Twice as Many P platers died this year than last - Power Restrictions - Page 4

LTDHO · 27-09-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAFalconXT

There is lots of Chinese migrants where I live who cant speak a word of english, who are all starting to buy cars, and cant drive for s**t! All you need is a drivers licence and you can apply for an international licence and can drive anywhere in the world.

They should base licence disqualifications on at fault accidents. There is nothing stopping someone crashing their car every week. But someone who has never crashed in their life and speeds all the time will loose their licence.

This is not a racist comment but it is amazing how many drivers can not understand or read english, yet the hold a drivers licence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

that may help..but think of it. they would get the wrong idea and think that they are more "INVULNERABLE". its the stupid mentalility of a "p" plater when they first get there car.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAFalconXT

They should base licence disqualifications on at fault accidents. There is nothing stopping someone crashing their car every week. But someone who has never crashed in their life and speeds all the time will loose their licence.

As if. Although IMO you should resit your licence after a 'at fault' claim to refresh your skills. It will never happen.

MITCHAY · 27-09-2006, 01:28 PM

I found these whilst googling.

Short version

Long version 39 pages

Note: This isn't national research.

james22 · 27-09-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

But, with simple law changes like no passengers after 10PM for example, then when that P plater wraps himself around a pole, it will be a single fatality instead of multiple.

Or maybe that accident might be stopped all together, as it possibley could have been peer pressure or "showing off" that started it all in the first place.

There are so many variables, but something should be atleast trialed to see if it makes a difference.

Made a good point. Wheres the harm in trying it out? I'm a P plater, although I had my license long before all the new laws came in. But even if the new laws did apply to me, I wouldnt mind that much. There's nothing you can do about the rules anyway.

2 Choices.

Obey them, or Not. :ymca:
No point winging about something you cant change & possibly could save ur life.

4Vman · 27-09-2006, 03:40 PM

I think allot of you are missing the point, the stats show people under the age of 26 (P platers or not) are 2.5 times more likely to be involved in a fatal.... that's an alarming (albiet predictable) stat...
Behavioural issues are 1 reason, inexperience is another reason and so is "bad luck".
But you CANNOT legislate for the minority of people under 26 who are a risk without affecting everyone else under 26. Its simply impossible to be able to discriminate like that.
So if speed, or power or what ever are a significant cause of this increase risk (even if its only half the problem) then you're going to have to expect power restrictions and maybe driver ed programs for EVERYONE under 26.... Because even though its not a problem for everyone, it WILL be a problem for some.
Personally IMO unless you can change the arrogant, invincible, reckless, know-all attitudes of allot of people under 26 towards driving NOTHING in isolation will have much impact on lowering the road toll..

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Fact: Power restriction will do absolutely nothing to minimise the road toll!
A stock 84 Corolla can still do 110kph in an 80 zone the same as a XR6T, except @ 110kph only one car has ABS and airbags.

Road authorities need to have a serous look at it and stop looking for a quick fix.

Exactly how I see it.

4Vman · 27-09-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D1XR2C

Exactly how I see it.

Power restrictions WILL without any question stop some of the deaths, not all of them. There is no single cause or solution.
The only thing debatable is what % will it stop..

By the way, arent power restrictions already in force??

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessxg

Perhaps the purpose power restrictions is to get rid of the petrolhead mentality in young people. If they don't have a car to brag about that can beat rx, the thought won't exist that they have to prove a point?

I can hardly see everyone racing around their excels.

I understand the actual statistics of the situation i'm describing is minimal, but maybe it's our Aussie culture thats responsible for the road toll in p platers, and that's the idea behind the power restrictions.

Not to be rude but

You'd be quite wrong, I see plenty of buzz boxes/**** boxes drag racing, drifting etc
To get the thrill of a turbo or V8, they will just push their 4 and 6's harder with **** brakes and so on.....

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Acceleration doesn't kill, it's the stop that does.
Both cars get hooned!
One will oversteer from boost, the other will oversteer from the 165 tyres!

