EcoBoost G6E beats Merc E-Class and Audi A6 4cyls

[Peuty]

Either way, it's still regarded as being in the mid size class, so the 5 Series would be the BMW to compare it with.

As to why they didn't add a 5 Series to the comparo, I don't know!

[BHDOGS]

Kudos to the Eco boost for beating them definatly a world class car

[superfly]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Either way, it's still regarded as being in the mid size class, so the 5 Series would be the BMW to compare it with.

As to why they didn't add a 5 Series to the comparo, I don't know!

It would've been another scalp to add to the list

[RASER]

Originally Posted by imugli

Guys,

Caught the current edition of Motor last night with G6E vs A6 vs E-Class 4cyls and G6E was pretty surprised to see G6E come out on top!

Now, I take what Motor and Wheels say with a grain of salt, but this is a pretty good win regardless...

Well done to the FoA boys!

Wins what?

What a [very] stupid range of vehicles to compare

I am sure [NOT] every A6 AUDI [AutoUnion] and E-Class Benz buyer is going to cross-shop with a Falcon [again, NOT]

They would/may look at a BMW and a Lexus, that would be it.

What next, Gucci, Armani, Versace buyers shopping at Kmart?

The Falcon ONLY compares with the Commodore and Aurion [nee Avalon] luxo models.

It just shows you the Aussie cars are WAY overpriced, and if the imports did'nt have to pay the luxury tax, tariff etc and other importer charges, together with the $100's of millions GovCo give them, Falcodore would be dead and buried long ago.

What next, a Fiat500 v's a Ferrari 458 Italia?

Motor rags are finished.

[Franco Cozzo]

Its not neccessarily luxury car tax, import tarrif and GST which makes the cost of BMW/Lexus etc very expensive, its the fact that those companies know they can charge Australians that much money for their product and they still buy it.

I like to call it the "Australia Tax".

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by RASER

Wins what?

What a [very] stupid range of vehicles to compare

I am sure [NOT] every A6 AUDI [AutoUnion] and E-Class Benz buyer is going to cross-shop with a Falcon [again, NOT]

They would/may look at a BMW and a Lexus, that would be it.

The Falcon ONLY compares with the Commodore and Aurion [nee Avalon] luxo models.

It just shows you the Aussie cars are WAY overpriced, and if the imports did'nt have to pay the luxury tax, tariff etc and other importer charges, together with the $100's of millions GovCo give them, Falcodore would be dead and buried long ago.

What next, a Fiat500 v's a Ferrari 458 Italia?

Motor rags are finished.

I assume you have read the article?
When they conduct these tests they are aware that those vehicles are marketed at different buyer groups.
The point of the test was not a direct comparison as such but to prove that the 4 cylinder engine in a big car works. Mercedes, BMW and Audi have been doing it for years and now Ford are doing it with the Falcon.
They use the Germans as bench marks, obviously the Falcon as an overall package is not a scratch on the German marques but the drivetrain works and does quite well.
It is to prove to the public that would buy a Falcon that even the Germans do it and it does work.

[bigwil]

I don't mind seeing the falcon getting compared to a Merc and an Audi and coming out on top, just goes to show what an awesome car the falcon is.
A Merc buyer probably wont consider a falcon, there loss

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by RASER

Wins what?

What a [very] stupid range of vehicles to compare

I am sure [NOT] every A6 AUDI [AutoUnion] and E-Class Benz buyer is going to cross-shop with a Falcon [again, NOT]

They would/may look at a BMW and a Lexus, that would be it.

The Falcon ONLY compares with the Commodore and Aurion [nee Avalon] luxo models.

It just shows you the Aussie cars are WAY overpriced, and if the imports did'nt have to pay the luxury tax, tariff etc and other importer charges, together with the $100's of millions GovCo give them, Falcodore would be dead and buried long ago.

What next, a Fiat500 v's a Ferrari 458 Italia?

Motor rags are finished.

Give it up mate!!!

What is does show this that the Falcon is VERY GOOD VALUE for money. I’m not sure how you get way over priced? It does show that a car that costs way less is on par with cars that are way more!! They are very very similar cars in terms of size, space & engine size, they are only separated by price. And the Falcon is on the cheap side of it!!

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not neccessarily luxury car tax, import tarrif and GST which makes the cost of BMW/Lexus etc very expensive, its the fact that those companies know they can charge Australians that much money for their product and they still buy it.

I like to call it the "Australia Tax".

Whats wrong with companies charging punters what they will pay.

Those German cars/brands most likely cost no more to manufacture than the Falcodores, its all in the brand-name, labels, marketing etc

Yes, we get ripped in Australia, but in all honesty the difference is getting smaller and smaller on lots of items to anywhere elses price in the world, you can thank the internet, ebay and alike for that

[imugli]

Is there an opportunity for Ford to raise the EcoBoost's cache by altering the nomenclature to G4/G6/G6E/G4E Turbo/G6E Turbo?

