Country pack, a hypothetical

[prydey]

i wonder if there is any feedback regarding ground clearance on XT's?

making the 'country pack' a parts bin special and a dealer fit option would be the logical move. there are many 'official' options that get fitted at dealerships and still covered under full factory warranty.

rather than look at it as a whole new car or special model, perhaps view it in the same light as 'tow pack' or 'tech pack' or 'luxury pack'.

the area where it gets a bit tricky is the fitment of different suspension and wheels and the DSC calibration eg, ordering a G6E and optioning the 'country pack' would require it fitted with XT suspension and wheels.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fanboi

Meh i live rurally and my fg2 turbo is fine and never had an issue with any falcons at all, the fiesta struggles with the **** roads and destroys rims but the fg 19s are fine.

The only time i cant use the turbo is when its flooded.

And how big does your air supply need to be to run a falcon submerged for 5 minutes?

I find FWD cars seem to handle dodgy conditions a lot better than my Falcon can.

And a friend has experienced the same thing with his company Commodore, he has a 1990 Honda Integra and we've come to the conclusion our FWD cars do this work a lot easier.

Particularily on dirt roads, with off camber sweeping turns, the Falcon will slide even at 50-60km/h, I can consistantly hit the same corners no problem at 80km/h in our FWD cars without any hint of the back end wanting to go loose or even under steer.

Road has a 100km/h speed limit, I can't push over 60km/h in the Falcon without it feeling unsafe or wanting to slide everywhere with a slight bend, the first time I drove it up there it really caught me off guard with a slide.

Where I can do 80 comfortably in the old mans Mazda 323, my Fiesta and Focus, without any issues.

I'm not sure if this is to do with EF/EL Falcons and their supposed odd front/rear suspension setup because the friend I'm talking about has the same issue with his VY Commodore against his Integra.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I find FWD cars seem to handle dodgy conditions a lot better than my Falcon can.

And a friend has experienced the same thing with his company Commodore, he has a 1990 Honda Integra and we've come to the conclusion our FWD cars do this work a lot easier.

Particularily on dirt roads, with off camber sweeping turns, the Falcon will slide even at 50-60km/h, I can consistantly hit the same corners no problem at 80km/h in our FWD cars without any hint of the back end wanting to go loose or even under steer.

Road has a 100km/h speed limit, I can't push over 60km/h in the Falcon without it feeling unsafe or wanting to slide everywhere with a slight bend, the first time I drove it up there it really caught me off guard with a slide.

Where I can do 80 comfortably in the old mans Mazda 323, my Fiesta and Focus, without any issues.

I'm not sure if this is to do with EF/EL Falcons and their supposed odd front/rear suspension setup because the friend I'm talking about has the same issue with his VY Commodore against his Integra.

i think an fg would be a bit better than your 15 ? year old el.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Bought a FGII ute, would have paid up to 3 grand more for an RTV or 1,000 extra for country pack. I delayed my purchase by a couple of months when someone on here said there was a new Falcon ute variant and I was hoping for a RTV.

The problem is no one takes the Falcon ute seriously as a work ute anymore, it looks like a toy so close to the ground.

yes the rtv was an excellent variation on the model, it would have been interesting to see it explored a bit more perhaps with a wagon and sedan model .......... basically a country pack.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by mik

i think an fg would be a bit better than your 15 ? year old el.

The stability control on a modern Falcon and Commodore on dirt roads is world class, my old SV6 felt like an AWD on dirt- it would brake the inside wheels on dirt road corners, just bloody needed more clearance.