Agreeing with everything you say.... LTDHO, knows whats going on....

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Power restrictions WILL without any question stop some of the deaths, not all of them. There is no single cause or solution.
The only thing debatable is what % will it stop..

By the way, arent power restrictions already in force??

It will stop a few p platers the ones that play NFSU then go out for a drive. Yep, no turbo, no V8.

the black pig · 27-09-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessxg

What does everyone think about graphic ad campaigns? Do you reckon they have much of an effect? What about on the effect on the"non-hoons"? Is it fair for them?

Whether a campaign uses graphic imagery or not isn't the point. It's whether advertising can make the target believe the grisly imagery applies to them. Most times it can't, because people have an incredibly agile and slippery way of denying reality and convincing themselves that certain unpleasant scenarios don't apply to them.

Advertising is a crude and imprecise tool. Donating taxpayers' money to the TV networks via a splatter-and-gore-based advertising campaign is probably the worst way to solve an attitudinal or behavioural problem. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know we haven't even properly identified the problem yet.

I think these road deaths are just a symptom of something bigger and more profound. Look at it this way. A sub-group of the world's population - young men in their late teens and early 20s - doesn't just contribute disproportionately to the world's road toll, it has the highest incidence of suicide, the highest incidence of work injuries, of non-car related accidents, and interestingly, seems to provide the most ideal recruits for suicide bomber training.

There is something about late adolescence, the onset of male hormones, and social and familial pressures, which a certain percentage of young men in every society and across all cultures don't deal with. As a result they exhibit self-destructive behaviours.

Unfortunately, agenda pushers and issue hijackers like Scruby, our more talentless politicians, and the infotainment media cloud the issues by failing to understand the problem, and demanding ill-conceived and ineffective solutions. There is no band-aid solution for young men's propensity for dying - on the roads, and everywhere else. And with the current hysteric-driven mind-set that Scruby promotes and our politicians perpetuate, we’re in no position to find one.

However, we can stop denying the fact that society as a whole has and will pay a price in lives for having the convenience and utility of roads and cars. And that young men, as a group, pay a disproportionately high price for being human.

Maybe, in the short term, we can profile every young man to identify those most at risk of self-destructive behaviours, and then deny them on a one-on-one basis, a licence to kill themselves on the road, at least until they've survived their journey through the valley of the shadow of death.

In the longer term, maybe we can come up with a programme which, in addressing the broader issues and risks of male early adulthood, incidentally solves the problem of their behaviour on the roads.

For now, we can accept that for a short period of their lives, the young men in our families are at specially high risk (and not just on the roads, either), and be vigilant, and do what we can on an individual, case-by-case basis, to manage those risks, and help them through. And ignore the cynical self-promotion of people like Scruby and the tabloid/populist media who cloud the issues with self-serving dramatics and hysteria.

pig

Men aged 17 to 20 account for 33 per cent of all convictions for dangerous driving, despite making up just three per cent of drivers.

young men in the 17 to 20 age group are five times more likely than a man aged 30 to 59 to be involved in a road accident where someone is killed or injured.

Men aged 16-24 have a substantially higher risk of all workplace injury than older men workers (40% higher than 45-54 group) after allowance for job characteristics. For women, there is no substantial variation in risk of injury between age groups.

The rate of all workplace injury is substantially higher in young men, 16-24, compared with men aged 45-54. From the 1996/97 LFS, the rate is 6.7 per 100 men workers aged 16-19 and is 8.4 for men aged 20-24, compared with 4.9 for men aged 45-54. The rate is 37% higher for 16-19 year olds and over 70% higher in 20-24 year olds. Young men, aged 16-24, still face a 40% higher relative risk of all workplace injury than men aged 45-54 even after allowing for occupations and other job characteristics.

According to ILO estimates for younger and older workers: Young workers aged 15-24 are much more likely to suffer non-fatal but serious accidents at work compared to their older colleagues. In the European Union, for example, the incidence rate for non-fatal accidents is at least 50 per cent higher among workers aged 18-24 than in any other age category.

