Russia v Ukraine

[hackney]

Originally Posted by burnz

where never going to know who actually fired it tho.

Really do not think it was intentional, just not very accurate.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by hackney

Really do not think it was intentional, just not very accurate.

You'd think that with all USA's tech and eyes in the skies they'd be able to pin-point from origin to destination and everything else in-between?

Biden has just said that it didn't come from Russia. This will get interesting. Hope it wasn't Ukraine doing something silly.

[Citroënbender]

Launch bearing 180° out?

It would be a desperate and stupid ploy by Ukraine to kick off like that.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

You'd think that with all USA's tech and eyes in the skies they'd be able to pin-point from origin to destination and everything else in-between?

Biden has just said that it didn't come from Russia. This will get interesting. Hope it wasn't Ukraine doing something silly.

It seems that it was a Ukrainian missile shot @ incoming Russian missiles, some how went off target.Certainly not deliberate.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by hackney

It seems that it was a Ukrainian missile shot @ incoming Russian missiles, some how went off target.Certainly not deliberate.

Well they just started killing people not involved in the conflict. Maybe this will be what brings them both to the negotiating table (under duress).

[T3rminator]

Given that the Ukraine officials have said what they have said, the story that these could have been stray missiles fired by their side can't stick.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by hackney

It seems that it was a Ukrainian missile shot @ incoming Russian missiles, some how went off target.Certainly not deliberate.

Maybe, but that would be opposed to the many hundreds of missiles fired by cowardly lying Russians, whose military is hopelessly corrupt, hopeless, and therefore prone to targeting civilians and their infrastructure to satisfy their media and the Russian propagandists.

[MITCHAY]

I find it hard to believe Russia would be so stupid to directly attack a NATO country given how they are going at the moment.

But as I have said before this is a potential consequence when ****ing around close to the western borders.

I think so far it has been handled well in terms of not rushing to judgement in terms of launching retallitory action.

[tichman]

The liar clownensky is resorting to desperate measures indeed as he realises his demise is a matter of when, not if. Firing missiles at a "friendly" whilst trying to incriminate the Russians has failed as miserably as his attempts to prove his patent lies of winning the war he has instigated against Russia.
Biden knows where it came from and also knows Russia will wrap this all up within a few months hence why he has his people behind the scenes pressuring clownensky to settle with Putin. It would appear clownenskys short person disease is preventing him from doing so whilst the Western MSM goes on reporting how Ukraine is "winning" the war.... and oddly enough, some supposedly sane, educated people are still buying those lies from the MSM.
This american guy seems well informed on the whole matter and sums up the situation quite well. His qualifications, inside US administration, experience and fact he has been a Senior Advisor to the Acting Secretary of Defense along with having served as a US army Colonel means his opinion unlike many others, has some merit and should be heard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJvLVc0gA6M

[tichman]

For Douglas Macgregors latest Interview with Professor Glenn Diesen (University of South-Eastern Norway - USN)
Get informed, not led down the garden path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8EVMSqbvzU

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tichman

Biden knows where it came from and also knows Russia will wrap this all up within a few months hence why he has his people behind the scenes pressuring clownensky to settle with Putin.

Possibly mission accomplished, to some degree. Even though Putin might remain, I think if the war stopped today, there will be a few administrations who will be pretty happy with the outcome.

Possible two new members into NATO. NATO's military budget is going to have a massive blow out. Blank cheques $$$ for arms manufacturers and suppliers for decades to come.

Nord Stream 2 is dead. The market that Russia has lost, someone else has gained....big time.

Europeans are the massive losers.

[zilo]

Suddenly all the rednecks have gone quiet since it's been revealed that an incompetent movie star in a khaki T-shirt can't tell which direction Russia is and aims his missiles at Poland.

Gullible clowns all over this thread.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by zilo

Suddenly all the rednecks have gone quiet since it's been revealed that an incompetent movie star in a khaki T-shirt can't tell which direction Russia is and aims his missiles at Poland.

Gullible clowns all over this thread.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by tichman

The liar clownensky is resorting to desperate measures indeed as he realises his demise is a matter of when, not if. Firing missiles at a "friendly" whilst trying to incriminate the Russians has failed as miserably as his attempts to prove his patent lies of winning the war he has instigated against Russia.
Biden knows where it came from and also knows Russia will wrap this all up within a few months hence why he has his people behind the scenes pressuring clownensky to settle with Putin. It would appear clownenskys short person disease is preventing him from doing so whilst the Western MSM goes on reporting how Ukraine is "winning" the war.... and oddly enough, some supposedly sane, educated people are still buying those lies from the MSM.
This american guy seems well informed on the whole matter and sums up the situation quite well. His qualifications, inside US administration, experience and fact he has been a Senior Advisor to the Acting Secretary of Defense along with having served as a US army Colonel means his opinion unlike many others, has some merit and should be heard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJvLVc0gA6M

Back when we thought Russia had the second best army in the world I too thought they'd win quickly and easy - but now that they have proven to be the second best army in Ukraine what makes you so confident they will win this within months? How are they going to reverse the current momentum during winter?