[mik]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Come lads, we all know those who are smart and live outside the city limits,buy real off road rigs like patrols and cruisers
Noone with even an inkling of ruff roads,pothole ridden roads,requiring traction on more than the 2 rear wheels,isnt buying anything less
Whats the biggest selling cow cocky machine ever, the cruiser,what do there sons, their sons sons buy, cruisers,what does mum buy a Toyota,usually a 4x4
Its only the wannabees in their soccer mum cars that buy SUVs, there only good for the soft stuff, and most 99.9% of the time are on soft stuff
You want a decent powefull go anywhere machine thatll tow your big van off road handle the ruff stuff, the best we have on offer in this country is the V8 cruiser and patrol,you would even look at an SUV .....
SUV,
S Soccer mums
U Urban
V Vechicle

not every one can afford a land cruiser, not every one needs more 4wd traction, not every one wants a high humungus high block of flats to run from the country into the big smoke on roads less well maintained when a comfy less costly effortless mile eating sedan with suitable tyres and ground clearance will do the job.

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Come lads, we all know those who are smart and live outside the city limits,buy real off road rigs like patrols and cruisers
Noone with even an inkling of ruff roads,pothole ridden roads,requiring traction on more than the 2 rear wheels,isnt buying anything less
Whats the biggest selling cow cocky machine ever, the cruiser,what do there sons, their sons sons buy, cruisers,what does mum buy a Toyota,usually a 4x4
Its only the wannabees in their soccer mum cars that buy SUVs, there only good for the soft stuff, and most 99.9% of the time are on soft stuff
You want a decent powefull go anywhere machine thatll tow your big van off road handle the ruff stuff, the best we have on offer in this country is the V8 cruiser and patrol,you would even look at an SUV .....
SUV,
S Soccer mums
U Urban
V Vechicle

So my 80 year old father is a soccer mum. He has lived in rural NSW all of his life and except for a Graham and 2 Customline's has had Falcon's all of his life,many with the Country Pack fitted,until a few months ago when he bought a new SUV.Would not entertain the thought of a Patrol or Landcruiser as he regards them as trucks.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I find FWD cars seem to handle dodgy conditions a lot better than my Falcon can.

And a friend has experienced the same thing with his company Commodore, he has a 1990 Honda Integra and we've come to the conclusion our FWD cars do this work a lot easier.

Particularily on dirt roads, with off camber sweeping turns, the Falcon will slide even at 50-60km/h, I can consistantly hit the same corners no problem at 80km/h in our FWD cars without any hint of the back end wanting to go loose or even under steer.

Road has a 100km/h speed limit, I can't push over 60km/h in the Falcon without it feeling unsafe or wanting to slide everywhere with a slight bend, the first time I drove it up there it really caught me off guard with a slide.

Where I can do 80 comfortably in the old mans Mazda 323, my Fiesta and Focus, without any issues.

I'm not sure if this is to do with EF/EL Falcons and their supposed odd front/rear suspension setup because the friend I'm talking about has the same issue with his VY Commodore against his Integra.

Oh, because a 10 year old Commodore and a 15+ year old Ford are really representative of a brand new FG...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Oh, because a 10 year old Commodore and a 15+ year old Ford are really representative of a brand new FG...

No but they ARE representative of a time when Falcon sold very well and had a very wide market demographic made up of many niches.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Oh, because a 10 year old Commodore and a 15+ year old Ford are really representative of a brand new FG...

Just like how a 23 year old Integra and 10 year old 323 is representative of Honda and Mazda's new cars?

Thats my real experience with RWD cars on crap conditions.

Originally Posted by mik

i think an fg would be a bit better than your 15 ? year old el.

Probably would be but 9/10 chance I wouldn't buy a new Falcon when there are other better cars in the new Ford range anyway, like Mondeo, Fiesta and Focus which suit my purpose just as well. I generally only need to cart myself around and my tools, plus my other random crap which floats around with me in the car, or every now and again, Mum and Dad on family outings, and we all fit in my smallest car, the Fiesta comfortably.

Another thing why I don't like sedans, is I can fit my toolbox in the back of my Focus, standing up right, and its easy to load and unload, where in my Falcon it would have to be pushed in on its back, and then you'd be bending over to drag 30kg+ out of it and I assume its no good for your back.

When I take the Falcon into work I leave my tools there, as its just too hard to bring them home, its good for luggage, but I'm not carrying perfectly rectangle bags in my boot.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by mik

yes the rtv was an excellent variation on the model, it would have been interesting to see it explored a bit more perhaps with a wagon and sedan model .......... basically a country pack.