In Australia, fatal injuries involving electricity are twice as common amongst younger workers than amongst their older colleagues, according to the National Occupational Health & Safety Commission.

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-09-2006, 04:06 PM

Same old argument and same old responses, P platers feel singled out and make excuses, we all know the truth, many more P platers are reckless and overconfident than older drivers, the only cure for this is time and experience.
Remember, we were all young once, i had 3 speeding fines in 3 months as a P plater, now i have not had one for many years.
And for those saying power restrictions do nothing, have a think about what you are saying, a car that that lights up the rear bags at 100kph is a handful for anyone let alone a new driver.

FPV8U · 27-09-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Same old argument and same old responses, P platers feel singled out and make excuses, we all know the truth, many more P platers are reckless and overconfident than older drivers, the only cure for this is time and experience.
Remember, we were all young once, i had 3 speeding fines in 3 months as a P plater, now i have not had one for many years.
And for those saying power restrictions do nothing, have a think about what you are saying, a car that that lights up the rear bags at 100kph is a handful for anyone let alone a new driver.

I agree as a P Plater that there are more of us that Speed and Hoon but not all of us.

Quote:

Since the new laws - including banning P-platers from driving high-powered cars - were introduced in July last year, there has been a 37 per cent increase in the number of 17- to 20-year-old drivers killed on NSW roads.

Maybe this will open up some other state govenments eyes that Power to Weight ratio's and banning things Left right and center don't fix the probalem.

Lets face it if someone wants to be an idiot in a car they are going to do it whether it's in a Ea Falcon or a BA XR8.

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 04:46 PM

And for those saying power restrictions do nothing, have a think about what you are saying, a car that that lights up the rear bags at 100kph is a handful for anyone let alone a new driver.[/QUOTE]

A new driver with a "I can handle anything attitude"

SVT8 · 27-09-2006, 05:13 PM

power restrictions do come into play, but a car is a car and most cars nowadays can easily exceed 150km. It all comes down to the person driving the car.......... The most likely p'platers that will cause an accident are those who's parents lack education and whose kids dont have respect for themselves or others. Ever wonder why VL turbo's are a popular target?Its because most of the people driving just dont care for anything.

I drive a v8 and im well aware of what is right and what is wrong. I have respect for myself and others, and i would kill myself if my car was in an accident!. Why? beacuse i worked hard for it and apreciate it. It just comes down to the actual mind of the person behind the wheel. A person who doesnt give a **** and loves to show off to their mates will most likely be the ones speeding, and that means that everyone else who are sensible drivers on the roads get punished?.

The way people obtain there P's is just to easy, there needs to be a harder test. That should sort out the hoons from the good drivers, beacuse the hoons wont be able to understand how to pass the test.

majin_andrew · 27-09-2006, 05:23 PM

Power doesn't kill people imo, stupid idiot behaviour kills people. A young driver can easily kill himself / herself being stupid in a Corolla.

yoda598 · 27-09-2006, 05:42 PM

as a P- Plater in my town there are some really stupid guy's on there p's and im getting shitty bout the fact that the stupid behavour of them gives the other law abiding p platers a bad name when we did nothing wrong and im sure other p' platers on this site can say the same

4Vman · 27-09-2006, 05:52 PM

5 years ago i was heading home along a straight 60KPH road in Boxhill with my wife, it was dark, there was light drizzle so the roads were greasy. Coming towards me in the other direction a P plate driver in a "fully sic" VL turbo started swaying uncontrollably and speared into my drivers door at about 80kph (combined speed differential of 140kph), we spun 3 times and plowed backwards into a tree, he spun down the road and stopped.
The impact caved the 2 drivers side doors in and tore the Diff out of my EF Falcon, the car was a write off, the air bags went off, we both got out with only whiplash and air bag burns on my arms.
When i managed to calm and console my wife and get us both out of the wreck safely and compose myself i confronted said moron, his excuse was "my turbo kicked in and i lost it mate...., im so sorry"
I had to walk away or risk choking him to death....
Anyone who says power isn't an issue for P platers is very WRONG, sure he was driving like a moron, but in a less powerful car he might not have lost control so easily and violently.
Im lucky he didnt hit me more flush on or i might not be here to talk about it.

