Ford Endura

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

edit Fpace shouldn't be there either, clearly a larger vehicle

Clearly not. The competitors have all been selected from the VFACTs data - the complete list is below.

The criteria is based on 'footprint defined as length (mm) x width (mm), rounded". Given that the definitions are:

Medium
8,101 - 8,800
Large
8,801 - 9,800
Upper Large
9,801 >

.. they mostly fit inside the Medium category except for the F-Pace (9,842) which should be Upper Large. The Discovery Sport (9,513), Porsche Macan (9,032), Volvo XC60 (8,917) and Endura (9,205) should all be Large, so clearly they can make break their own rules. There are probably others that I haven't calculated dimensions for.


Alfa Romeo Stelvio (8,919)
Audi Q5 (8,766)
BMW X3 (8,764)
BMW X4
Ford Escape
Haval H6
Holden Equinox
Honda CR-V
Hyundai Tucson (8,288)
Jaguar F-Pace (9,824)
Jeep Cherokee
Kia Sportage
Land Rover Discovery Sport (9,513)
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque (8,674)
Land Rover Range Rover Velar
Lexus NX
Mazda CX-5 (8,372)
Mercedes-Benz GLC-Class (8,800)
MG MG GS
Mitsubishi Outlander (8,498)
Nissan X-Trail (8,536)
Peugeot 3008 (8,120)
Peugeot 5008
Porsche Macan (9,032)
Renault Koleos
Skoda Karoq
Subaru Forester
Suzuki Grand Vitara
Toyota RAV4 (8,496)
Volkswagen Tiguan (8,250)
Volvo XC60 (8,917)
VW Golf All Track

Cheers
Russ

[russellw]

Originally Posted by prydey

Endura is 106mm shorter than Territory, but slightly wider and higher. Its definitely not the same class as Tucson etc. My folks recently bought a new Tucson and my Territory is noticeably bigger in height and width, and Endura is slightly bigger again.

I'm not arguing with you guys. Territory used to be classified as SUV Large and the footprint was 9,218. The Everest is also classified as Large with a footprint of 9,277 so we'll have to wait for the first month of sales report to see where they actually do put it.

I suspect the disclaimer they use below is the justification:

Note: These parameters are indicative only; exceptions do occur based on market focus and other subjective criteria.

Cheers
Russ

[prydey]

Originally Posted by russellw

I'm not arguing with you guys.

All good Russ, I wasn't shooting the messenger. Just questioning VFacts and their classification.

Given how the SUV market has exploded, perhaps they need to update their classification breakdown.

[Vesper Martini]

So where do Ford have the Escape classified?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

So where do Ford have the Escape classified?

Medium.

I was under the impression Ford were using the large category for the Endura. Not sure why it's classified as medium. But as Russ said, wait until VFACTs are released to see where they slot it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Theres flaws in that spec sheet. Especially with the Mazda, the Akera has 19 inch wheels, adaptive cruise etc. Didn't go too deep but its full of holes.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Theres flaws in that spec sheet. Especially with the Mazda, the Akera has 19 inch wheels, adaptive cruise etc. Didn't go too deep but its full of holes.

Thanks -they are actually back to front in the two sheets. The base one is actually the Touring and the Premium is the Akira. I'll update it later. I've updated it now - oh and the Akira has Radar Cruise.

Russ

[DFB FGXR6]

Who selects what catorgory each vehicle is listed under? The manufacturer or VFACTS?

If it is the manufacturer, then marketing and public perception considerations would skew which category is selected.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Who selects what catorgory each vehicle is listed under? The manufacturer or VFACTS?

If it is the manufacturer, then marketing and public perception considerations would skew which category is selected.

A few years ago Suzuki were advertising the vitara as a full size suv for the price of a mid size. It used to really bug me. It's barely big enough for a mid size!

Marketing people aren't really bothered about facts

[roddy1960]

What were they thinking calling it Endura ..Good or bad car , it's a terrible name. Webster dictionary meaning of it

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endura...

Hmmm

[russellw]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Who selects what catorgory each vehicle is listed under? The manufacturer or VFACTS?

If it is the manufacturer, then marketing and public perception considerations would skew which category is selected.

Category selection is done by VFACTs although I've no doubt they take input from the manufacturers. Interestingly, as I'm now looking at the Large SUV category, there are some I've found already that should be in the Medium segment based on footprint like the Captiva, Pajero Sport, Skoda Kodiaq and Subaru Outback, the latter by a small margin.

Cheers
Russ

[hackney]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

What were they thinking calling it Endura ..Good or bad car , it's a terrible name. Webster dictionary meaning of it

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/endura...

Hmmm

Isn’t there a condom by that name?

[russellw]

Here is the Base level comparison against the 'Large' SUV segment competition. You'll note that some are smaller than the class and the following are absent due to the lack of a diesel option.

Haval H9
LDV D90
Mazda CX-9
Nissan Pathfinder
Toyota Kluger



Cheers
Russ

[russellw]

.. and the more upmarket set of competitors in the Large SUV segment.

The following didn't make the list as they have no diesel option: Haval H9, Jaguar i-Pace, LDV D90, Mazda CX-9, Nissan Pathfinder and Toyota Kluger.

The Holden Captiva didn't make the list as it has no price comparative model.

The following didn't make the list as they are all over $100k: Lexus RX, Infiniti QX70, Maserati Levante, Mercedes GLE, Range Rover Sport, and Volvo XC90.