"Small person's disease"? Picking on Zelensky's height when he is actually taller than Putin? I don't know, the taller of the two (Zelensky) has the balls to make a public appearance in Kherson while they are still clearing out the stranded Russians, meanwhile the short **** in Russia cowers in his bunker afraid of his own people. Tough man indeed.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Back when we thought Russia had the second best army in the world I too thought they'd win quickly and easy - but now that they have proven to be the second best army in Ukraine what makes you so confident they will win this within months? How are they going to reverse the current momentum during winter?

"Small person's disease"? Picking on Zelensky's height when he is actually taller than Putin? I don't know, the taller of the two (Zelensky) has the balls to make a public appearance in Kherson while they are still clearing out the stranded Russians, meanwhile the short **** in Russia cowers in his bunker afraid of his own people. Tough man indeed.

It also shows you how paranoid Putin is, had to send Sergei to the G20 summit instead of going himself.

[Polyal]

So we have gone from "Russia is taking back a bit of land" to "Russia is taking out Ukraine's power supply and harming all their people both directly and indirectly...is there a fair bit of scope creep going on? Im confused as to where the end game actually is and at hat point to others start stepping in.

Imagine your neighbour is being attacked, would you just sit there and watch it happen?

[Fordman1]

Isn’t it lovely how Putin’s troll army is taking a little bit of ‘nothing’ and celebrating. The trolls should be celebrating about their military success, the tremendous supplies their Mobiks are getting, how they are the second best military in Ukraine (and possibly their complete loss of the Kherson region within a few months).

It’s awesome how the Russian Vranyo is ramping up (what a winning culture Russians have, lol).

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Imagine your neighbour is being attacked, would you just sit there and watch it happen?

Sadly, and this is a digression of sorts, I think many people would just film it on their phone - rather than act. Isn’t this sometimes referred to as “Bystander Effect”?

Lev 19:16 covers the morality of it for starters, if anyone is so inclined…

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So we have gone from "Russia is taking back a bit of land" to "Russia is taking out Ukraine's power supply and harming all their people both directly and indirectly...is there a fair bit of scope creep going on? Im confused as to where the end game actually is and at hat point to others start stepping in.

Imagine your neighbour is being attacked, would you just sit there and watch it happen?

War is a dirty business where civilians will be caught up in conflict, never known any nation that has gone to war that is not guilty of this action.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Back when we thought Russia had the second best army in the world I too thought they'd win quickly and easy - but now that they have proven to be the second best army in Ukraine what makes you so confident they will win this within months? How are they going to reverse the current momentum during winter?

"Small person's disease"? Picking on Zelensky's height when he is actually taller than Putin? I don't know, the taller of the two (Zelensky) has the balls to make a public appearance in Kherson while they are still clearing out the stranded Russians, meanwhile the short **** in Russia cowers in his bunker afraid of his own people. Tough man indeed.

Russia has air superiority, can attack with with almost impunity.
Ukrainian su20 are no match for the mig31 this was a given.

western media won't tell you anything, you have to use fleet satcoms to here the real story..

[tichman]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Back when we thought Russia had the second best army in the world I too thought they'd win quickly and easy - but now that they have proven to be the second best army in Ukraine what makes you so confident they will win this within months? How are they going to reverse the current momentum during winter?

"Small person's disease"? Picking on Zelensky's height when he is actually taller than Putin? I don't know, the taller of the two (Zelensky) has the balls to make a public appearance in Kherson while they are still clearing out the stranded Russians, meanwhile the short **** in Russia cowers in his bunker afraid of his own people. Tough man indeed.

Don't take it personally mate....

[tichman]

So Ukraine who is not a Hato member, has fired on a Hato member which according to Article 5 of the Hato agreement, means it is effectively an attack on all Hato members and all can retaliate yet for some reason, no further action will be taken..... So Hato lied about honouring the Minsk agreement (mainly no further Hato expansion eastward) and now is proven to be a liar in that any action taken against it will result in article 5 being enacted.... why is our MSM not asking the tough questions of those in charge or is this yet another proven account of bias and a case of do as we say, not as we do.
Zelotsky clearly had planned to fire a missile towards Poland the next time Russian Missiles started taking out strategic targets in Ukraine is a patently obvious attempt to try and implicate the Russians as being behind the missile attack on Poland as he came out and stated it was a Russian missile fired by the Russians. It was reported as such by our supposed unbiased, fair journalists and media, effectively a false flag operation that due to Zelotskys clear ignorance of how the airspace over Ukraine is constantly monitored by multiple agencies would show his ridiculous and childish claims to be just that, much like the rest of his lies and claims have been shown to be.
I truly wish our MSM would do the right thing and report all the facts, from both sides as media where once required to do but clearly no longer practice when controlling the narrative and then by default, most readers/watchers of news items dished up by our crap media.
Ukraine is doomed, Europeans are now experiencing Ukraine Fatigue, US senators are becoming disillusioned with pouring billions (now over $54 since Feb) into a unwinnable war supporting a puppet leader whilst the citizens of the US go without, face higher energy and food bills in a declining economy.
Now don't shoot the messenger here, if you truly believe you are a fair minded observer then don't rely solely on our MSM for your information before making a decision. Go and look at other sources of information on the Ukraine situation from people who are qualified to have an informed opinion on it as our journalists covering events in Ukraine are clearly just repeating the official western Nato (led by US/UK) take on events and add their spin. The facts soon come out which make our journos look stupid and inept at best, biased and controlled at worst.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by hackney

It also shows you how paranoid Putin is, had to send Sergei to the G20 summit instead of going himself.

