Why do people keep buying VE commodores?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Why do people care if others buy a VE?
What makes people so upset to see someone buy a VE?.

i don't like to see ford australia struggling. simple as that.

[flooded one]

I wouldnt say looks sell. the toyota camry will never win the best looking car award but seems too beat everything in the medium car market when it comes to sales. its the camry reputation of being reliable is why it sells. cars like the last series magnas and the AU were bagged for their looks and people thought because of all the negative things said people assumed that they were flawed. even the 380 was dogged by the media and that affected sales. the media has its eyes set on the falcon at the moment and that does effect sales. just google ford falcon and see all the negative things said about it. people see that and think. oh they dont like it. it must be flawed!! the AU ute had the front end of the AU falcon but yet it sold very well. It got good reviews because at the time what else was around like it??? again proves my points that looks dont sell. its what people say about the car. thats why large cars arent selling as well anymore. people dont want large sedans anymore as they "use too much fuel and cant carry as much as an SUV" is the arguement in use today. even the VE doesnt sell as well as commodores of the past and it wont sell as well as it did untill people want large sedans again

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

People buy the better looking car. The ve is a nicer looking car than the fg. The only fg that looks better than a ve is the g6et. However I think the fg is the better car model for model but just doesn't look as good.

It's a repeat of the VT and au 6 cylinders, the au on merit was a great car but the vt looked heaps better and sold like hot cakes.

Ford only ever stepped ahead in the sales race when their cars looked better (BA, EF, EL). People don't care which car is actually better.

Just like in the social scene, you would take home an airhead hotty over a short stumpy buck teeth muppet who is a doctor.

How many times do you need to be told that look's are subjective Hulk... (sorry Rapid) what you might think is a better looking car, other's will disagree.
Typical of you to sneak in the AU in your post aswell when clearly the Commodore outsold the BA as much as it did the AU, .

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

How many times do you need to be told that look's are subjective Hulk... (sorry Rapid) what you might think is a better looking car, other's will disagree.
Typical of you to sneak in the AU in your post aswell when clearly the Commodore outsold the BA as much as it did the AU, .

funny enough the AU also outsold the BA

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

How many times do you need to be told that look's are subjective Hulk... (sorry Rapid) what you might think is a better looking car, other's will disagree.
Typical of you to sneak in the AU in your post aswell when clearly the Commodore outsold the BA as much as it did the AU, .

Apologies, the point Im making is generally the car that is well received in the looks department sells. Look at the Mazda 3, no better than a mitsubishi lancer but outsells it big time due to its looks.

Its the same with VE and FG

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Apologies, the point Im making is generally the car that is well received in the looks department sells. Look at the Mazda 3, no better than a mitsubishi lancer but outsells it big time due to its looks.

Its the same with VE and FG

I guess that mean's that the Toyota Hilux is a better looking car then all then going by your theory ?.
The only point you were trying to make in your post is your ussual rub it in to the AU, that was quite clear Hulk.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Apologies, the point Im making is generally the car that is well received in the looks department sells. Look at the Mazda 3, no better than a mitsubishi lancer but outsells it big time due to its looks.

Its the same with VE and FG

What a crock of crap, basing a higher sales on looks.

You have been told, looks are subjective simple as that. Its not FACT that one looks better then another.

[blueovalfan.com]

Good looks is only a part of the package, just ask any potential daughter-in-law! I look at some cars and think wow, awesome, but the missus has a different point of view. She can't understand what all the fuss is about XY GT 351's! Consumer behaviour is influenced by a cars looks, general reputation of the maker (example, are they known to be a reliable brand?), price, several other factors, and of course, REVIEWS. Most of us here would use reviews as a part of our buying criteria for more costly items, especially cars. Many times I have made a general purchase based on positive reviews and just as many times not gone through with a purchase due to bad reviews. So why does one model outsell the next? All of the above and a bit more.

