$683,650 GTHO Phase 3

[red_hotxr6]

You would have to think that there were at least 2 people bidding for this car to get it there..

[MO]

The guy that bought it has about twenty cars in his collection including the Monaro.

His name is Darryl and he borrowed the money to buy it...his collateral..his property investments and yes he is hoping in one to two years to sell it for a million.

[Trevor 57]

It has on done 25,000 miles, about 35,000 - 40,000 kilometres.

This is the link I got the pics from, they are a bit clearer than the ones I posted, the link also gives a bit of history of the car.

GTHO III Auction Link

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

It has on done 25,000 miles, about 35,000 - 40,000 kilometres.

This is the link I got the pics from, they are a bit clearer than the ones I posted, the link also gives a bit of history of the car.

GTHO III Auction Link

Um not quite, a full resto after ony 25K miles? dont think so....
A clever wording on the ad: "the clock shows 25K miles"... those speedo's only go to 99999 so it could be 125000, 225000 etc.
Once a car is restored its impossible to verify its original condition..

[flappist]

A point to concider with all this muscle car stuff is what happens if they get banned?

The X series Fords, H series Holdens are now quite old and technologically ancient. They are very petrol inneficient and compared to current vehicles quite unsafe with no crumple zones, ABS, disc brakes, power steering etc. They also produce much more pollution than new cars.

With the current greenie and "anti hoon" trend it would be easy to push these vehicles into the same category as model Ts etc and make them only registerable as club vehicles and driven on organsied rallys etc.

The counter arguement against this has always been that this disadvantages the poor but now these cars are no longer being driven by the poor. That is the e-series and VH commodore domain.

How much will your prized XY GT replica be worth when there suddenly are lots of them for sale and you need to join an apporved club to own one and can only drive a maximum of 12 times a year and as a "classic" it must comply with the original specs e.g. if it was made a 6 it must remain a 6, V8 conversion is not allowed.

The "historic" and "enthusiest" arguements were used by the shooting lobby some years ago and you have all seen the result.

These cars are only worth heaps because they are wanted and can be played with. If they are restricted they will become almost worthless.

e.g. In 1995 a 15 year old M16A1 rifle was worth $10-15k (I used to sell them). 1996 they were banned for the general public. In 1998 I bought a brand new M16A3 for $1200. I could own it as I had the required licence but had a potential customer base of bugger all. I sold it in 2002 for $1000. The game was over.

I hope they don't do this to cars but if we get a greenie controlled senate later this year such insanity is on the cards......

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

A point to concider with all this muscle car stuff is what happens if they get banned?

.....

I honestly can't ever see this happening because there's no reason to, the cars will still pass current roadworthy standards if properly maintained. Ive never seen data to suggest they're any more likely to be involved in accidents due to "vehicle error" than any other vehicle.

"generally" speaking id say these expensive classic musclecars get babied and driven more carefully than current crop of performance vehicles, so the "hoon" tag really doesnt apply to the old school classic musclecar owners.. more and more seem to be wealthy investors.. not the "bogans" of the 80's!

[normxb]

Originally Posted by flappist

A point to concider with all this muscle car stuff is what happens if they get banned?

The X series Fords, H series Holdens are now quite old and technologically ancient. They are very petrol inneficient and compared to current vehicles quite unsafe with no crumple zones, ABS, disc brakes, power steering etc. They also produce much more pollution than new cars.

The "historic" and "enthusiest" arguements were used by the shooting lobby some years ago and you have all seen the result.

These cars are only worth heaps because they are wanted and can be played with. If they are restricted they will become almost worthless.

e.g. In 1995 a 15 year old M16A1 rifle was worth $10-15k (I used to sell them). 1996 they were banned for the general public. In 1998 I bought a brand new M16A3 for $1200. I could own it as I had the required licence but had a potential customer base of bugger all. I sold it in 2002 for $1000. The game was over.

I hope they don't do this to cars but if we get a greenie controlled senate later this year such insanity is on the cards......

I know what you mean , flappist , E series (288,000k's) is the best we can afford , the XB was left to me by my Dad and I can't see us buying another car in the near future . A least it's an ED Fairmont with ABS but no "airbags" (except the Mrs, haha ) .

On the Firearmes side . I'm lucky to live in the country & have cousins with farms , I can show "reasonable cause" to own them . I was given a .22 Mag from a city guy as he couldn't show reason to have it , my cousin can get an exemption for semi-auto (semi-pro shooter) , as you said , older cars are still legal registerable at the moment , but for how long ?

