Covid 19 - - Page 438

tweeked · 02-08-2021, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Astra Zeneca supplied the United Kingdom with patent free vaccine at cost price, guess what?...Pfizer and Moderna tried to stop em in court, then they went to the EU and tried to convince them that a 3rd booster shot of Pfizer was needed!.$$$$$$$$$$

Cheers Mr W

It doesn't change the fact that the RNA vaccines are a commercial product that can be purchased.

On Pfizer and Moderna, do you have a source for this? I cannot find anything other than the EU taking AZ to court for not supplying within time.

Bossxr8 · 02-08-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

It’s going to be an interesting next 6-12 months, Health passports open up some interesting future possibilities.

Outside of age which nobody beats, obesity is a leading co-morbidity for Covid mortality on US statistics, not to mention all the other related issues that block up our health system considering Australia has a similar problem with obesity rates.

Maybe we should be using a “Health” passport to guide more than just vaccination status.

Excellent point. If I had a crack at an obese person for taking up a hospital bed, i'd be called out for fat shaming. But if a person chooses not to be vaxxed, it's ok to attack them?

It's a personal choice.

**FairmontGS** · 02-08-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Excellent point. If I had a crack at an obese person for taking up a hospital bed, i'd be called out for fat shaming. But if a person chooses not to be vaxxed, it's ok to attack them?

It's a personal choice.

Difference being I can't catch "fat" off an obese person, thus I can't pass it on to a loved one or die from it.

Work Horse · 02-08-2021, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIPO

Another interesting vid in regards to covid etc.... an alleged recording of Aus. Fed. Police commisioner by a whistleblower...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumen8

Do you think that is his voice though? Some say it isnt.

It could just be a vigilante trying to gather police together who are against what is going on.

Or it could be a honeypot to identify such people.

Whatever the case, this is the stuff that ASIO and the fed police are there to stop... they are there to protect the government, so cant see much coming from that... other than arrests carried out on them (not by them)... and those people getting put on terror lists.

(yes ive watched the vid in its entirety on ********)

I've got a bridge to sell you blokes!.....

yakcam · 02-08-2021, 06:02 PM

It will be interesting to see what health insurance providers are going to do. Will they insure a non vaccinated person? Probably, but I'm sure it will be at an insanely inflated price.

Trevor 57 · 02-08-2021, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Maybe these cultures should adapt to ours and not expect us to adapt to theirs?

how long did it take your ancestors to assimilate?

T3rminator · 02-08-2021, 06:19 PM

Is this what people have been banging on about?

AFP furious over disturbing video falsely claiming to be leaked audio of Commissioner Reece Kershaw
https://www.news.com.au/national/cri...44061c58a9dbe4

CyberWasp · 02-08-2021, 06:38 PM

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

T3rminator · 02-08-2021, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

I think there are provisions to protect public health. If you work in the sex industry, you'd probably have to prove you are STD free. We employ people in certain countries that have to prove they are drug free, and require them to do blood tests as proof, its legal.

As for jabs, its not new...no jab no play legislation.

https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/publi...sked-questions

Citroënbender · 02-08-2021, 07:08 PM

It’s possibly easier for private entities offering a discretionary product or service, to discriminate.

P.S. Imagine if a vaccine lottery included prizes of a complete, registrable Ph3 reproduction, and similar other Aussie classics?

Citroënbender · 02-08-2021, 07:35 PM

Doubled up, apologies.

CoupeKing · 02-08-2021, 08:08 PM

What about in months or years time you suffer from side effects, who are go go to blame?

slowsnake · 02-08-2021, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

It doesn't change the fact that the RNA vaccines are a commercial product that can be purchased.

On Pfizer and Moderna, do you have a source for this? I cannot find anything other than the EU taking AZ to court for not supplying within time.

You won't find it, some of these things are not for public view, the info come from my brother in the UK, he is well connected in UK and EU, I posted his email where he mentioned it in this thread, only after the moderator complained about this NSW v Victoria rivalry, the mod asked for real first hand effects of Covid-19 on the average person, have emailed him for more info, big pharma is a cut-throat business, but got a little reading matter for you, not much but interesting all the same!

Aditya Goenka, University of Birmingham
January 28, 2021 6.37pm GMT
Hopes that rolling out vaccines would control the the pandemic have been dealt a blow by an emerging dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca. The manufacturer has said that because of production problems in Belgium, it will not be able to supply as many vaccines as expected to the EU, but that its supply to UK will be unaffected.

In response, the EU has said it should be given a share of AstraZeneca doses manufactured in Britain, and politicians have suggested it could control exports of other vaccines – such as Pfizer’s – out of the bloc. This is despite the European Medicines Agency not yet having authorised the AstraZeneca vaccine, although approval is expected soon. But the EU still faces questions over its slow vaccine rollout.

It was clear from the outset that it would take a very long time to make enough vaccines to meet demand. In this context, the EU, UK, USA and Canada ordered enough doses to vaccinate their populations several times over. These orders were placed as a way of hedging bets, as it wasn’t clear which vaccines would be successful.