[RAPID_BA]

Dont shoot the messenger..

http://voices.yahoo.com/five-surpris...r-1034865.html

http://www.rheoscience.com/car/reaso...buy-a-new-car/

http://www.adamgoldfein.com/2010/10/...uy-new-cars-2/

[DJR-351]

Whatever i buy it's because i like it, it's got nothing to do with what anyone else thinks.....i buy to please me, if that choice is the popular one then so be it, if not i couldn't give a dam......

Re: Why do people keep buying VE commodores?

Because the people who buy them prefer them, it's as simple as that.....it's no mystery to me.......and why i never feel the irrational need to try and justify why my choice is not the popular one....

Maybe a shrink would, but i just don't get these type of threads.....

[blueovalfan.com]

Yes we all ultimately buy things because we like it or need it but reviews and expert opinions have a massive influence on sales. Why has "Choice" magazine been so popular and lasted so long? Because buyers are influenced by expert opinions and also experiences from other consumers. Companies like Microsoft are obsessed with opinions of influential bloggers and tech writers because they know how much influence they wield over consumers. There are loads of people who are not that savvy with buying cars and value the opinion of others who may be more informed.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by wildrider

funny enough the AU also outsold the BA

Funny that, an extra 2 years of sales will kind of have that effect.

[EgoFG]

Sorry, I could not see which one of these link offered an objective measure that showed the VE to be better looking than the FG, or even that sales are based only, or even primarily on looks.

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Dont shoot the messenger..

http://voices.yahoo.com/five-surpris...r-1034865.html

http://www.rheoscience.com/car/reaso...buy-a-new-car/

http://www.adamgoldfein.com/2010/10/...uy-new-cars-2/

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by blueovalfan.com

Yes we all ultimately buy things because we like it or need it but reviews and expert opinions have a massive influence on sales. Why has "Choice" magazine been so popular and lasted so long? Because buyers are influenced by expert opinions and also experiences from other consumers. Companies like Microsoft are obsessed with opinions of influential bloggers and tech writers because they know how much influence they wield over consumers. There are loads of people who are not that savvy with buying cars and value the opinion of others who may be more informed.

Maybe to you and others, but i don't and no matter how much the glossy mag praises a product, if i don't like it i won't buy it.....period....

But i guess that is not the point you are making, the point you are making is that all these people that buy the VE have been led up the garden path by untruthful magazine reviews, and this is why "people keep buying VE commodores".....am i correct in my observation or not....?

Also i would just like to point out that i wouldn't know a VE from any other Commodore, I have never had an interest in them at all.......

[blueovalfan.com]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Maybe to you and others, but i don't and no matter how much the glossy mag praises a product, if i don't like it i won't buy it.....period....

But i guess that is not the point you are making, the point you are making is that all these people that buy the VE have been led up the garden path by untruthful magazine reviews, and this is why "people keep buying VE commodores".....am i correct in my observation or not....?

Also i would just like to point out that i wouldn't know a VE from any other Commodore, I have never had an interest in them at all.......

It's not about a glossy mag praising a product because we know that they are bias and want to paint their products in the best possible light. I have never bought a Big Mac that looks like the ones shown on TV . It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Choice magazine and other "Independent" reviewers are influenced by some corporate "donations" to encourage favourable reviews of their products. That sort of thing happens all the time. True, if we don't like a product we won't buy it, but have you ever noticed in Ford ads or any other auto ads over the years, how they love to quote Wheels magazine etc, "Car of the Year," because of their favourable reviews? Reviews are very influential. If they weren't, they would not quote Wheels and others.

Yes I agree, people buy VE's because they LIKE them but that LIKE is often influenced by reviews, opinions of other VE drivers, and other sources that most likely don't have any hidden agenda or potential to gain financially by giving an honest opinion. Holden will always tell you their VE's are great but a driver with a bad experience may tell you it's crap. His/her opinion is very influential.

If you examine your own purchases over the years you will find many examples of how you have been influenced by other's opinions, especially when buying tech products or things that you are not so savvy about. Ever purchased on ebay? Seller feedback is the backbone of an ebay business because third party opinions do matter.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Funny that, an extra 2 years of sales will kind of have that effect.

if that be the case the FG would of outsold it. the VE has yet too outsell the VT funny that too! how longs the VE been out for 6years. we all bag the AU out but yet its outsold every falcon made after it. i might add its also sold more then some previous falcon too.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Funny that, an extra 2 years of sales will kind of have that effect.

