WTF !!! VE Wheels Car Of The Year !!!!

[DJL351]

I've driven the VE. It was an SS manual.

It was okay..... on par with the BA BF Falcons of the same type (XR8's)

I'm bias, yes, but I went with an open mind because of all the hype and BS
people were talking about it leaving us in the stone age.

Having driven my best mates VZ/VY SV6 I had the previous model to compare against too.
Some things were better, over the VZ and BA/BF, but I see it more as an equal to Ford's current cars than a big step forward.

The dealer wouldn't let me loose in any HSV's. :

D :

[MITCHAY]

What's funny is some people will say that it is crap in on sentence and then in another say that it has only caught up to the BA/BF.

That to me implies that they must think that the BA/BF is crap! :

[uranium_death]

The Commodore represents a good complete package, and is also a new car which captures the imagination of everybody.
Although the Falcon has superior transmission and a superior 6 cylinder (which is what most Australians go for), the car is essentially a four year old (5 later this year) design.

Holden have worked on safety and handling to make a better car.

My dispute with WCOTY is that the gullibles will believe that the Falcon is a piece of poo compared to the Commodore which is untrue. The Commodore are on the front foot atm, so IMO, Ford need to only improve handling, interiors, pricing etc. a little, but ensure the car looks modern and tasteful to the masses.

Everbody new Commodore body wins the award, but I am not surprised. Most people I talk to prefer Holden because they win the V8s. Australians love bandwagons. Looks at St Kilda and Sydney. Dead one year, thriving the next.

I wonder...

And yes, I do believe the crap I type. I like crap. It tastes better then Victoria Bitter or Coke.

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Cant you just be happy the Aurion didnt win ?
lol

The VK 6 would have been too costly to engineer to run on unleaded.

At the time every test gave the VN the win over the EA, despite the EA having OHC.
so u know...

No, I'm unhappy the S-Class didn't win.

Behind that, even though I don't like Toyota, I still would've picked the Aurion over the VE ANYDAY!

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

What's funny is some people will say that it is crap in on sentence and then in another say that it has only caught up to the BA/BF.

That to me implies that they must think that the BA/BF is crap! :

A assume you are refering to me?

The Falcon is not the PERFECT car....... the VE is NOT either.

Both have issues that I don't like. Some major, some minor and some are just personal "feel" type things.

Overal the VE is on par with the BF. IMO
They claim the VE leaves the rest behind..... I see it as they've just unlapped themselves and are now moving ahead.

If you back to back test both cars, you will better understand what I'm trying to say.
You find they might "feel" different to sit in and look different..... but are really level across the board.

D

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by DJL351

A assume you are refering to me?

No I wasn't. Just a lot of people have said that. It wasn't referrenced to anyone in particular

[Teggy]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Well done, VE. Finally caught up with the BA of 2002. This proves it.

It took them over twice the BA's budget to do so Iam pretty sure.

[drcook]

Originally Posted by marco351

thats crap. the bf2 falcon is better.

an excellent educated reply. the bf2 didnt win the award, because its not in the competition. because its NOT A NEW CAR!.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Teggy

It took them over twice the BA's budget to do so Iam pretty sure.

Yes, but the BA wasnt an entirely new car, where as the VE is a new car from the dirt up.

The BFII is a great for companines and fleets but sadly it won't sell well with the private market. Its looking very tired and once you've had a few, you tend to get over it. The thing i like the most about the VE/WM is that each model can easily be distingiushed from another. Another thing going for holden is the ESP standard and also the side curtain airbags, which Ford dont even have...

[drcook]

Originally Posted by boy02

wheels car of the year is a terrible test anyway they will always award it to the new car on the block

erm.... thats what the test is for.....

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yes, but the BA wasnt an entirely new car, where as the VE is a new car from the dirt up.

The BFII is a great for companines and fleets but sadly it won't sell well with the private market. Its looking very tired and once you've had a few, you tend to get over it. The thing i like the most about the VE/WM is that each model can easily be distingiushed from another. Another thing going for holden is the ESP standard and also the side curtain airbags, which Ford dont even have...

That is exactly what I like about them most! Whilst some might argue you don't get much for the money, they can sell them on that point because if you pay more it looks like you are getting more.

Remember you only have to make it look like you are getting value to sell these things to most people without it actually offering more.

[Teggy]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yes, but the BA wasnt an entirely new car, where as the VE is a new car from the dirt up.

The BFII is a great for companines and fleets but sadly it won't sell well with the private market. Its looking very tired and once you've had a few, you tend to get over it. The thing i like the most about the VE/WM is that each model can easily be distingiushed from another. Another thing going for holden is the ESP standard and also the side curtain airbags, which Ford dont even have...

True, although there wasnt a large amount carried over.