Big Trev
My 74 XB shows 34,316 on the speedo (got it rego'd a couple of weeks ago) but the car has been in the family since New and I Know it's done 100,000 more than that .

[Rev28K]

Flappist wouldn’t that be a blatant “tax against the poor”.

This would be unpopular with the voters, therefore very unlikely to be implemented.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I can't ever see this happening, there's no reason to, the cars will still pass current roadworthy standards if properly maintained. Ive never seen data to suggest they're any more likely to be involved in accidents due to "vehicle error" than any other vehicle.

"generally" speaking id say these expensive classic musclecars get babied and driven more carefully than current crop of performance vehicles, so the "hoon" tag really doesnt apply to the old school classic musclecar owners..

Reasons to:
1) They generate much more pollution than new cars.
2) They do not have all the safety features of new cars.
3) They use far more fuel than new cars.
4) Exclusive classic cars are hardly ever driven so being banned from general rego will no affect then at all.

This will get emotional. You are trying to use logic and sense, this never works. As I said, I hope it doesn't happen but the arguements against them are in line with current agenda and car enthusiests are constantly being villified.

If this does become a punchup, the media will only ever interview a fully sick bogan with a fowl mouth who will scream "Personal rights" and "Government conspiracy" and will set the cause back further.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Reasons to:
1) They generate much more pollution than new cars.
2) They do not have all the safety features of new cars.
3) They use far more fuel than new cars.
4) Exclusive classic cars are hardly ever driven so being banned from general rego will no affect then at all.

This will get emotional. You are trying to use logic and sense, this never works. As I said, I hope it doesn't happen but the arguements against them are in line with current agenda and car enthusiests are constantly being villified.

If this does become a punchup, the media will only ever interview a fully *** bogan with a fowl mouth who will scream "Persoal rights" and "Government conspiracy" and will set the cause back further.

Yes, true, i can just see it now, mullet wearing bogan in his 6cyl GT replica doing "doughies" on parlament lawn.... :

Seriously though i cant see it ever being a blip on the greenies radar... There'd have to be data to support a position like that.
If out of control GT's and Monaro's were ploughing through school yards on a weekly basis there might be trouble..
I do know however there are quite a few MP's who own and collect classics like GT's, so it will be a tough sell internally first!! :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Flappist wouldn’t that be a blatant “tax against the poor”.

This would be unpopular with the voters, therefore very unlikely to be implemented.

There are very few poor people driving XYGTs.

If you have no money but need a car do you:
a) buy a XB falcon for $3k that gets 15l/100km on a good day
b) an EB falcon for $3k that gets 10l/100km
c) a toyota crown etc that gets 8l/100km

If you are poor then the extra $20 per week in petrol is a MAJOR problem isn't it?

[Rev28K]

Hmm. Britain has used the “speeding is bad for your emissions” argument and I think France had some sort of bounty on old cars (government pays you $500 to buy an old car from you that will then be crushed).

I shudder at the thought of the last one.

One of the arguments in the oldies favour would be that it takes more to dig up ore, smelter, refine, etc to produce a new car than it does to keep an old polluter running around.

[GTPete]

I dont think the polution argument holds weight. You rarely see an old car (GT's etc) on the road and if you do its on its once a month drive. So while there not as efficient as late model cars there hardly used, so overall they would contribute very little polution.

Safety wise, driving an older GT means you have to be 3 steps ahead. They dont brake or steer as well so you allow for this. Your always antipating other drivers actions. Im more aware in an old GT then I am in a late model car because of this.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, true, i can just see it now, mullet wearing bogan in his 6cyl GT replica doing "doughies" on parlament lawn.... :

Seriously though i cant see it ever being a blip on the greenies radar... There'd have to be data to support a position like that.
If out of control GT's and Monaro's were ploughing through school yards on a weekly basis there might be trouble..
I do know however there are quite a few MP's who own and collect classics like GT's, so it will be a tough sell internally first!! :

The minister for police in Tasmania was a member and past president of the Tasmanian Fireams collecters guild and an avid machine gun shooter.

This made no difference in 1996.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GTPete

I dont think the polution argument holds weight. You rarely see an old car (GT's etc) on the road and if you do its on its once a month drive. So while there not as efficient as late model cars there hardly used, so overall they would contribute very little polution.

