25 billion dollars a year, to be subsidising their auto makers to the same extent we do per car made.

Unless you can prove your own facts (which you have not done in this post), is it very very very hypocritical to say someone elses numbers are wrong & yours are right all in the same post!!!