Holden are now 1 model ahead with the VE, lets see how things go in 2008

[boy02]

Ford beat GMH in the sales stakes with the XP & XR, and when ppl think of aussie muscle car they think XY GTHO.......[QUOTE]

thats funny the only thing that cums to mind wen i think XY GTHO is a car that can be beaten round bathurst by a non turbo'd inline six but that might just be me

[drcook]

i have to laugh at the majority of replies, and thank god you arent motoring journo's.

the ve shouldnt have won because its ugly! - YOUR opinion. there would be as many, if not more, people who thinks it looks good. not judgable or comparable and doensnt have any effect on performance, features, dynamics or impact to the industry.

the bf is better! - the bf is not a new car, hence its not in this competition. like the ve wont be in the competition in 08 when the orion is most likely to win.

its had recalls! - so has the ba falcon. i love my xr6turb, but its been back to the dealership so many times in the 2 years ive owned it i know the service men, their wives & kids by first name. and it won COTY.

the ve isnt much better than the old commodore! - rubbish and you all know it. also what world-altering changes have occured to the aurion or bmw 3 from thier last respective models?

i have no problem with anyone replying that they dont think it should have won, but could you please nominate who you think should have won it in your same thread. im interested.

[drcook]

Originally Posted by Teggy

True, although there wasnt a large amount carried over.

the vast majority of development dollars goes into chassis design, contruction & testing and production line changes.

the au to ba change did not need a new chassis and the production line changes were far more minor than vz to ve.

[XBROO]

Yeah! Least it an aussie car. But it looks to euro for my liking. Like an over grown mazda 6. Why are car manufactures going for the euro look? If you took the badges of some of them its hard to tell them apart. Somebody bring back the Australian muscle cars instead of BMW look alikes.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Quote:
Originally Posted by colossus
and the fact the exterior and interior styling has been stolen straight from Audi...........


More like BMW. Fords BA styling came fromt he Audi as the guy who designed it originally came from Audi.

Actually didnt Holden use Audi as a benchmark for the commodore? The Falcon looks nothing like any Audi Ive seen.

Ive never driven a VE so I cant make any comment there and IMO they look crap (and so thinks the Holden buff at work) but if they are really that good engineering wise then good on them, they should win. They have put alot of effort in and can reap the rewards.

It just means that Ford will make sure the Orion's better than the VE and continue the cycle so that can only be good for Australian car buyers.

[WASP]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yes sad that my $48 k Calais can wip your $65,000 BF GT which is suposed to be a HERO Car.

Brent, you have come along way haven't you. The GT will always be Ford's Hero car even if it was slower than a 3.6 Omega. You of all people should know that, as every blue bloody person should. The GT has 'something' that the Calais and even the SSV can not touch, regardless of how old, unrefined or slow it gets in comparision. Regardless of how good your lovely VE maybe, don't fool yourself into thinking it's on the same page. If you don't understand what I mean, then you never will,... but I think you do. :voldar02:

P.S Congrats to Holden for wining the award.

[colossus]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

(Gee wiz Ford are still using a 4 Speed auto to).

Its funny how one of the Six Speed Auto Fords fell appart on a test day not so long ago.

The BA had 2 major recalls in the first few months, one for side airbags and another for rear axel issues. Your point being? It still won car of the year in 02.

More like BMW. Fords BA styling came fromt he Audi as the guy who designed it originally came from Audi.

Yes maybe but the Falcons no better. None of the Falcons ive owned have lived up to the fuel consumption stickers on them, so at the end of the day prescribed fuel consumption really means jackshit.

Holden has better resale then ford due to brand popularity although its still pretty ****, but come on wake up and smell the roses, as if either is really good in the resale department.

Yes sad that my $48 k Calais can wip your $65,000 BF GT which is suposed to be a HERO Car.



Fair enough, im not here to bag you because what you say isn't really true, but at the end of the day both Ford and Holden manufacture some of the best sedans in the world, its a shame we can't all appreciate both manufacturers for what they offer.

Lol relax - my post was not meant to upset anyone - I dont take things very seriously...very tongue in cheek. :evil3:

PS: I never said Ford was any better!
PPS: My car is a perk of the job, so I couldnt really care how good it is - its mostly free, which is the most important thing. $65K vs $48K, what does it matter? Both of us would be whipped by a $10K new bike.
PPPS: Whats for dinner?

[Deadman]

Ah well, I'd bet money now that in 2008 the Orion Falcon will be Wheels Car of the Year, and it'll **** all over the VE. The difference being, it took Holden nearly 5 years to start catching up, and I wouldn't be supprised if in just over 12 months they'll be just as far behind again.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by V8GLI

Actually didnt Holden use Audi as a benchmark for the commodore? The Falcon looks nothing like any Audi Ive seen..

They all use euro cars as benchmarks.