Safety wise, driving an older GT means you have to be 3 steps ahead. They dont brake or steer as well so you allow for this. Your always antipating other drivers actions. Im more aware in an old GT then I am in a late model car because of this.

So if there are few of them on the road then few will be affected by this.
You say you need a higher driving skillset to drive these cars safely?

Both points add weight to the bad guys arguement.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Hmm. Britain has used the “speeding is bad for your emissions” argument and I think France had some sort of bounty on old cars (government pays you $500 to buy an old car from you that will then be crushed).

I shudder at the thought of the last one.

One of the arguments in the oldies favour would be that it takes more to dig up ore, smelter, refine, etc to produce a new car than it does to keep an old polluter running around.

There is more metal in the old ones than the new ones so recycling will make more safer cars.......

Pleas note; I do not support doing this, I am just showing the potential counterpoints the bad guys might use and they are a LOT better at lobbying than me.

[4Vman]

Ok, some food for thought here about the "impact" of banning Classics, and the potential asset devaluation and loss of employment and income derived from them:

I'll use GT Falcons as my reference, although they only account for a small % of total classics out there of all brands lets start "at the top".

From XR to XB (1967 to 1976) there were 12578 GT's build. Its estimated that approximately 60% still exist in some form or another, so model by model lets break that down and put a value to it based on conservative average values today:

XRGT, 697 build, x 60% = 418 live x $45K = $18,810,000.

XTGT, 1415 build, x 60% = 849 live x $40K = $33,960,000.

XWGT, 2287 build, x 60% = 1372 live x $55K = $75,460,000.

XWGTHO(1 &2) 662 built, x 60% = 397 live x 150K = $59,550,000

XYGT, 1557 build, x 60% = 934 live x $90K = $84,060,000.

XYGTHO, 300 built x 60% =180 live, x $600K = $108,000,000

XAGT, 2759 (inc RPO) build, x 60% = 1655 live x $60K = $99,300,000.

XBGT, 2901 build, x 60% = 1740 live x $40K = $69,600,000.

So i estimate conservatively the current market value for all GT's and HO's left to be worth approximately $548,740,000, or just over Half a Billion dollars....

Then look at the feeder industries associated JUST with GT's alone, quickly off the top of my head i can think of 5 dedicated GT restoration businesses in Melb alone, so lets say 20 nationally, without taking into account panel shops that do other work, they would turn over more than a mil a year each, so theres probably 100 staff and $20,000,000.

Then all the repro parts manufacturers etc.. $$value?? unknown.

Then theres insurance companies that exist solely for classic cars, Shannons and Vigil, 12578 x 60% = 7546 x $650 average insurance cost = 4,904,900 P/A in income. Then rego about the same $4,900,000.

So the "Gross" worth of GT Falcons as it sits today with just the direct impact associated costs accounted for is $578,545,000...

Remember this is FORD GT/HO ONLY.

ID say if you added just the value of "premium" Musclecar Chryslers and Holdens to that figure you'd probably double that figure, so thats over 1.1 BILLION DOLLARS.. and that's' without starting to account for all the lesser models like mustangs, comaro's, falcon 500's, fairmonts, Cobras, GS's, Fairlanes, valiants, SS's etc etc....

Think about that number...


The compensation claim and class action alone would frighten even the most robust green pollie off...

[flappist]

Compensation? What compensation? They are not being confiscated? Anyone can own one. They just would not be used for normal transport. Just like Model Ts or Steam Cars they will be museum pieces. Try and take a horsedrawn buggy or stagecoach to work everyday and see what happens.

How much compensation was given to QANTAS and ANSETT when Boeing 727s and DC9s were banned from all major airports? Clue: You can't divide by it.

And even if they were. Fair market value? Who sets that? Again there is a precedent in 1996 when the value of "collectable" items was reassessed. e.g. The USAS importer's compenstaion for stock owned was reduced from $1.2M to $35K.

$500,000,000 or even $5,000,000,000 to make Australia a safer cleaner place.
It is FREE MONEY remember. Pollution is a health issue, increase the medicare levy (been done before)? A transport issue, more safetycams or fuel excise or rego?

But anyway this whole thing is hypothetical, I just made it up. The point is, there is no such thing as 100% sure investment and even real estate goes pear shaped on the odd occasion.

Actually another sneaky problem. With all this increase in value how much capital gains tax could be assessed? Now THAT is scary......