But on January 22 2021, AstraZeneca revealed that the order placed by the EU would come up short. In the first quarter of 2021, AstraZeneca said it would deliver 31 million vaccine doses to the bloc, rather than 80 million as stated previously. The EU president and health commissioner immediately pushed back against the decision.

On January 26, AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot gave an interview to the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, explaining the situation in more detail. There are two stages to vaccine production, he said: the production of the drug substance (the vaccine itself) and production of the final product (putting the vaccine in vials for use). These steps are carried out in different locations in different countries.

Mr Soriot said that there have been teething problems with the first step, as the yield of the vaccine-production process is often not high enough. This has been resolved in UK plants, as they started production earlier due to the UK signing its supply agreement with AstraZeneca three months before the EU. But these issues are yet to be resolved at the Belgian plant supplying Europe.

The EU doesn’t believe its citizens should be kept waiting for vaccines when UK supplies haven’t been cut. MikeDotta/Shutterstock
However, AstraZeneca feels that issues with the production of the drug substance will be resolved. From February, it estimates global production will increase to 100 million doses a month, with EU facilities accounting for 17% of this supply. But in the meantime, it is continuing to scale up production in the UK to 2 million doses a week, with Britain’s schedule not expected to be affected by problems elsewhere.

Despite meetings with AstraZeneca to understand the delayed deliveries, EU officials are not satisfied with this. Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides has said: “We reject the logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighbourhood butcher’s, but not in contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements.”

The EU has implied that the shortfall in vaccine availability is due to AstraZeneca selling vaccines to other countries, and that it should make good the shortfall by restricting supply to UK.

But what exactly was agreed?
The EU hasn’t disclosed exactly what its advanced purchase agreement with AstraZeneca is. The agreement secures a number of doses, and individual member states can order these once the vaccine’s use has been authorised. In AstraZeneca’s view, it agreed to supply vaccines according to its “best effort”, rather than committing to delivering a certain number of doses by a certain date. It expects to meet its future quarterly targets for the EU, should the European Medicines Agency authorise the vaccine.

Some, such as Germany’s health minister Jens Spahn, have said that in the meantime the EU should stop exporting other vaccines made on the continent, such as the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. For now the EU is only upping requirements as far as making manufacturers declare their exports. But export bans may follow.

It may seem strange that the EU is getting worried about a vaccine that it hasn’t yet approved, especially as there are concerns in Europe about its efficacy. But there are factors at play in the background. The US is not exporting vaccine doses manufactured domestically, as Donald Trump signed an executive order to restrict the use of US-produced vaccines to the US alone. The current push for vaccination under President Joe Biden suggests that the US will not be backtracking on exporting vaccine doses any time soon.

Pfizer has also reduced supply of its vaccine in Europe as it looks to upscale its production capacity. Meanwhile, vaccine development by the Louis Pasteur Institute and Merck in France has been abandoned, while the French medical giant Sanofi is also struggling with its programme. The EU is seeing multiple hedged bets failing.

Tensions have boiled over in the Netherlands, with protests against coronavirus restrictions taking place across the country. EPA-EFE
The EU is lagging behind the US and UK in vaccinating its population. Part of this is due to its slowness in ordering and approving vaccines, but to some extent it’s also down to potential over-reliance on the AstraZeneca vaccine. With civil unrest in Netherlands against lockdown, there’s growing pressure to increase the rate of vaccination in order to lift such restrictions.

There’s also an edge to this controversy because the UK’s delivery of AstraZeneca vaccines is unaffected. In the aftermath of Brexit, it’s easier for the EU to pick on the supply chain that’s working for UK rather than targeting, say, the one that’s working for the US. There are already export bans on medicines from the UK to EU and a trade war may be brewing.

But the question of who should get the vaccine, the UK or the EU, is really a controversy that should be avoided. Vaccine nationalism that one feared would happen is clearly here, and if left unchecked, is going to create new stress points that will hinder the coordinated pandemic response.

Cheers B

lumen8 · 02-08-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

I've got a bridge to sell you blokes!.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Is this what people have been banging on about?

AFP furious over disturbing video falsely claiming to be leaked audio of Commissioner Reece Kershaw
https://www.news.com.au/national/cri...44061c58a9dbe4

Like I said earlier, i expected those people to get into merde ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumen8

this is the stuff that ASIO and the fed police are there to stop... they are there to protect the government, so cant see much coming from that... other than arrests carried out on them (not by them)... and those people getting put on terror lists.

**DJR-351** · 02-08-2021, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

It really depends on the requirements of your industry I guess, all that you mention above (and more that you haven't) has to be declared when signing on to the ship as crew, as master I'm the one legally bound to request it and the on-signing crewmember is legally bound to provide it.......it's in the crewmembers (and crewmates) best interest to do so.

DoubleTrouble · 02-08-2021, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

You are not going to inspect anyone's confidential health file details, vaccination details are easily accessed by your medicare card which only tell you your date when you were immunised whether flu or covid shots.