2 Turbos topping out the range...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I don’t agree with 20-25 day as the target per day. They said they were excepting to sell 250 each month. So, 250/4.2 weeks/ 5 days = 12 per day.. Whilst 4 is crap, I still think it is way too early to call it "failed". Especially when you consider no advertising has been done for it. It might have been a different story if Ford did a massive amount of advertising for it.

With regards to LPI.. It has taken 12 months to get to that stage (thanks to Ford no advertising policy). Most on here were calling LPI "fail" about 6 months ago...

We're only working 4 day weeks, so say 16 working days which roughly equals 15 a day, so I was a bit off, but still 4 a day is roughly a quarter of that.

LPi production has been constant of 20-25 per day to start with and has peaked up to 30 odd at various times. Its never been a fail, despite what some fools thought. LPG tank supply issues had a hand in keeping those numbers down as the supplier had issues that dragged on for a long time.

The reason LPi never reached the highs the old E Gas did is mostly because there is no wagon anymore, and LPG made up about 95% of wagon builds. Thats a fair chunk of LPG engine builds to lose.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We're only working 4 day weeks, so say 16 working days which roughly equals 15 a day, so I was a bit off, but still 4 a day is roughly a quarter of that.

LPi production has been constant of 20-25 per day to start with and has peaked up to 30 odd at various times. Its never been a fail, despite what some fools thought. LPG tank supply issues had a hand in keeping those numbers down as the supplier had issues that dragged on for a long time.

The reason LPi never reached the highs the old E Gas did is mostly because there is no wagon anymore, and LPG made up about 95% of wagon builds. Thats a fair chunk of LPG engine builds to lose.

Hey Boss,
Are you guys building any Territory I-6 engines lately?

[Bossxr8]

About 30 a day roughly. Has increased a little over the past few months.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

About 30 a day roughly. Has increased a little over the past few months.

Thanks,
I asked because i was wondering whether diesel sales had peaked
and if so, perhaps Ford is slowly ramping up I-6 for added volume..

It's sad that Ecoboost is not being supported more with either advertising or product volume at dealers.,
seems to be a complete waste of effort designing the thing if y're not gonna push it in the market.
I bet Holden wouldn't sit back with an "Ecoboost" Commodore and say, "there ya go..."

[Swordie]

interesting the article thinks the EcoBoost is detuned. Ford doesn't want to put XR6 drivers noses out of place.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by imugli

Is there an opportunity for Ford to raise the EcoBoost's cache by altering the nomenclature to G4/G6/G6E/G4E Turbo/G6E Turbo?

2 Turbos topping out the range...

"G4E Turbo" is redundant as EcoBoost is already a turbo.

There's absolutely no point whatsoever in a change of nomenclature.

[bmorris]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Can't exactly blame the government.....

Private buyers have never purchased that many Falcons, and typically novated buyers are staying clear of them now too, and have been for some time, the changes to FBT haven't killed the Falcon, people are still buying cars....

The only ones buying Falcon's now is Hertz (rentals) and some government agencies, like state police. Theres a few companies like Boral who still buy them too but its not like they run 1,000's of them. Lease plan etc buy alot less then they use to because all the fleet operators wanted a 4 cylinder only policy. Now Ford has a 4 cylinder available but fleets have moved to other brands, like Toyota. The only way Ford will get these kinds of buyers back is to build a 4 cylinder Falcon at around 26 kay for them including onroads / stat costs (what they buy a 4 cylinder Camry for).



Perhaps Ford need to go this way instead of selling XR6's for 32 kay, bump the price of them back up and guts the XT pricing and really push XT EB4 (perhaps even delete XT 6 cylinder)> (something that they have not done since BA Mark 1 days). Ford dream't up the theory of converting all their fleet customers to XR6's to try and better the brand image of their cars, which pretty much shot them in the foot, especially with resale value etc. Toyota don't sell heaps of Camry's but 95% of them go to large fleet customers, that must tell Ford something.

This is exactly the same thing I have been thinking lately, ford really need to do something about volume. I know people on here are big supporters of "high profitability" models and many of those people are some of the most constructive members of this forum, but anyone in business knows you need volume to survive, you need cash flow. The thing that will keep ford making cars in Australia is cars down the line.

Something like a stripped out xt eb falcon to really target fleets would be a great start. I know there wouldn't be much money in it but it would gets numbers going again and look good in the stats and get spirits up again. Over time it will help keep the falcon going past 2016.

[IDT]

Its pretty simple, none of us know for sure who the target market for Falcon are anymore. One minute they say this group to some media goon then the next they say something else to another.

Here in WA I am left staggered at how pathetic marketing is. Everything in WA revolves around Perth. All the big players are smack bang in the city centre. All of their staff, including the white collars, go down to the city mall for lunch every single day and walk through it from one office building to another outside of the midday meal break. Now what would it cost to put the whole ford fleet on display in the mall? Do it for a week straight with a sales guy on every car. Stick it under their noses! But hey, thats just one of many marketing ideas I have seen on this forum and some have been brilliant and yet I have not seen a single idea picked up so...............
Ford marketing pffffft

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by bmorris

Something like a stripped out xt eb falcon to really target fleets would be a great start. I know there wouldn't be much money in it but it would gets numbers going again and look good in the stats and get spirits up again. Over time it will help keep the falcon going past 2016.