Yeah they were great, but to be honest I would be happy even if we went back to the ground clearance on the AU ute, the AU ute was a great work ute and used to sell up to 2000 units a month. My FG I reckon is around at least an inch lower and sadly sales are dying (last month they sold around 300). The FG base ute looks good but has as much clearance as a Mazda 3 and just doesn't get taken seriously as a work ute anymore.

[prydey]

the only thing that looks lower is the front bumper. the rest of it looks about the same ground clearance.

oh, and the fact that hilux, ranger, navara, patrol, triton etc do a much better job has nothing to do with the declining sales of the falcon ute, its because its got a lower front bar. yeah right!

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I find FWD cars seem to handle dodgy conditions a lot better than my Falcon can.

And a friend has experienced the same thing with his company Commodore, he has a 1990 Honda Integra and we've come to the conclusion our FWD cars do this work a lot easier.

Particularily on dirt roads, with off camber sweeping turns, the Falcon will slide even at 50-60km/h, I can consistantly hit the same corners no problem at 80km/h in our FWD cars without any hint of the back end wanting to go loose or even under steer.

Road has a 100km/h speed limit, I can't push over 60km/h in the Falcon without it feeling unsafe or wanting to slide everywhere with a slight bend, the first time I drove it up there it really caught me off guard with a slide.

Where I can do 80 comfortably in the old mans Mazda 323, my Fiesta and Focus, without any issues.

I'm not sure if this is to do with EF/EL Falcons and their supposed odd front/rear suspension setup because the friend I'm talking about has the same issue with his VY Commodore against his Integra.

Something is wrong with your EL falcon, shocks are gone i would think.
I have a VY SS and can drive it as hard as i like with total confidence control, come dirt roads as well. when the rear shocks start to go bad it become a handful even on the bitumen road, i bought Monro GT gas sensertrack shocks and they are the biggest load of rubbish ever, even the stock shocks were far better then them.
I have a 2011 Toyota Aurion and dirt roads are a no no as all FWD cars are dedicated under steering rubbish, just down right full on dangerous rubbish as you can't control them at the limit. and the noise of the front wheels digging stones up all the time is sicking.

[nstg8a]

Fwd cars are much better on gravel than equivalent rwd cars.

Just gotta compare apples to apples.

Look at the states, in all the statès that suffer from long winters periods where traction is doubtful fwds are far more common.

Look at rallying, once fwds caught up tech wise they started hammering the rwd cars.
Sometimes under steer is a much better option than oversteer...

[mik]

Originally Posted by prydey

the only thing that looks lower is the front bumper. the rest of it looks about the same ground clearance.

oh, and the fact that hilux, ranger, navara, patrol, triton etc do a much better job has nothing to do with the declining sales of the falcon ute, its because its got a lower front bar. yeah right!

looks to me like the au is higher in the cab floor as well, look at the bottom edge of the sill , draw a line from that to the front hub, it almost hits the wheel nuts on the au, it appears considerably lower on rim on the other one.

honest question , why are the others better Prydey???

[flappist]

What is this fixation with dirt roads?

Do you really think that the only places in Australia that have bitumen surfaces are the capital cities?

The purpose of this hypothetical has nothing to do with off cambre dirt corners in woop woop.

It is to do with rough poor quality and badly maintained bitumen road and highways as found all over the country between regional centres.

You are aware that several sections of Highway 1 have been reduced to a 90 km/h due to their poor state which led to an increase in vehicle damage and fatalities.

Some of you really should get out more.........

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Some of you really should get out more.........

you don't even have to go all that far. parts of the newell resemble a goat track. with the flooding in recent years, many roads are in terrible condition. i personally haven't had a problem with not enough ground clearance though, but thats not to say others wouldn't like to have some more.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by castellan

Something is wrong with your EL falcon, shocks are gone i would think.
I have a VY SS and can drive it as hard as i like with total confidence control, come dirt roads as well. when the rear shocks start to go bad it become a handful even on the bitumen road, i bought Monro GT gas sensertrack shocks and they are the biggest load of rubbish ever, even the stock shocks were far better then them.
I have a 2011 Toyota Aurion and dirt roads are a no no as all FWD cars are dedicated under steering rubbish, just down right full on dangerous rubbish as you can't control them at the limit. and the noise of the front wheels digging stones up all the time is sicking.