Another ridiculous comment based on prejudice

[zilo]

Originally Posted by tichman

US senators are becoming disillusioned with pouring billions (now over $54 since Feb) into a unwinnable war supporting a puppet leader whilst the citizens of the US go without, face higher energy and food bills in a declining economy.

things may turn out a bit differently now that the house of reps in the US is held by Republicans....might see some spending reined in.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by burnz

Russia has air superiority, can attack with with almost impunity.
Ukrainian su20 are no match for the mig31 this was a given.

western media won't tell you anything, you have to use fleet satcoms to here the real story..

If Russia had air superiority they would be leveraging it. It is not SU20 or any other air asset that is keeping Russia's airforce mostly out of the war, it is the surface to air defences.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by tichman

So Ukraine who is not a Hato member, has fired on a Hato member which according to Article 5 of the Hato agreement, means it is effectively an attack on all Hato members and all can retaliate yet for some reason, no further action will be taken..... So Hato lied about honouring the Minsk agreement (mainly no further Hato expansion eastward) and now is proven to be a liar in that any action taken against it will result in article 5 being enacted.... why is our MSM not asking the tough questions of those in charge or is this yet another proven account of bias and a case of do as we say, not as we do.
Zelotsky clearly had planned to fire a missile towards Poland the next time Russian Missiles started taking out strategic targets in Ukraine is a patently obvious attempt to try and implicate the Russians as being behind the missile attack on Poland as he came out and stated it was a Russian missile fired by the Russians. It was reported as such by our supposed unbiased, fair journalists and media, effectively a false flag operation that due to Zelotskys clear ignorance of how the airspace over Ukraine is constantly monitored by multiple agencies would show his ridiculous and childish claims to be just that, much like the rest of his lies and claims have been shown to be.
I truly wish our MSM would do the right thing and report all the facts, from both sides as media where once required to do but clearly no longer practice when controlling the narrative and then by default, most readers/watchers of news items dished up by our crap media.
Ukraine is doomed, Europeans are now experiencing Ukraine Fatigue, US senators are becoming disillusioned with pouring billions (now over $54 since Feb) into a unwinnable war supporting a puppet leader whilst the citizens of the US go without, face higher energy and food bills in a declining economy.
Now don't shoot the messenger here, if you truly believe you are a fair minded observer then don't rely solely on our MSM for your information before making a decision. Go and look at other sources of information on the Ukraine situation from people who are qualified to have an informed opinion on it as our journalists covering events in Ukraine are clearly just repeating the official western Nato (led by US/UK) take on events and add their spin. The facts soon come out which make our journos look stupid and inept at best, biased and controlled at worst.

You are right - NATO should go in and take control of the whole of Ukraine right up to the Russian border. I like your idea.

Funny watching the melts on RT about how no members of the CSTO are honouring their requirement to come to Russia's defence due to Ukraine pushing Russia out of the regions of Ukraine that Russia are trying to claim.

Good on Twiggy Forrest committing over half a billion US for Ukraine to rebuild after this is all over. He really does do some great stuff for good causes.

This investment fund will focus on primary infrastructure such as energy and communications to build a digital green grid, so Ukraine can become a model for the world as a leading digital green economy.

President Zelenskyy said: “Andrew and I have agreed we will not replace communist era rubbish Russian infrastructure, instead we will leapfrog to the latest technology. We will take advantage of the fact that what the Russians have destroyed can readily be replaced with the latest, most modern green and digital infrastructure.

The Forrests’ philanthropic organisation Minderoo Foundation has already contributed millions of dollars to help the Ukrainian people, including funding the first humanitarian grain shipment out of Ukraine in August, and providing critical grain storage facilities for farmers whose crops would have otherwise perished.

https://www.aap.com.au/aapreleases/c...221116ae39444/

[PhilT2]

A Dutch court has found two Russians and one Ukrainian guilty of murdering the passengers on MH17
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

A Dutch court has found two Russians and one Ukrainian guilty of murdering the passengers on MH17
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625

Isn’t the “Ukrainian”, just a Ukrainian traitor (a Russian Stooge) from the “Donetsk People’s Republic” ?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

A Dutch court has found two Russians and one Ukrainian guilty of murdering the passengers on MH17
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625

i must of missed the memo, wasn't that plane lost for years?
and how did the dutch find evidence of said people?

every country has some form of russian made weapons.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by burnz

i must of missed the memo, wasn't that plane lost for years?
and how did the dutch find evidence of said people?

every country has some form of russian made weapons.

Wrong Malaysian plane. Bellingcat has a number of stories on the tragedy and how evidence was gathered. I think one of the people involved admitted to his role in the event. There were also intercepted calls on the attempted cover up.
https://www.bellingcat.com/page/1/?s=mh17