EBII Fairmont · 27-09-2006, 05:59 PM

I wonder how many people in the age group have actually acquired their p's, because it seems like usual a very small sample of idiots ruins things for the rest of us.

Not all P-platers are perfect, I have stuffed up at times, but never put anyone in danger. Just before, i jumped out of my car, n this morone in a vl came passed me smoking it up. He only missed me by inches. These are the ******* I hate, because they make it dificult for the rest of us.

How about these morons are stripped of driving normal cars, and are instead only aloud to drive cars which only run on 2cylinders, ad only 1 gear, and are limited to 20km/h :dr_Evil:. This may teach them that it is a privlidge to have a liscence.

GCFordChic · 27-09-2006, 06:07 PM

There are
Lies,
Damned Lies, and
Statistics. :alien2:

I don’t believe everything the media decides they want to tell me, I’m questionable about the background on all these "Facts", but that doesn’t make me blind to reality... :monkes:

I’m 19, I’m on my p plates for another couple of months, I drive a V8 with modifications to increase performance, and sometimes I borrow my parent's Focus (standard) or their Daewoo (cringe...lol).
I can make an educated guess that I am much, much, more likely to be in a serious accident in the Pursuit 250 than either of their cars, whether completely at fault or not. I try, try, try, my hardest to be a sensible responsible driver all of the time. In all reality, I am not perfect and 5% of the time I like to 'gun' it a little when taking off from the lights to get up to the speed limit. I am not a lunatic in the Ute, but I do things I wouldn’t bother doing in my parents car because the sound of the Daewoo struggling when I put my foot down to go up a hill, makes me shudder when I’m in the car. There is no fun in driving a Nubira...

HOWEVER when in the Ute I always have these urges to put the pedal to the floor when accelerating or feel a need to go fast...I just have to tell myself not to.
I’m not an Angel, I’m not a hoon, but I only get urges to do irresponsible things IN THE UTE.

Novice drivers have everything experienced drivers do, EXCEPT EXPERIENCE! In all aspects of life, experience is a valuable resource, insurance companies, employers, clients etc all recognise this, but so many novice drivers (L and P plates) don’t seem to accept it. They (or should I be saying ‘we’ because I am one of them?) want all privileges that more experienced drivers are allowed. Give me a surgeon with 25 years under the belt over a guy straight out of training any day!

I say bring on EDUCATION and RESTRICTIONS. :eclipsee_

BUT remember when you take off the P’s you are not automatically “experienced” accidents and fatalities still involve drivers over 21, you can still be a crappy driver all your life…hence why I believe education is the better avenue for long term change.

(Apologies for the length of my post...

:

: )

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 06:16 PM

i find that when i'm in a less powerful car i flog the **** out of it because i'm used to accelerating with power, and i try to equal the mild acceleration of a V8 but it has to be flat out in gutless car.

Falcon SXR8 · 27-09-2006, 06:17 PM

As much as I hate to admit it power restrictions are needed more now than they were 10 years ago. Cars horsepower has increased alot back then the hotest thing around had 180kw and young blokes couldn't afford them beacuse they were new and cost alot, but now you can get a 260kw xr8 for around $25000 and that price will come down. Imagine 260kw xr8s for $10 000 and young hoons getting them scary stuff hey.

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 06:19 PM

i think the conditions of the roads is partly to blame, theres potholes and bumps and patches

poolkeeper · 27-09-2006, 06:20 PM

[QUOTE=GCFordChic]
I say bring on EDUCATION and RESTRICTIONS. :eclipsee_

You say cause that because you have a V8, what about the people wanting a V8 or turbo since they were 6 years old, grew up with performance vehicles, no tickets/fines. Wanting to go to the track to thrash their car etc ........