XR Martin · 02-08-2021, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I got to play devils advocate.
Isn't your health file confidential?
I do not have the right to inspect any element of anyone's health file to see what conditions or medications they might be taking.
For example would I have the right to ask someone if they were HIV?
How is a vaccination not under the medical file and the laws that keep your medical information private.

Do you have children? Because they must be vaccinated for them to go to child care or school. And you must prove it. Privacy doesn't come into it.

CyberWasp · 02-08-2021, 10:45 PM

Yes and I see what you are saying.
Points taken.

hayseed · 02-08-2021, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

What about in months or years time you suffer from side effects, who are go go to blame?

You can Blame whoever you want, Not that It will do you any Good..!!

GOVCO has Indemnified the Drug Companies....

Citroënbender · 03-08-2021, 04:56 AM

Finally the ABC has entertained a voice that doesn’t mesh with its short-term narrative or the typical current line from various governments here.

Quote:

…Professor McBryde said Sydney could expect "a small number of cases, and by small, I mean a couple of hundred a day … for another couple of months".

Source

Even optimistic modelling of current NSW infection rates vs time suggests the lockdown for metropolitan Sydney will extend appreciably beyond August if <5 cases/day is a threshold value. It does look like Wollongong is close to deserving excision from the Sydney constraints.

HIPO · 03-08-2021, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumen8

Like I said earlier, i expected those people to get into merde ...

how do you know which is the real truth? we are all seeming to believe whatever suits us it seems!

Did someone say KFC!

XR Martin · 03-08-2021, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

What about in months or years time you suffer from side effects, who are go go to blame?

Name a vaccine that has had mass long term side effects? There's been millions of doses given out for covid and still nothing.

You should be more worried about the long term side effects of catching covid, which there is plenty of proof already.

tweeked · 03-08-2021, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

What about in months or years time you suffer from side effects, who are go go to blame?

What about in months or years time you still have all your friends and relatives alive, who are go go to thank?

Which one is more likely? Bet you an organic apple it is this one.

Yellow_Festiva · 03-08-2021, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

What about in months or years time you suffer from side effects, who are go go to blame?

I will blame myself.

Much the same as if I die from a heart attack I can't blame KFC or McDonald's.

Much the same as if I die from lung cancer I can't blame the cigarette companies.

Life is a gamble. You win some, you lose some.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

HIPO · 03-08-2021, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

What about in months or years time you still have all your friends and relatives alive, who are go go to thank?

Which one is more likely? Bet you an organic apple it is this one.

Yep all just a bet ATM.

Citroënbender · 03-08-2021, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIPO

…Did someone say KFC!

I have to admit, the perfect counterpoint to 4:30AM Covid doomscrolling is takeaway food rich in lipids. Even just reading about it, is sort of gratifying.

zilo · 03-08-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Difference being I can't catch "fat" off an obese person, thus I can't pass it on to a loved one or die from it.

With that logic how is a non vaxxed person a problem for a vaxxed up persons vaxxed up relatives and family?

**Polyal** · 03-08-2021, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

It really depends on the requirements of your industry I guess, all that you mention above (and more that you haven't) has to be declared when signing on to the ship as crew, as master I'm the one legally bound to request it and the on-signing crewmember is legally bound to provide it.......it's in the crewmembers (and crewmates) best interest to do so.

Im sure like other we get heat temped every day, if you are over you have 10mins or so to have another go, if still over then on your way.

tweeked · 03-08-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

With that logic how is a non vaxxed person a problem for a vaxxed up persons vaxxed up relatives and family?

They are not, except if all of the vaxxed people cannot return to normality because we need to get to 70%

I am all for personal choice. As long as the Government is strong enough to say if we only get to 60%, but the remainder do not want to get vaxxed, we open up.

No whinging then from the unvaxxed. No protections. The unvaxxed will all get their wish to run their own bodies defences against covid, It will be a fair fight!

I worry for those who have compromised immune systems, but it looks like vaccination will not stop much of the transmission, so it becomes a bit of a moot point. Not sure if the risk factors of vaccination for these people needs to be revisited by the medical community.

T3rminator · 03-08-2021, 11:09 AM

Agree that the unvaxxed can defend themselves when we open up. Maybe even remove CV treatment from medicare for those who can be vaxxed but are unvaxxed, why should I pay? It also won't be surprising if the disease gets listed as a pre existing condition in health insurance covers going forward.

There is a big but though...if we don't get a high enough rate of vaccination in the community (country, world), there will still be enough of the virus circulating for it to mutate, and we go round and round in circles chasing our tails.

The more contagious a virus is, the higher the vax rate needs to be. GAVI, the vaccine alliance, seems to think 60% vaccination against CV across the community will get us close to herd immunity. Thats based on the R0 of current strains. Vaccination is a race against time.

Note, it is possible to completely eliminate a virus through herd immunity, as we saw with smallpox

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/what-herd-immunity

Herd immunity explained in pictures...

https://www.gavi.org/sites/default/f...d-immunity.pdf