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Actually another sneaky problem. With all this increase in value how much capital gains tax could be assessed? Now THAT is scary......

Not assesable.... YET. Its a tricky one though.. if you asses the capital gain then you've got to allow for expenses and costs, and capital losses..
Super funds that "own" HO's are a loophole that's sure to come under scrutiny too..

[robs_ls1]

Originally Posted by flappist

With all this increase in value how much capital gains tax could be assessed?

Cars are exempted from capital gains tax. Company/business vehicles may be subject to an assessable "balancing charge" if sold for more than their tax depreciated value, but this is something entirely different.

Ever wondered why a certain trucking magnate maintains such a large collection of rare (and appreciating) cars?

[Rev28K]

I thought part of the deal with having cars as an investment was that you “couldn’t derive enjoyment from it”?

i.e. You wouldn’t be allowed to drive it (other than for maintenance I guess warming up the engine, driveline and so forth), you couldn’t enter it in any events, etc.

Like if you buy a painting as and declare it as an investment. You aren’t meant to hang it in your office or at home, it’d be in a storage facility.

Anyone want to comment on this?

P.S. I know of guys that have got around this by using their cars as wedding cars. They earn a profit, the cars could depreciate (?), wear and tear items need to be replaced and it is in the business’ best interest to keep the cars schmick. That was a good scam.

[TCK-098]

Well each to there own if they are crazy enough to spent that on a car that was $4500 new then be it.

But id prefer a nice house at coolum with a decent set of wheels and my own jetty for that money.

[red_hotxr6]

Hey you never know, this guy might already own a "few" houses at coolum, yachts, etc..

[xygoonman]

Thats Awesome , Means My Mates Rusty Old Rep Xy Is Prob Now Worth $50000

[brother bob]

what price is a mid life crisis to those who veged out for most of their lifes and not enjoyed it . as a previous owner of a rt charger which converted to methanol would snap top loaders . its no use unless its enjoyed and if it is enjoyed it broke its the whole the whole muscle car thing .

[irsa76]

The value of Aussie muscle cars will continue to rise because more people want them, and less are surviving. Just 1 Phase 3 getting stolen and never being recovered could drive the values up because that is 1 less car available. And considering that some people are saying there would be probably less then 100 original Ph3s left, this is quiet possible. As for banning older cars, when was the last time you saw a GT, even as late as an XB, being driven daily? Most would probably be on Historic rego by now anyway. Like wise, when was the last time any one saw a Bugatti Royale being driven? Last I checked this was a multimillion dollar car 10 years ago. Naturally there are exceptions though. A Canberra car dealer owns a Mercedes 300SL Gullwing, he paid $350,000 for it more then 10 years ago. He does actually drive it every so often, rumour has it he also has a Ph3 in his shed but last time I asked him he commented that he wishes he did.

[XTGT Code Z]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Ps: Yeah, Bowden has a couple of Phase 3 race cars, Red one and a Wild violet one, at least that I know of.

the bowdens have moffat's 1973 ATCC winning car (the red number 9 car), and beechey's yellow shell sponsored car, that was originally john french's 1971 bathurst car with number 64E on it. beechey only raced it a couple of times.
the wild violet car (french's 1972 bathurst car) was sold late last year to a guy in WA that owns janson's 1979 bathurst A9X torana. he paid $920,000 for french's car.

the bowdens may have more, but these are the ones ive seen in person.

[42 PHASE3]

really cant be bothered answering those that are predicting a big price drop in phase3 values in the near future, they obviously have little understanding of the market for these cars, except to say wait till next week when the next gt nationals is on over in perth and see if a certain phase2 and a certain phase3 dont trade hands for record amounts, thats all i can say
if and when there is a correction in the gt market expect to see a modest 10% drop in hoey values across all 3 models with up to a 50% correction in standard gts depending on the model, we will see million dollar prices paid for hoeys before that happens


rod

[MO]

Tell you what in the next 5/10 yrs don't hold your breath...cos they are going to die big time.

With the new greenie laws that are coming you wont even be allowed to test run it in the shed.

[irsa76]

But like I said, when was the last time you saw a genuine millon dollar collector car move under it's own power? When cars are changing hands for this much money, you can pretty much assume they will be placed behind glass for the rest of their lives. It's like paying over a million for a painting. Would you hang it in the lounge room of your house or hang it behind glass in a gallery? At the end of the day that's what cars like this are now. Static pieces of art.