Nemesis737 · 27-09-2006, 06:21 PM

Out of all these statistics placed forward to us, I cannot remember the last time that I saw how many accidents and fatalities that people over 25 were involved.....

If the roles were reversed, and you were an 18yr old told that you can't drive a car you just bought, or pretty much that you had no skill of driving, What would you say? Sure, most people will say that they understand and are fine with it, but 90% of people I recon would feel the same way as the youth...

One thing I don't get is that if the RTA adds a car to the banned car list, it is the responsibility of the community to regularly check it to see if their car has miraculously became banned...

The curfews are just stupid. When I was under 18 I was the family bus when we went over to friends places/restaurants/bbq's etc. What about emergencies, greater amount of people on the road at these hours...

With the differences between a XR6T and a 84 corolla... These "kids" are gonna drive both of em hard, but they are gonna push the corolla harder because it is a ***** car, and therefore take unneccary risks trying to get the most performance out of it as possible...

Another contributing factor about the over 26... The majority of those over 26 can afford the cars with numerous airbags (lowering fitalities if a crash occurs) and ABS/TCS/Better handling (preventing crashes).

This is just another instance of the gun laws. If someone wants to shoot someone, they'll shoot em with an unregistered gun as quickly as a registered one. Cars are the same instance, these laws are useless, because if the p-plater wants to drive a car, they'll drive it dispite what laws are placed on them. These laws (both gun and P1/P2) only hurt those that actually follow the laws and aren't the ones doing 150kph in a 60 zone...

Really... How many people on a reputable site like this are going to be the ones crashing their cars/ being idiots?

: I'm sure a few people are going to disagree with me (not naming names), but thats just my feelings about it and... yeh...

DOC · 27-09-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

i think the conditions of the roads is partly to blame, theres potholes and bumps and patches

Mate don't blame the roads one bit, you drive to the conditions, road stuffed, take your foot of the pedal.

Overall a sad post at the end of the day, people loosing thier lives / families devestated.

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 06:36 PM

7 p platers died in the first seven months, i bet there was about 60 deaths by that time, so that means 53 non p platers died in the first 7 months. but lets attack the p platers anyway,

and this **** about having to be 18 to get a licence, how the **** are people gonna get a job with no licence, and **** the 60km/h in a 100km/h zone grannies off the road, that's probably why people crash, from swerving them when they come around a corner at 100km/h

EBFalcs · 27-09-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

Mate don't blame the roads one bit, you drive to the conditions, road stuffed, take your foot of the pedal.

Overall a sad post at the end of the day, people loosing thier lives / families devestated.

what about when you go around a corner and theres a dirty big ditch in the road and a cars in the oppisite direction

GCFordChic · 27-09-2006, 06:40 PM

[QUOTE=D1XR2C]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

I say bring on EDUCATION and RESTRICTIONS. :eclipsee_

You say cause that because you have a V8, what about the people wanting a V8 or turbo since they were 6 years old, grew up with performance vehicles, no tickets/fines. Wanting to go to the track to thrash their car etc ........

I re-emphasise my post. Education for long term changes to the quality of driving standard, restrictions for short term changes to number of fatalities on the roads.

GCFordChic · 27-09-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

7 p platers died in the first seven months, i bet there was about 60 deaths by that time, so that means 53 non p platers died in the first 7 months. but lets attack the p platers anyway,

Novice drivers must have to focus drawn on them to change the driving population long term. Your argument about the other drivers has already been discussed, the RATIO of novice:experienced and the number of crashes each are involved in is what is important, not the number.

DOC · 27-09-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBFalcs

what about when you go around a corner and theres a dirty big ditch in the road and a cars in the oppisite direction

Buddy, call how you wan't and i have read some of your posts, i have driven many years on many roads across australia ( mostly in high powered cars ) and i will never travel a new road at speed, i will if i do not know the road take the pedal off the metal, so to say what if i came around a corner and i find a big pot hole, i promise you i would be at a speed i can control the car.

Talk it up all you like but your comment holds no weight or can not be deemed as some sort of excuse.