What can you strip from an XT? Air conditioning? Electric windows? In this day and age, buyers expect a high level of standard equipment. There's no reason why an EcoBoost should be any less well equipped than their I6 counterparts, nor is there any reason to create a new base model that lacks the equipment its competitors have.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bmorris

Something like a stripped out xt eb falcon to really target fleets would be a great start. I know there wouldn't be much money in it but it would gets numbers going again and look good in the stats and get spirits up again. Over time it will help keep the falcon going past 2016.

Problem is that fleets won't even look at Falcon or Commodore anymore, market is moving away from big sedans.
Imagine what Commodore sedan sales numbers would be like without Sportwagon boosting the numbers.
This isn't just Ford...both manufacturers have to think of ways to cope with this and grow sales.

[Brazen]

4 cylinder Falcon should be 28,990. If they couldn't do it at that price then Focus should of been built here.

Falcon would become instantly credible overnight to small car and small SUV owners.

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I assume you have read the article?
When they conduct these tests they are aware that those vehicles are marketed at different buyer groups.
The point of the test was not a direct comparison as such but to prove that the 4 cylinder engine in a big car works. Mercedes, BMW and Audi have been doing it for years and now Ford are doing it with the Falcon.
They use the Germans as bench marks, obviously the Falcon as an overall package is not a scratch on the German marques but the drivetrain works and does quite well.
It is to prove to the public that would buy a Falcon that even the Germans do it and it does work.

Good on you wretched, I even upload the article and some people still don't read it and understand the reasoning!

That's the trouble on a forum, comments made before even looking into what the thread is about!

[RedHotGT]

Wow - i'm staggered at the difference of opinion on what I thought was a pretty even comparison.

They were all 4cyl luxury sedans, approx the same weight and specifications. Wasn't like they were comparing the G6E to a 7-Series BMW or a C63 Benz?

The major factory for me was the price - the G6E was nearly 1/2 the price of the European cars. Which - if I was buying with my money - would make me seriously consider the G6E and weigh up whether the shortcomings that it has are balanced by the savings.

Personally, I've been a pretty harsh critic of some of the articles featured in Motor/Wheels over the years - though this one didn't really engage by BS meter at all. Sure a couple of silly throw away lines were included (like reminding us that a 15-16sec 1/4 mile was fast 20 years ago - big deal) but I really thought the rest of it was pretty good, pretty fair, and pretty straight forward.

I'm not even the target market - but it made me want to think about checking out the local dealer to make my own decision.

[Brazen]

Motor and Wheels have always been very fair on the Falcon, its just that most butthurt members on here cant stand to hear any criticism on Ford or Falcon, no matter how fair it is.

[redman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

...
LPi makes up at least 25% of I6 builds, so its doing ok, its actually the only engine that has a waiting list.
...

Man, do I know about the LPI wait list. It took nearly 5 months to get my EcoLPI G6E. I've had it for four weeks and 3,200km now and it is just fantastic.

The boys and girls at Ford Australia have produced two world firsts in these cars; the only OEM liquid phase injected LPG fueled engine and the only RWD EcoBOOST four. Congratulations folks.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They were all autos.. the Audi / Merc were both 7 speeds. Both slower then the Falcon, and also pulled up slower then the Falcon...

There needs to be alot more said about the Ecoboost Falcon, in particular the G6E... If you ask me its a world class car let down by a few shortcomings.

That there needs to be an ad. But those Germans don't like being picked on. Maybe FoA are scared of any retaliation?

They have nothing to lose. "Out performed an Audi and a Merc." - This will make people do a double take and say "What the f...?"

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Swordie

interesting the article thinks the EcoBoost is detuned. Ford doesn't want to put XR6 drivers noses out of place.

In reality it isn't, the highest spec version so far will be in the Focus ST and that only makes a couple of kws more than in Falcon. 179 Vs 184kw?

[DFB FGXR6]

The article suggested the EcoBoost's version of the ZF seemed to be tuned to shift slower on full throttle compared to the Inline 6 to slow it down a bit

[Polyal]

Did anyone read the article in the carsguide?

God they are idiots...all this praise for the car and in the byline they say "awesome car blah blah blah...pity about the resale".

WTF...how do they have any idea of what the resale of this car will be and like its going to be much worse than any other NEW car.

Absolutely no need to say it, and its not referenced at all in the rest of the article..is it so hard to have a piece on the Falcon where they dont lay the boot in...terds.

The end.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Did anyone read the article in the carsguide?
and its not referenced at all in the rest of the article

It was referenced later in the article. They stated the estimated 3 year resale value with 60,000km on the clock. Don't remember the source and I don't buy the Hun to have it in front of me, but it was there.