That maybe true but even when you compare the AU to BA for the same time frame that the BA was sold for the AU still outsold it, this has been discused before and when the overall numbers are done, it is true.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by wildrider

if that be the case the FG would of outsold it. the VE has yet too outsell the VT funny that too! how longs the VE been out for 6years. we all bag the AU out but yet its outsold every falcon made after it. i might add its also sold more then some previous falcon too.

No point comparing sales of a large car 10 years ago to now, the market has totally changed and the large car segment is a shadow of it's former self. The end:

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

That maybe true but even when you compare the AU to BA for the same time frame that the BA was sold for the AU still outsold it, this has been discused before and when the overall numbers are done, it is true.

Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. The above post (Post#108) is perfect to demonstrate this. There has been a general decline in sales for large RWD cars from 1999-2012 (buyers downsizing to Mazda 3, camry etc).

We should not look at outright sales but the percentage of the large car total sales pool the particular model attracted. Concentrate on the massive gaps in the graph between commodore and falcon sales for certain periods and then consider when the gap is closed...

This will evidence how well a model was received against its main rival.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Your analysis is fundamentally flawed. The above post (Post#108) is perfect to demonstrate this. There has been a general decline in sales for large RWD cars from 1999-2012 (buyers downsizing to Mazda 3, camry etc).

We should not look at outright sales but the percentage of the large car total sales pool the particular model attracted. Concentrate on the massive gaps in the graph between commodore and falcon sales for certain periods and then consider when the gap is closed...

This will evidence how well a model was received against its main rival.

You are right! Even though the large car segment is trending down, the gap between any Falcon from the same time and the VE is huge. The fact is, the VE even in a declining market is far more relevant than the Falcon during this time however after a decade of decline of the large car segment, they both have made it onto the endangered species list.

Bud Bud

[RAPID_BA]

It appears from Post #108 that the BA-BF series arrested the gap in sales between falcon and commodore and at times stuck its nose ahead.

Also with VT/VX and then VE commodore they just never looked back with sales against their falcon rivals. Why? My opinion is looks/style but your guess is as good as mine

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

People buy the better looking car. The ve is a nicer looking car than the fg. The only fg that looks better than a ve is the g6et. However I think the fg is the better car model for model but just doesn't look as good.

It's a repeat of the VT and au 6 cylinders, the au on merit was a great car but the vt looked heaps better and sold like hot cakes.

Ford only ever stepped ahead in the sales race when their cars looked better (BA, EF, EL). People don't care which car is actually better.

Just like in the social scene, you would take home an airhead hotty over a short stumpy buck teeth muppet who is a doctor.

Legendary GM designer Leo Pruneau suggested that in Australia, hard 'masculine' edges sell. Some of the best selling and market dominating Falcons were XD-E-F and then the E series shape (voted best looking worldwide design by Ford internal worldwide testing against contemporary BMW's and the like). Territory, upon release, had the same hard edges on the bonnetline as EB/XD (and that VE does), and one of the reasons it was signed off on was that it was 'better looking' than the Freestyle.

Ford's resurgence with BA combined the harder edges, aggressive marketing and spec wise, major 'upgrades' across the range.

[2011G6E]

Another very good point:
Given that we are a tiny country with a small population (plenty of bigger cities in the world have more than our entire population...the storm in the USA at the moment is affecting "over 60 million people"), we should just be very very thankful that we don't just buy CKD imports at best, or purely imported cars at worst, with no local industry whatsoever.