[Dr Smith]

Thanks to your excellent work Russell we can see Endura Titanium is as highly specced as any of it's opposition. I know Ford want to pitch it as premium, it's just not the market perception Ford has in Australia. Maybe Ford could have started with some special features to get the ball rolling, not a discounted honeymoon price special as it's very difficult to then move up to "full" pricing when this period ends, but rather some special wheels, limited colours, special interior, maybe something even borrowed from the EU Vignale. Get in early and get something not available in the regular range. Speaking of which I bloody hope it's not limited to a black-only interior.

[csv8]

russelw.."The following didn't make the list as they have no diesel option: Haval H9, Holden Captiva, Jaguar i-Pace, LDV D90, Mazda CX-9, Nissan Pathfinder and Toyota Kluger." My Captiva LTZ has a 2.2 diesel engine. If its a petrol engine it runs very well on diesel !! and the Tech Pack should be standard on the Titanium model.

[jpd80]

Keep in mind that in Europe, Titanium is not the top trim on Edge, Vignale is.
A subtle but important difference for our market when Titanium looks incomplete.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Keep in mind that in Europe, Titanium is not the top trim on Edge, Vignale is.
A subtle but important difference for our market when Titanium looks incomplete.

that may be so, but they have offered the same cars with different spec levels to suit different countries before. I believe mustang is different spec here (or a simplified spec lineup) than in the U.S.

It wouldn't be that difficult to ship the vignale model here and badge it titanium surely?

like with most things, the market will dictate the future, whether they leave it the same, or alter things to suit. Ford do tend to respond to public feedback. They increased the Everest rating to MC after public feedback, for example.

[csv8]

https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/edge/models-specs/vignale

[russellw]

Originally Posted by csv8

russelw.."The following didn't make the list as they have no diesel option: Haval H9, Holden Captiva, Jaguar i-Pace, LDV D90, Mazda CX-9, Nissan Pathfinder and Toyota Kluger." My Captiva LTZ has a 2.2 diesel engine. If its a petrol engine it runs very well on diesel !! and the Tech Pack should be standard on the Titanium model.

I've amended the original post. The Captiva didn't make the 'premium' list as it has no model in that price range. You'll note it is included in the entry listing in LT/Z form which is the most expensive model.

Cheers
Russ

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by russellw

I've amended the original post. The Captiva didn't make the 'premium' list as it has no model in that price range. You'll note it is included in the entry listing in LT/Z form which is the most expensive model.

Cheers
Russ

I wouldn't even worry about the Craptiva. It's finished now, only a little bit of dealer stock and then this abomination is no more. Replaced by the Equinox.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wouldn't even worry about the Craptiva. It's finished now, only a little bit of dealer stock and then this abomination is no more. Replaced by the Equinox.

The sad thing is the Captiva outsold the Equinox last month, 323 Captiva / Equinox 258.

The amount Holden has invested advertising the Equinox over the last 12 months really isn't working.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The sad thing is the Captiva outsold the Equinox last month, 323 Captiva / Equinox 258.

The amount Holden has invested advertising the Equinox over the last 12 months really isn't working.

Australians are very resistant to change. A new nameplate tends to take a lot longer to build sales than an existing name, esp if there is an existing product that sells alongside. Toyota released the Fortuna but even with a Toyota badge it's taking a while to take hold.

[davenl5l]

Equinox has terrible highway milage and useless headlights

[csv8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Australians are very resistant to change. A new nameplate tends to take a lot longer to build sales than an existing name, esp if there is an existing product that sells alongside. Toyota released the Fortuna but even with a Toyota badge it's taking a while to take hold.

Maybe they should call Edge Territory not Endura might give it a fighting chance?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by csv8

Maybe they should call Edge Territory not Endura might give it a fighting chance?

wrong. look at commodore.

don't insult the punters. everyone knows its not a territory. giving it a new identity is the correct move.

as for yourself, why do you frequent this forum so much? You continually bag every new product, usually long before it even goes on sale! I don't recall you ever having a positive comment to say about a Ford product.

I understand this forum is quite a good social platform to many but if you don't like a product, just don't click on that thread.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The sad thing is the Captiva outsold the Equinox last month, 323 Captiva / Equinox 258.

The amount Holden has invested advertising the Equinox over the last 12 months really isn't working.

Equinox has been an epic fail. Pumped a shed load of money into advertising too. And no one wants to know about it.

Originally Posted by prydey

Australians are very resistant to change. A new nameplate tends to take a lot longer to build sales than an existing name, esp if there is an existing product that sells alongside. Toyota released the Fortuna but even with a Toyota badge it's taking a while to take hold.

Problem is the Holden badge, not the Equinox one. Brand is poison now.

The Fortuna's problem is it's just crap, and looks crap. For people who are too poor to buy a Prado.

[Dr Smith]

Now that Acadia pricing and specs are out will be interesting to see which way the sales of both Endura and Acadia go..one is diesel only 5-seater aimed by Ford as "premium" the other a petrol only 7 seater which on paper seems to offer better value...until Russell updates his excellent spreadsheets.....
Wonder if Acadia can make inroads into Kluger and CX-9, these being petrol only 7 seaters.
I still feel that for Ford to aim Endura as premium, it's spec list is fine, it's powertrain isn't and it's asking a few grand too much when it cannot offer 7 seats....and a more powerful engine is offered in Ranger and Everest now.

[Vesper Martini]

From what I read about Acadia, it may transition former commodore buyers to an SUV. pretty much the same V6 engine - cheap. it might do ok..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I still feel that for Ford to aim Endura as premium, it's spec list is fine, it's powertrain isn't

I admit I also questioned the engine specs, however now that I know it's kerb weight, which it's about 500kg lighter than territory, with same power and torque, it should actually go ok. I'd imagine the gearing will be better than territory also.

Economy will be more important than performance if the current fuel price trend continues.