The first 5 BMW X5s delivered in Australia that were non-BMW fleet were delivered to FORD!!!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by CDAA

Brent, you have come along way haven't you. The GT will always be Ford's Hero car even if it was slower than a 3.6 Omega. You of all people should know that, as every blue bloody person should. The GT has 'something' that the Calais and even the SSV can not touch, regardless of how old, unrefined or slow it gets in comparision. Regardless of how good your lovely VE maybe, don't fool yourself into thinking it's on the same page. If you don't understand what I mean, then you never will,... but I think you do. :voldar02:

P.S Congrats to Holden for wining the award.

hey col,

I may have been a little critical of the GT but for a 65k performance car you should be sitting at the top of the league, the FPV doesnt offer that unless you get the Typhoon. As for this 'something' you talk about you can get the same 'something' from buying an XR8. Im lost with this thought as to whats so special about a car thats out performed and out handled by its own smaller brothers and sisters (eg. XR6 Turbo). You cant tell me a starter button and a few GT badges makes it the ducks nuts.

I definately think the T series cars were more special then the FPV products, atleast when you bought a TS-50 you got something that was different and unique.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by V8GLI

Actually didnt Holden use Audi as a benchmark for the commodore? The Falcon looks nothing like any Audi Ive seen.

Holden Used Primarily BMW & then Mercedes for the design cues, hense the minimal overhang on the front of the car and the side vents M Specish vents which appeared on the VZ SS that was styled on the theme of an Aston Martin.

Ford Modeled the rear of the BA off Audi (look at the Panel joins and tail lights)

My Dad has a VE Omega for his company car. Its great for space and comfort and it handles great. But that frickin cut price HFV6 Is Gutless and the Transmission is Just about as bad, even with the software upgrades. On our way to and from Hat Head on the Mid North Coast, I got nervous everytime we overtook..the thing just lacked top end acceleration and the gearbox didnt help. The car was loaded up with gear and 4 passengers but I can remember Dads Falcon Lapping up the same work. In my opinion. Lack of power can be a safety risk. And lack of power is where the V6 VE's fail.
COTY? Maybe the V8's.

[Wally]

Isn't it odd that the VE is actually modelled on the TT36, which was displayed in 2004 at the motor shows. Conservatively that would mean that the design was done around 2002.

So what did the Audi look like in 2002... something like this? Maybe this?. One could be forgiven if they thought that maybe the Audi was actually a bite from the TT36.

How about a 2002 BMW 7 series? Maybe an M3? Nah can't see the resemblance.

Must be the Merc then? Yeah that's it. It's a dead ringer for the VE commodore.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Wally

Isn't it odd that the VE is actually modelled on the TT36, which was displayed in 2004 at the motor shows. Conservatively that would mean that the design was done around 2002.

So what did the Audi look like in 2002... something like this? Maybe this?. One could be forgiven if they thought that maybe the Audi was actually a bite from the TT36.

Um...ok?

How about a 2002 BMW 7 series? Maybe an M3? Nah can't see the resemblance.

Have a look at the Side profile of the SS and then try and tell me that again Wally...I've been reading about the VE since it first started seeping into the media and I think I can even recall Holden stylists/designers saying they were getting cues from European cars like BMW (Shape and Profile) and Mercedes (Elements of the interior

Must be the Merc then? Yeah that's it. It's a dead ringer for the VE commodore.

Its not about blatant copying, its about design influences...now go and flush those smart ars pills down the toilet.

[WASP]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

As for this 'something' you talk about you can get the same 'something' from buying an XR8. You cant tell me a starter button and a few GT badges makes it the ducks nuts.

No you can't. Been there had an XR8 remember. If all the GT is to you is a starter button and a few badges then I'm lost for words quite frankly, but there you go. The VE is a 'nice' car and I'm sure you'll be very happy together, but it's constant defence on this Ford discussion forum is becoming tiring. I'm interested in the VE to, particularly the HSV range but that's what LS1.com.au is there for isn't it?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by colossus

but hey apart from all that it really deserves car of the year as it has a old pushrod 6.0L V8 that is fast.

Whereas OHC technology, dating back as far as 1917 (I think even further, but 1917 in a running production vehicle) is so much 'newer' and 'more advanced,' then pushrod with its heritage in 1913. _

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Bucket

.

Ford Modeled the rear of the BA off Audi (look at the Panel joins and tail lights)

Due to one of the top Audi designers coming to Ford during the BA design phase...can't remember his name, though.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Nah I cant see any similarities here :

Like Bucket said even Holden says that it used design influences of Audi, BMW and Mercedes in their design.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Whereas OHC technology, dating back as far as 1917 (I think even further, but 1917 in a running production vehicle) is so much 'newer' and 'more advanced,' then pushrod with its heritage in 1913. _

About time someone said it.

I hate it when people slag off OHVs for being old tech (Usually boy racers and their fulli sik DOHC 4s), when OHCs and DOHCs are just as old. (Maybe a bit newer, but not by much)