The local industry has, in the past, been molly-coddled and cotton-wool wrapped by governments, meaning they didn't have to try harder to build a better car as they knew they were protected well from the big bad world outside. Lowering tariffs and taxes has meant they have to raise their game to compete.
My parents were, for example, always buying foreign cars as long as I can remember...a Hillman Minx when I was born, then on through a series of Jap cars from a Mazda Capella, to a 929 top of the line wagon, to a Diahatsu Charade in '84, to a Mazda 121 Metro in '96 shortly before my old man died. The cars have always been unfailingly reliable, great value, and better equipped than Australian cars of the same time (until you start hammering the option sheets). Neighbours who would routinely buy a new Holden Vacationer whenever a new one came out still have memories for me of standing around talking to my old man, comparing features with the "Jap stuff". Even things as minor as radio cassettes standard and air con and disc brakes used to be what a foreign buyer could just expect as normal, not an expensive option.

Yes, having a capability to build vehicles is an important thing for any country to have...but you can't ignore the rest of the world and protect them to the point where they feel safe to become lazy.
The VE and the FG are fantastic cars...but they still need to pick up their game in a few small areas to compete equally with foreign stuff. We should be glad we still have the choice of buying an Aussie car...but that doesn't mean we should let them get away with building those Aussie cars to a "just good enough" standard...they need to be world standard, even if they aren't exported.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And that means...

So he's worked there for 30 years, buys them regularly, but not for 6 years and prefers chryslers.
I can understand if he has bought inhouse over the last 30 years with the discounts they get, so why not get one recently if price is his thing.

I have a mate who's been there for 25 years as of last week when they presented him with his 25yr service award.
I always ask him when he's getting a Commodore, he says he never would, 'have you seen the people who screw them together' is his reply.

Im not saying my perception is right, but my experiences living in Elizabeth have led me to believe that many just dont even consider Ford.

He hasn't upgraded over the last 6 years due to house renos, although I believe he's looking at upgrading in the next 6 months or so.

He isn't a diehard Commodore fan, because he works there....he's a diehard Valiant man...So the fact he works for Holden doesn't mean he's one eyed towards that brand. (as you eluded to in your previous post)

I lived in Elizabeth for 10 years and worked round the Salisbury area for 8 years in the tyre trade.....If anything I spend alot of time working on Toyotas...Then I reckon the next was Falcons as I got known as being able to align them without costing the owners an arm and a leg....(Non-adjustable with camber and caster)...Then came the Commodore....These were due to Holden getting a trade discount through my previous employer...

Hope that clarifies a little

[Ryan]

Coz Holdens ar da sikest and rip good burnoutz that no ******* Ford can do hahahahah ROFLCOPTER!!!!!!
















I nearly bought a VE, but went the VZ route. I guess people have their views, but someone I know with an 07 SS said they have a lot of niggling problems. The later models are probably better, but at the time I could only afford an 06/07 model.

Plus as a matter of personal preference I like the look of VZs more.

[mik]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

People buy the better looking car. The ve is a nicer looking car than the fg. The only fg that looks better than a ve is the g6et. However I think the fg is the better car model for model but just doesn't look as good.

It's a repeat of the VT and au 6 cylinders, the au on merit was a great car but the vt looked heaps better and sold like hot cakes.

Ford only ever stepped ahead in the sales race when their cars looked better (BA, EF, EL). People don't care which car is actually better.

Just like in the social scene, you would take home an airhead hotty over a short stumpy buck teeth muppet who is a doctor.

sorry bud , better looking in your eyes .

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

He isn't a diehard Commodore fan, because he works there....he's a diehard Valiant man...So the fact he works for Holden doesn't mean he's one eyed towards that brand. (as you eluded to in your previous post)

I lived in Elizabeth for 10 years and worked round the Salisbury area for 8 years in the tyre trade.....If anything I spend alot of time working on Toyotas...Then I reckon the next was Falcons as I got known as being able to align them without costing the owners an arm and a leg....(Non-adjustable with camber and caster)...Then came the Commodore....These were due to Holden getting a trade discount through my previous employer...

Hope that clarifies a little

All good.
My intention wasnt to link my mates time at Holdens with his desire to own a Commodore.
He was just into Holdens and Holdens alone.
You only have to look in the carpark to see theres every different brand being driven by Holdens employee's, definately no trend.

My old man was a Ford man until he retired into a Jap 4 banger.
He regularly told me what he thought about Holdens, yet i never recall him owning one...
I was a little more curious than he, and so discovered that there is good and bad in both marquee's.