I've got new stub axles with new upper/lower ball joints, new shocks and springs all round, new tyres as well.

I haven't done any of the bushes except for the shock ones though.

Though, give me understeer any day over oversteer.

Originally Posted by flappist

What is this fixation with dirt roads?

Do you really think that the only places in Australia that have bitumen surfaces are the capital cities?

The purpose of this hypothetical has nothing to do with off cambre dirt corners in woop woop.

It is to do with rough poor quality and badly maintained bitumen road and highways as found all over the country between regional centres.

You are aware that several sections of Highway 1 have been reduced to a 90 km/h due to their poor state which led to an increase in vehicle damage and fatalities.

Some of you really should get out more.........

I travel on one of those roads every morning going to work and back thats a goat track bitumen road, and between two of the towns I frequently travel between, its been dropped from 100, to 80 now to 60.

At one stage it got so bad people cracked alloy wheels, a trailer lost one of its wheels, mum damaged a tyre and bent a steel rim, it got to a point where there was a lawyer giving advise on taking up a class law suit against VicRoads/local council as the amount of people not getting any love out of local council/VicRoads for repairs for damage was huge.

Even though VicRoads was in the wrong and they knew it, they would drag people through court to set an example to the others.

My local councilor is the barber in town, and when I get my hair cut I keep him on his toes by questioning him on everything and find out whats new, he said that the local council and VicRoads are fighting over that particular road which has been knocked down to 60km/h, over who owns the road and who will be paying for repairs.

VicRoads wants none of it, apparently its our road.

Council says its their road and they won't be paying for it.

If its our road, then our town shouldn't pay VicRoad's road maintenance excise on fuel then and we should have cheaper rego, since it isn't going to road upkeep.

And they can **** off their mobile camera on the main stretch out of here because the money isn't going back into our roads.

[mik]

i know the road you speak of, from memory was`nt there a picture with a bloke laying a pothole on that road?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by flappist

What is this fixation with dirt roads?

Do you really think that the only places in Australia that have bitumen surfaces are the capital cities?

The purpose of this hypothetical has nothing to do with off cambre dirt corners in woop woop.

It is to do with rough poor quality and badly maintained bitumen road and highways as found all over the country between regional centres.

You are aware that several sections of Highway 1 have been reduced to a 90 km/h due to their poor state which led to an increase in vehicle damage and fatalities.

Some of you really should get out more.........

The bitumen roads out my way ,unless its a major road, the bitumen stuff isn't much wider than 1 car width,so 2 cars, your well of the road venturing into who knows what
If 2 people are nice they share what they can,but youd be surprised how many aren't nice,even when theres a 3 tonne 4x4 comin at them
The council aren't up to speed with the road edge clearing,so your venturing sometimes into 4,5 foot long stuff

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by flappist

No but they ARE representative of a time when Falcon sold very well and had a very wide market demographic made up of many niches.....

Yeah, but I don't get how that's relevant now though. Now it's 20 years later and there are lots of new vehicles that fill those niches. There's a reason why cars like the Falcon wagon, panel van, Fairlane and country pack are all dead, it's not because of how good they were or how well they did the job, it's because buyers didn't want them and moved on to cars that suited them better. The Falcon needs to find new niches with new buyers if it wants a secure future, not fight for old ones in which it doesn't stand a chance.

[mr smith]

Just the last few days my XR Ute has scrapped its *** coming out of a country car park and I nearly lost a front spat doing a u turn in a country drive way. I love the look of the car but it really cant handle getting out too far. Thing is I dont want a XL. Country pack on an XR would be a definate, but it looks like I will go with a XLS Ranger next.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Yeah, but I don't get how that's relevant now though. Now it's 20 years later and there are lots of new vehicles that fill those niches. There's a reason why cars like the Falcon wagon, panel van, Fairlane and country pack are all dead, it's not because of how good they were or how well they did the job, it's because buyers didn't want them and moved on to cars that suited them better. The Falcon needs to find new niches with new buyers if it wants a secure future, not fight for old ones in which it doesn't stand a chance.

Yes and there is also a reason why some decisions are reversed when they are found to not be suitable for a changing market.
V8s came back in EB after several years of "death".

But that was a major exercise what cost a lot of money and was a huge gamble.

Simple inexpensive changes can sometimes make a HUGE difference to market perception and sales.

e.g.

Build a falcon with a powerful V8 engine and up market interior.....luke warm sales.
Upgrade this to a more powerful handmade engine and superior brakes and handling.....luke warm sales.

Change the badge from TE50 to GT and add factory stripes......sell more in the first 6 months than in the previous 3 years.

So for the cost of a couple of plastic badges and some stick on stripes a whole new market segment again noticed the high end Falcons, remembered what they once were and voted with their wallets.

Now as for the niche:

Please list out for me luxury high performance sedans, Australian made preferably but not mandatorily, that are available in both low ground clearance large sporty rims and slightly higher ground clearance and slightly smaller rims (note slightly does not mean 300mm with truck tyres).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes and there is also a reason why some decisions are reversed when they are found to not be suitable for a changing market.
V8s came back in EB after several years of "death".

But that was a major exercise what cost a lot of money and was a huge gamble.

Simple inexpensive changes can sometimes make a HUGE difference to market perception and sales.

e.g.

Build a falcon with a powerful V8 engine and up market interior.....luke warm sales.
Upgrade this to a more powerful handmade engine and superior brakes and handling.....luke warm sales.

Change the badge from TE50 to GT and add factory stripes......sell more in the first 6 months than in the previous 3 years.

So for the cost of a couple of plastic badges and some stick on stripes a whole new market segment again noticed the high end Falcons, remembered what they once were and voted with their wallets.

So your saying that larger disposable income, a complete redesign of the entire package and on track success were nothing to do with the popularity of the BA GT and it was all just the badges.

Can u explain why the EB and EL GT's never set the world on fire then, they carried the sacred letters too.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So your saying that larger disposable income, a complete redesign of the entire package and on track success were nothing to do with the popularity of the BA GT and it was all just the badges.

Can u explain why the EB and EL GT's never set the world on fire then, they carried the sacred letters too.

You mean the 25th Anniversary EB GT Limited Edition and the 30th Anniversary EL GT Limited Edition?

They were successes. They sold every single one of those limited edition models without having to discount and in fact sold more of them than GT40 or GT Black although the GT Cobra and GT R-Spec managed to sell slightly more which in each case was a limited number.

Now can you explain how the 2002 TE50 did not sell as well as the 2003 BA GT despite them being about the same price as neither were limited edition packages and were technically equivalent in their year model range.

At the same time can you explain why the FG and FG2 GT has always outsold the GS despite the GS being cheaper.

Still, I wonder why you have such a negative attitude to the offering of an option that requires almost no engineering or financial outlay and has 86% support on the poll in a time when Falcon could use every sale it can get.

You do realise that it would be an option and if you, well actually others as you have already stated above you don't buy new Falcons, don't want it then it is just left off the order.......

[Gothefalcon]

Well... I love driving around Oz in my BF2 Falcon !!

My last BF1 suffered from too little ground clearance... so I fixed that problem with this one ! Since doing that.... I've had so...o many people come up to me and tell me they would buy one like mine, if Ford made it !

So... this poll doesn't seem like such a silly idea to me !

As I drive around Oz... I still see Ford Dealers in remote locations... where you don't have to drive too far out, to be on fairly dodgy roads ! I reckon the locals would appreciate a new Falcon with an "outback pack"... just as most of the older models were optioned with !