As for the VE, i dont mind it, it definately has presence on the road and looks ok in SS and Calais form.
Whilst the styling is getting on, i dont see the problem if it works for them.
I've often thought the Aussie need to reinvent the wheel every few years in regards to design is obsessive.

The whole idea that we need to make everyone around us aware that we have the latest model reeks of arrogance.

[mik]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Another very good point:
Given that we are a tiny country with a small population (plenty of bigger cities in the world have more than our entire population...the storm in the USA at the moment is affecting "over 60 million people"), we should just be very very thankful that we don't just buy CKD imports at best, or purely imported cars at worst, with no local industry whatsoever.

The local industry has, in the past, been molly-coddled and cotton-wool wrapped by governments, meaning they didn't have to try harder to build a better car as they knew they were protected well from the big bad world outside. Lowering tariffs and taxes has meant they have to raise their game to compete.
My parents were, for example, always buying foreign cars as long as I can remember...a Hillman Minx when I was born, then on through a series of Jap cars from a Mazda Capella, to a 929 top of the line wagon, to a Diahatsu Charade in '84, to a Mazda 121 Metro in '96 shortly before my old man died. The cars have always been unfailingly reliable, great value, and better equipped than Australian cars of the same time (until you start hammering the option sheets). Neighbours who would routinely buy a new Holden Vacationer whenever a new one came out still have memories for me of standing around talking to my old man, comparing features with the "Jap stuff". Even things as minor as radio cassettes standard and air con and disc brakes used to be what a foreign buyer could just expect as normal, not an expensive option.

Yes, having a capability to build vehicles is an important thing for any country to have...but you can't ignore the rest of the world and protect them to the point where they feel safe to become lazy.
The VE and the FG are fantastic cars...but they still need to pick up their game in a few small areas to compete equally with foreign stuff. We should be glad we still have the choice of buying an Aussie car...but that doesn't mean we should let them get away with building those Aussie cars to a "just good enough" standard...they need to be world standard, even if they aren't exported.

the days of being molly coddled are well and truly over, imports these days have our manufacturing over a barrel, end of story.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

All good.
My intention wasnt to link my mates time at Holdens with his desire to own a Commodore.
He was just into Holdens and Holdens alone.
You only have to look in the carpark to see theres every different brand being driven by Holdens employee's, definately no trend.

My old man was a Ford man until he retired into a Jap 4 banger.
He regularly told me what he thought about Holdens, yet i never recall him owning one...
I was a little more curious than he, and so discovered that there is good and bad in both marquee's.

As for the VE, i dont mind it, it definately has presence on the road and looks ok in SS and Calais form.
Whilst the styling is getting on, i dont see the problem if it works for them.
I've often thought the Aussie need to reinvent the wheel every few years in regards to design is obsessive.

The whole idea that we need to make everyone around us aware that we have the latest model reeks of arrogance.

I have heard rumours that employees of car manufacturers don't like buying that particular brand as they see all the shonky stuff that happens during production. (and they are just rumours and not definate fact)

Personally I see the VE being aimed at the modifying market...Having the big wheel flares (ala 80's era) and being able to lower them to give the aggressive stance (ala 80's era) etc etc.

The Falcon doesn't seem to be aimed at that market so much......Back in the 80's that's what helped the Falcon along......Young people wanting the "hot" look...and the same applies these days....but Ford don't seem to accomodate that as much....

All personal opinion of course and not distracting from what Ford Aust are trying to do.

[blueovalfan.com]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I have heard rumours that employees of car manufacturers don't like buying that particular brand as they see all the shonky stuff that happens during production. (and they are just rumours and not definate fact)
.

That would not surprise me at all. The trouble is, if they buy another brand they could also be buying the shonky work from that manufacturers workers. . Another unverifiable fact but a mate of mine claims he read somewhere that the best cars to buy are the ones made mid-week, Tuesday to Thursday. Because on Monday the workers are depressed about getting back to work and recovering from the weekend, and on Friday's their mind is on getting the heck out of here for the weekend!