I know of at least 5 individuals who are converting their Falcon Wagons to RTV spec... just so they can extend the capabilities of the car they love to own !

Dhru

[Jastel]

No one has blamed the governement yet. By changing laws, ADR's, Workplace Safety even the Green Fuzzy laws has a big impact on sales and what gets made and what doesn't.
The goverment says all cars after x date must have DSC, they get lower, go to IRS, have less carrying capacity, become more computerised and sophisticated and less "bushworthy" etc.

They pander to greenies and buys Prius, Leafs etc and 4 cylinders only, Ford and Holden lose sales. WHS says all cars on minesites must have 6 airbags, DSC, ABS or whatever they gotta buy what they can. It wont be a Ford or Holden but.

Then they act surprised that 500 jobs get axed by Ford.

Next week they may pass a law that limits all new cars to 75kmh and they must be electric and made from foam so they wont hurt the kangaroos.

I agree the old country pack was a decent idea for some people, personally I want the taxi pack back, (I had several of both packs), but things change economically, socially, legislatively and the world moves on.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

You mean the 25th Anniversary EB GT Limited Edition and the 30th Anniversary EL GT Limited Edition?

They were successes. They sold every single one of those limited edition models without having to discount and in fact sold more of them than GT40 or GT Black although the GT Cobra and GT R-Spec managed to sell slightly more which in each case was a limited number.

Now can you explain how the 2002 TE50 did not sell as well as the 2003 BA GT despite them being about the same price as neither were limited edition packages and were technically equivalent in their year model range.

At the same time can you explain why the FG and FG2 GT has always outsold the GS despite the GS being cheaper.

Still, I wonder why you have such a negative attitude to the offering of an option that requires almost no engineering or financial outlay and has 86% support on the poll in a time when Falcon could use every sale it can get.

You do realise that it would be an option and if you, well actually others as you have already stated above you don't buy new Falcons, don't want it then it is just left off the order.......

You only have to look at the sales figures for AU's last full year (01) against BA's first full year (03) to see a 23000 unit increase.
Unless the XT badge created a frenzy too id say it was more due to the better looking BA package that saw an influx of buyers at all levels.

The sales of falcon have fallen from that year onwards.

Infact, if you look at the sales figures of FPV's from 03 til 11 you will find a slow increase from 03 until 08/9 then a sharp decrease to 03 levels by 2011 then a slight revival after the SC engines arrival.

Obviously some of the reasoning behind the 2010 slump would be the upcoming arrival of the SC engine, but not all.

The facts speak for themselves, the rest I don't care for.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Well... I love driving around Oz in my BF2 Falcon !!

My last BF1 suffered from too little ground clearance... so I fixed that problem with this one ! Since doing that.... I've had so...o many people come up to me and tell me they would buy one like mine, if Ford made it !

So... this poll doesn't seem like such a silly idea to me !

As I drive around Oz... I still see Ford Dealers in remote locations... where you don't have to drive too far out, to be on fairly dodgy roads ! I reckon the locals would appreciate a new Falcon with an "outback pack"... just as most of the older models were optioned with !

I know of at least 5 individuals who are converting their Falcon Wagons to RTV spec... just so they can extend the capabilities of the car they love to own !

Dhru

If you can convince Ford to build AWD falcons id be all for it, I cant see it happening though as it would detract from Terri sales.

Would you trade your BF AWD wagon on a FG country pack RWD with bigger springs and $500 worth of alloy plate...

[Iggle Piggle]

86% support on the poll?? How do you get that?

I see two options where people say no, they would not order it, and responses to those two options total close to 50%.

Fair enough one of those options is 'No, but I can see that it might be good for others' - that is still a 'No' response...no, I would not buy it, but others might. They recognise someone else might buy it (ie the other 50% odd of respondants), but those selecting the 'No, but I can see that it might be good for others' option are still saying that they would would not buy it themselves.

So that is about 50% that would not buy it - which still means about 50% would, which is a lot more than I would have expected, so I would still take that as a win for country pack - you don't need to massage the results.